self worth vs selfishness- where to draw the line?
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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self worth vs selfishness- where to draw the line?
This is a question I am really struggling with right now.
With my husband going through detox/rehab, whatever it is he is doing, and the new dilemna I have (i.e if he does work his program, do I go back to live with him or do we divorce?), I keep pondering what is the reason behind my huge reluctance to even consider reconciliation.
I find that this reluctance comes from fear: fear that I am not capable of starting anew, forgetting the past and the hurt, giving AH the chance to show me that things can be different when he is not active. Is it selfish of me to deny the children the chance of living in a "normal" stable family without even trying?
Or is it a legitimate attempt to put my self worth first for a change?
AH called me and said that we would have a joint session with his psychiatrist and now, I am not even happy about this because I feel that I have nothing positive to contribute to this: apart from explaining why I am not in a position right now to trust AH, and to explain that I need to work on my own recovery without facing the bull in the eyes straight now, what is there to say? I feel that I need to do this at my own pace, but is this selfish?
What are your thoughts on this selfish/selfworth matter?
With my husband going through detox/rehab, whatever it is he is doing, and the new dilemna I have (i.e if he does work his program, do I go back to live with him or do we divorce?), I keep pondering what is the reason behind my huge reluctance to even consider reconciliation.
I find that this reluctance comes from fear: fear that I am not capable of starting anew, forgetting the past and the hurt, giving AH the chance to show me that things can be different when he is not active. Is it selfish of me to deny the children the chance of living in a "normal" stable family without even trying?
Or is it a legitimate attempt to put my self worth first for a change?
AH called me and said that we would have a joint session with his psychiatrist and now, I am not even happy about this because I feel that I have nothing positive to contribute to this: apart from explaining why I am not in a position right now to trust AH, and to explain that I need to work on my own recovery without facing the bull in the eyes straight now, what is there to say? I feel that I need to do this at my own pace, but is this selfish?
What are your thoughts on this selfish/selfworth matter?
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
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I think that being reluctant is normal. I was reluctant about counseling with my AH (after the initial try) because I knew he would lie in those sessions. And he did. So, how can I move forward when he's still lying?
Trust takes a long time to regain, I don't think that's abnormal or selfish at all.
The entire process takes time. His recovery, and yours.
Trust takes a long time to regain, I don't think that's abnormal or selfish at all.
The entire process takes time. His recovery, and yours.
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Thanks for that! What did you do when you AH lied during these sessions? Did you tell your side of the story or did you let it go?
That is also part of why I am reluctant to go: I can see that on one hand, if the session has to have a meaning, things have to be put clearly on the table with all honesty. But I can't see my husband accepting such a thing. So what's the point? If I talk about my fears and the sort of behavior that I cannot live with (such as threats of so called punishments if I do something that he doesn't like), it will be perceived as me being negative and rehashing the past.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard stone. Feeling that not only I am not free to talk about what it is that scares me in this relationship, but also, that my talking about this is inapropriate and yet, another form of control/codependent behavior on my part. And I don't want either of these
That is also part of why I am reluctant to go: I can see that on one hand, if the session has to have a meaning, things have to be put clearly on the table with all honesty. But I can't see my husband accepting such a thing. So what's the point? If I talk about my fears and the sort of behavior that I cannot live with (such as threats of so called punishments if I do something that he doesn't like), it will be perceived as me being negative and rehashing the past.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard stone. Feeling that not only I am not free to talk about what it is that scares me in this relationship, but also, that my talking about this is inapropriate and yet, another form of control/codependent behavior on my part. And I don't want either of these
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AH called me and said that we would have a joint session with his psychiatrist
Maybe this is also why, Lucy.
Because it's sounds as though he's still laying down the law and telling you what's going to happen. Controlling you, as usual. I can see why you're not comfortable with this.
I think if you don't feel 100% comfortable going to counseling, you shouldn't -- AND IF YOU DO, IT SHOULD BE A THERAPIST YOU BOTH AGREE ON, NOT "HIS". His therapist has his best interests at heart, not yours. Counseling peels you open and exposes some very vulnerable emotional tissue. If you don't think AH will treat you with dignity, respect, and honesty in such a setting, then you're opening yourself up to even more hurt. Your heart knows this.
And your heart knows if it's ready to try to make things work. Sounds like it isn't. Listen to YOUR inner voice, not to someone who is trying to manipulate you into what's favorable to them.
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yes you are right GiveLove. AH's words were:"the psy has agreed for you to come and have a session with me". I don't think it is the psy who has agreed. I think that in these types of programs, if the patient indicates that he will go back to live with his family (which AH had been telling his psy last week before I called the hospital to say this wasn't so), they insist on having several therapy sessions with the close family members and as far as I know, my AH had refused.
I think it is this game of cat and mouse that I am sick of. And also, the feeling that I cannot be honest and open about MY feelings without being told that they are not appropriate. So I guess, my gut feeling is right and I still have a long way to go before I can clearly discern the part of manipulation and honesty (if there is any) in my AH's behavior.
