Help...advice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Jacksonville fl
Posts: 3
Help...advice
OK giving a brief summary of my life growing up:
Mom & dad both alcoholics, they divorced when I was 4.
Dad married another woman who became a mother to me, when my mother was never there, and i lived with dad up until i graduated highschool.
My stepmom wanted to divorce my father months after she married him because he hid his drinking until they were married..but she stayed around even when she didnt have to, because she wanted me to be safe.
Grandma= dads mom... is the enabler. When my father and me would get in fights because of his drinking, my grandma would say my father was not a drunk and he is a good father and i need to respect him and would tell me Im the one who needed help.
anyways dad and stepmom are divorced and my father HATES my biological mother and my Ex stepmom. He has so much anger for them
So anytime i go to his house he brings up how much he hates them and how much i should hate him as well. That i should be on his side.
I am very close with my biological mother now, as she does not drink anymore, and i am still very close to my ex stepmom as she was a mother to me and will always be, so to here him talk negative about them pisses me off
-
YESTERDAY: went to dads to enjoy a nice day with him. I am now 24 and married and dad and i have finally come to terms on how to handle each other and just be nice, but of course he was drunk at 1:00pm and the first things out of his mouth were about how he has treated me so good and has been the best father to me growing up and that i dont need to love my mom or stepmom more than him.
and i tried to explain to him that i can love all of my parents, that i dont need to chose sides.
and i know you dont get anywhere talking to a drunk but i finally had enough and let out my anger-
i told him he has never been a father to me, he has been a drunk my whole life and then he turned on his pity party, and then yelled and screamed about how he has always been there for me... ( never once growing up was he ever there emotionally there for me or ever told me how proud he was of me)
he drinks from 10am- 2am every single day.. used to be hard liquor, and wiskey but now drinks beer and wine.
I left very upset because i shouldnt have to justify that i love my mom and stepmom and still have them in my life, and im tired of him thinking he was such a wonderful father to me, but yet i have so many issues because of him.
(My father told me at age 16, on a drunking rage, that he wanted to kill himself because of me, and literally went outside and shot a gun in the air to scare me. the next day my grandma and grandpa told me i led my father to say that to me, and i should be ashamed.)
so anyways he calls my grandma and tells "his side" and of course my grandma enables him and tells me how negative i am.
What do i do. I really want to end all ties with him. but im scared what if something happends and he passes away and i wasnt there for him or i wasnt apart of his life.
My husband has the same issues, his father was an alcholic too, but my husband doesnt think he has issues because of it, and thinks that its an excuse to think so ( i think he just doesnt want to beleive it)
but we have a good marriage and thank god our issues of being ACOA hasnt had any bad affects on our marriage.
but i have bad self esteem problems and other ACOA issues.
how do i let my grandma know that enabling him is wrong and that he wasnt a good father and i cant do this anymore.
She thinks im selfish and i need to let it go.
SORRY THIS IS LONG, I REALLY NEED TO GET IT OUT.
Mom & dad both alcoholics, they divorced when I was 4.
Dad married another woman who became a mother to me, when my mother was never there, and i lived with dad up until i graduated highschool.
My stepmom wanted to divorce my father months after she married him because he hid his drinking until they were married..but she stayed around even when she didnt have to, because she wanted me to be safe.
Grandma= dads mom... is the enabler. When my father and me would get in fights because of his drinking, my grandma would say my father was not a drunk and he is a good father and i need to respect him and would tell me Im the one who needed help.
anyways dad and stepmom are divorced and my father HATES my biological mother and my Ex stepmom. He has so much anger for them
So anytime i go to his house he brings up how much he hates them and how much i should hate him as well. That i should be on his side.
I am very close with my biological mother now, as she does not drink anymore, and i am still very close to my ex stepmom as she was a mother to me and will always be, so to here him talk negative about them pisses me off
-
YESTERDAY: went to dads to enjoy a nice day with him. I am now 24 and married and dad and i have finally come to terms on how to handle each other and just be nice, but of course he was drunk at 1:00pm and the first things out of his mouth were about how he has treated me so good and has been the best father to me growing up and that i dont need to love my mom or stepmom more than him.
and i tried to explain to him that i can love all of my parents, that i dont need to chose sides.
and i know you dont get anywhere talking to a drunk but i finally had enough and let out my anger-
i told him he has never been a father to me, he has been a drunk my whole life and then he turned on his pity party, and then yelled and screamed about how he has always been there for me... ( never once growing up was he ever there emotionally there for me or ever told me how proud he was of me)
he drinks from 10am- 2am every single day.. used to be hard liquor, and wiskey but now drinks beer and wine.
I left very upset because i shouldnt have to justify that i love my mom and stepmom and still have them in my life, and im tired of him thinking he was such a wonderful father to me, but yet i have so many issues because of him.
(My father told me at age 16, on a drunking rage, that he wanted to kill himself because of me, and literally went outside and shot a gun in the air to scare me. the next day my grandma and grandpa told me i led my father to say that to me, and i should be ashamed.)
so anyways he calls my grandma and tells "his side" and of course my grandma enables him and tells me how negative i am.
