clep

Hi Everyone,

I recently posted in the relationship section as my son's dad is a recovering addict/alcoholic. He used regularly for two years and then went to rehab. During that time we and our son had no contact with him for six months during the most dangerous time of his using. I do not know how to say the effect this had on our son. I am sure most of you here have seen the same pain, confusion and anger with your own children in the situation. He went to rehab and has been doing very well except for the past couple of months.

He quit going to AA for many reasons and his codependency being the number one reason. I did not know he still felt such strong codependent feelings as he did not share that with me. Our relationship is much stronger than it has ever been in the past 8 years. The major problem standing in our way is that he is so codependent it is killing us. We are both devoted to making this work, even though at times I am ready to walk out when I am at my peak of frustration, as I am sure we all feel from time to time. He was so different when he was going to AA and I miss the person he was becoming. He feels bad about not going for about 4 months and is having a hard time walking back into a meeting.

Anyways the codependent thing has gotten to be too much to take. I used to be codependent as well but have worked out most of that> There will always be some there I am sure though.

He has decided to move to our other house until he has the problem fixed with codependency. He needs I guess to be in his own space reading and growing. He doesn't know how long for but says he wants it to be for as short a period as possible. He has not set a goal or given any kind of a time frame though. He wants our son to live with him for a week and me for a week while he does this.

I am very concerned about what this will mean for our child. I realize recovery is a selfish thing, but how selfish is the question. Our son is about to regain all of the challenges and feelings he had before. All of this so dad can deal with his issues somewhere else?

Personally I think he should just spend more time alone reading in our house, going to nightly meetings, and any other stuff that might go with it. It is not like we are splitting up and are still having family days on Sunday, like we did yesterday. I go to meetings with him and am supportive in every way I can be without losing myself as a person in the process. I don't think moving is necessary and think it is pretty bad to have the thinking that it is okay for the stability of a five year old to be sacrificed for him. I am feeling angry now just writing this and I was feeling only slightly irritated before I wrote this. He has not been recovering for the past four months, just abstaining and I feel quite angry about that as well. I feel like this crap could have been avoided in the first place.

Any other ideas that might not put our son back in the same emotional pit he was in for so long? It took so long for him to balance out, I just can't bear to see him go back.

Thanks.

denny57

Do you attend Al Anon? Does your son attend Alateen?

ToughChoices

I agree that the five year-old's needs deserve premium consideration in this.

Having said that - I am in recovery from codependency, and it was absolutely necessary for me to move into my own place in order to find peace for myself.

I don't know why your husband feels so strongly about moving. There are lots of possibilities regarding the origins of his motivation, ranging from simple to complex, selfish to selfless.

It is possible that he wants space in order to drink freely - away from any perceived judgment.
It is also possible that he has truly recognized his codependent tendencies (which are likely related to your relationship) and wants to address the issues at the core of this problem.

Whatever the reasons (good, bad, or ugly) for his decision, it is his decision. As much as you might like to change his mind, it is his life to lead, his choice to make.

You have choices, too.

I was also concerned about the effect that maintaining separate households would have on my son (he's four). I told my husband that our son would be living with me during the separation (my husband is also an alcoholic), but AH could visit, makes dates, schedule one-on-one time, etc... as he saw fit.

My son is doing very well so far. He has a stable home, sees a lot of his father, and doesn't have to listen to me cry anymore.

Is your partner willing to discuss the childcare arrangements with you?
-TC

clep

I do not attend alanon. I do not wish to go as I have found what is for me a more effective way of dealing with my emotions and challenges.

Our son is five so that is not an option.

denny57

Sorry, I thought I read his age as 8 - there are kids that age in meetings here.

Perhaps your husband also doesn't feel he's getting what he needs from AA and is looking for a more effective way of dealing with his emotions and challenges. I've learned I cannot ask of others what I'm not willing to do for myself.

I wish all of you the best of luck. Keep posting!

prodigal

I am really sorry your child is having to be put through this. I grew up in a war zone. Mom would go off and dad would leave. For days - sometimes weeks - on end. I had no idea where he went, but I felt abandoned. To this day, I still work on my abandonment issues.

Although you feel he should be home, and it is obviously making you angry that he is not, I'm sure you realize that you have no control over what he chooses to do. He may be making the wrong choice, but it's his to make. He very well may be causing emotional harm to his child. Unfortunately, his child probably does not figure into his equation. As an adult, you have the ability to not take it personally if your AH goes off and does some completely selfish, looney thing.

