Hoping you Guys Can help
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Hoping you Guys Can help
Hello All
I am an alcoholic, engaged to a wonderful man, also an alcoholic (or so I thought!) We met when he was coming 'back' to AA after a year or so sober.
For the past 8 months he has gotten between 3 months, 1 month, 2 weeks etc sober. He has probably drank about 5 times in the past 8 months - sometimes alcoholically and sometimes just 2 beers (literally) In this time we've gone to a lot of AA together(meetnigs) he meets his sponsor once a week, he does service, we do our readings in the morning we discuss recovery etc. This is the BEST relationship I'ev ever been in on every level - all I've ever wanted ina person - clever, caring, kind, sensitive, creative, generous, funny, handsome etc etc. I feel our relationship is 100% honest and the only lies that have been told have always been in relation to those 'slips' - not condoning it but just saying he is generally very honest.
He confided in my last night (and I am grateful for the honesty) that those times I had smelt alcohol (!!) he had drank…in fact, last week he had 2 draft beers, then on Tuesday at his new job after work he had 2 beers and then Thursday he had 1 beer. He was so excited to be 'one of the guys' as he said - he is in his late twenties. He feels he has been ‘cured’ of alcoholism and none of the times did he wish to have more.
I feel that I know that alcoholism/addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful and that this is 99,9% certain just a way of lulling him into false sense of security and a binge/disaster will follow…
However! I am grateful for the honesty AND we have agreed that if : he misses work, an appointment with me/whoever, and ends up bingeing then he will be prepared to admit that he is an alcoholic.
For now he thinks his main addiction was/is dope and he’ll continue with the ma program (marijuana anonymous) and some aa to help the newcomers (!!)
I've said to him SUPER if it works and God has cured him, WONDERFUL! He also feels being engaged (!!!) has taken away his need to drink like an alcoholic (as opposed to being an alcoholic) and while I’m glad that he has set boundaries for himself (i.e. if x happens then there's no hiding he is an A) I ALSO know that unless he believes in his SOUL that he is an A then he is never going to recover. I am also glad that he is at least still going to 12 step (AA and MA) so he does not lose total touch.
I guess the reason for my post is to share and to also hear any ESH.
I was so astounded when I hear this!!! I said all the above and that I’d be the first person to cheer if it has been miraculously removed but then had to go straight to sleep at 8.30pm due to the shock!
It gave me a kind of a peace, as lately I heard J share at a meeting and I could just FEEl that it was not coming from his heart, he just does not seem to connect like many of us in AA in terms of the desire to drink having been removed and the gratitude we have for that…there just sounded like there was a hankering (obviously because in retrospect I see he did not truly believe he was A) and also just not that kind of spiritual awakening that comes with the process – clearly all along was the missing foundation that he was an A! anyway!!!
As I said to my other aa friend I have prayed for God to protect him and I hope his ‘experiment’ is as harmless as possible, and does not involve car accident/losing job! But I know he has to do it!
I don't know else to say. I am praying. I started al-anon last week (although do I still qualify as I no longer am living with an A lol!) and will continue that. it has helped me hugely in a short time. I am also ENORMOUSLY grateful that I am sober and have no desire to drink or be in denial.
Any ESH welcome.
Cathy31
x
I am an alcoholic, engaged to a wonderful man, also an alcoholic (or so I thought!) We met when he was coming 'back' to AA after a year or so sober.
For the past 8 months he has gotten between 3 months, 1 month, 2 weeks etc sober. He has probably drank about 5 times in the past 8 months - sometimes alcoholically and sometimes just 2 beers (literally) In this time we've gone to a lot of AA together(meetnigs) he meets his sponsor once a week, he does service, we do our readings in the morning we discuss recovery etc. This is the BEST relationship I'ev ever been in on every level - all I've ever wanted ina person - clever, caring, kind, sensitive, creative, generous, funny, handsome etc etc. I feel our relationship is 100% honest and the only lies that have been told have always been in relation to those 'slips' - not condoning it but just saying he is generally very honest.
He confided in my last night (and I am grateful for the honesty) that those times I had smelt alcohol (!!) he had drank…in fact, last week he had 2 draft beers, then on Tuesday at his new job after work he had 2 beers and then Thursday he had 1 beer. He was so excited to be 'one of the guys' as he said - he is in his late twenties. He feels he has been ‘cured’ of alcoholism and none of the times did he wish to have more.