What do i do. I really want to end all ties with him. but im scared what if something happends and he passes away and i wasnt there for him or i wasnt apart of his life.
My husband has the same issues, his father was an alcholic too, but my husband doesnt think he has issues because of it, and thinks that its an excuse to think so ( i think he just doesnt want to beleive it)
but we have a good marriage and thank god our issues of being ACOA hasnt had any bad affects on our marriage.
but i have bad self esteem problems and other ACOA issues.
how do i let my grandma know that enabling him is wrong and that he wasnt a good father and i cant do this anymore.
She thinks im selfish and i need to let it go.
SORRY THIS IS LONG, I REALLY NEED TO GET IT OUT.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Welcome to SR. I haven't grown up in a situation like yours but I have had experience dealing with the insanity of this disease. One thing that I learned in Al-Anon that has helped me is that I can't control what _anyone_ thinks, be they friends or extended family members. My powerlessness is not exclusive to the alcoholic or addict, but I can find ways to change how I think and approach these difficult issues. There is hope.
I hope you continue to read and post here, and on the other forums in this Friends & Family section, because there are many great people here who will share their experience with you.
It's nice to meet you.
I hope you continue to read and post here, and on the other forums in this Friends & Family section, because there are many great people here who will share their experience with you.
It's nice to meet you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Your grandmother is going to believe what she wants to believe, and I doubt that anything you say to her is going to convince her otherwise.
There are times I have had to go with no contact with family members when they are in toxic mode.
It really does wear and tear on our self-esteem when exposed to such negativity. :ghug :ghug
There are times I have had to go with no contact with family members when they are in toxic mode.
It really does wear and tear on our self-esteem when exposed to such negativity. :ghug :ghug
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
You can't control other people. You can't control your grandma.
You can try talk to her and have heart-to-hearts, but ultimately it's in your grandmother's authority to modify her thinking and behavior. You can make suggestions towards healthier thinking, but in the end it is up to her to take the next step.
As an adult, you need to balance just how much of YOUR time it's worth to spend explaining to her all the reasons WHY her well-engrained behavior for the past few decades is actually wrong. Frankly, it sounds like you've learned your ACoA lessons well (as far as your parental family goes) because rather than tackle this issue directly your father, you're passive-aggressively trying to work through your grandmother.
I have been here, in the exact same dynamic. I have yelled and raged at the woman in my dad's life because I thought if she wanted him to change, she could make it happen. After all, her enabling made his drinking happen... kind of, right? And her negativity certainly had its effect on me.
lms47, the thing is, it's NOT control. No one is controlling anyone. It's ALL manipulation. It's all designed to convince you that you do not have control over the situation; that someone else does, and you are powerless to do anything but what they want.
What do i do. I really want to end all ties with him. but im scared what if something happends and he passes away and i wasnt there for him or i wasnt apart of his life.
What do you think you're going to fix by sticking around, internalizing your father's self-hatred (not to mention his inability to take responsibility for HIS OWN CHOICES). This is how ACoAs turn into As. We learn directly from them that nothing is their fault. Even your father's "suicide" wasn't his fault, it was yours right? You - a child! It must have been terrifying to be a child with so much "control" over other people. The problem with this reasoning is that you NEVER had control over your father. Only your father controls him - not you, not his mother, not anyone else. He may deny it until he's blue in the face, but the only one responsible for his choices is HIM.
Say you stick around, be the good daughter, and be there when your father dies. Say you spend those years fighting his self-blame and fighting the ongoing battle to "fix" him and his problems. Whose fault is it going to be when YEARS of your life are wasted on a problem you never had the power to fix? (when you feel old, wasted, and used) I have hunkering feeling it'll be your dad's fault, right? Because you were simply being a good daughter. Just like your grandma. It's not like you were CHOOSING this life; you were simply stuck with it. It won't be your fault; that's what you'll want to believe.
I realize this reply is crude and you may not be ready to hear it, but I say it because I have been in your shoes. I have been the good daughter struggling to fix her father's life. I have struggled with fixing his depression, his marriage, his unemployment, his totalled vehicles from driving home drunk, etc. etc. etc. With a little bit a therapy and support from people outside this destructive dynamic, I have learned to stop fixing people who don't want to change. I have stopped taking responsibility for other people's behavior. But it took a long time and new life skills.
You don't have to feel this way for the rest of your life. You don't have to spend your life waiting for "it to finally be over" when your dad dies. But without help and even a bit a therapy, seeing this life for yourself is almost impossible because of how much influence alcoholism has had on you. That part's not your fault, but what you choose do with the rest of your life is. Keep posting here when you feel like it, and know absolutely that you are NOT alone in what you're going through.
You can try talk to her and have heart-to-hearts, but ultimately it's in your grandmother's authority to modify her thinking and behavior. You can make suggestions towards healthier thinking, but in the end it is up to her to take the next step.
