JustMeInWI

It's been a long and painful road since my AH stopped drinking two months ago. It's true what everyone says on here. Just because the drinking stops doesn't mean all the problems go away.

I started seeing my counselor, and had my second session with her last Friday. After talking with her about everything that's been going on since he stopped drinking, she helped me realize what I was remaining blind to. His drinking has stopped, he says he's done for good and will never take another first drink again. And I believe him. But he is still SOOOO manipulative. And he doesn't treat me any better than he did before (other than the overly-obvious verbal abuse and treatment when drunk).

It's like my heart and mind already live in the new life I want to have where I move out and have my own apartment, we get divorced and sell the house, and I can be free from manipulation and guilt-trips and being verbally abused and arguing painfully. But my body is still stuck in the old life with him and all the problems. I just want to be free.

After a really bad argument on Saturday, I "took the day off" yesterday, packed up some books and my journal and went to spend the day at a coffee shop reading and at a friend's house talking/venting. I intentionally did not tell him where I was going because last time I did, he showed up there (in a public place) and made a big scene and started arguing and it was ridiculous. It felt SO good to take care of myself. Well, while I was gone he called all my friends and my parents to say I'd been gone all day and he didn't know where I was and he was worried about me. So then I a barrage of voice mails from everyone asking if I was ok.

The worst was when I returned my mom's call - and I only returned it because she sounded worried and I thought maybe someone in the family was hurt or something serious (she did not mention that he had called her in the voicemail). I got a 20-minute guilt trip from her saying I better not "quit on this marriage so soon" and I should have left him a note saying where I was going and when I'd be home and that she loves him as part of the family and I need to make this work. Excuse me?!?!?! She does not know what I'm going through here and the times I've tried to explain it, she just made a bunch of excuses for him. The saddest part is, she was married to someone just like him once (my dad) and they divorced AFTER my brother and I were born. At least my husband and I in our two years of marrage (and year and a half pre-marriage relationship) did not bring any children into this mess. I'm realizing that she too is an excellent manipulator and says a lot of wrong things to get people to do what she wants.

My heart is aching to be free from him, from his lies. I honestly don't think he realizes how much he manipulates (or that he manipulates at all). He is always telling me I can't leave him. That he can't live without me. That he NEEDS me. Well, I'm sorry. I want to be loved, but being needed is just too much pressure and stress. I don't NEED him. I've never NEEDED him. But I've always loved him.

I think I'm finally beginning to realize that the hurt I am allowing myself to bear is so much greater than the love I feel for him.

Should I have done anything differently? What should I have told my friends who all called me (I did not call them back)? I know what I want to do (leave), but am I refusing to give things enough of a chance (like my mom says)? He's been sober for 60 days, but he really hasn't changed much.

JustMeInWI

Oh - and I forgot to mention, this morning before work (after everything last night) he wanted to get in the bathroom and I had locked the door so I could get ready for work and go. First he cried at me "because he loves me and wants to talk to me". I told him, "I can hear you just fine through the door, please go a head and talk." Then he got angry, started banging on the door and yelled at me that I was the most cold and unfeeling person he knew (oh, if only he knew JUST HOW MUCH I was feeling and concealing). As he gave up and walked away he mumbled (out loud enough for me to hear him down the hall through a closed door), "I'm going to kill myself."

Wow. And I mean Wow. I never saw his phases of manipulation so blatently clear as now. It's sick. It makes me almost physically ill. I cannot believe I tolerated this treatment for so long WILLINGLY!

I will be moving into a friends house tonight temporarily until I find something more permanent. I want things to work, I want to hope everything will be fine, but I'm more detached now than I was when he drank. And "the little girl inside me" has been mentally and emotionally abused long enough. I need to go.

Am I being too harsh? Should I wait things out? We only started counseling two weeks ago.

Rella927

Sorry that you are going through this....
Nope they do not know the manipulation they are doing most of the time...but that does not excuse the behavior!

You are human no reason to be sorry for wanting to be loved! However being loved for the wrong reasons is not healthy-My XABF use to tell me "I need you" "I cannot live without you" " If you leave me I will kill myself" (Meaning: If you leave me I will not be able to drink as much as I do and I will have to actually spend money on things I should be paying for which I'am not because you are!) :crazy:

Be gentle with yourself.......If you have found that he has not changed is this someone you want to be with? IMHO waiting around for someone to change is not the greatest option for me-I deserve better in my life and so do you....

You are doing what you need to do to get through this and that is what matters YOU!

Rella927

Ahhh nope not being to harsh at all this is doing for YOU! Working on your recovery is what you need to do for yourself and being apart could help you do that. We do not know what the future holds....so chin up and keep moving forward for YOU! :ghug3

hadenoughnow

I don't think you are being too harsh at all. My ex was the same way, always in my face and underfoot. You don't "owe" it to anyone to put up with this sort of crazymaking crap (because that's what it is, they are miserable and want you to be in misery with them).

Bernadette

I know what I want to do (leave), but am I refusing to give things enough of a chance (like my mom says)?

Only you know the answer to this. Not your Mom. Not us here on SR.