I feel that I know that alcoholism/addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful and that this is 99,9% certain just a way of lulling him into false sense of security and a binge/disaster will follow…
However! I am grateful for the honesty AND we have agreed that if : he misses work, an appointment with me/whoever, and ends up bingeing then he will be prepared to admit that he is an alcoholic.
For now he thinks his main addiction was/is dope and he’ll continue with the ma program (marijuana anonymous) and some aa to help the newcomers (!!)
I've said to him SUPER if it works and God has cured him, WONDERFUL! He also feels being engaged (!!!) has taken away his need to drink like an alcoholic (as opposed to being an alcoholic) and while I’m glad that he has set boundaries for himself (i.e. if x happens then there's no hiding he is an A) I ALSO know that unless he believes in his SOUL that he is an A then he is never going to recover. I am also glad that he is at least still going to 12 step (AA and MA) so he does not lose total touch.
I guess the reason for my post is to share and to also hear any ESH.
I was so astounded when I hear this!!! I said all the above and that I’d be the first person to cheer if it has been miraculously removed but then had to go straight to sleep at 8.30pm due to the shock!
It gave me a kind of a peace, as lately I heard J share at a meeting and I could just FEEl that it was not coming from his heart, he just does not seem to connect like many of us in AA in terms of the desire to drink having been removed and the gratitude we have for that…there just sounded like there was a hankering (obviously because in retrospect I see he did not truly believe he was A) and also just not that kind of spiritual awakening that comes with the process – clearly all along was the missing foundation that he was an A! anyway!!!
As I said to my other aa friend I have prayed for God to protect him and I hope his ‘experiment’ is as harmless as possible, and does not involve car accident/losing job! But I know he has to do it!
I don't know else to say. I am praying. I started al-anon last week (although do I still qualify as I no longer am living with an A lol!) and will continue that. it has helped me hugely in a short time. I am also ENORMOUSLY grateful that I am sober and have no desire to drink or be in denial.
Any ESH welcome.
Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by Cathy31 
I started al-anon last week (although do I still qualify as I no longer am living with an A lol!) and will continue that. it has helped me hugely in a short time.
x
x
I'd say keep the focus on you, and I do wish you the very best of luck, but I do have one question.
If he is not an alcoholic, why can't he stay sober?
Meeting "non alcoholic" relapsers at AA meetings has just.....it's ...I just haven't seen a lot of success stories from "non alcoholics" that can't stay sober that I've met in 16.5 years of attending meetings..."non alcoholics" generally speaking don't go to AA meetings to quit drinking, especially "non alcoholics" that can't stop drinking.
I've "relapsed" twice, both exactly like you are describing, hmm...two beers...no problem...few days later, few beers....within 1 year the first time, and within 4 months the second time, "alcoholic drinking" was the norm, it was a slow process for me, the scary thing is by the time I realized I was addicted, I was addicted and couldn't stop. It was nothing short of a miracle I even got sober the first time, the second time, lightning struck twice, the third time defies explanation, even by miraculous standards...we just don't make it back over and over....
Now that he "doesn't have a problem" and he has started drinking, it's not going to end until the wheels fall off, if ever, that's just how that is. The good news is he has attended AA so he does know where to go when the wheels fall off, but how are you going to take care of yourself.
Relationships take out more alcoholics then any other thing I'd say, So, yeah, I'd say Alanon is probably a very good idea.
I'd even say it's as important to you as AA, it will save your life...literally, and make no mistake, this is life or death with a sober alcoholic (you)
Good luck.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Thank you Ago. Thanks for reminding me about the serious nature of the illness. Thank you for remindnig me that "we just don't make it back over and over...."
I am going to really throw myself into AA and Al-Anon if I don 't I could just get completely consumed with fear and what's the point of that!
Of course I think he is deluded and it's going to take the wheels coming off (again - he has suffered car accidents, etc etc, suspended from work due to drinking, etc ) I don't think there's a qustion (for me) whether he's miraculously cured or not. I'm trying to be supportive of his 'experiment' as I hope he'll see the light - without having to hurt himself - or our relationship too much.
What a warning - makes me think - "your disease is patient...it will wait and wait and wait...and it's primary purpose is to DESTROY you..."