As an adult, you need to balance just how much of YOUR time it's worth to spend explaining to her all the reasons WHY her well-engrained behavior for the past few decades is actually wrong. Frankly, it sounds like you've learned your ACoA lessons well (as far as your parental family goes) because rather than tackle this issue directly your father, you're passive-aggressively trying to work through your grandmother.
I have been here, in the exact same dynamic. I have yelled and raged at the woman in my dad's life because I thought if she wanted him to change, she could make it happen. After all, her enabling made his drinking happen... kind of, right? And her negativity certainly had its effect on me.
lms47, the thing is, it's NOT control. No one is controlling anyone. It's ALL manipulation. It's all designed to convince you that you do not have control over the situation; that someone else does, and you are powerless to do anything but what they want.
What do i do. I really want to end all ties with him. but im scared what if something happends and he passes away and i wasnt there for him or i wasnt apart of his life.
What do you think you're going to fix by sticking around, internalizing your father's self-hatred (not to mention his inability to take responsibility for HIS OWN CHOICES). This is how ACoAs turn into As. We learn directly from them that nothing is their fault. Even your father's "suicide" wasn't his fault, it was yours right? You - a child! It must have been terrifying to be a child with so much "control" over other people. The problem with this reasoning is that you NEVER had control over your father. Only your father controls him - not you, not his mother, not anyone else. He may deny it until he's blue in the face, but the only one responsible for his choices is HIM.
Say you stick around, be the good daughter, and be there when your father dies. Say you spend those years fighting his self-blame and fighting the ongoing battle to "fix" him and his problems. Whose fault is it going to be when YEARS of your life are wasted on a problem you never had the power to fix? (when you feel old, wasted, and used) I have hunkering feeling it'll be your dad's fault, right? Because you were simply being a good daughter. Just like your grandma. It's not like you were CHOOSING this life; you were simply stuck with it. It won't be your fault; that's what you'll want to believe.
I realize this reply is crude and you may not be ready to hear it, but I say it because I have been in your shoes. I have been the good daughter struggling to fix her father's life. I have struggled with fixing his depression, his marriage, his unemployment, his totalled vehicles from driving home drunk, etc. etc. etc. With a little bit a therapy and support from people outside this destructive dynamic, I have learned to stop fixing people who don't want to change. I have stopped taking responsibility for other people's behavior. But it took a long time and new life skills.
You don't have to feel this way for the rest of your life. You don't have to spend your life waiting for "it to finally be over" when your dad dies. But without help and even a bit a therapy, seeing this life for yourself is almost impossible because of how much influence alcoholism has had on you. That part's not your fault, but what you choose do with the rest of your life is. Keep posting here when you feel like it, and know absolutely that you are NOT alone in what you're going through.
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
lms,
Welcome to the forum.
Dothi is 100% right on, correct, valid, and truth-tellling. You are not responsible for your dad's and grandmother's behavior and you cannot change it. Nor should you try. They will change if they want to - but that will be their choice, not yours.
Read over the 'stickies' at the top of this forum. All of them are great, but the one regarding 'guilt' may be very helpful for you. Basically, you will learn that guilt is a weapon in alcoholic families - not something from inside you but something that was delivered upon you.
You can show your dad that you love him without taking on his guilt. You have to set boundaries. You have to stand up and walk away when the guilt weapons are deployed. Make it clear that 'no' is not a negotiable term. You cannot let his insanity become your insanity.
There is a risk of losing the relationship with your father if he does not respect your boundaries.
But what risk is worse? -
a) Continuing to take on guilt and shame for things you had no control over AND risking your sanity AND producing no change in his behavior or your grandmother's behavior.
b) Losing contact with him and your grandmother until they decide that a relationship with you is well worth the effort to drop the guilt trips, old arguments and 'picking sides'.
It is really great that you have a good relationship with your husband. I tried his way of handling ACOA issues but it just doesn't work out very well in the long run. Keep posting and reading. And Happy New Year to ya'.
Welcome to the forum.
Dothi is 100% right on, correct, valid, and truth-tellling. You are not responsible for your dad's and grandmother's behavior and you cannot change it. Nor should you try. They will change if they want to - but that will be their choice, not yours.
Read over the 'stickies' at the top of this forum. All of them are great, but the one regarding 'guilt' may be very helpful for you. Basically, you will learn that guilt is a weapon in alcoholic families - not something from inside you but something that was delivered upon you.
You can show your dad that you love him without taking on his guilt. You have to set boundaries. You have to stand up and walk away when the guilt weapons are deployed. Make it clear that 'no' is not a negotiable term. You cannot let his insanity become your insanity.
There is a risk of losing the relationship with your father if he does not respect your boundaries.
But what risk is worse? -
a) Continuing to take on guilt and shame for things you had no control over AND risking your sanity AND producing no change in his behavior or your grandmother's behavior.
b) Losing contact with him and your grandmother until they decide that a relationship with you is well worth the effort to drop the guilt trips, old arguments and 'picking sides'.
It is really great that you have a good relationship with your husband. I tried his way of handling ACOA issues but it just doesn't work out very well in the long run. Keep posting and reading. And Happy New Year to ya'.
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