Sadly, a child does not have this ability. And that is a tragedy.

clep

I do not believe it is to drink freely at all. I do believe he is looking at taking care of the codependency at the core, to have long term stability and happiness. I just believe there is always a way to make things happen without our son going through something like this. Life is made up of choices available and the choices we create. I do not share my feelings for the purpose of changing someones mind, just to be heard and understood. People do what they will and I cannot stop that nor would I want to as that role only needs to be exercised with myself.

The word you used "premium consideration" is exactly the word I was thinking. I understand him having to move if I was pushing for him to be codependent with me but I am completely against it and am all for him being his own person. Healthy boundaries are the key to happiness I believe and he cannot be happy while living for me.

The relationship brings out the codependency more however it is still there with his friends, family and co workers.

I guess what you say makes sense for the best interest of our son regarding visitation....the only problem is I don't feel like taking on the role of a single parent at his whim whenever he feels like he needs some space. That does not work for our son or me.

I am not crying or upset really at all. Hubby is upset most of the time as he is trying to change me or reacting to his thinking that I am trying to change him. I just let it go by and stick to what I feel is healthy boundaries and what is good for me and our family.

Just about an hour ago he did listen to the effects that this is going to have on our son and does not want to feel the guilt that he feels it will bring on for him and the feelings it will bring on for our son. He did not think of the fact that when he will have our son he will be dealing with his own issues, the new issues the situation will be creating for our son, his own guilt due to the effects on our son, and with the juggling of visitation times and vehicle swap.

We have come to a solution that: In our home - One week he will have uninterrupted time that is his own. From the time he comes home from work the time is his. He feels that he will feel more free not to answer to me for when and where he comes and goes. He does not feel free to mow the grass even without asking me if it is okay. If I say "I am not sure why you are asking me instead of consulting with me to see if we had any plans we forgot about" he is upset saying I am controlling what he is thinking.

The following week it is my time to do what I wish. I let him know that is not required for me but he needs he says to have time equal or he will feel guilty about his time. He needs to keep score on everything and for me that is not required. If I go out and spend some money he needs to have the same amount for himself. If I take some time by myself he needs the same amount of time.

Our son will learn to respect the fact that everyone needs time and will not be negatively affected by fear and perceptions he cannot control right now. Hubby will have the time he needs to spend by himself to better himself. We will not be splitting up clothes for our son between two places as we only use the other house for business purposes. We only have one vehicle and he will have more freedom to use it for meetings and such without the running around or using transit as we have the rule that the vehicle stays with who has our son.

I am not sure how this will work but it seems to be the best solution for all involved to have their needs met without the negative affects mentioned above. We will see how it works and thank you so much for your input.

clep

I personally would not take my son to a meeting until at least the age of 12 when they have developed the ability for rational thinking and reasoning skills. I think you are right that he believes he is not getting what he feel he needs from AA.

I am an intense reader and analyzer. I have a library of self help books that I have read all of.....some more than three times. I think he sees the progress in me as quick. When I was going to Alanon and psychologists the progress was soooo slow and draining. The books and activities in them work so much better for me personally. Thanks for your post as your words are appreciated.

clep

I agree with what you have to say here and I have to find continually challenge my thinking so I can create positive emotion in myself for the sake of both our son and I. I think I am just feeling bitter about exactly what you have described. Before I brought it up this morning our son did not factor into his equation just as you mentioned. I just want to smack him sometimes and wake him up to the fact that there is more in this world than just him. Right after that I want to thank him for being in our lives and commend him on what he has done so far for himself.

We did come up with a solution I believe that will work for all involved that I posted above. It hope it goes okay. Thank you so much for your response.

lostnfound1961

If codependence is his core issue, then he should search out a meeting for codependence. I know that when I first stopped drinking I knew I was an alcoholic but something was still not quite right. I also knew I was an adult chiled of alcoholics and that stuff made a lot of sence but I still felt crazy and then one day It was pointed out to me that I should get into a CODA group. The first day, the first post OMG that was it, that was me..... Here I was this codependent who became alcoholic to hide what was wrong with me and then once I stopped drinking.... I needed to fix the real issue in order to stop the need to drink.

I agree that your son at 5 should not be in a meeting yet. I would say that 10 is plenty old enough. I remember being 10 and if only there had been someone there to help explane why my parents loved drinking more than me. Just love your son as much as you can and be there for him.
D

clep

The words you just spoke could have come out of his mouth. The feeling of being crazy, feeling like there is something wrong with him. I do agree that being in a CODA group would be so helpful. He is currently reading the book we have "codependent no more". He needs to fix the real issue and that is codependence and he is actively working on that. It isn't like he is doing nothing to aid himself and I need to be there for him, myself and our son. Patience has been coming harder by since he had lost recovery and just remained abstinent.

