Prayers for my Mom.
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, USA
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Prayers for my Mom.
Sorry I haven't been on for awhile and missed wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving but my 92 year old mom isn't doing too well. She's been in and out of the hospital twice in the last 4 weeks and is gettting weaker and like she says "I'm just tired, it's been fun but I'm really tired." She wants to come home for a little while, at least long enough to find her two kitty cats a good home, and then we'll see.
On another note, I was sitting with her today talking about AD and drugs and she had quite an opinion about the whole thing. I was mentioning how many drugs are out there and the three C's and how to stop drug use and so on when she said in her opinion (which is the only one that counts if you knew her) the widespread use of drugs today is more or less our fault. Only in the way that society has accepted them, with movie stars, athletes and so on, it's almost a given to be a drug user. It wouldn't have been accepted in her day and age. She said most of the drugs on the market today have been there forever. How they looked at a drug user back then was totally different and drugs were just plain unacceptable. Families put them out and didn't spend fortunes on rehab. Pft - you were gone. The whole family turned their back on you. Now we make them the center of our attention.
Kids didn't live with their families forever. Eighteen and you were out unless you worked full time and contributed your paycheck to the whole family. She told me I babied my kids way too much, gave them way, way too much and that it's a shame we think we have to keep giving and giving to someone who should have been an adult and on their own years and years earlier. In her words, we coddle way too much today. Drugs will be here foever, how we accept it has just got to change. Guess she wasn't too tired for all that.
What's your take on that.
Oh, and Happy Belated Thanksgiving.
On another note, I was sitting with her today talking about AD and drugs and she had quite an opinion about the whole thing. I was mentioning how many drugs are out there and the three C's and how to stop drug use and so on when she said in her opinion (which is the only one that counts if you knew her) the widespread use of drugs today is more or less our fault. Only in the way that society has accepted them, with movie stars, athletes and so on, it's almost a given to be a drug user. It wouldn't have been accepted in her day and age. She said most of the drugs on the market today have been there forever. How they looked at a drug user back then was totally different and drugs were just plain unacceptable. Families put them out and didn't spend fortunes on rehab. Pft - you were gone. The whole family turned their back on you. Now we make them the center of our attention.
Kids didn't live with their families forever. Eighteen and you were out unless you worked full time and contributed your paycheck to the whole family. She told me I babied my kids way too much, gave them way, way too much and that it's a shame we think we have to keep giving and giving to someone who should have been an adult and on their own years and years earlier. In her words, we coddle way too much today. Drugs will be here foever, how we accept it has just got to change. Guess she wasn't too tired for all that.
What's your take on that.
Oh, and Happy Belated Thanksgiving.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 101
God Bless your mom, Baxter. I'm sorry she's not doing well, but wow, her mind is as sharp as ever at 92, isn't it?!
I have to say that I agree with your mom. When I was in High School (graduated in 1983) there was the "stoner" group and they were a small group and stuck to themselves. I don't know how to nicely say this, but for lack of better words, they were outcasts. NOW, by the time my sons were in High School (2000), all the popular kids were doing pot, pills, and God knows what else. We all know that high school is about fitting in and finding your social spot. A lot of kids emulate the popular group and also it being glamourized with the celebs as your Mom said, of course kids don't look down on drugs and drug users like they did in my day.
I have to confess that this is a huge struggle for me, not being judgmental about my own son. It's definitely a mixed bag and I'm learning... A LOT. More than I wanted to.
Interesting topic...
I have to say that I agree with your mom. When I was in High School (graduated in 1983) there was the "stoner" group and they were a small group and stuck to themselves. I don't know how to nicely say this, but for lack of better words, they were outcasts. NOW, by the time my sons were in High School (2000), all the popular kids were doing pot, pills, and God knows what else. We all know that high school is about fitting in and finding your social spot. A lot of kids emulate the popular group and also it being glamourized with the celebs as your Mom said, of course kids don't look down on drugs and drug users like they did in my day.
I have to confess that this is a huge struggle for me, not being judgmental about my own son. It's definitely a mixed bag and I'm learning... A LOT. More than I wanted to.
Interesting topic...
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Baxter)))
First of all, prayers to your mom.
I have to agree with her on some aspects. I don't know if there are more drugs around now, although I think there are, but I also know there is much more media coverage of it now. It seems like every time you turn around, you see another story of some star gonig into rehab.
I also think that, way back then
, families did more things together. However, I don't see that as anyone's fault, these days, in that with the economy, both parents usually HAVE to work, and there are more options of things for kids to do outside of school.