I feel that there are still dodgy things going on. And if I try to clarify these things, then I am told I am controlling and perhaps I am. I guess the best way to handle this is to rely on my HP for the time being.
I think it is this game of cat and mouse that I am sick of. And also, the feeling that I cannot be honest and open about MY feelings without being told that they are not appropriate. So I guess, my gut feeling is right and I still have a long way to go before I can clearly discern the part of manipulation and honesty (if there is any) in my AH's behavior.
I feel that there are still dodgy things going on. And if I try to clarify these things, then I am told I am controlling and perhaps I am. I guess the best way to handle this is to rely on my HP for the time being.
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Waoooh! This was an amazing post anvilhead! It just clarifies to brilliantly what I was struggling to put in words!
I'm gonna write it down and keep it for me to read whenever I feel I am falling into this subtle manipulation game again....
Thank you so so much!!
I'm gonna write it down and keep it for me to read whenever I feel I am falling into this subtle manipulation game again....
Thank you so so much!!
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Originally Posted by Lucy06 
Thanks for that! What did you do when you AH lied during these sessions? Did you tell your side of the story or did you let it go?
That is also part of why I am reluctant to go: I can see that on one hand, if the session has to have a meaning, things have to be put clearly on the table with all honesty. But I can't see my husband accepting such a thing. So what's the point? If I talk about my fears and the sort of behavior that I cannot live with (such as threats of so called punishments if I do something that he doesn't like), it will be perceived as me being negative and rehashing the past.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard stone. Feeling that not only I am not free to talk about what it is that scares me in this relationship, but also, that my talking about this is inapropriate and yet, another form of control/codependent behavior on my part. And I don't want either of these
That is also part of why I am reluctant to go: I can see that on one hand, if the session has to have a meaning, things have to be put clearly on the table with all honesty. But I can't see my husband accepting such a thing. So what's the point? If I talk about my fears and the sort of behavior that I cannot live with (such as threats of so called punishments if I do something that he doesn't like), it will be perceived as me being negative and rehashing the past.
I feel stuck between a rock and a hard stone. Feeling that not only I am not free to talk about what it is that scares me in this relationship, but also, that my talking about this is inapropriate and yet, another form of control/codependent behavior on my part. And I don't want either of these
I didn't feel I could say that he was lying, that most of what he brought up was a lie. And the counselor went on about how I needed to listen to his issues and admit my part. Well, sure..if we're dealing with truth. But, we weren't.
It was just too much for me, and the final straw. I was done.
I sat there and watched him change his story, to fit his agenda. Make himself the victim, take no responsibility. And then I knew, that there was no recovery on his part, and there wouldn't be. He may not be drinking, but he's still very sick.
So, I took responsibility for me and my daughter...and left.
It feels good
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Location: Boston
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Children suffer most from being around parents who are arguing and from living in the dynamic of life with an alcoholic parent.
If you can create a peaceful, predictable, consistent and warm home life for them that is most important. Is that possible with your AH just out of rehab...? It sounds like it would be very very stressful for you. I'm not real good at making a nice home life when I'm stressed!
Time, time, time- you don't have to defend the way you are feeling you can simply say-- "I need a lot more time to work on myself and I don't want to bring myself or the kids into a situation where I feel unstable and not at my best. I need time."
If he asks you how much? pick a good long stretch - I mean for me, the recovery engine takes time to get purring - once its going YOU WILL know it and feel it and feel stronger and safer to think about a big decision like living with him again---if he is invested in his recovery you will see major changes in him - over time - and you will be making this decison based on some ACTUAL fresh information.
Right now, how do you know what to expect with him coming out of rehab? Why should you bet your sanity & the kids serenity on a wish or hope -- give yourself a REALISTIC amount of time to get some solid recovery under YOUR belt....(6 months would be minimum for me) and then re-visit the state of the relationship and its possibilities.
Take all the time you need.
Peace-
B.
If you can create a peaceful, predictable, consistent and warm home life for them that is most important. Is that possible with your AH just out of rehab...? It sounds like it would be very very stressful for you. I'm not real good at making a nice home life when I'm stressed!
Time, time, time- you don't have to defend the way you are feeling you can simply say-- "I need a lot more time to work on myself and I don't want to bring myself or the kids into a situation where I feel unstable and not at my best. I need time."
If he asks you how much? pick a good long stretch - I mean for me, the recovery engine takes time to get purring - once its going YOU WILL know it and feel it and feel stronger and safer to think about a big decision like living with him again---if he is invested in his recovery you will see major changes in him - over time - and you will be making this decison based on some ACTUAL fresh information.
Right now, how do you know what to expect with him coming out of rehab? Why should you bet your sanity & the kids serenity on a wish or hope -- give yourself a REALISTIC amount of time to get some solid recovery under YOUR belt....(6 months would be minimum for me) and then re-visit the state of the relationship and its possibilities.
