Changing Our Normal
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Changing Our Normal
Blessed4X said something brilliant in another thread in which the OP was looking for normal:
This touched off a storm in my head. Here's what my "normal" used to look like:
--Not much self-esteem, so I had to get lots of strokes from others
--Very easy to fall into feelings that I'd been rejected, which caused depression
--Never had enough money at the end of the month to save anything
--A victim of other peoples' moods and choices, easily picking up on their feelings and making them my own
--Always quick to vent/complain about my job, my bank account, my partner
--Watched tons of TV but claimed I never had time to do anything for myself
Etc etc. I lived like that for decades, and because it was "my normal" I never even had an inkling that life might be different. I thought everybody did that stuff. Really, it's just the "normal" that I grew up with, and it became the default setting for my life.
But what happens when we want to retool "our normal" and make it something better? It seems like at least half of the people who come to our community here have been taught one thing (just deal with it, you have to stay so you won't be alone, you can't live without a spouse) and it crashes right into the reality that "their normal" has become hell on earth. Changing our normal becomes quite a job sometimes, because we often have to rewire ourselves from the inside out. At least I did.
What was or is "your normal" ? What did you change to make a New Normal, or what would you like to change?
I'd be curious.
Originally Posted by blessed4x 
My problem is I don't want my normal anymore.
--Not much self-esteem, so I had to get lots of strokes from others
--Very easy to fall into feelings that I'd been rejected, which caused depression
--Never had enough money at the end of the month to save anything
--A victim of other peoples' moods and choices, easily picking up on their feelings and making them my own
--Always quick to vent/complain about my job, my bank account, my partner
--Watched tons of TV but claimed I never had time to do anything for myself
Etc etc. I lived like that for decades, and because it was "my normal" I never even had an inkling that life might be different. I thought everybody did that stuff. Really, it's just the "normal" that I grew up with, and it became the default setting for my life.
But what happens when we want to retool "our normal" and make it something better? It seems like at least half of the people who come to our community here have been taught one thing (just deal with it, you have to stay so you won't be alone, you can't live without a spouse) and it crashes right into the reality that "their normal" has become hell on earth. Changing our normal becomes quite a job sometimes, because we often have to rewire ourselves from the inside out. At least I did.
What was or is "your normal" ? What did you change to make a New Normal, or what would you like to change?
I'd be curious.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,694
My parents are happily married.
Growing up, I never saw them fight - never heard them argue behind closed doors.
Love and marriage were emphasized as the road to happiness and completion, and I was raised to believe that "normal" involved soulmate-centered family life.
Yeah - I know it's not the ultimate horror story of upbringing - I'm certainly not saying that it is - it just set me up for some disappointment.
I can see now that my parents never fight because my mother gives in to EVERY SINGLE ONE of my father's wishes and whims. She depends on him to take care of her, and he obliges.
They have a dynamic that I tried to recreate in my marriage.
Ummm... it didn't work for me.
My new normal involves making plans for myself - by myself.
Picturing myself single and in love with my life.
Taking care of my own needs.
Viewing a relationship as a "luxury item" (thanks, LaTeeDa!), not as a neccessity.
Great thread, GiveLove!
-TC
Growing up, I never saw them fight - never heard them argue behind closed doors.
Love and marriage were emphasized as the road to happiness and completion, and I was raised to believe that "normal" involved soulmate-centered family life.
Yeah - I know it's not the ultimate horror story of upbringing - I'm certainly not saying that it is - it just set me up for some disappointment.
I can see now that my parents never fight because my mother gives in to EVERY SINGLE ONE of my father's wishes and whims. She depends on him to take care of her, and he obliges.
They have a dynamic that I tried to recreate in my marriage.
Ummm... it didn't work for me.
My new normal involves making plans for myself - by myself.
Picturing myself single and in love with my life.
Taking care of my own needs.
Viewing a relationship as a "luxury item" (thanks, LaTeeDa!), not as a neccessity.
Great thread, GiveLove!
-TC
Formerly known as soconfused11
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colon, MI
Posts: 410
What was or is "your normal" ? What did you change to make a New Normal, or what would you like to change?
