How do I help my mother and sister?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 7
How do I help my mother and sister?
Everytime I begin this post I start with a long story. Because it seems so tangled and linked, it is difficult for me to put the facts together in a narrative that makes sense. But nobody would finish reading it. And I really do need help with my mother and sister. So I think the most effective way is to simply list the facts. Maybe the answer is more simple than it seems.
I am convinced that both my mother and sister are alcoholics. I have witnessed the drinking and the denial.
They live together and often tell me stories about each other's problem but rarely do they look at their own situation.
My father was an alcoholic and died of unknown causes at the age of 48.
My brother died of a brain tumor at 46.
These two events sent my mother into drinking binges that lasted several years each and my teenage sister began to wobble at about the same time.
My sister is a transexual and practices bulemia and is anorexic.
She is incredibly talented musically, artistically and is a great writer. Her boss is really nice guy, who incidently is also a recovering alcoholic, sober for many years as far as I can tell. (I swear this is all true.)
For myself, I dropped out of highschool at seventeen and left home and have had wonderful and productive life ever since. My wife and I will be celebrating 25 years of marriage this year with our four beautiful children. I love my well paying job and I consider myself the luckiest man I have ever known.
But then again, my mother and my sister.... I love them dearly. We all get along fantastically. We love each other deeply and support each other when we can.
But I live a great distance from them and I feel helpless when it comes to their drinking.
My sister and I are now coming to grips with the fact that our mother is getting old. Her memory and body are beginning to fail and we are afraid that Alzheimer's is on the horizon. Our mother has agreed to take some test for a proper diagnosis. But this has frightened my sister terribly. She is very afraid of being alone. and she has begun to increase her drinking even more.
And I have no idea about what to do. The geographic distance between us make all this even more difficult to deal with.
Obviously and ultimately, they must deal with their own demons on their own but is there anything I can do to support them? To get them seek help and to stick with it?
What is the best way to discuss this with them? Over the phone?
My sister has once or twice agreed to go to a therapist. but then she always finishes with the phrase that the therapist don't know what they are talking about. "If they have not experienced what I am going through how can they help me? and if they have experience with bulemia, or a sex change or alcoholism or a death in the in family, then they are only trying to clear their own concience and are just as screwed up as I am."
Does anybody have any suggestions?
thank you.
I am convinced that both my mother and sister are alcoholics. I have witnessed the drinking and the denial.
They live together and often tell me stories about each other's problem but rarely do they look at their own situation.
My father was an alcoholic and died of unknown causes at the age of 48.
My brother died of a brain tumor at 46.
These two events sent my mother into drinking binges that lasted several years each and my teenage sister began to wobble at about the same time.
My sister is a transexual and practices bulemia and is anorexic.
She is incredibly talented musically, artistically and is a great writer. Her boss is really nice guy, who incidently is also a recovering alcoholic, sober for many years as far as I can tell. (I swear this is all true.)
For myself, I dropped out of highschool at seventeen and left home and have had wonderful and productive life ever since. My wife and I will be celebrating 25 years of marriage this year with our four beautiful children. I love my well paying job and I consider myself the luckiest man I have ever known.
But then again, my mother and my sister.... I love them dearly. We all get along fantastically. We love each other deeply and support each other when we can.
But I live a great distance from them and I feel helpless when it comes to their drinking.
My sister and I are now coming to grips with the fact that our mother is getting old. Her memory and body are beginning to fail and we are afraid that Alzheimer's is on the horizon. Our mother has agreed to take some test for a proper diagnosis. But this has frightened my sister terribly. She is very afraid of being alone. and she has begun to increase her drinking even more.
And I have no idea about what to do. The geographic distance between us make all this even more difficult to deal with.
Obviously and ultimately, they must deal with their own demons on their own but is there anything I can do to support them? To get them seek help and to stick with it?
What is the best way to discuss this with them? Over the phone?
My sister has once or twice agreed to go to a therapist. but then she always finishes with the phrase that the therapist don't know what they are talking about. "If they have not experienced what I am going through how can they help me? and if they have experience with bulemia, or a sex change or alcoholism or a death in the in family, then they are only trying to clear their own concience and are just as screwed up as I am."
Does anybody have any suggestions?
thank you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hi starsplitter-
Welcome to SR! You've come to a good place!
You seem to know the deal-- ultimately they have to confront their own demons...you can't "make" them get help or get into recovery. Your sister's resistance to therapy is typical - sounds like she just isn't really ready yet to change.