Thank you VERY much for the response.
Cathy31
x
I am going to really throw myself into AA and Al-Anon if I don 't I could just get completely consumed with fear and what's the point of that!
Of course I think he is deluded and it's going to take the wheels coming off (again - he has suffered car accidents, etc etc, suspended from work due to drinking, etc ) I don't think there's a qustion (for me) whether he's miraculously cured or not. I'm trying to be supportive of his 'experiment' as I hope he'll see the light - without having to hurt himself - or our relationship too much.
What a warning - makes me think - "your disease is patient...it will wait and wait and wait...and it's primary purpose is to DESTROY you..."
Thank you VERY much for the response.
Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Cathy, I have nothing useful to add to Ago's post but wanted to step in and wish you luck.
Your ABF will either choose sobriety and do the hard work of keeping it, or he will not, but either way, Al-Anon will help YOU to maintain balance and self-interest in the face of an affliction that often tries very hard to rob us of both. As we say, you didn't cause this, you can't control it, you can't cure it -- but you CAN take care of yourself and keep doing the work you feel God put you here to do.
Your ABF will either choose sobriety and do the hard work of keeping it, or he will not, but either way, Al-Anon will help YOU to maintain balance and self-interest in the face of an affliction that often tries very hard to rob us of both. As we say, you didn't cause this, you can't control it, you can't cure it -- but you CAN take care of yourself and keep doing the work you feel God put you here to do.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Cathy, I wish you all the best!
I am struggling with a similar concept in that I want to be supportive my ABF's latest efforts to moderate his drinking even with my strong doubts that it will work. I want him to embrace the concept of abstinence, but he has to get their on his own.
Regardless of the outcome for yours or mine, we must continue our own recovery. There's no highway option. I've been thinking of it in terms of strength. The stronger I am the less damage to me and to our relationship in the end if he fails.
Take care of you!
Alice
I am struggling with a similar concept in that I want to be supportive my ABF's latest efforts to moderate his drinking even with my strong doubts that it will work. I want him to embrace the concept of abstinence, but he has to get their on his own.
Regardless of the outcome for yours or mine, we must continue our own recovery. There's no highway option. I've been thinking of it in terms of strength. The stronger I am the less damage to me and to our relationship in the end if he fails.
Take care of you!
Alice
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 70
Cathy,
I was like him, thinking I could control my drinking.
In the height of my disease, in January of 2007, after 5 years of marriage, my wife and I separated for 6 months. During that time I went out and got drunk every night. When I moved out the gloves were off, so to speak. I had noone trying to control me or tell me to stop or to nag or to question me... or to care about me. I did this for 6 months and every night I would try to control it by first not going out then by telling myself that I would go home by 9, then by promising to control it the next day.
After 6 months of this I wanted to get my wife and family back. I once again controlled my drinking temporarily, cleaned myself up on self-will (without any program), and won her back. I thought that wanting her and my kids back was enough to keep me sober and for atime I controlled my drinking. But after I moved back in it didn't take long (1-2 months) for me to slip back into my old ways. She was devistated, but having experienced this before and being a member of Al-Anon she knew what she needed to do. At one point she told me "go ahead and do what you want, don't hold back". And I did. 4 months after we were back together, she told me she wanted a divorce . I finally gave up and surrendered about 2 months after that and have been recovering ever since.
If he can conrtol his drinking and live a meaningful, honest, and productive life giving you all you need my hat is off to him. For me, when my ex wife detached and let me do what I wanted that was when I was able to finally realize that my disease could not be controlled and that is when I began recovery. Hopefully you and your husband to be do not ever have to go through what I did. Good luck and I wish you the best.
I was like him, thinking I could control my drinking.
In the height of my disease, in January of 2007, after 5 years of marriage, my wife and I separated for 6 months. During that time I went out and got drunk every night. When I moved out the gloves were off, so to speak. I had noone trying to control me or tell me to stop or to nag or to question me... or to care about me. I did this for 6 months and every night I would try to control it by first not going out then by telling myself that I would go home by 9, then by promising to control it the next day.