Being blamed for all the problems, which over time actually has changed my thinking to where I actually believe everything was my fault,
Normal was never being able to go anywhere without the abf stopping to get six beers first, so driving in the car with him drinking (with my son, and also his two kids in the car) became the norm....
Giving up things I enjoy doing to be with someone...like going to the movies, restaurants that don't serve beer, a lot of family activities, and actually this goes so much deeper, me giving up all my needs/wants for the benefit of my exabf....
I am working on changing my self confidence, finding myself, really digging deep to find out exactly what makes me happy. Lately, it is realizing that I do feel a lot better about myself when I feel like I am being a good mom by providing a safe, secure, stable home for my son, with no fighting, drunkeness, bullying. Where when my son talks to me, I can really focus and listen to him. I am working to create a peaceful, secure, happy home environment......where I can focus on things like me, my son, and my home. Not all the worry, problems, issues that are brought on alcoholism.
Oh, and today I am working on that by taking my boy and his friend to see Madagascar 2....it's been quite a while since we've been to the movies, afterall they don't serve beer!!! However, they do serve $5 soda pops, so I think we might all be sharing a drink!!!
I like this thread, great idea, GL!
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
My new normal is the opposite of what I used to live.
Even though my youngest AD still lives with me, today we have a good relationship because I have learned to change me, not try to change her.
I get up every morning and pray (didn't do that for years except conditional prayers like 'God, please MAKE AH stop doing what he does), and now I pray for God's will to be done, not mine.
I allow both ADs to make their own choices in life, right or wrong.
I am focused on attaining my goal of completing two college degrees, and have my day planned out accordingly on what school work I need to get done.
I reach out to my sponsor or others in recovery when I am struggling, whereas I used to stuff everything inside and isolate from everyone.
I no longer look at the 'difficulties' in life as problems, but rather as challenges.
I have learned to laugh more often, pamper myself with little things like bubble bath, or maybe a new perfume!
I no longer look at what's wrong with people in my life, but focus on myself and where I am needing to make changes.
I want to give to others, to share my recovery with them, which is HUGE for me because I was caught up in my own self-centeredness when still an untreated codependent. It was all about me me me and what others were doing to me.
Today I am responsible for my own happiness, and no longer look to the outside for validation.
I could go on all day but those were the things that popped into my head at this moment!
Even though my youngest AD still lives with me, today we have a good relationship because I have learned to change me, not try to change her.
I get up every morning and pray (didn't do that for years except conditional prayers like 'God, please MAKE AH stop doing what he does), and now I pray for God's will to be done, not mine.
I allow both ADs to make their own choices in life, right or wrong.
I am focused on attaining my goal of completing two college degrees, and have my day planned out accordingly on what school work I need to get done.
I reach out to my sponsor or others in recovery when I am struggling, whereas I used to stuff everything inside and isolate from everyone.
I no longer look at the 'difficulties' in life as problems, but rather as challenges.
I have learned to laugh more often, pamper myself with little things like bubble bath, or maybe a new perfume!
I no longer look at what's wrong with people in my life, but focus on myself and where I am needing to make changes.
I want to give to others, to share my recovery with them, which is HUGE for me because I was caught up in my own self-centeredness when still an untreated codependent. It was all about me me me and what others were doing to me.
Today I am responsible for my own happiness, and no longer look to the outside for validation.
I could go on all day but those were the things that popped into my head at this moment!
Formerly known as soconfused11
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colon, MI
Posts: 410
Anvil,
I can understand, I, too lost my husband to cancer, he was 30. And he was very much the same way....so not ready to stop living, he worked until his boss told him "No more", and still insisted on trying to hunt. He couldn't keep up with the guys, but nobody cared. It definitely makes you look at life differently.....I can't believe I've allowed myself to live in misery for 3 1/2 years after that experience, because life really is too short.
I can understand, I, too lost my husband to cancer, he was 30. And he was very much the same way....so not ready to stop living, he worked until his boss told him "No more", and still insisted on trying to hunt. He couldn't keep up with the guys, but nobody cared. It definitely makes you look at life differently.....I can't believe I've allowed myself to live in misery for 3 1/2 years after that experience, because life really is too short.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
"normal" for me is having communication be a two way street again
I was out and about today working and I have been commuting 4 hours a day lately, so it gives me a lot of time to "do" step work, call "recovered" people, and just "be with myself".
