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How can we rebuild trust?

Old 11-04-2008, 02:07 PM
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mle-sober
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How can we rebuild trust?

My marriage therapist has instructed both my husband and myself to write down things we can each do (and ideas for what the other can do) to help us heal from my betrayal around alcohol.

My betrayal is that, as my alcoholism was getting really bad, I lied and hid my drinking from my husband for nine months. My lying really strongly affected him, of course. And now he feels distrustful in general. He has said that he thinks I probably had afairs (which I didn't) and that 25% of him doesn't believe me most of the time.

I'm in individual therapy, in AA, have a sponsor, am working the steps, went through an outpatient program and am continueing the aftercare one-night-a-week followup program. I've obviously apologized.

He says he forgives me.

I think one of the things I can think of to help that I could do would be to give him more time.

Other than that and what I'm currently doing, I can't think of anything! Any ideas?

In terms of what I think he could do, he thought it was ridiculous that he would have anything to do since, after all, it's my problem, not his.

So, I think he could go to Al-anon. He could educate himself about alcoholism (are there any of us that didn't lie to protect our beloved alcohol?) and he could go to individual therapy to address his control needs (another topic in a way but still related.)

Any other ideas?

I thought, since you guys are my best reference on alcoholism, I'd just throw it out there... if there arent any idea, I understand. It's kind of a strange question.

Thanks.
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:27 PM
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Hey mle,

I think you're doing all the right things, especially by taking and practicing the 12 Steps in AA. More than anything else that has freed me from the majority of the wreckage of my past, I've gained back much of the trust I lost.

But I constantly have to remind myself that recovery is a process, a life-long one, and sometimes it takes longer than I want it to. I continue to try to gain the trust of my ex back, but that damage might be too deep. It doesn't mean that I'll give up trying though, I just try to have an awareness of the doors that God opens for me when it's time to attempt an amends.

So if I can offer any experience.......Acceptance and no expectations. I accept my part in the damage I've done, and I don't expect anyone to forgive me or understand me if they're not ready and/or willing.

Easier said than done sometimes, but as with most things in recovery, it's "progress, not perfection".
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:09 PM
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In terms of what I think he could do, he thought it was ridiculous that he would have anything to do since, after all, it's my problem, not his.
I would disagree with your husband mle.

I haven't got much experience from the other side of being in a relationship with an alcoholic, but I do know the best relationships are the ones where you work at it, and you work in tandem.

From my own personal experience of being the alcoholic in relationships, it's easy to let our guilt keep us down - especially if others seem incapable of ever forgiving us our transgressions.

I got sober after a long stretch of being alone, but I still have ex gfs who cannot or will not forgive me.

I'll wear that responsibility, but I won't let it own me.

I'm doing my best to live a good life - I've genuinely done all I can - if others can't appreciate that because of whatever resentments, however justified - I have to consider it their issue, not mine.

How do you garner trust from someone reticent to give it?
I don't know - maybe this one is 'not your problem' ?

Still as Astro says - recovery is a process, a life-long one.
What's 'fact' this month might not be the next.

I wish you well
D

Last edited by Dee74; 11-04-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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I think you're doing what you need to be doing - it just takes time, and your husband may not be 'coming around' as quickly as others may. My kids have forgiven me and are trusting me again, but the youngest still drags up my drinking any time we disagree. I can't blame her. I can only continue to live sober, one day at a time, and hope she'll understand.

Be good to yourself. Perhaps if/when your husband sees you treating yourself with respect it will encourage him to treat you with (more) respect and begin to trust you more.

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Old 11-04-2008, 03:27 PM
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Hey mle-sober,
Very interesting post and strikes a chord with my situation. In terms of rebuilding the trust, I have come to the conclusion that it's only time that can do that job. Others have also helped me see that, and when you think about it there is no other primary way. That said, I've found that just listening to the pain of your partner also helps. In my case she needs to be heard and validated, often many times over (sometimes admittedly I do the listening with gritted teeth).

However, there is the other side of the coin. My partner has control issues. Serious ones. And I think she should be doing something about them. BUT, she says that me suggesting this is my way of responsibility shifting and is controlling on my part. Problem is, she has a point.

So here is the conclusion I came to. Regardless of anything else, I don't have the right to tell her to deal with her control issues anymore than she has the right to tell me to deal with my alcohol problem. If I do, I become controlling also. I, and she, can only set our boundaries. Perhaps in the end my boundary will be that enough is enough and I'll leave if things don't change. Perhaps she will think she;s taken too many lies and do the same. In the meantime I can only keep telling her that I don't like her controlling behaviour - and try and be specific. Whether she decides to address it is then up to her. I hope she will, but I'm not going to tell her to.

She knows that I'm vulnerable at the moment and seems to be taking her chance to be the 'OK one' vs me, the 'not OK' one. I know this is wrong (in reality we both have different issues) but I'm not going to get caight up in an argument about it at the moment. My plan is to sort out ME, maintain MY boundaries as best I can, and then when I am back on my feet a bit more, explore more fully what is OK for my life and what is not.