It doesn't matter whether you talk to them over the phone or in person. At some point you have to accept that really nothing YOU say is going to have an effect on their drinking. That being said, you cannot pretend it isn't happening or having an impact on them or you. So you can certainly share your concern, and express a hope that they will seek sobriety/recovery, but try not to have any expectations. You could find out when the local AA groups meet and just pass along the tel numbers and schedule. And then you kind of have to let it go.
If your sister lives in a major metropolitan area there may even be transgender/transexual meetings! When I lived in NYC and was going to AlAnon there were AA and AlAnon meetings for every possible stripe!
My alcoholic bro. just moved in w/ my semi-retired Mom. They are about 500 miles from where I live so it is hard. But in a way it is better than having a front row seat to the insanity. It's really hard.
AlAnon helped me enormously to come to terms with my powerlessness over my brothers (3) alcoholism and to learn to stop any enabling behaviors I had been engaging in (like lending money, bailing out, listening to BS, etc). Have you tried an AlAnon meeting?
Keep reading and posting here- there's lots of good info & people at SR!!
Peace,
B.
Welcome to SR! You've come to a good place!
You seem to know the deal-- ultimately they have to confront their own demons...you can't "make" them get help or get into recovery. Your sister's resistance to therapy is typical - sounds like she just isn't really ready yet to change.
It doesn't matter whether you talk to them over the phone or in person. At some point you have to accept that really nothing YOU say is going to have an effect on their drinking. That being said, you cannot pretend it isn't happening or having an impact on them or you. So you can certainly share your concern, and express a hope that they will seek sobriety/recovery, but try not to have any expectations. You could find out when the local AA groups meet and just pass along the tel numbers and schedule. And then you kind of have to let it go.
If your sister lives in a major metropolitan area there may even be transgender/transexual meetings! When I lived in NYC and was going to AlAnon there were AA and AlAnon meetings for every possible stripe!
My alcoholic bro. just moved in w/ my semi-retired Mom. They are about 500 miles from where I live so it is hard. But in a way it is better than having a front row seat to the insanity. It's really hard.
AlAnon helped me enormously to come to terms with my powerlessness over my brothers (3) alcoholism and to learn to stop any enabling behaviors I had been engaging in (like lending money, bailing out, listening to BS, etc). Have you tried an AlAnon meeting?
Keep reading and posting here- there's lots of good info & people at SR!!
Peace,
B.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 7
Thanks Bernadette,
Is it really so simple? Is there no way to help somebody regain their self esteem or to help them build self esteem where there never was any in the first place?
I truly believe that they must look inward first and come to terms with exactly who they are and that they must take an active role in their in their own lives. and even though I know I have my own "blind spots", I still know that I am responsible for my situation today, regardless of the good luck and bad luck that rolls my way.
And I would never want to say to my mother and sister, "Look at the wonderful way I live my life. Why can't you be more like me?" It would never work and presumptuousness of it would make me vomit.
All I want to do is help them to be comfortable with sitting in an empty, quiet room with nobody else there except their "self".
Am I looking for some impossible middle ground between Enabling and Abandonment?
thanks again Bernadette. I don't know where you guys find the time to help other people like this but I am grateful that you do.
Starsplitter
Is it really so simple? Is there no way to help somebody regain their self esteem or to help them build self esteem where there never was any in the first place?
I truly believe that they must look inward first and come to terms with exactly who they are and that they must take an active role in their in their own lives. and even though I know I have my own "blind spots", I still know that I am responsible for my situation today, regardless of the good luck and bad luck that rolls my way.
And I would never want to say to my mother and sister, "Look at the wonderful way I live my life. Why can't you be more like me?" It would never work and presumptuousness of it would make me vomit.
All I want to do is help them to be comfortable with sitting in an empty, quiet room with nobody else there except their "self".
Am I looking for some impossible middle ground between Enabling and Abandonment?
thanks again Bernadette. I don't know where you guys find the time to help other people like this but I am grateful that you do.
Starsplitter
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 4
I have been reading silently on this site for what is now a couple of years, but your letter actually made me sign up and write something. And you are right, the answer is more simple than it seems.
You ask what you can do. If you are religious, I suggest prayer. And if you are not, I suggest prayer again. It is as effective as anything else used to stop and regress progressive alcoholism.
You mention that your Mother may be suffering from dementia. If this is true then dementia will dominate the situation, and your Mother will probably forget all about alcohol at some point in time. You should treat her like a terminal cancer patient, forgive and accept her alcoholism and enjoy her company while you still can. The dementia will take her spirit long before it will kill her. And your sister will need help in caring for her as this is probably one of the most stressful circumstances to live thru. If your sister turns to alcohol in times of stress then she may be in no fit state to look after your Mother. There should be a Plan B.