I'm tired so I don't know if I agree or disagree with her, but she's made me think! I do know that addiction has been around a long, long time, but, like she said, they were looked down on, so no one really knows how many were around.
I hope you had a good Thanksgiving!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
First of all, prayers to your mom.
I have to agree with her on some aspects. I don't know if there are more drugs around now, although I think there are, but I also know there is much more media coverage of it now. It seems like every time you turn around, you see another story of some star gonig into rehab.
I also think that, way back then
, families did more things together. However, I don't see that as anyone's fault, these days, in that with the economy, both parents usually HAVE to work, and there are more options of things for kids to do outside of school.I'm tired so I don't know if I agree or disagree with her, but she's made me think! I do know that addiction has been around a long, long time, but, like she said, they were looked down on, so no one really knows how many were around.
I hope you had a good Thanksgiving!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: lancaster, PA
Posts: 852
Prayers for your mom, and happy holidays to you and your family. On that note, a friend of mine asked me if I thought drug addiction was a focus or even a problem in countries where it is legal and viewed differently.
Same kind of concept- only the opposite view, he was asking if I thought in netherlands (i think) if marriages etc. are destroyed or not, because taking drugs is legal and acceptable in their society.
Don't know how I view either school of thought.... other than I guess OUR view on the problem is the only one we can respond to.....
Take care and health,happiness, and peace to you and your family.
Cessy
Same kind of concept- only the opposite view, he was asking if I thought in netherlands (i think) if marriages etc. are destroyed or not, because taking drugs is legal and acceptable in their society.
Don't know how I view either school of thought.... other than I guess OUR view on the problem is the only one we can respond to.....
Take care and health,happiness, and peace to you and your family.
Cessy
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
How wonderful that your mother has lived to such an age and still is capable of clear thoughts and conversation. Prayers for her that her last days are kind and peaceful.
I think drugs and alcohol abuse have always been a problem, they just were not spoken of much. AA goes back to around 1935 and before that there was The Oxford Group. Sigmund Freud thought cocaine was the miracle cure for mental illness and widely prescribed it until he discovered the addictive downside.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's and drugs were prevalent and "acceptable" back in the hippy generation. I never ever liked drugs, wouldn't allow even pot in my house in my early days of marriage...and I was the oddball.
I don't blame us as parents, most that I know here and in person did a fine job in raising their children with values and love and responsibility. But perhaps as a society we carry some of the burden. And as a society we have an obligation to reverse the trend, through education at an early age, affordable addiction treatment, and strict legal penalties for anyone caught with more than a personal use quantity.
Hey! Your mom has this codie thinking hard at 5 am. Tell her to knock it off and act her age, will ya
Hugs to both of you.
I think drugs and alcohol abuse have always been a problem, they just were not spoken of much. AA goes back to around 1935 and before that there was The Oxford Group. Sigmund Freud thought cocaine was the miracle cure for mental illness and widely prescribed it until he discovered the addictive downside.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's and drugs were prevalent and "acceptable" back in the hippy generation. I never ever liked drugs, wouldn't allow even pot in my house in my early days of marriage...and I was the oddball.
I don't blame us as parents, most that I know here and in person did a fine job in raising their children with values and love and responsibility. But perhaps as a society we carry some of the burden. And as a society we have an obligation to reverse the trend, through education at an early age, affordable addiction treatment, and strict legal penalties for anyone caught with more than a personal use quantity.
Hey! Your mom has this codie thinking hard at 5 am. Tell her to knock it off and act her age, will ya
Hugs to both of you.
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
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(Just so you know, I've been around Ann early in the morning, and she really IS that sharp and on-the-ball even before she's had coffee.... )
I agree, this is something that makes me stop and think. I did the best I could do as a parent to work on my kids' values and to keep them focused on other things besides what society said SHOULD be their focus. Sadly, the outside influences were stronger than I was and we all struggled for awhile. As young adults, they have finally found some balance between wanting what everyone else has (in a material sense) and enjoying the simple things in life.
I think the world has changed a lot, and it hasn't all been good changes. It's an "instant gratification" thing now with cell phones and i-pods and microwaves and credit cards. No one has to wait for anything... when's the last time you heard that someone was saving their money to get something? Now adays they just charge it and then complain about paying for it later. Multitasking is another word for doing too many things at once. If you're doing 3 things, that means no ONE thing has your full and undivided attention.
In your Grandmother's day, not very many women had jobs outside the home. That meant there was a parent around who (sometimes) kept an eye on what the kids were doing.