Today, I was making a few phone calls that were "tenth step related" as in I was cleaning up my side of the street on a few things, I have been having a hard time, so I have been tough to be around, so today I was calling around and making amends.
I bumped into "me" on probably three of those phone calls. There used to be this boxing game, where the view was "first person" (you were looking out of the boxers eyes" and as you "fought" your opponents every time he hit you this voice would be saying "head shot head shot, body blow, body blow, body blow. That's what these phone calls started to feel like. I could hear the voice in my head saying "body blow, body blow, head shot" I was like C'mon, that's enough.
In every one of these phone calls we navigated them in such a manner that I am closer to all of these people then before we talked.
I was able to "state my truth, and be validated, respected, and heard in all three instances, and in return I was able to listen, respect their reality, validate their feelings and honor them, and in every case we came to resolution peaceably, amicably, and with love.
These were difficult conversations today, and I was "taken to the mat hard" by these people, and in return was able to "state my truth", was "heard", respected and validated.
It's hard to explain, but for the last few years dealing with active alcoholics, the only responses I ever got from these types of conversations were:
A) Lie to my face then "punish" me later using passive aggressive tactics to show me who was really boss (mom, uncle, XAGF)
B) absolutely not "hear" me and start a horrific attack on me similar to a child going "no you, no you" and "defend defend defend attack attack attack" whenever I tried to start a dialogue. (sister, XAGF)
these were difficult conversations today, and I had to "see" and even "admit" some things I hadn't seen or knew about, some of it was hard to "hear".
However:
Nobody called me names
every one admitted their part, on both sides
no one got "defended" or just flat out lied to me
no one attacked me, and I didn't "attack" anyone
We were closer at the end of the conversation then the beginning
Since no one was "defended" or "attacking" the entire conversation took maybe 5-10 minutes in each instance, resolution happened, and I know it's behind us, we won't be having to "revisit" this over and over and over and over, with trying to "convince" each other who's right, who's wrong blah blah blah. This is "your reality" this is "my reality" and here's how I felt here, this is how you felt there, and how can I "help" there? What do I need to clean up?
God I can't convey how nice it is to be surrounded by "real adults" again. Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by healthy people I act just like them lol
The fact is that every one of these conversations came out with love, healing and respect...just makes me know that I am OK, that I am going to be OK, and that I'm NOT broken....I was wondering there for awhile, hang out with crazy people and it DOES become "normal" after awhile, well that stuff is moving into "the past" and "normal" is actually beginning to look "normal again....crazy is looking more and more crazy (not normal) and as that happens...I am getting "normal" too
woot
I was out and about today working and I have been commuting 4 hours a day lately, so it gives me a lot of time to "do" step work, call "recovered" people, and just "be with myself".
Today, I was making a few phone calls that were "tenth step related" as in I was cleaning up my side of the street on a few things, I have been having a hard time, so I have been tough to be around, so today I was calling around and making amends.
I bumped into "me" on probably three of those phone calls. There used to be this boxing game, where the view was "first person" (you were looking out of the boxers eyes" and as you "fought" your opponents every time he hit you this voice would be saying "head shot head shot, body blow, body blow, body blow. That's what these phone calls started to feel like. I could hear the voice in my head saying "body blow, body blow, head shot" I was like C'mon, that's enough.
In every one of these phone calls we navigated them in such a manner that I am closer to all of these people then before we talked.
I was able to "state my truth, and be validated, respected, and heard in all three instances, and in return I was able to listen, respect their reality, validate their feelings and honor them, and in every case we came to resolution peaceably, amicably, and with love.
These were difficult conversations today, and I was "taken to the mat hard" by these people, and in return was able to "state my truth", was "heard", respected and validated.
It's hard to explain, but for the last few years dealing with active alcoholics, the only responses I ever got from these types of conversations were:
A) Lie to my face then "punish" me later using passive aggressive tactics to show me who was really boss (mom, uncle, XAGF)
B) absolutely not "hear" me and start a horrific attack on me similar to a child going "no you, no you" and "defend defend defend attack attack attack" whenever I tried to start a dialogue. (sister, XAGF)
these were difficult conversations today, and I had to "see" and even "admit" some things I hadn't seen or knew about, some of it was hard to "hear".