The middle ground between Enabling and Abandonment I think is called acceptance. I personally have lived with an alcoholic for the last 5 years and have learnt the hard way that I can not change the condition but acceptance has given me peace.
I wish you and your family all the best.
You ask what you can do. If you are religious, I suggest prayer. And if you are not, I suggest prayer again. It is as effective as anything else used to stop and regress progressive alcoholism.
You mention that your Mother may be suffering from dementia. If this is true then dementia will dominate the situation, and your Mother will probably forget all about alcohol at some point in time. You should treat her like a terminal cancer patient, forgive and accept her alcoholism and enjoy her company while you still can. The dementia will take her spirit long before it will kill her. And your sister will need help in caring for her as this is probably one of the most stressful circumstances to live thru. If your sister turns to alcohol in times of stress then she may be in no fit state to look after your Mother. There should be a Plan B.
The middle ground between Enabling and Abandonment I think is called acceptance. I personally have lived with an alcoholic for the last 5 years and have learnt the hard way that I can not change the condition but acceptance has given me peace.
I wish you and your family all the best.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 7
Thanks Pluggerpuss.
I understand about the acceptance and have used this effectively in getting out of bad relationships.
But this is my Mother and Sister. I don't want to accept their self abuse. I am the only one in their life that truly cares and that has any chance of helping them.
I love them and they love me. I don't want to walk away.
and the worst part about all this is that I am feeling exactly as I did when my father fell into a coma and my brother was diagnosed with his brain tumor. I swore I could make a difference and neither survived.
Maybe I can get it right this time...
I understand about the acceptance and have used this effectively in getting out of bad relationships.
But this is my Mother and Sister. I don't want to accept their self abuse. I am the only one in their life that truly cares and that has any chance of helping them.
I love them and they love me. I don't want to walk away.
and the worst part about all this is that I am feeling exactly as I did when my father fell into a coma and my brother was diagnosed with his brain tumor. I swore I could make a difference and neither survived.
Maybe I can get it right this time...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
If any of us had to power to save the alcoholics in our lives, this board wouldn't exist. The msot you can do is provide them with your opinion, point them in the direction of resources and let them lead their lives.
Just as you didn't have the power to save your father or your brother, you do not have the power to save your mother or sister.
Just as you didn't have the power to save your father or your brother, you do not have the power to save your mother or sister.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hi again starsplitter!
Well you're putting an impossible load on your shoulders...trying to "get it right this time." If there was some "thing" that we could "do" to save other people from alcoholism/addiction we all would be doing it and there would be no need for this board!! All of us here want that magic key- that simple idea, to get our loved ones to STOP the insanity. Alas - so far it does not exist.
I struggled for many years with my own guilt about what was happening to my brothers. Why did I feel guilty?? I guess because, like you, I grew up in an alcoholic household. So much of my home life was unpredictable and so as a child I must have tried my damndest to control myself, to try and control the mood around my father so he wouldn't drink, and around my mother so she wouldn't rage, control my situations, my needs, my reactions, my anger etc. Whatever I thought I could control - in a vain attempt to make my father's drinking STOP. All I did was train my impressionable mind to think I could control things that were WAY beyond my control!!
What I did had NOTHING to do with my father finally quitting. He told me that. And I bet most of the alcoholics over on the SR Alcoholism board who have some success with sobriety will tell you the same thing. There is NOTHING you can do to make them stop.
Don't take that to mean you should just abandon them. Educate yourself as much as you can about addiction and codependency. Many good books listed in the "stickies" at the top of the first page of the forums here. There is nothing cruel about detaching and letting the alcoholic deal with their own life on life's terms. Because there is no need to do it in a mean way. It is not to hurt the addict that we detach. It is so that all consequences of their addiction fall squarely in their own laps. This is the best chance we have for "helping" them because they will only get sober when THEY absolutely are sick and tired of the life, and they may not reach that point if we are engaging in behaviors that bail them out (even emotionally). So detaching is one of the most loving things I can do for my brothers.
It is also one of the most loving things I can do for myself. Obsessing and thinking if I could just help them in this way or that way - or get them to read this book or that book, or get them to go to this meeting, or hear what I heard the other day about quitting alcohol, or try this diet, or this therapist or yada yada yada yada was making me as sick as my brothers! I was fooling myself that I could have any impact whatsoever.
I have a loving relationship with my brothers - as much as they can "love" outside of their DOC's. I do not treat them badly. But I work very hard to not be an enabler of this cunning disease.