I could go on and on, but I think the world is just a totally different place than it was. I think drugs have always been around, but they were certainly more difficult to find. Now they are only a text message and GPS trip away.
I'm going to have more coffee and be back. I might make more sense then!
)I agree, this is something that makes me stop and think. I did the best I could do as a parent to work on my kids' values and to keep them focused on other things besides what society said SHOULD be their focus. Sadly, the outside influences were stronger than I was and we all struggled for awhile. As young adults, they have finally found some balance between wanting what everyone else has (in a material sense) and enjoying the simple things in life.
I think the world has changed a lot, and it hasn't all been good changes. It's an "instant gratification" thing now with cell phones and i-pods and microwaves and credit cards. No one has to wait for anything... when's the last time you heard that someone was saving their money to get something? Now adays they just charge it and then complain about paying for it later. Multitasking is another word for doing too many things at once. If you're doing 3 things, that means no ONE thing has your full and undivided attention.
In your Grandmother's day, not very many women had jobs outside the home. That meant there was a parent around who (sometimes) kept an eye on what the kids were doing.
I could go on and on, but I think the world is just a totally different place than it was. I think drugs have always been around, but they were certainly more difficult to find. Now they are only a text message and GPS trip away.
I'm going to have more coffee and be back. I might make more sense then!
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Posts: 3,582
Baxter,
Hugs to you, and your mom.
My mom is 90, and still has a sharp mind like your mom.
As to your moms opinion.
IMO, she hit it right on the head.
Sometimes on Saturdays, I turn on the tv, and catch the countdown on VH1, it's the top 20 music videos. Last Saturday 3 out of the top 10 were drug related. So...drugs, yep..they're everywhere.
And if you're a movie star or an athlete, you can pay your way out of trouble.
I hear politics talking about economy, and foreign issues, but haven't heard any news on the war on drugs. Unfortunately, people high up, are making BIG money on drugs, and I do not see it changing any time soon.
As for coddling...I never felt like I did much of that. Yes, I loved them, but I was quite busy attending college, and working at the same time I was raising my 2 sons, and being married, so mostly they contributed in little ways around the house. Washing dishes, cleaning, helping out.
The "coddling" started when they got into trouble, and I (silly me) thought I could save them.
Love your moms opinions, she should write a book.
Give her a big hug for me, would ya?
Hugs to you, and your mom.
My mom is 90, and still has a sharp mind like your mom.
As to your moms opinion.
IMO, she hit it right on the head.
Sometimes on Saturdays, I turn on the tv, and catch the countdown on VH1, it's the top 20 music videos. Last Saturday 3 out of the top 10 were drug related. So...drugs, yep..they're everywhere.
And if you're a movie star or an athlete, you can pay your way out of trouble.
I hear politics talking about economy, and foreign issues, but haven't heard any news on the war on drugs. Unfortunately, people high up, are making BIG money on drugs, and I do not see it changing any time soon.
As for coddling...I never felt like I did much of that. Yes, I loved them, but I was quite busy attending college, and working at the same time I was raising my 2 sons, and being married, so mostly they contributed in little ways around the house. Washing dishes, cleaning, helping out.
The "coddling" started when they got into trouble, and I (silly me) thought I could save them.
Love your moms opinions, she should write a book.
Give her a big hug for me, would ya?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 230
Thanks guys.
My mom thinks I did a wonderful job raising my girls, I think we all give it the best shot we can and do a wonderful job. I think every person here has done a wonderful job. I think what she meant is that every generation tends to give their children more than what they had when they were growing up. All of it with good intentions and love. But to her it seems now we give way to much, expect way too little in return and as a result we've "coddled" them and raised some spoiled kids that think everything is acceptable. Then we beat ourselves up wondering what we did wrong when everything was done with love.
The thing that has irritated her more than anything is the way my kids, especially my AD, have talked to me. No respect and I've allowed it. My fault. I would never have dared talk to my mother like that. Never even thought of it. Why is that? What was different then that almost all kids never thought to talk back. It wasn't that we were abused, we didn't even think of it. (of course we muttered things under our breath) I also never questioned anything when she told me to do something. Clean my room, you bet. My kids would look at me and say it's my room, I'll clean it later. Same with doing dishes. My girls would argue. Why did I even let them do that? I never would have thought to say that to my mom. My bed was made every day with out question. Yet she never, ever, laid a hand on me.
It's little things like that, that I let them get away with, with good intentions, trying to be the perfect parent that she says I (or society) has let grow and accepted that behavior and she thinks we reward them by allowing it. That word Coddle again.