Good luck and remember that the most important things to YOU are YOUR inner peace and health.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:40 PM
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Hi mle. I know you've had this problem for quite awhile, I was hoping he was beginning to understand a bit. I have a similar problem, not with my husband, but my mother. She doesn't understand at all, and probably would never "lower" herself to go to Al-anon meetings or even read any of the great books on the subject. I suspect she's one of those who believe it's a character flaw, a weakness.

I hid my stash from my husband, too, and even though he can't relate to what I went through, he sees the life I live now and he trusts me to continue this way. I'm not sure why. He embraces the change in me rather than holding those awful days against me. Your husband is probably afraid to lower his defenses and trust you completely. Maybe he's trying to protect himself from being too hopeful and being hurt again.

I agree with Dee that you've done all you can (and I hope I'm not being too defensive on your behalf.) At this point his inability to move forward is his problem. It isn't fair that you should be held back by his attitude, you've tried so hard to make it this time.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:45 PM
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Yes, I was in the same situation. I drank alone and hid it from my husband as long as I could. And, I lied about it. I know it bothered him a lot, but, on the other hand, we had been married a long time at that point, and I had never lied about anything. Interestingly, my husband did not think he had to do anything either - it was my problem and I had to fix it.

I do know that my relationship has changed. It's not the way it was before I began drinking. In some ways that's good, and in some ways it's bad. It's change, it's life, it is what it is. I hope that your husband will be able to forgive you and to move on. That really is crucial for a relationship.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:46 PM
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I think it does take time for people on both sides to heal.
But I odnt agree that its just your problem. If that was the case..then whats he so upset about? So to me that means he has a problem with it too.
I dont have any advice.
I know that we can only do what we can on our part. And sooner or later as long as you keep your heart and mind in the right place. Things will eventually come together.
I think giving him time is a great idea. And yourself as well.

Good luck and keep doing what your doing and hopefully after some time. It will all work out.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:56 PM
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I've had to rebuild trust with my eldest daughter. I haven't seen her in several years. The best way to rebuild trust is to do exactly what I've been doing for 7 years - working hard at my recovery, and staying sober a day at a time. In the end, whether she decides to trust me again really isn't the point - I'll have taken care of my side of the street - and that's the most important thing. I need to remember this on days when I'm really missing her.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:58 PM
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You may not want to hear this right now MLE. Even so, its still the truth.

"...You can catch a cat in almost any trap... ONCE..."
"...Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me..."
"...Once burned, twice shy..."


Just be aware that sometimes trust is irretrievably burned away. Trust is like that. Some hurts simply run too deep.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:04 PM
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I understand what you mean, GreenTea (I was married to an alcoholic for 12yrs. before I became the one with a problem.) What's the point, though, in staying in a relationship if you can't or won't trust your partner again? If the trust can never be rebuilt, that's no way to live.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:08 PM
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Trust isn't just about me being trustworthy but also about others making a decision to trust me.

I messed up a relationship real bad once...bottom line, if he couldn't come to terms and trust me again....there was no point in continuing in a relationship that was no longer healthy.....

I try to change and act in healthy ways, and I try to give it time. Most time's that works, but if the damage is too severe or the other person isn't willing to heal....then a time comes to let go and move on.

(my ex sponsor and I went through this...we aren't "enemies" and talk occationallly, but it doesn't appear that the damage can really be fixed to the point of a really close relationship)
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
Trust isn't just about me being trustworthy but also about others making a decision to trust me.

That's about where I am right now. And I just don't know. He's making some sort of decision to trust me because when we discuss the big D word, he says he wants to keep trying.

But I feel caught in the snares of his misstrust with no clear path out.

Thank you for your thoughts. Each and every one of them give me food for thought.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:49 PM
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That's the thing mle-sober. It's probably like walking a fine line right now. Of course you need to give your husband enough time to trust you again, but at the same time, you need to respect yourself and know that you are worth of being trusted in your life.
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:53 PM
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MLE I feel for you. I damaged a lot with my drinking and only time and action on my part will ever regain the trust that I lost. Just keep on track, your recovery sounds like it is going well with AA and treatment.

I am sorry if this is a dumb question but are you doing marriage counseling with him or are you seeing a counselor and then bringing home assignments for him? The reason I ask is you mentioned the following,

"In terms of what I think he could do, he thought it was ridiculous that he would have anything to do since, after all, it's my problem, not his."

What does the therapist say about this attitude? Last time I checked, it takes two people to be in a marriage and a problem that effects one will effect the other.

I say this as a person who is still working on his marriage and as a person who wants to see you succeed in yours.

Thanks for posting and I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.

:praying
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:19 PM
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I am unsure how it is 'your problem' that he doesn't trust you.

I mean I am sure you betrayed him and gave him reason not to trust you, but if he wants to continue in that fashion then that is his choice and there ain't a hell of a lot you can do about except what you are already doing, staying sober focusing on your recovery and acting in a trustworthy manner.