From what I'm hearing in your posts:
You want out.
When? Well that's for you to decide.

I knew my marriage was over for about 3 years before it actually ended. I was in a similar head space as you - mulling and wondering, how was this gonna end? I had 2 small children and I just couldn't find the courage or strength to get up and go. Finally, it came to a bad argument where Ex smashed up all the nice things in the house. Something he had never done before. I packed up my 3 yr old and was like HOLY SH*T so this is how it ends???!!! I regret allowing things to progress to where a show of violence was the only thing that got my a** out of the house. Thanks to therapy I have changed so much and am (mostly!!) unafraid now to act on my gut feelings.

Also a threat of suicide is the kind of thing where I'd say "That's way bigger than me, I cannot handle that or help you with that." And I would give him the number of a psychologist or suicide hotline.

The past is gone. You are free in this moment!

Peace,
B.

isitme

You post brings a lot of thoughts into my head. First of all.. I don't think your being harsh. Your being real...to yourself. Your Mom nor anyone else for that matter can truely know what your going through and how it makes you feel. Only you can know that. Which is why only you can make the choices ahead. You don't owe it to anyone to give it another chance, or more chances. That's just silly. Your the one who matters most.

My first thought in reading all of that was that your so lucky to be seeing it before the two of you had children. Assuming you care to have any, would you want them in this situation with you? It's almost a blessing that you can see now and make these choices while they are only effecting you instead of an entier family.

It seems to me like your pretty well checked out of the relationship already. He's already put you through enough that you remain on gaurd. Even if you "want it to work" you've already started planning a life with out him. Seems to me like it might be wise to follow that path. As we've seen many times on these boards, it's no all about the alcohol and if he isn't trying to make any other changes besides to quit drinking his behavior might not end up changing that much.

Having read Too Good to Leave to Bad to Stay.. I wanted to mention a couple of things that I see from your post as links to the fact that you may be happier if you leave. (Of course only you can make that choice)

From the Book:
3. Have you already made a concrete commitment to pursue a course of action or lifestyle that definitely excludes your partner?
Guideline
If you’ve actually made a concrete commitment to pursue a course of action or lifestyle that excludes your partner, then on some level you’ve already decided that you’ll be happier if you leave your relationship. Most people who’ve done this are not happy when they stay. It’s as if you’d already advised yourself to leave. Quick Take: If you look like you’re leaving your relationship and act like you’re leaving it, you’re leaving it. You know best.

12. Do you feel willing to give your partner more than you’re giving already, and are you willing to do this the way things are between you now, without any expectation of being paid back?
Guideline
In spite of how hurt and deprived you feel, if you are still willing to deliver a concrete expression of love, without expecting anything back in the near future, there’s a real chance there’s a solid core of aliveness in your relationship. If you won’t give unless there’s a clear expectation of getting something in return, that’s evidence, you won’t be happy if you stay. Quick Take: When there’ nothing left to give, there’s nothing left at all.

4. If God or some omniscient being ( In your case.. maybe even your mom or your family) said it was okay to leave, would you feel tremendously relieved and have a strong sense that finally you could end your relationship?
Guideline
Imagine how you’d feel if God or someone, omniscient being said you had permission to leave your relationship if you wanted to. If this suddenly gives you a strong sense that it’s all right for you to end your relationship, you’ll most likely feel you’ve discovered what’s best for you if you choose to leave. Quick Take: If God’s saying “hey, whatever you want is okay with me” is all you’d need to feel it’s okay to leave, it’s okay to leave.

Good Luck.. :ghug3

isitme

Oh there was one more.. this one might not mean as much in your situation as I clearly don't know all the in's and out's. I just suspect if you say your dealing with manipulation, emotional and mental abuse that this might apply to you.. It hit the nail on the head for me and although I haven't made the hard choice to leave yet reading this tells me I've pretty much left already.

25. As you think about your partner’s disrespect, is it clear to you that you do everything possible to limit your contact with your partner, except for times where you absolutely must interact?
Guideline
If your partner is all too often too disrespectful to you and you realize that you do everything possible to limit your contact with your partner, except those times where you absolutely must interact, then the level of disrespect has spoiled the atmosphere of your relationship and you’ll he happy if you leave. Quick Take: The water’s too bad to drink when you find you’ve stopped drinking it.
Extra Outline From Book-
•Every time you think about something and it occurs to you to share you though with your partner and you don’t, you’re limiting your contact with him.
• Every time you want to ask him a question and you don’t, you’re limiting your contact with him.
• Every time you want to tell him about some small triumph or disaster in your life and you don’t, you’re limiting your contact with him.
• Every time you think of the two of you doing something together and yet don’t even bring it up, you’re limiting your contact with him.
• Every time there’s a real opportunity for some kind of intimacy and you let the opportunity slip past, you’re limiting your contact with him.
• Every time there’s a decision to be made, instead of discussing it with him you just go ahead and make the decision on your own, you’re limiting your contact with him.