However:
Nobody called me names
every one admitted their part, on both sides
no one got "defended" or just flat out lied to me
no one attacked me, and I didn't "attack" anyone
We were closer at the end of the conversation then the beginning
Since no one was "defended" or "attacking" the entire conversation took maybe 5-10 minutes in each instance, resolution happened, and I know it's behind us, we won't be having to "revisit" this over and over and over and over, with trying to "convince" each other who's right, who's wrong blah blah blah. This is "your reality" this is "my reality" and here's how I felt here, this is how you felt there, and how can I "help" there? What do I need to clean up?
God I can't convey how nice it is to be surrounded by "real adults" again. Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by healthy people I act just like them lol
The fact is that every one of these conversations came out with love, healing and respect...just makes me know that I am OK, that I am going to be OK, and that I'm NOT broken....I was wondering there for awhile, hang out with crazy people and it DOES become "normal" after awhile, well that stuff is moving into "the past" and "normal" is actually beginning to look "normal again....crazy is looking more and more crazy (not normal) and as that happens...I am getting "normal" too
woot
Last edited by Ago; 11-08-2008 at 03:41 PM.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Something I just realized:
If I change this
to
they both are resoundingly true
food for thought for me........
hmmmmmmm
If I change this
"Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by healthy people I act just like them"
"Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by crazy people I act just like them"
food for thought for me........
hmmmmmmm
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Thanks for each share, each with it's own unique wisdom.
I would like to learn to not take on and be affected by others moods so much.
This is a real problem for me. It almost seems to be in my nature.
I want to be compassionate and understanding, however I cannot find and feel no sense of the balance in this.
Thank you for this thread,
Tena
I would like to learn to not take on and be affected by others moods so much.
This is a real problem for me. It almost seems to be in my nature.
I want to be compassionate and understanding, however I cannot find and feel no sense of the balance in this.
Thank you for this thread,
Tena
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Originally Posted by Ago
they both are resoundingly true
food for thought for me........
The more time I spent intimate time or friendship time around damaged people, the more I reinforced my own damage.
Since starting to make a flip over to being around people who think and act in ways that aren't screwed up, I don't feel damaged any more. I just feel like someone who had a rather crummy upbringing, but who is in the process of thumbing her nose at all her tormenters and having a great life.
I got a whole meal out of that, Ago!
GL
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
wow, great thread, you guys are great!
What worked for me is that I realized that there is a _huge_ difference between "normal" and "happy". My biggest problem in life is that I get the definitions of words tangled up, recovery means untangling those definitions and understanding what the true meaning of a word is in my life.
I used to think normal = happy. Since I wasn't happy, then clearly I wasn't normal. I thought those two words were synonyms, I know realize they are not. Today I know that "normal" is the stuff that happes all the time, has _nothing_ to do with "happy".
As a child my toxic family was my "normal", because it happened all the time. Once I got away from that family I became able to create a whole new "normal" of my own making. Now that I've been away from my pill-addicted wife for awhile I have created a new "normal" that is much healthier.
I used to think that since the life I was living was my "normal", there was nothing I could do to change it. That was another misunderstanding, I thought "normal" = "permanent". Today I know I can change my "normal" any time I want to.
That's called "Awarenes".
The next thing I did was recognize that a large part of the mess I was in was my own fault. Not all of it, just some of it. My parents were abusive drunks, that was not my fault. I _believed_ the low self-esteem they forced upon me, that _was_ my fault. My ex-wife ran around with married guys, that was not my fault. I stayed in that marriage long after I knew she was doing that. What _was_ my fault.
Knowing that I had a part in my own misery was good, because that gave me the power to know what parts of my life I can change, and which I can not.
Tha's called "Acceptance"
There's a saying I've heard 'round the rooms of recovery that I can not think myself into healthier actions, but I can act myself into healthier thoughts. As long as I failed to take action to work on my self-esteem or failed to get out of that marriage, nothing would change. No matter how much Awarenes or Acceptance I may have. No matter how strong my good intentions were. That's the third part of the "recipe", it's called
"Action".