It is so helpful for me to hear a point of view that is much like his. It helps me to be patient and supporting. Thank you so very much!!!!!

wooforever

Hello,

I agree that the child should not be involved with AA until they can understand it.

I just do not understand why you can not let the father take the child for a week at his place. Sounds like you want to control him and how control how much he sees his son. Your controling is going to be very bad for your son also.

It sounds like you do not trust your sons father. Your son might only be 5 but he knows more then you think.

What are you really afaird of if your son goes with his father when he wants sometime to figure things out for himself. This might be a good thing for them to spend time without you or in his own place. Make him feel like he can do something on is own.

Why would you be taking on the single parent thing if you let him have his son every other week. What is the difference if you let him see his son at your place or at his place. If he does not show then you would be the single parent any ways.

You just cannot give up that control over him and over your son.

denny57

I had a million ideas of what would make xAH a better man. I didn't have any for me - go figure.

Today, when my way is not working, no matter how hard I try to force it, I take the tools I've picked up along the way and apply them to ME, not the other person.

I hope your plan works, too. Good luck!

Stubborn1

I agree with wooforever. Self help books are not intended for one to analyze themselves and act upon it. You should read self help books along with talking to a professional. I think you are taking them literally.
I know you don't want to hear you are damaging your son by your actions but you are. You are not meeting in the middle at all. It sounds like you went from one extreme of codependancy to rationalizing in.
I agree that he shouldn't be out of the house. He should work on whatever it is as a family and OMG there is a TON of labeling going on in your home. Labeling shouldn't be slung around like mud. Take out all of the labels and see if you can live together as a family for the sake of the child. If you two have become two different people then so be it but now is not the time to go soul searching when you have a child.
Your child is only five now but I can promise you he is going to grow up very fast.
I also hope your plans work.

historyteach

6 "I's"
17 "you's" or "he's"

Are we sharing our ESH?

Just a thoughtful reminder of what is helpful;
and what may be thought of as controlling.

Shalom!

clep

I find it interesting that you mention several times in your post of whether I let him take our son or not. What he chooses to do for his life is up to him and I do not let him or not let him. I simply state concerns and he makes his decisions.

It is important for me to question my weaknesses, praise my strengths and keep on working to be the best version of myself that I can be. Thanks for your input.

ToughChoices

Good luck to you, clep! This sounds like a great starting point.

Moving out isn't necessary for everyone - I tried to address my issues at home, but my partner is still occasionally active in his addiction.
His drinking activates many of my character flaws, and I found that I was unable to adequately detach from the drama. Your situation sounds quite different.

It's certainly easier (from a logistical standpoint) to live in the same home.
I hope that everything works out well for you.

-TC

Reminder

Hi Clep:


Personally I think he should just spend more time alone reading in our house, going to nightly meetings, and any other stuff that might go with it.

Is this about what you think he should do or not?

I don't think moving is necessary and think it is pretty bad to have the thinking that it is okay for the stability of a five year old to be sacrificed for him.

Is this about you think is necessary or not?

I am feeling angry now just writing this and I was feeling only slightly irritated before I wrote this.

Perhaps, you are feeling angry and irritated because he isn't doing what you think he should do?

We are both devoted to making this work, even though at times I am ready to walk out when I am at my peak of frustration, as I am sure we all feel from time to time

Perhaps, you are feeling frustrated because he isn't doing what you think he should do?

I could tell you that I think you should stop trying to control him, but then I would be guilty of telling you what I think you should do. I don't need to tell you what you should do here because I think you are quite capable of figuring it out on your own. Perhaps, he needs to find his own way in this life the same way you and I need to find our own way.

Less is more. Less control over others actually results in more control over others, if you know what I mean.

clep

Ya I used to think that way actually. I just found that after 15 years of therapy and groups with little results that was no longer working for me. Wished I would have gotten that 10 years sooner actually. It wasn't really a decision when I look back, I was just seeing what was bringing the desired results. I wanted to have good strong relationships, be happy, self confident, loving, assertive and all that good stuff. If one thing isn't working I try another and another until it brings the desired results. I now measure my progress by the results it brings. Back then I measured my progress by the amount of therapy sessions I had.

I do believe I will be soul searching till the day I die as I will always have challenges and will always be learning and growing. For me that does not stop when I have a child. Having a child compels me more than anything to continuously learn and grow to be able to model the behaviors I am striving my child to be able to have. I can't model and teach what I have not obtained.

I am interest in hearing more about the labeling you speak of. I think input from an outside source can be very eye opening and would like to understand where you get that perception from. I might have something to learn from that idea you have. Thanks for your objective input.

clep

What is ESH? Thank you for your thoughtful reminder.