I grew up in the 60's myself and hated drugs. That was about when they started becoming the cool things to do and openly. Before, heroin, opium pot were all around but I think you really thought hard before getting into them because once hooked you were just about on your own. Now it seems the kids see one rock star or athlete a day going into rehab and we cheer them on, accept it, and the kids think it's the thing to do. My mom says if in her day the headlines read Bing Crosby was hooked on heroin and opium no one would have even bought a record of his, his contract would have been dropped and he would be out on the street. Not that that is the way to treat anyone but he wouldn't have been paraded on TV as some idol and that we should feel sorry for him.
Oh, she comes up with some good ones at 92.
My mom thinks I did a wonderful job raising my girls, I think we all give it the best shot we can and do a wonderful job. I think every person here has done a wonderful job. I think what she meant is that every generation tends to give their children more than what they had when they were growing up. All of it with good intentions and love. But to her it seems now we give way to much, expect way too little in return and as a result we've "coddled" them and raised some spoiled kids that think everything is acceptable. Then we beat ourselves up wondering what we did wrong when everything was done with love.
The thing that has irritated her more than anything is the way my kids, especially my AD, have talked to me. No respect and I've allowed it. My fault. I would never have dared talk to my mother like that. Never even thought of it. Why is that? What was different then that almost all kids never thought to talk back. It wasn't that we were abused, we didn't even think of it. (of course we muttered things under our breath) I also never questioned anything when she told me to do something. Clean my room, you bet. My kids would look at me and say it's my room, I'll clean it later. Same with doing dishes. My girls would argue. Why did I even let them do that? I never would have thought to say that to my mom. My bed was made every day with out question. Yet she never, ever, laid a hand on me.
It's little things like that, that I let them get away with, with good intentions, trying to be the perfect parent that she says I (or society) has let grow and accepted that behavior and she thinks we reward them by allowing it. That word Coddle again.
I grew up in the 60's myself and hated drugs. That was about when they started becoming the cool things to do and openly. Before, heroin, opium pot were all around but I think you really thought hard before getting into them because once hooked you were just about on your own. Now it seems the kids see one rock star or athlete a day going into rehab and we cheer them on, accept it, and the kids think it's the thing to do. My mom says if in her day the headlines read Bing Crosby was hooked on heroin and opium no one would have even bought a record of his, his contract would have been dropped and he would be out on the street. Not that that is the way to treat anyone but he wouldn't have been paraded on TV as some idol and that we should feel sorry for him.
Oh, she comes up with some good ones at 92.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,453
I agree with your mom. Our society is desensitized to drugs. Just watch a movie and you can see it - its okay to light up a joint, get drunk, do coke, geeze a movie can actually show you how to shoot heroin.
When my son was born - the child "experts" told us that how our parents raised us was wrong - we were supposed to be much gentler with them - no one ever ever lost a game - everyone was so special and never ever should we spank them and heaven forbid we should we raise our voices or tell them they were wrong or bad. We were supposed to "talk" to them. We find out now that a child's brain cannot understand all those "talks" we had. Now we have a generation of kids who think they cannot loose and that sex, drugs, anything they want to do is okay and they cannot accept consequences for their actions. I am in no way saying that its the parents fault - in fact its quite the opposite. In her day a person, even a child was responsible for their own actions but not now. Now we blame everyone - whatever problems i have i can envitably blame on my parents. Children in her day had responsiblity to the family - now we're cruel if we make them do chores. The advice I give new parents is Dont read parenting books.
After a few dillusional years, I tried to raise my son more in the manner that she speaks but i have such a hard time because society tells him something else and his friends' parents pamper, protect, cover for, and spoil their children - my son doesnt understand why his life is different and why his is harder. His is different because he is medically fragile, financially because we cannot afford what others have, and socially because i feel that every member of the family must contribute something according to their ability. I will say one thing - even though my son is an addict he knows how to work, by 13 he could cook, wash his own clothes, work in the yard - his friends just flounder if someone doesnt hold their hand the whole time and take over anytime it gets hard. I've seen 16 year olds who have no idea how to load a dishwasher.
Life IS hard and in her generation kids knew that before they became adults - now kids live in a fairy tale and i worry about my sons generation of pampered kids who suddenly find out that it takes a lot of work and that they arent as elite as they have believed. Yes we're all special but we're all just one special person in a world full of special people.