Every single day I take at least one action to improve _me_ and _my_ life. Some days all I can squeeze in is a few minutes after work to watch the sunset. That's enough for one day. My life didn't go down the toilet in one day, and I'm not getting it out in one day either. As long as I take some kind of action every single day, eventually it will get better.
And it has. This month is 4 years since my marriage fell apart. I've got a wonderful new life in a new town with new friends and a new romance. I have built a whole new "normal" for myself that is far healthier and happier than anything I've ever had before. The three "A's" of al-anon that I mentioned above have been my guide. That and a little re-write of the serenity prayer. ( I'm always re-writing the serenity prayer, it's the codie in me; always thinking I can fix it
)
HP, grant me the serenity to accept that I deserve a better life.
The courage to make that better life
and the wisdom to start today.
Mike
What worked for me is that I realized that there is a _huge_ difference between "normal" and "happy". My biggest problem in life is that I get the definitions of words tangled up, recovery means untangling those definitions and understanding what the true meaning of a word is in my life.
I used to think normal = happy. Since I wasn't happy, then clearly I wasn't normal. I thought those two words were synonyms, I know realize they are not. Today I know that "normal" is the stuff that happes all the time, has _nothing_ to do with "happy".
As a child my toxic family was my "normal", because it happened all the time. Once I got away from that family I became able to create a whole new "normal" of my own making. Now that I've been away from my pill-addicted wife for awhile I have created a new "normal" that is much healthier.
I used to think that since the life I was living was my "normal", there was nothing I could do to change it. That was another misunderstanding, I thought "normal" = "permanent". Today I know I can change my "normal" any time I want to.
That's called "Awarenes".
The next thing I did was recognize that a large part of the mess I was in was my own fault. Not all of it, just some of it. My parents were abusive drunks, that was not my fault. I _believed_ the low self-esteem they forced upon me, that _was_ my fault. My ex-wife ran around with married guys, that was not my fault. I stayed in that marriage long after I knew she was doing that. What _was_ my fault.
Knowing that I had a part in my own misery was good, because that gave me the power to know what parts of my life I can change, and which I can not.
Tha's called "Acceptance"
There's a saying I've heard 'round the rooms of recovery that I can not think myself into healthier actions, but I can act myself into healthier thoughts. As long as I failed to take action to work on my self-esteem or failed to get out of that marriage, nothing would change. No matter how much Awarenes or Acceptance I may have. No matter how strong my good intentions were. That's the third part of the "recipe", it's called
"Action".
Every single day I take at least one action to improve _me_ and _my_ life. Some days all I can squeeze in is a few minutes after work to watch the sunset. That's enough for one day. My life didn't go down the toilet in one day, and I'm not getting it out in one day either. As long as I take some kind of action every single day, eventually it will get better.
And it has. This month is 4 years since my marriage fell apart. I've got a wonderful new life in a new town with new friends and a new romance. I have built a whole new "normal" for myself that is far healthier and happier than anything I've ever had before. The three "A's" of al-anon that I mentioned above have been my guide. That and a little re-write of the serenity prayer. ( I'm always re-writing the serenity prayer, it's the codie in me; always thinking I can fix it
)HP, grant me the serenity to accept that I deserve a better life.
The courage to make that better life
and the wisdom to start today.
Mike
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
HP, grant me the serenity to accept that I deserve a better life.
The courage to make that better life
and the wisdom to start today.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: MO
Posts: 743
Thanks GL for starting this, and glad I could inspire you!
My "normal" crept up on me. It went from the American dream....house, minivan, 2.6 kids (okay I got a little carried away there) to:
-checking the fridge every night to keep a mental count of his intake
-checking his cell for unusual numbers or texts
-kissing him just so I could check his breath when he got home
-checking receipts for alcohol purchases
All of this police work wore me out, and I started looking around and discovered that we were missing out on a whole lot of "normal" family things.....like school picnics, dining out, social gatherings with neighbors, all the things that "other normal people" seemed to be doing. I decided that something had to be done before it was too late. I started reading and posting here, saw a counselor, began confiding in friends about what really goes on behind closed doors. I let out our dirty little secret.