Take all the time you need.
Peace-
B.
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My therapist always told me that I needed to tune in to the "small quiet voice" inside, and listen to it. Once, I asked her to tell me how I could possibly know which voice was the "small quiet one," when I had ALL these voices in my head telling me what to do. (I'm not talking about schizophrenia, I'm talking about what psychotherapists sometimes refer to as "the committee.") She told me to pay attention to the messages. She told me that the small quiet voice ALWAYS had MY best interests at heart. The voices of the "committee" would sound more like scolding. Telling me what to do or else something bad would happen. The small quiet voice never talks about "or else" or "what if." (Like telling you if you do something, you will appear selfish.) It only guides, gently. Since that day, I haven't had much problem listening for it. And I have gotten very good at adjourning the committee meetings.
L
L
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Hey there Lucy,
I struggle with the whole self-care/selfish thing, less now, but it still gets me applied to my own life. Funny thing is I don't seem so confused about other people's (I can ALWAYS see what they should be doing. oops).
seems perfectly reasonable that you wouldn't want to go back to the situation, doesn't mean that has to be permanent, if you and he BOTH don't want it to be, but I certainly don't see it as selfish to resist diving straight back into that turmiol, how is that selfish?
Your H will either see (perhaps long in the future) that you had to do this for your sanity and the health of your children, and thank you for your strength in the face of pressure. Or he won't: but that will be his problem, not yours.
He has to look after his sanity, and has the help of an intensive inpatient facility, his doctors, psychiatrists, AA, & countless other resources etc. You have to look after your health, and mobilise whatever resources you can find to keep you afloat too.
Your health and happiness and sanity are not less important that his.
I was brought up in a home full of rage and arguing and tension and seething resentment and lies and disrespect. My parents finally (thankfully!) divorced when I was 20, it wasn't the divorce that did for us kids, it was them living together, neither wanting to be there but hanging in "for the kids sake" which was a cover for their own inability to take responsibility for their lives and move on. Children, imo, don't suffer permanently from divorce, they suffer from living with bad relationships and an atmosphere of tension (that often leads to divorce, hence the link).
Providing a safe, calm, loving home environment: a safe haven, for children is, IMO, the most important thing. It may be that you can best do that apart from your spouse.
I struggle with the whole self-care/selfish thing, less now, but it still gets me applied to my own life. Funny thing is I don't seem so confused about other people's (I can ALWAYS see what they should be doing. oops).
seems perfectly reasonable that you wouldn't want to go back to the situation, doesn't mean that has to be permanent, if you and he BOTH don't want it to be, but I certainly don't see it as selfish to resist diving straight back into that turmiol, how is that selfish?
Your H will either see (perhaps long in the future) that you had to do this for your sanity and the health of your children, and thank you for your strength in the face of pressure. Or he won't: but that will be his problem, not yours.
He has to look after his sanity, and has the help of an intensive inpatient facility, his doctors, psychiatrists, AA, & countless other resources etc. You have to look after your health, and mobilise whatever resources you can find to keep you afloat too.
Your health and happiness and sanity are not less important that his.
I was brought up in a home full of rage and arguing and tension and seething resentment and lies and disrespect. My parents finally (thankfully!) divorced when I was 20, it wasn't the divorce that did for us kids, it was them living together, neither wanting to be there but hanging in "for the kids sake" which was a cover for their own inability to take responsibility for their lives and move on. Children, imo, don't suffer permanently from divorce, they suffer from living with bad relationships and an atmosphere of tension (that often leads to divorce, hence the link).
Providing a safe, calm, loving home environment: a safe haven, for children is, IMO, the most important thing. It may be that you can best do that apart from your spouse.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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My favorite saying for the past couple of months has become
"Because I don't want too...."
If there's something he wants me to do and I don't want to do it I just say because I don't want too. I don't think I'm being mean in my eyes, but come on if I don't want to do the dishes RIGHT NOW I'm not going too. I don't think the world will end.
My decisions don't end lives, hurt my kids or cause the world to come to a stand still. AH just gets mad when I say it because I'm not doing something when he thinks I should be doing it.
I think this is self worth. Yep he gets mad, pi$$ed off, stomps around and will go ahead and do it generally for some reason. I just don't care, I just don't want to do it because he says so.
"Because I don't want too...."
If there's something he wants me to do and I don't want to do it I just say because I don't want too. I don't think I'm being mean in my eyes, but come on if I don't want to do the dishes RIGHT NOW I'm not going too. I don't think the world will end.
My decisions don't end lives, hurt my kids or cause the world to come to a stand still. AH just gets mad when I say it because I'm not doing something when he thinks I should be doing it.
I think this is self worth. Yep he gets mad, pi$$ed off, stomps around and will go ahead and do it generally for some reason. I just don't care, I just don't want to do it because he says so.
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