Women at home really makes no difference. I telecommute and have been working from home since my son was around 3 - he just rejects my ways becuase what he sees as reality is warped. He is more in tune with the hippy way of life. The hippies of the 60s are now the ones who have control in our society. To me, freedom and success should be looked at as an earned right for productive members of society. If you dont pull your weight then you shouldnt get all the benefits of those who do.
Finally, I accept that addiction is a disease but I've seen a lot of people with other diseases and disabilities that move past them and still become productive members of society. They just choose to not let their disease stop them and the bottom line for me is that in order for the the addicted person to function they also make choices to move past their disease. We live in a society of excuses - I can do whatever I want because _____ (fill in the blank) happened to me and you need to all feel sorry for me for not having a perfect life.
I did drugs and drank a lot when i was young - my parents wrote me off and I knew that I would not be welcomed around them while i was engaging in that lifestyle. Understand - it wasnt "you cant use in my home" or "dont come here high" it was "you are not welcomed while you live like this." I never asked them for money because they would say no. I never asked to live in their home - it would be no. Once you left you didnt come back and you took care of yourself. Once I grew up and got my life back together I was more than welcome and they never once have thrown it in my face. but I'm an adult and they expect me to take care of myself. They offer emotional support and occassionaly will give a gift of something they know will help me out - but i never ever ask for it.
When my son was born - the child "experts" told us that how our parents raised us was wrong - we were supposed to be much gentler with them - no one ever ever lost a game - everyone was so special and never ever should we spank them and heaven forbid we should we raise our voices or tell them they were wrong or bad. We were supposed to "talk" to them. We find out now that a child's brain cannot understand all those "talks" we had. Now we have a generation of kids who think they cannot loose and that sex, drugs, anything they want to do is okay and they cannot accept consequences for their actions. I am in no way saying that its the parents fault - in fact its quite the opposite. In her day a person, even a child was responsible for their own actions but not now. Now we blame everyone - whatever problems i have i can envitably blame on my parents. Children in her day had responsiblity to the family - now we're cruel if we make them do chores. The advice I give new parents is Dont read parenting books.
After a few dillusional years, I tried to raise my son more in the manner that she speaks but i have such a hard time because society tells him something else and his friends' parents pamper, protect, cover for, and spoil their children - my son doesnt understand why his life is different and why his is harder. His is different because he is medically fragile, financially because we cannot afford what others have, and socially because i feel that every member of the family must contribute something according to their ability. I will say one thing - even though my son is an addict he knows how to work, by 13 he could cook, wash his own clothes, work in the yard - his friends just flounder if someone doesnt hold their hand the whole time and take over anytime it gets hard. I've seen 16 year olds who have no idea how to load a dishwasher.
Life IS hard and in her generation kids knew that before they became adults - now kids live in a fairy tale and i worry about my sons generation of pampered kids who suddenly find out that it takes a lot of work and that they arent as elite as they have believed. Yes we're all special but we're all just one special person in a world full of special people.
Women at home really makes no difference. I telecommute and have been working from home since my son was around 3 - he just rejects my ways becuase what he sees as reality is warped. He is more in tune with the hippy way of life. The hippies of the 60s are now the ones who have control in our society. To me, freedom and success should be looked at as an earned right for productive members of society. If you dont pull your weight then you shouldnt get all the benefits of those who do.
Finally, I accept that addiction is a disease but I've seen a lot of people with other diseases and disabilities that move past them and still become productive members of society. They just choose to not let their disease stop them and the bottom line for me is that in order for the the addicted person to function they also make choices to move past their disease. We live in a society of excuses - I can do whatever I want because _____ (fill in the blank) happened to me and you need to all feel sorry for me for not having a perfect life.
I did drugs and drank a lot when i was young - my parents wrote me off and I knew that I would not be welcomed around them while i was engaging in that lifestyle. Understand - it wasnt "you cant use in my home" or "dont come here high" it was "you are not welcomed while you live like this." I never asked them for money because they would say no. I never asked to live in their home - it would be no. Once you left you didnt come back and you took care of yourself. Once I grew up and got my life back together I was more than welcome and they never once have thrown it in my face. but I'm an adult and they expect me to take care of myself. They offer emotional support and occassionaly will give a gift of something they know will help me out - but i never ever ask for it.
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
Times change.
Thinking back from when I was in school...
if EVER I was sent to the principals office I would have been
scared and embarrassed!
And I never knew ANYONE who owned a gun for goodness sake.
Thinking back from when I was in school...
if EVER I was sent to the principals office I would have been
scared and embarrassed!
And I never knew ANYONE who owned a gun for goodness sake.
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