Your mom has health issues, so you really do have your hands full. It's tough - when parents are aging and our own children are growing - we can really feel overwhelmed! Hopefully if everyone is being honest your Mother's doctor may have some suggestions for her that she will hear.
But it makes me sad to think that you feel responsible for your father's or brother's deaths. Those things are really much bigger than we are and out of our control. You shouldn't blame yourself and now see curing your Mother and sister of alcoholism as some kind of redemption? You can nudge them towards recovery with books and meeting schedules etc, but try not to have any expectations. At some point you do have to Let Go and Let God (or whatever force you believe is more powerful than YOU!)
You didn't Cause it.
You can't Control it.
You can't Cure it.
Easy does it--
Peace,
B.
Well you're putting an impossible load on your shoulders...trying to "get it right this time." If there was some "thing" that we could "do" to save other people from alcoholism/addiction we all would be doing it and there would be no need for this board!! All of us here want that magic key- that simple idea, to get our loved ones to STOP the insanity. Alas - so far it does not exist.
I struggled for many years with my own guilt about what was happening to my brothers. Why did I feel guilty?? I guess because, like you, I grew up in an alcoholic household. So much of my home life was unpredictable and so as a child I must have tried my damndest to control myself, to try and control the mood around my father so he wouldn't drink, and around my mother so she wouldn't rage, control my situations, my needs, my reactions, my anger etc. Whatever I thought I could control - in a vain attempt to make my father's drinking STOP. All I did was train my impressionable mind to think I could control things that were WAY beyond my control!!
What I did had NOTHING to do with my father finally quitting. He told me that. And I bet most of the alcoholics over on the SR Alcoholism board who have some success with sobriety will tell you the same thing. There is NOTHING you can do to make them stop.
Don't take that to mean you should just abandon them. Educate yourself as much as you can about addiction and codependency. Many good books listed in the "stickies" at the top of the first page of the forums here. There is nothing cruel about detaching and letting the alcoholic deal with their own life on life's terms. Because there is no need to do it in a mean way. It is not to hurt the addict that we detach. It is so that all consequences of their addiction fall squarely in their own laps. This is the best chance we have for "helping" them because they will only get sober when THEY absolutely are sick and tired of the life, and they may not reach that point if we are engaging in behaviors that bail them out (even emotionally). So detaching is one of the most loving things I can do for my brothers.
It is also one of the most loving things I can do for myself. Obsessing and thinking if I could just help them in this way or that way - or get them to read this book or that book, or get them to go to this meeting, or hear what I heard the other day about quitting alcohol, or try this diet, or this therapist or yada yada yada yada was making me as sick as my brothers! I was fooling myself that I could have any impact whatsoever.
I have a loving relationship with my brothers - as much as they can "love" outside of their DOC's. I do not treat them badly. But I work very hard to not be an enabler of this cunning disease.
Your mom has health issues, so you really do have your hands full. It's tough - when parents are aging and our own children are growing - we can really feel overwhelmed! Hopefully if everyone is being honest your Mother's doctor may have some suggestions for her that she will hear.
But it makes me sad to think that you feel responsible for your father's or brother's deaths. Those things are really much bigger than we are and out of our control. You shouldn't blame yourself and now see curing your Mother and sister of alcoholism as some kind of redemption? You can nudge them towards recovery with books and meeting schedules etc, but try not to have any expectations. At some point you do have to Let Go and Let God (or whatever force you believe is more powerful than YOU!)
You didn't Cause it.
You can't Control it.
You can't Cure it.
Easy does it--
Peace,
B.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Ha-- B-52 and I must've been writing at the same time! But I think we both mention it because the point is essential: if there was a thing we could "do" to get them to stop we all would have done it already and not be here!!
B.
B.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 4
Dear starsplitter ,
It was cruel of me to say just accept the situation. Maybe resignation is better than acceptance. I think you have to go thru all the frustration and anger of dealing with alcoholic loved ones until you get to the point of futility. You sigh, drop your shoulders your muscles relax. The adrenalin and stress hormones dissipate allowing the peace to enter when you have tried your best. However I don’t know why we assume we can cure or alleviate alcoholism. I can’t cure cancer or schizophrenia, and I think you can’t either.
Here are some things to do.