I still have a long way to go before I get there, but I finally believe that me and the kids can have "a new normal" without AH and the chaos that living with him creates. I think the future looks very promising!
My "normal" crept up on me. It went from the American dream....house, minivan, 2.6 kids (okay I got a little carried away there) to:
-checking the fridge every night to keep a mental count of his intake
-checking his cell for unusual numbers or texts
-kissing him just so I could check his breath when he got home
-checking receipts for alcohol purchases
All of this police work wore me out, and I started looking around and discovered that we were missing out on a whole lot of "normal" family things.....like school picnics, dining out, social gatherings with neighbors, all the things that "other normal people" seemed to be doing. I decided that something had to be done before it was too late. I started reading and posting here, saw a counselor, began confiding in friends about what really goes on behind closed doors. I let out our dirty little secret.
I still have a long way to go before I get there, but I finally believe that me and the kids can have "a new normal" without AH and the chaos that living with him creates. I think the future looks very promising!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
You know the saying that a cat has nine lives, well I'm really sure that I have had several more than that. So I have had ALOT of normals. Some have been just plain tragic and some have been dreams come true. I always just say in an offhand manner..."Well, I haven't been bored." And smile.
My sister says I have lived a challenging life. I though that was well put and with my personality....I could not stand a stagnant life.
And Mike I know you know this is true. You stated it as a fact, but I just wanted to tell you I am a science nerd and have been following cutting edge research in neurobiology as best I can through well chosen reading and the researches have proven that changing actions, changes our minds. AND that changing our minds (thinking) changes our brains and we can grow and develop and become stronger with proper practices. We can develop new abilities, physically, mentally, emotionally, we can develop new lives. To sum it up neuroplasticity has been proven...we can grow our brain in amazing ways!
My sister says I have lived a challenging life. I though that was well put and with my personality....I could not stand a stagnant life.
And Mike I know you know this is true. You stated it as a fact, but I just wanted to tell you I am a science nerd and have been following cutting edge research in neurobiology as best I can through well chosen reading and the researches have proven that changing actions, changes our minds. AND that changing our minds (thinking) changes our brains and we can grow and develop and become stronger with proper practices. We can develop new abilities, physically, mentally, emotionally, we can develop new lives. To sum it up neuroplasticity has been proven...we can grow our brain in amazing ways!
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
This whole thread, with all of the replies, coupled with an interesting day really "stirred my pot" in a very good way.
It's like all this stuff I read here, coupled with those phone calls, plus the meeting I went to, The speaker tonight, toss in the guy I have been talking to and "working with" the last few Saturdays (ex sponsee) and there is closure. There is healing.
I also "see my part"
and it's OK.
it really is, there's no "explaining her behavior away" or "justifying her behavior" nor is there "finger pointing and blame", but I'm also done trying to justify my behavior to myself, or beating myself up for what happened in the relationship and most importantly for walking away.
it is what it is and it's OK.
and "what it is" and "what it was" was the most healthy decision for everyone concerned (walking away)
I finally "get it" and am letting go of "right or wrong" or "good or bad" it just was what it was....there's a HUGE feeling of relief...and tons of forgiveness for both of us.
Don't get me wrong, she's poison for me, and me for her evidently but it just clicked when I wrote I did act just like them eventually, all of them, especially her
One thing that I learned from doing repeated 4th steps is I "pick my mirror" and I started noticing so did my sponsees, then I started noticing it....seemed the norm...what I used to say was "our matching mental illnesses call out to each other across the room" and I meant that in a good way strangely enough.
Like Alkies/Co's attract etc, so anyway, the latest theory in therapy when I was there was relationships are there to teach you lessons you missed in childhood. That turned out to be my experience. When I had this relationship with my "sober" ex, the amount of healing that took place was phenomenal, it was amazing, because we both wanted it, and were "trained" in therapy, by working the steps etc to get this. My growth and healing during this time (and hers) was no less then amazing.
When I "picked" up this last relationship, I was coming from "a broken place" because of what was going on with my family, so I picked a "broken person"..once again, no judgment, we were both "broken" at that time in one way or another...as are many of us here when we get here.
So back to matching mental illnesses...well my last one, the dynamic of that relationship was such that it made us both sicker rather then healing us.