After 6 months of this I wanted to get my wife and family back. I once again controlled my drinking temporarily, cleaned myself up on self-will (without any program), and won her back. I thought that wanting her and my kids back was enough to keep me sober and for atime I controlled my drinking. But after I moved back in it didn't take long (1-2 months) for me to slip back into my old ways. She was devistated, but having experienced this before and being a member of Al-Anon she knew what she needed to do. At one point she told me "go ahead and do what you want, don't hold back". And I did. 4 months after we were back together, she told me she wanted a divorce . I finally gave up and surrendered about 2 months after that and have been recovering ever since.
If he can conrtol his drinking and live a meaningful, honest, and productive life giving you all you need my hat is off to him. For me, when my ex wife detached and let me do what I wanted that was when I was able to finally realize that my disease could not be controlled and that is when I began recovery. Hopefully you and your husband to be do not ever have to go through what I did. Good luck and I wish you the best.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 197
Wow anvilhead. 20/20 vision & ground up those rose coloured glasses under your heel!
I'd like to run MY story past you one day
Cathy, my heart is aching for you. Your description of your man & your relationship sounds so blissfully happy. You're a strong & brave woman - your own recovery proves that. Keep making healthy choices for yourself & keep your eyes wide open for that big river in Egypt. When the water's nice & warm we can be standing in it without realizing. I know - I've needed a snorkell sometimes & not even picked I was wet! Take care of yourself honey.
I'd like to run MY story past you one day
Cathy, my heart is aching for you. Your description of your man & your relationship sounds so blissfully happy. You're a strong & brave woman - your own recovery proves that. Keep making healthy choices for yourself & keep your eyes wide open for that big river in Egypt. When the water's nice & warm we can be standing in it without realizing. I know - I've needed a snorkell sometimes & not even picked I was wet! Take care of yourself honey.
..discover it.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Helenlee
Wow anvilhead. 20/20 vision & ground up those rose coloured glasses under your heel!
I'd like to run MY story past you one day
Cathy, my heart is aching for you. Your description of your man & your relationship sounds so blissfully happy. You're a strong & brave woman - your own recovery proves that. Keep making healthy choices for yourself & keep your eyes wide open for that big river in Egypt. When the water's nice & warm we can be standing in it without realizing. I know - I've needed a snorkell sometimes & not even picked I was wet! Take care of yourself honey.
I'd like to run MY story past you one day
Cathy, my heart is aching for you. Your description of your man & your relationship sounds so blissfully happy. You're a strong & brave woman - your own recovery proves that. Keep making healthy choices for yourself & keep your eyes wide open for that big river in Egypt. When the water's nice & warm we can be standing in it without realizing. I know - I've needed a snorkell sometimes & not even picked I was wet! Take care of yourself honey.
Agreed!!
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 2,060
Hi Cathy
What I'm not getting is how being engaged can possibly remove an alcoholic's desire to drink alcoholically? Is the subtext of that thinking a message to you that somehow, you, or your engagement, or because he is happy, has cured him?
That your man would attribute this turnaround to you, to the engagement or to any outside thing, is scary, because if that is the line of thought, then, fast forward 5 or 10 years. When your shared life gets comlpicated, you're married, working, raising a family. What happens if he is unhappy? Sad? Grieving a loss? Stressed out? Does that mean he has good reason to drink then?
This is textbook alcoholic thinking.
We drink because we are happy. we drink to celebrate. we drink because its snowing out. We drink because....fill in the blank.
It may be tempting in this lovely phase of engagement to call his relapses "experiments", and to hope that this "experiment" will work, or that, when the wheels fall off it will not hurt too much, but the fact is, as long as he is drinking and unable/unwilling to stay sober, you are in for a world of hurt. Codependency with an untreated alcoholic is draining, confusing, and difficult, not gto mention unhealthy.
As everyone has suggested, please REALLY take care of your sobriety. I am grateful that you have begun alanon. Its principles help us keep a sober mind and emotional state.
What I'm not getting is how being engaged can possibly remove an alcoholic's desire to drink alcoholically? Is the subtext of that thinking a message to you that somehow, you, or your engagement, or because he is happy, has cured him?
That your man would attribute this turnaround to you, to the engagement or to any outside thing, is scary, because if that is the line of thought, then, fast forward 5 or 10 years. When your shared life gets comlpicated, you're married, working, raising a family. What happens if he is unhappy? Sad? Grieving a loss? Stressed out? Does that mean he has good reason to drink then?