1. Research alcoholism. Search the Web, Read books. Know what you are dealing with.
2. See a Drug and Alcohol councillor yourself. They may be able to give you an honest view of the situation.
3. Harm minimization. I have heard this term used in needle exchanged programs for drug addicts where it is hoped that they can stop the spread of AIDS. I don’t know how this would translate for alcoholics, but the councillor may have some ideas. What harm minimization is trying to do is not stop the drinking but elevate the effects. So you can make sure they get their B group vitamins, they make healthy meals (alcoholics don’t often eat well), they don’t drink and drive, ect.
4. If your Mother does end up having dementia then the alcoholism will become a secondary issue. I suspect that the only situation worse than living with an active alcoholic, is caring for a relative with dementia. There is NO HOPE, you lose the individual long before they die, there is the lack of sleep, the wandering, sometimes there is aggression that comes with confusion, you are responsible for all the upkeep of the house and making meals. I think your sister is going to require a lot of help to get thru this. Here is a sad story from the Sydney Morning Herald about Margaret Thatcher who is now suffering from dementia:-
She also writes of how Baroness Thatcher keeps forgetting that her husband, Denis, died in 2003. "I had to keep giving her the bad news over and over again," she writes.
"Every time it finally sank in that she had lost her husband of more than 50 years, she'd look at me sadly and say 'Oh' as I struggled to compose myself.
"'Were we all there?' she'd ask softly."
All the best,
PluggerPuss
It was cruel of me to say just accept the situation. Maybe resignation is better than acceptance. I think you have to go thru all the frustration and anger of dealing with alcoholic loved ones until you get to the point of futility. You sigh, drop your shoulders your muscles relax. The adrenalin and stress hormones dissipate allowing the peace to enter when you have tried your best. However I don’t know why we assume we can cure or alleviate alcoholism. I can’t cure cancer or schizophrenia, and I think you can’t either.
Here are some things to do.
1. Research alcoholism. Search the Web, Read books. Know what you are dealing with.
2. See a Drug and Alcohol councillor yourself. They may be able to give you an honest view of the situation.
3. Harm minimization. I have heard this term used in needle exchanged programs for drug addicts where it is hoped that they can stop the spread of AIDS. I don’t know how this would translate for alcoholics, but the councillor may have some ideas. What harm minimization is trying to do is not stop the drinking but elevate the effects. So you can make sure they get their B group vitamins, they make healthy meals (alcoholics don’t often eat well), they don’t drink and drive, ect.
4. If your Mother does end up having dementia then the alcoholism will become a secondary issue. I suspect that the only situation worse than living with an active alcoholic, is caring for a relative with dementia. There is NO HOPE, you lose the individual long before they die, there is the lack of sleep, the wandering, sometimes there is aggression that comes with confusion, you are responsible for all the upkeep of the house and making meals. I think your sister is going to require a lot of help to get thru this. Here is a sad story from the Sydney Morning Herald about Margaret Thatcher who is now suffering from dementia:-
She also writes of how Baroness Thatcher keeps forgetting that her husband, Denis, died in 2003. "I had to keep giving her the bad news over and over again," she writes.
"Every time it finally sank in that she had lost her husband of more than 50 years, she'd look at me sadly and say 'Oh' as I struggled to compose myself.
"'Were we all there?' she'd ask softly."
All the best,
PluggerPuss
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 7
OK...
ok...
ok.
I've been staring at this page for an hour now.
firstly, thank you all for taking the time to respond to my questions and comments. I have been looking through SR and notice that you guys are quite active. This is a good thing and I can see you have helped many people.
Secondly, I joined SR out of desperation. Normally, I don't seek the advice of strangers but in this case it was definitely worth it. I got much more out of these two days than I expected. once again, thank you.
Thirdly, in the spirit of complete openness, now more than ever, my head is spinning, my heart is aching and I am very afraid. Spending time here has had the effect of "turning on the lights in a room full of monsters." The monsters are still there, as they always have been. But now I can see them. Makes it easier to do battle.
I consider myself to be a very selfish person. Perhaps is is clearer to write it as self-ish. I believe I have a strong ego, not an inflated ego. There was a time, shortly after my father died when I was in my own tailspin, when I was engaging in my own brand of self abuse. In a moment of extreme darkness and despair, I actually faced for the first time my options. The complete spectrum, starting with suicide. When I realized that I was technically and emotionally capable of that final decision, when I actually stood on the edge and looked over, I said in a very clear and steady voice, "No, I want to live."
This moment was not a complete miraculous 180 degree turn around. but it was the beginning of the climb out. Over the years I tried to get to the essence of the that sentence, "I want to live." I shortened it to "I want." In other words, I found that I had my own desires and goals and that that was ok and even good. Finally, I shortened it to "I".