If your partner’s disrespect makes you feel so unsafe that you stay away from him in ways like these, then it’s time you gave yourself permission to physically leave a relationship you’ve emotionally left already.

respektingme

My Ah tried getting sober plenty of times, and each time for the past 15 years, his arrogance/control/manipulation/resentment/blame was so intense that I ended up not caring whether he drank again or not. I knew that his behavior and thinking was so nasty that he'd be drinking again in no time. And each time, it never took more than a month or so before he'd be drunk again.

He's been sober now almost 2 months and this time is so different. He's humble. He calls his sponsor every morning and goes to AA every single day. When he gets mad, he does something physical to work it out rather than unload on me. He's "working the program" and while I'm not claiming that he'll never drink again, I've never seen him actually attempt to get "sober" like this before.

My point is, it's been my experience that if someone really wants to quit drinking, they absolutely have to be wiling to admit to themselves that they have screwed up their lives royally and need help to make things better. They didn't get where they are overnight. It's arrogant for them to think they have all the answers for themselves when they have done such a horrible job to date. Otherwise, it has been my experience that their old behaviors make them so miserable, that they wind up drinking again just to fix the chaos they have created. I think it becomes quite convenient for them to start drinking again after they've created hell in their own households. So, if you move out, boy will your AH have a good reason to drink. And that's not how it should be. He shold be working his program independent of your actions.

Botton line is, no you aren't crazy or unfeeling. I've been in your shoes. It's hell. And it's so stupid too. I mean, why bother going through the hell of trying to get sober without truly trying to get sober? It's so dumb. I never got any relief when my AH just stopped drinking, and if you are commited to seeking your own serenity, than I think you should listen to your gut and not to your AH's threats and pleas. Here's the 12 steps of AA. I didn't realize the truth in them until this last time my AA got actually sober. It's essential I believe to sobriety.

# We admitted we were powerless over alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable.

# Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

# Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

# Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

# Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

# Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

# Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

# Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

# Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

# Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

# Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

# Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

JustMeInWI

Thank you all so much for your support. I know you can't tell me what I should do. I need to figure that out for myself. I've been so busy just trying to keep my head on through all the chaos that I haven't finished reading "Codependent No More" - and the very next book on the list is "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay" (thanks for the reminder Isitme).

I talked to AH yesterday, and explained that I really felt we needed time apart because our attempts at working through things while living together was just causing a lot of stress and arguments and none of it was helping us move forward. He actually agreed with me!! And was calm about it! So I asked if he'd be able to find a place to stay, or if he'd like me to find somewhere, and he said he felt he was the one causing the problems so he should be the one to go! Wow. That was such a relief. So last night before I got home from work he'd already packed up what he needed and left! I went to an Al Anon meeting last night and came home to a quiet house and I didn't have to worry about whether my cats were going to get fed, since now I'm there to feed them

So now I have a quiet house and can read through current books and find some peace in my mind and heart and start to work through my codependency, marital strife, and anything else that my HP decides to show me along the way!

I just hope in our time apart AH will make some good choices and think through how things have really been going for us and re-program his selfish mindset. I know I can't control that, and I sure as heck don't want to try anymore. But I can still hope.

Pajarito

respektingme made some great points- especially the one about her AH being humble. My STBXAH went through outpatient treatment, but was a bear to live with from that point on. He didn't go through it for himself. He did it because I told him get help or leave. His resentment was very clear- he behaved like a dry drunk. There is a huge difference between simply putting a cork in it and working a program of recovery- whatever that may be. IMHO it comes down to one thing- being humble. That doesn't mean being humiliated- as my STBXAH so aptly put it. It means acknowledging the power alcohol has- and it's not only something alcoholics struggle with- it's something we also struggle with.

(((JustmeInWi))) Keep trying to take care of yourself- compassion, compassion, compassion. It's a hard road, and only you know what you need.

denny57

Have you read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft? I found it extremely helpful.

Sometimes the alcohol can be a very good distraction from someone else's true core.

I am the only person on this planet who truly knows what it is like to be me. Today I have confidence that I know what is best for me, at this moment. I have never been happier since I decided to listen to ME.

hbb

Although i was never married to my exabf i thought all my dreams came true the day he quit drinking. I had big dreams of an incredible life together because all he had to do was stop drinking! Boy was i wrong, he was worse than ever. I learned that just because you take the alcohol away doesn't mean this was not the true him drinking or not. We broke up several months later as things got worse and worse as time went on.

Good for you for recognizing that you deserve so much better than how he is treating you. For me, it's the loss of what i thought i had in a relationship with J, not the reality that he was who he was drunk or sober....not nice!

Learning how

Justme, I too hoped that when the drinking stoped things would be better. They are better but I am lonely. I still have a husband with the ism. My sponser says this may be his personality. He is very invasive. By that I mean he will read over my shoulder when I am on line, I haven't tried to journal in years, he would read it and get mad. He says he would not do that now but I've learned to believe the action not the words, and I only post on SR when I'm home alone.
I guess I am posting because I wish I would have listened to my gut 20+ years ago. My youngest is 17, I feel like I am at a turning point also.
I wish I had a partner to share things with....
Good luck to you I will keep you in my thoughts.