When I "pick my mirror" I also "reflect my mirror" but there are two versions I can pick. One I get sicker with, or one I can heal with.
As a Codie, I can pick a recovering alcoholic type, or a practicing alcoholic type, or the same is true in reverse, as an alkie, I can pick a codie that's healing or one thats heading for her bottom. Who I pick, and/or who I stay with is a pretty good indication of my mental health. If my girlfriend isn't a barometer of my mental health, I don't know what is.
Anyway, for example:
I would say "Honey, why didn't you call?"
She would hear "you miserable ****, what man were you out with this time?"
then
She would say, "Fine, I am an awful person, I might as well go cheat" (near actual quote) then disappear for two days.
well you saw my reaction to that
we both saw our attempts at communication as attacks on each other, then she would isolate and not answer the phone, sending me into "abandonment mode" sending me into "chase after her mode" sending her into "run away" mode....
I would try to communicate, she would "get defended" then I would "try to get her to see my point of view" which she saw as an "attack" which she respond to by "getting defended" and so on.
One of my biggest shortcomings right now is an inability to deal with people who don't "see" me. That's why I get along with great communicators...they see me and tell me so.
anyway, trying to explain something....that is just
The point I'm trying to make is...it. just. doesn't. matter. any. more.
I'm really having difficulty explaining this, maybe I'll try again tomorrow, but for today, I've got forgiveness in my heart, for both of us, and I have "letting go" of both the stories, the pain, the finger pointing etc...
I'm an alcoholic. I can walk by a bottle of scotch right now with nary a glance or thought. It is simply an inert object, it also happens to be a deadly poison for me.
If I pick that drink up, I am instantly sick, the more I struggle with it, the sicker I get.
Eventually, I set the bottle back down, for a while when I see it, I'm angry at it, bargaining, denial, depression, etc. it's just "sitting there" and I'm throwing rocks at it...yelling at it....
After a period of time it's an inert object again.
She is the bottle, and I've "set it down", now I can begin to remember the good and the bad, but without the emotional baggage...that make sense? It's just a story, and all of the sudden I can "see my part" with blinding clarity. Now I can "walk by the bottle" and have it return to being an inert object, but one that's still deadly poison for me...although Scotch in and of itself isn't "bad" it sure will kill me if I even take the smallest sip.
She is "Scotch" for me.
Probably great for some people but deadly poison for me.
She is a wonderful mother, truly amazing, a wonderful employee, a good "person", an awful cook, but a great home maker...she's not a "bad" human being....actually she's a great, wonderful human being...for someone else....not me.
I hope this made some sort of sense, you were right givelove, it was a whole meal.
It's like all this stuff I read here, coupled with those phone calls, plus the meeting I went to, The speaker tonight, toss in the guy I have been talking to and "working with" the last few Saturdays (ex sponsee) and there is closure. There is healing.
I also "see my part"
and it's OK.
it really is, there's no "explaining her behavior away" or "justifying her behavior" nor is there "finger pointing and blame", but I'm also done trying to justify my behavior to myself, or beating myself up for what happened in the relationship and most importantly for walking away.
it is what it is and it's OK.
and "what it is" and "what it was" was the most healthy decision for everyone concerned (walking away)
I finally "get it" and am letting go of "right or wrong" or "good or bad" it just was what it was....there's a HUGE feeling of relief...and tons of forgiveness for both of us.
Don't get me wrong, she's poison for me, and me for her evidently but it just clicked when I wrote
"Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by crazy people I act just like them"
One thing that I learned from doing repeated 4th steps is I "pick my mirror" and I started noticing so did my sponsees, then I started noticing it....seemed the norm...what I used to say was "our matching mental illnesses call out to each other across the room" and I meant that in a good way strangely enough.
Like Alkies/Co's attract etc, so anyway, the latest theory in therapy when I was there was relationships are there to teach you lessons you missed in childhood. That turned out to be my experience. When I had this relationship with my "sober" ex, the amount of healing that took place was phenomenal, it was amazing, because we both wanted it, and were "trained" in therapy, by working the steps etc to get this. My growth and healing during this time (and hers) was no less then amazing.