I realized the "I" could not do anything for myself or anybody else until I had a clear idea of who "I" am (Or should that be: who I is? could never figure out that one). Not easy. But I began to think more about who I wanted to be. And I began to shape and visualize an Ideal Man. This guy is an amalgam of the best parts, the most admirable aspects of the people I know. Who knows? Maybe it is not possible to attain that ideal but I am trying. And this effort is the engine of my life. And I like being alone with my self.
This is why I say I am self-ish.
I tell that story so I can tell this one. Many of the parts of this Ideal Man originated with my sister and mother. My sister bravely reaches deep into her creative center and pulls out some of the most beautiful words, music, art, what have you. My mother provided us with unconditional love and still does.
Plus, they have each said or done things that I have found inspirational. These are now a part of my makeup.
So now, with absolutely no desire to be a hero, I am searching for something i can do or say that will have the same effect on them.
And, of course, I have to balance all this against caring for my wife and children. They need guidance and assistance and a role model, too. It is what I signed up for. Reading some of the other posts, I realize this dilemma is quite common.
My plan is to do the reading and research as you have all suggested, maybe even find a local AA. Plus, this weekend, I will make The Telephone Call. "Mom, Sis, I love you guys. I always have and always will. Unconditionally. But you know you have a problem that makes dealing with all the other problems impossible. I sincerely want to help you. And will, but only after you take the first step to helping yourselves. You must say to yourselves, in a clear and steady voice, "I want to live."
Bernadette, Pluggerpus, Barbara52, you have not pulled any punches so far. Am I anywhere near the mark? I know you all believe there is no magic word or button. And, in the end, I will have to live with my own decisions and choices about how I handle this. But much of what you have said has made sense.
Even though I don't know you, I value your opinion.
thanks again.
Starsplitter
ok...
ok.
I've been staring at this page for an hour now.
firstly, thank you all for taking the time to respond to my questions and comments. I have been looking through SR and notice that you guys are quite active. This is a good thing and I can see you have helped many people.
Secondly, I joined SR out of desperation. Normally, I don't seek the advice of strangers but in this case it was definitely worth it. I got much more out of these two days than I expected. once again, thank you.
Thirdly, in the spirit of complete openness, now more than ever, my head is spinning, my heart is aching and I am very afraid. Spending time here has had the effect of "turning on the lights in a room full of monsters." The monsters are still there, as they always have been. But now I can see them. Makes it easier to do battle.
I consider myself to be a very selfish person. Perhaps is is clearer to write it as self-ish. I believe I have a strong ego, not an inflated ego. There was a time, shortly after my father died when I was in my own tailspin, when I was engaging in my own brand of self abuse. In a moment of extreme darkness and despair, I actually faced for the first time my options. The complete spectrum, starting with suicide. When I realized that I was technically and emotionally capable of that final decision, when I actually stood on the edge and looked over, I said in a very clear and steady voice, "No, I want to live."
This moment was not a complete miraculous 180 degree turn around. but it was the beginning of the climb out. Over the years I tried to get to the essence of the that sentence, "I want to live." I shortened it to "I want." In other words, I found that I had my own desires and goals and that that was ok and even good. Finally, I shortened it to "I".
I realized the "I" could not do anything for myself or anybody else until I had a clear idea of who "I" am (Or should that be: who I is? could never figure out that one). Not easy. But I began to think more about who I wanted to be. And I began to shape and visualize an Ideal Man. This guy is an amalgam of the best parts, the most admirable aspects of the people I know. Who knows? Maybe it is not possible to attain that ideal but I am trying. And this effort is the engine of my life. And I like being alone with my self.
This is why I say I am self-ish.
I tell that story so I can tell this one. Many of the parts of this Ideal Man originated with my sister and mother. My sister bravely reaches deep into her creative center and pulls out some of the most beautiful words, music, art, what have you. My mother provided us with unconditional love and still does.
Plus, they have each said or done things that I have found inspirational. These are now a part of my makeup.
So now, with absolutely no desire to be a hero, I am searching for something i can do or say that will have the same effect on them.
And, of course, I have to balance all this against caring for my wife and children. They need guidance and assistance and a role model, too. It is what I signed up for. Reading some of the other posts, I realize this dilemma is quite common.
My plan is to do the reading and research as you have all suggested, maybe even find a local AA. Plus, this weekend, I will make The Telephone Call. "Mom, Sis, I love you guys. I always have and always will. Unconditionally. But you know you have a problem that makes dealing with all the other problems impossible. I sincerely want to help you. And will, but only after you take the first step to helping yourselves. You must say to yourselves, in a clear and steady voice, "I want to live."