A lot of family member choose not to go to Al Anon because they are too scared to face the fact that they do play a role in the alcoholic relationship. There was probably stuff happening in your relationship, despite how well you thought you hid it, that would trigger alarm bells for most people, but your husband probably choose to ignore it and I would go one step further and say as a child he was probably groomed to ignore it, truth be told. As alcoholics, we're not the only ones who suffer from denial. Even the AA big book says, 'the family is to some extent sick'.

I can understand that you may feel guilty and that it is 'all your fault', but I am also sure God/the higher power has forgiven you and maybe you could work on forgiving yourself too? And continue loving your husband like you are already doing.

At a meeting I use to go to, there was a poster on the wall that said 'God makes all things beautiful in his time.' It's very true.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:57 AM
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Trust is such a tricky, sticky situation, MLE. You and I have spoken about our husbands b4. I agree with all the other posters who say that you are doing what YOU need to do, but he also has a part to play, willingly or not, if the relationship is move forward.

If anything, my husband is reacting in the opposite fashion...he tends to NOT acknowledge my progress and act as if everything is peachy keen. Part of me wants him to applaud me every other minute since this issue has been so destructive, but he seems to respond "you quit drinking, that's nice, where do you want to go for dinner?" Because he is not alcoholic, it ISN'T a big deal to him to quit drinking.

For several years, I lied to him about my drinking (I said I was tired, had taken Benadryl or whatever excuse I could think of). It was sort of unspoken that I was lying, but to actually admit the truth out loud would have forced a confrontation that I think neither of us wanted to start. Now that I am trying to be honest and wipe the slate clean, I am wondering whether I should say "remember all those times when I SAID...".

I know that this is your thread and I apologize for asking for help for a problem of mine, but what do you think I should do? Bring it up or leave it alone? I'm scared of the unknown and worried about his reaction. Now that we are moving forward, I really don't want to rock the boat. Yet, I want to be honest....
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:26 AM
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Complex stuff MLE, and we've talked about it. I'm going through similar stuff.

I keep soming back to Gandhi: "Be the change you want to see in the world." That is all I can do...

Sometimes a field needs to lie fallow for a while in order to restore its fertility.

Sometimes doing nothing is a very active thing.

Sometimes distrust is an exercise in power. For some time, the man was powerless to your disease. He now knows you need something from him and it can be a political weapon. He may need time to "disarm." I'm not suggesting that is the truth, just stating a possibility.

Love is only valuable when it is freely given. I remind myself of that daily. I do not "deserve" it, I can do little to "earn" it. I can only throw it away. When we are lovable, we will be loved. But we don't get to choose who that will be.

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Old 11-05-2008, 09:07 AM
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I think one of the things I can think of to help that I could do would be to give him more time.
That is exactly what it took with my wife.... TIME!!!!! I have learned that time takes time and I can not speed it up.

I stayed sober, I worked my program, I made my amends to her and the kids by being the best husband and father I was/am capable of being.

I found that promises and apologies meant very little, actions spoke loudly and firmly. I had to be patient and just accept the fact that I could not expect her to just forgive, forget, and trust me after all of the broken promises over the years.

If you slap some one a hundred times in a row every time you see them, it will take a lot of time of you not slapping them at all for them to begin to trust that you will not slap them again.

Actions I learned really do speak louder then words, and consistant actions speak even louder. I had to let my wife have time to forgive and trust me again, no promises and no cowering, simply staying sober and being the best person I could be.
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HideorSeek View Post
....For several years, I lied to him about my drinking (I said I was tired, had taken Benadryl or whatever excuse I could think of). It was sort of unspoken that I was lying, but to actually admit the truth out loud would have forced a confrontation that I think neither of us wanted to start. Now that I am trying to be honest and wipe the slate clean, I am wondering whether I should say "remember all those times when I SAID...".

I know that this is your thread and I apologize for asking for help for a problem of mine, but what do you think I should do? Bring it up or leave it alone? I'm scared of the unknown and worried about his reaction. Now that we are moving forward, I really don't want to rock the boat. Yet, I want to be honest....
HideorSeek,

I would definitely speak it out loud. I wouldn't be able to carry around that feeling. And your marriage would most likely grow from confronting the unspoken... That's my opinion.

And you give me thoughts about the situation between my husband and me - Tennis asked if we were in marriage therapy - the answer is yes.

(And she does confront him, very gently, on the idea that he has some responsibility for the healing also. Although I don't think he hears her at all. The fact that he was so surprised that he was expected to do anything to help build trust made it really clear to me that he is missing that important concept.)

HideorSeek - you make me realize that there is an enormous unspoken issue between my husband and myself. He denies that he had any knowledge that I was drinking when I was lying to him about it. I told him it was my bipolar meds or symptoms or I was tired, etc.

But in truth, I don't know how he couldn't have known. I was so sloppy out of control drunk. All the time.I bet one of the reasons he's mad at me is that he's mad at himself. And one reason he doesn't want to try to move forward emotionally is that he'd have to confront that. Hmmm.... might have to bring that up.

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.
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