This is textbook alcoholic thinking.
We drink because we are happy. we drink to celebrate. we drink because its snowing out. We drink because....fill in the blank.
It may be tempting in this lovely phase of engagement to call his relapses "experiments", and to hope that this "experiment" will work, or that, when the wheels fall off it will not hurt too much, but the fact is, as long as he is drinking and unable/unwilling to stay sober, you are in for a world of hurt. Codependency with an untreated alcoholic is draining, confusing, and difficult, not gto mention unhealthy.
As everyone has suggested, please REALLY take care of your sobriety. I am grateful that you have begun alanon. Its principles help us keep a sober mind and emotional state.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Thank you everyone this really brought tears to my eyes! Your strength and hope and honesty mean SOO much! LOL! No I didn't buy the engagement you cured me thing! I think (as I keep subtley saying to him) this is just another layer of your denial/your disease...but let's wait and see. I am going to al anon tonight and I was at AA last night. THANK YOU THANK YOU for all the encouragement and straight talking!!! One thing that struck me, he is verry intelligent and I thought (at the risk of sounding cynical) he knew that to drink would mean the end of our relationship...however this 'scenario' has allowed him to drink as he is 'no longer alcoholic' - quite brililant really! 
For info, this wkend he drank on Sat afternoon - 3 beers with a friend. he then said he wanted to go and play pool (that's where usually the wheels fell off, big binge, etc) so I was in the area and I said ok i'll drop you off and pick you up in an hour (did not want him to drive drunk and it was no inconvenience to me and we still got to spend the evenign together as he'd be out til 7.30pm. Lo and behold there he was ready at 7.30pm has not had a drink since, did want to yesterday but 'thought the drink through' and said he'd wait til sat. i'm just illustrating all this to show the depths of the cunning baffling nature of alcoholism - of course 'it' is lulling him into false sense of security and when he least expects it it will come out and f*ck him up - drink driving, losing the control to stop etc. I guess for him it gives him more of an arsenal you know for his denial - but I too have 'controlled' my drinknig before only to have the aforementioned happen to me within about 1-2 weeks. I got him to read crossing the river of denial an AMAZING story in the 3rd edition.
Anyway you gusy! in a way I am feeling better cause that 'need' to HELP him not to drink is gone he will drink anyway. i am also hoping that God is working (I am praying for hmi) in His mysterious way to perhaps show him the light. he came with me to AA and his share was so honest. I think he is seeknig his truth and I hope to God this is the LAST time he has to try this whole let me drink like other people bs! I thank God today that I do not need to do that.
I will keep you all posted nad I want to thank you again from the bottom of my heart for your beautiful words, hope, support and love. You are all remarkable women - and man - thank you!!! You really make me want to work my program of recovery even harder! 
Cathy31
x
For info, this wkend he drank on Sat afternoon - 3 beers with a friend. he then said he wanted to go and play pool (that's where usually the wheels fell off, big binge, etc) so I was in the area and I said ok i'll drop you off and pick you up in an hour (did not want him to drive drunk and it was no inconvenience to me and we still got to spend the evenign together as he'd be out til 7.30pm. Lo and behold there he was ready at 7.30pm has not had a drink since, did want to yesterday but 'thought the drink through' and said he'd wait til sat. i'm just illustrating all this to show the depths of the cunning baffling nature of alcoholism - of course 'it' is lulling him into false sense of security and when he least expects it it will come out and f*ck him up - drink driving, losing the control to stop etc. I guess for him it gives him more of an arsenal you know for his denial - but I too have 'controlled' my drinknig before only to have the aforementioned happen to me within about 1-2 weeks. I got him to read crossing the river of denial an AMAZING story in the 3rd edition.Anyway you gusy! in a way I am feeling better cause that 'need' to HELP him not to drink is gone he will drink anyway. i am also hoping that God is working (I am praying for hmi) in His mysterious way to perhaps show him the light. he came with me to AA and his share was so honest. I think he is seeknig his truth and I hope to God this is the LAST time he has to try this whole let me drink like other people bs! I thank God today that I do not need to do that.
I will keep you all posted nad I want to thank you again from the bottom of my heart for your beautiful words, hope, support and love. You are all remarkable women - and man
- thank you!!! You really make me want to work my program of recovery even harder! Cathy31
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