Bernadette, Pluggerpus, Barbara52, you have not pulled any punches so far. Am I anywhere near the mark? I know you all believe there is no magic word or button. And, in the end, I will have to live with my own decisions and choices about how I handle this. But much of what you have said has made sense.
Even though I don't know you, I value your opinion.
thanks again.
Starsplitter
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Even though I don't know you, I value your opinion.
Aaaaaaaah. But you do know me!! We come to this board, strangers all, and yet our stories, our fears, our pain, our struggles are so similar that we in fact may know each other quite well!!!
You sound really good. You're putting it all out on the table and not forgetting your primary responsiblity is to YOU and your immediate family.
You say you are searching for the right thing to say to inspire them...I found this very touching:
Many of the parts of this Ideal Man originated with my sister and mother. My sister bravely reaches deep into her creative center and pulls out some of the most beautiful words, music, art, what have you. My mother provided us with unconditional love and still does.
Plus, they have each said or done things that I have found inspirational. These are now a part of my makeup.
So now, with absolutely no desire to be a hero, I am searching for something i can do or say that will have the same effect on them.
Those true and kind words would have a positive effect on ME! They might not stop me from drinking if I was an alcoholic but they would let me know someone truly values me and cares what happens to me.
Those are the kinds of words I try to keep sending to my brothers. I don't offer them suggestions for stopping drinking anymore. I am weak and cannot help getting my hopes up if I keep suggesting things - and then I end up bitterly disappointed that my suggestion (stop drinking!! which I just know would help them darn it!) isn't taken up. So I have stopped. They know what's out there. They saw my father get sober/recovered too. But I do find that sending them messages of love is always a good thing...and it helps keep ME from despair.
I didn't even know there was relief from the pain of my alcoholic family until I tried AlAnon. It really turned my head around. Saved my sanity.
It sounds like you've done some good hard work on yourself! Keep that up, that's awesome!
Peace,
B.
Aaaaaaaah. But you do know me!! We come to this board, strangers all, and yet our stories, our fears, our pain, our struggles are so similar that we in fact may know each other quite well!!!
You sound really good. You're putting it all out on the table and not forgetting your primary responsiblity is to YOU and your immediate family.
You say you are searching for the right thing to say to inspire them...I found this very touching:
Many of the parts of this Ideal Man originated with my sister and mother. My sister bravely reaches deep into her creative center and pulls out some of the most beautiful words, music, art, what have you. My mother provided us with unconditional love and still does.
Plus, they have each said or done things that I have found inspirational. These are now a part of my makeup.
So now, with absolutely no desire to be a hero, I am searching for something i can do or say that will have the same effect on them.
Those true and kind words would have a positive effect on ME! They might not stop me from drinking if I was an alcoholic but they would let me know someone truly values me and cares what happens to me.
Those are the kinds of words I try to keep sending to my brothers. I don't offer them suggestions for stopping drinking anymore. I am weak and cannot help getting my hopes up if I keep suggesting things - and then I end up bitterly disappointed that my suggestion (stop drinking!! which I just know would help them darn it!) isn't taken up. So I have stopped. They know what's out there. They saw my father get sober/recovered too. But I do find that sending them messages of love is always a good thing...and it helps keep ME from despair.
I didn't even know there was relief from the pain of my alcoholic family until I tried AlAnon. It really turned my head around. Saved my sanity.
It sounds like you've done some good hard work on yourself! Keep that up, that's awesome!
Peace,
B.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Belgium
Posts: 7
A quick update for those that are interested.
I called my mother and sister. We spoke for a long time. But they both acknowledged that they have a problem. My mother seemed resigned to the fact that she must change her behavior in order to stop enabling my sister. But I don't know if she knows exactly what that means or if she is capable of changing her behavior.
My sister was equally frank about her condition. And quickly began to say "You just watch Bro. When you come out here in November I will be a changed person. I promise you."
But I stopped her there and told her not to make any promises to me. She must make and keep her own promises to her self. I also said, as I have heard and seen mentioned so many times here, "Just one step at a time. Just get through today." I don't know if that was the best thing to say but it seemed right to me.
I also told them I would never bring this up again. I would never ask how it is going for them, progress and all that. I said they do not need to give me a progress report, etc.
This seemed strange to me and I hesitated. But from what I have been reading here it seemed to fall in line with the "right" way to handle this. As if there is a "right" way.
But I promised them that I would take any call, day or night, would put any meeting or telephone conversation on hold just to listen to them if they felt they needed to talk. My sister has terrible late night anxiety attacks and I want to be there if she needs hold hands, even if just electronically.