When I "picked" up this last relationship, I was coming from "a broken place" because of what was going on with my family, so I picked a "broken person"..once again, no judgment, we were both "broken" at that time in one way or another...as are many of us here when we get here.
So back to matching mental illnesses...well my last one, the dynamic of that relationship was such that it made us both sicker rather then healing us.
When I "pick my mirror" I also "reflect my mirror" but there are two versions I can pick. One I get sicker with, or one I can heal with.
As a Codie, I can pick a recovering alcoholic type, or a practicing alcoholic type, or the same is true in reverse, as an alkie, I can pick a codie that's healing or one thats heading for her bottom. Who I pick, and/or who I stay with is a pretty good indication of my mental health. If my girlfriend isn't a barometer of my mental health, I don't know what is.
Anyway, for example:
I would say "Honey, why didn't you call?"
She would hear "you miserable ****, what man were you out with this time?"
then
She would say, "Fine, I am an awful person, I might as well go cheat" (near actual quote) then disappear for two days.
well you saw my reaction to that
we both saw our attempts at communication as attacks on each other, then she would isolate and not answer the phone, sending me into "abandonment mode" sending me into "chase after her mode" sending her into "run away" mode....
I would try to communicate, she would "get defended" then I would "try to get her to see my point of view" which she saw as an "attack" which she respond to by "getting defended" and so on.
One of my biggest shortcomings right now is an inability to deal with people who don't "see" me. That's why I get along with great communicators...they see me and tell me so.
anyway, trying to explain something....that is just
"Strangely enough when I'm surrounded by crazy people I act just like them"
I'm really having difficulty explaining this, maybe I'll try again tomorrow, but for today, I've got forgiveness in my heart, for both of us, and I have "letting go" of both the stories, the pain, the finger pointing etc...
I'm an alcoholic. I can walk by a bottle of scotch right now with nary a glance or thought. It is simply an inert object, it also happens to be a deadly poison for me.
If I pick that drink up, I am instantly sick, the more I struggle with it, the sicker I get.
Eventually, I set the bottle back down, for a while when I see it, I'm angry at it, bargaining, denial, depression, etc. it's just "sitting there" and I'm throwing rocks at it...yelling at it....
After a period of time it's an inert object again.
She is the bottle, and I've "set it down", now I can begin to remember the good and the bad, but without the emotional baggage...that make sense? It's just a story, and all of the sudden I can "see my part" with blinding clarity. Now I can "walk by the bottle" and have it return to being an inert object, but one that's still deadly poison for me...although Scotch in and of itself isn't "bad" it sure will kill me if I even take the smallest sip.
She is "Scotch" for me.
Probably great for some people but deadly poison for me.
She is a wonderful mother, truly amazing, a wonderful employee, a good "person", an awful cook, but a great home maker...she's not a "bad" human being....actually she's a great, wonderful human being...for someone else....not me.
I hope this made some sort of sense, you were right givelove, it was a whole meal.
Last edited by Ago; 11-09-2008 at 01:42 AM.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Ago, that made absolutely perfect sense to me. Your description of your relationship with your ex matches my last relationship perfectly.
As a codie I have to treat relationships exactly the same way alcoholics treat a drink. With great care and lots of outside support. I can choose a "toxic" relationship and get addicted to it just like I can choose a drink full of booze and get addicted to it. Or I can choose a "healthier" relationship and grow with it just like I can choose a diet soda.
thanx for your share, it helps me see my own life and progress more clearly.
Mike
As a codie I have to treat relationships exactly the same way alcoholics treat a drink. With great care and lots of outside support. I can choose a "toxic" relationship and get addicted to it just like I can choose a drink full of booze and get addicted to it. Or I can choose a "healthier" relationship and grow with it just like I can choose a diet soda.
thanx for your share, it helps me see my own life and progress more clearly.
Mike
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: California
Posts: 239
This was the best thread in a while. Thanks to all for sharing! You know I used to be torn by what I knew was right and what I FELT was right. It does all get shaped by the "normal" in our lives. It's like a re-set button. Once we can see our lives for what they really are...and most times it is not at all normal.....we can start to LIVE normally.
Incredible sharing here by all...I needed this today!
Incredible sharing here by all...I needed this today!
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