But the hardest part in all this is the "acceptance" part. My wife, who is very supportive, and I have been going round and round about how to handle my family's alcoholism. I promised her we do not need to talk about the problems of my sister and mother endlessly. We cannot help them directly and we are losing our own precious time together trying to solve problems over which we have no real influence. But even as I say that, with as much conviction as I can muster, my heart breaks and my throat tightens and it begins all over again. Reason, my own HP, tells me "move on and live. Your wife and kids need you. You DO have influence over the problems in your own household." But the emotional side of me tells me, "How can you turn your back on your mother and sister?"
There is another thread about Fantasy and Hope that I check out here on SR. I hope they get themselves better. But I do not have any fantasies that they will. In fact, I am very pessimistic about it. And that is where the pain and helplessness become most acute.
once again, thank you all for being the "outsiders that listen".
I called my mother and sister. We spoke for a long time. But they both acknowledged that they have a problem. My mother seemed resigned to the fact that she must change her behavior in order to stop enabling my sister. But I don't know if she knows exactly what that means or if she is capable of changing her behavior.
My sister was equally frank about her condition. And quickly began to say "You just watch Bro. When you come out here in November I will be a changed person. I promise you."
But I stopped her there and told her not to make any promises to me. She must make and keep her own promises to her self. I also said, as I have heard and seen mentioned so many times here, "Just one step at a time. Just get through today." I don't know if that was the best thing to say but it seemed right to me.
I also told them I would never bring this up again. I would never ask how it is going for them, progress and all that. I said they do not need to give me a progress report, etc.
This seemed strange to me and I hesitated. But from what I have been reading here it seemed to fall in line with the "right" way to handle this. As if there is a "right" way.
But I promised them that I would take any call, day or night, would put any meeting or telephone conversation on hold just to listen to them if they felt they needed to talk. My sister has terrible late night anxiety attacks and I want to be there if she needs hold hands, even if just electronically.
But the hardest part in all this is the "acceptance" part. My wife, who is very supportive, and I have been going round and round about how to handle my family's alcoholism. I promised her we do not need to talk about the problems of my sister and mother endlessly. We cannot help them directly and we are losing our own precious time together trying to solve problems over which we have no real influence. But even as I say that, with as much conviction as I can muster, my heart breaks and my throat tightens and it begins all over again. Reason, my own HP, tells me "move on and live. Your wife and kids need you. You DO have influence over the problems in your own household." But the emotional side of me tells me, "How can you turn your back on your mother and sister?"
There is another thread about Fantasy and Hope that I check out here on SR. I hope they get themselves better. But I do not have any fantasies that they will. In fact, I am very pessimistic about it. And that is where the pain and helplessness become most acute.
once again, thank you all for being the "outsiders that listen".
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,017
Originally Posted by starsplitter 
But the hardest part in all this is the "acceptance" part. My wife, who is very supportive, and I have been going round and round about how to handle my family's alcoholism. I promised her we do not need to talk about the problems of my sister and mother endlessly. We cannot help them directly and we are losing our own precious time together trying to solve problems over which we have no real influence. But even as I say that, with as much conviction as I can muster, my heart breaks and my throat tightens and it begins all over again. Reason, my own HP, tells me "move on and live. Your wife and kids need you. You DO have influence over the problems in your own household." But the emotional side of me tells me, "How can you turn your back on your mother and sister?"
I had a simialr kind of dilemma to this, mine was over my A brother though.
For a time every conversation I had with my parents was dominated with them asking about my brother, my parents asking/wondering how 'we' could help him, what 'we' could do. I felt myself neglecting my own children and their needs because I was so consumed with the thought of my parents worrying about my brother, and my brothers drinking.
What I did was come here and learn, just as you are, and I'm still learning, I have a long way to go. But one thing I did was to put my own children first, and I made sure my brother stopped dominating every conversation.
I still love my brother, but I can't stop him drinking.
I love my parents, but I can't stop them doing what they're going to do.
I love my kids, and they still need me strong and healthy, so I focus on me and them now. My relationship with my kids has changed for the better, and strangely, so has my realtionship with my parents. I think, although I'm not sure, that they saw me go from having my hair literally falling out, being stressed all the time about everything to someone who is calm and happy (and my bald patch grew back) and maybe thought I'd got it right.
We still talk about my brother, and I still see him from time to time as he lives close by, but we don't allow him to dominate our lives like we used to.
I don't know if that helps you, I started to ramble a bit, sorry.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
