Cupicake

I was reading a few threads this morning and remembered how much I struggled with this when I was married to my AH. "Is it cruel to share/tell him how much his actions hurt me and continued to hurt me?" And when does it become okay to share this hurt.

Once upon a time I would shelter him from my feelings because I felt he had too much to deal with in recovery or he's too sensitive with a low self esteem and I didn't want to burden him or allow him to use my feelings against me (aka...be the reason for him going out on a run and using).

I, in essence didn't want to hurt him or help him hurt me. Here lies the irony. While I was so occupied with thoughts of not hurting him, he was actively hurting me. Don't get me wrong...I'm not all about tit for tat or an limb for a limb retribution kind of thing. Rather, I'm talking about not adding to the damage he was inflicting on me with what I was apparently doing to myself by staying silent for so long.

I fought and struggled through this in my recovery process and came to the realization that in order for me to be able to properly let go and move on with anything I had to be honest with myself and with him. In order for me to let go of my codie, enabling, protecting tendancies I had to release what was slowly dragging me down. I had to not worry about what his recovery/support group advises him to do or not do. I had to not worry about what my words would cause him to feel. I had to worry about my recovery and what was best for me. I had to learn how to treat him like anyone else and not mince words because I would never with anyone else. I had to be prepared to back my words with actions otherwise they are just words.

My point is....I personally, now, don't think there is anything wrong with voicing yourself. I believe we actually do them and ourselves a disservice when we don't let them own up to the havoc their actions have caused.

(As always...just my opinion.)

caileesnana

While I was so occupied with thoughts of not hurting him, he was actively hurting me.

agreed, and we hurt ourselves most of all while trying to help them!!

Good thoughts,
susan

Chino

I work hard at keeping my side of the street clean. If someone steps over here, I'll say what I mean, mean what I say, but I won't say it mean.

lightseeker

Cupi -

Amen sister. It sounds like we've arrived at the same place. Through recovery I have learned to say things in a direct and "non-mean" way so I know that I am using the skills to speak for myself in a healthy way. I've learned what is my business and what isn't. More importantly, I've also learned what isn't someone elses business. I'm done being belittled and dismissed. I don't have the intention to hurt anyone else but I'm also not going to "tee" myself up for continued mistreatment. If my RA goes out and uses just because I stand up for myself and being respected then that is his problem not mine.

You go girl!

Abundance

Such a good thread. It really speaks to me. I was battling with the same thing when my guy relapsed and how I was not in anyway able to hide my emotional drunk. Well.. he in the end couldn't handle it either. He felt like a hostage in our relationship! All because I couldn't cope with all of his lies.

Meanwhile, I did al-anon meetings every day! And before my last relapse with him, just a few nights ago, I felt like I had this sense of calm.... like I was almost numb though. I was literally in my own hula hoop.

Do people feel like that all the time? It felt so foreign to me.

Live

I repeat to myself alot what Chino said: Say what you mean, mean what you say, just don't say it meanly.

And for a laugh....a couple weeks ago hubs thro' a little tantrum and said he just wouldn't use the laptop anymore, it was mine anyway and to change the password.
I did. I changed it to: Saywhatyoumean LOL

Impurrfect

(((Cupicake)))

As an RA, I appreciated honesty from the people who care about me. Yes, it hurt, but I hurt them....a lot.

Being in recovery from addiction doesn't mean we need to be sheltered. The "don't say it mean" is important. My dad got angry, said some cruel things, at first. But, the more I worked on MY recovery, we were able to discuss things as adults. He had a right to be angry.

I don't think holding in our feelings helps anyone. For me, the longer I hold it in, the more it's likely to erupt over something minor.

Recovery from addiction isn't just about quitting the dope. It's way more about dealing with what you have done in a responsible way and moving forward.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

Cupicake

Light...that's exactly right. It took a long time to get here and a lot of hard work and you've walked it with me a lot of the ways.

Abundance....it is a foreign feeling every step of the way in our recovery process because we are learning to take ownership of ourselves and our feelings and approaching each one on such a different level and perspective. We are saying "no" when we used to say "yes". We are standing up for ourselves when we used to back down or step back. It's empowering.

Live...I love that password. Reminders are important.

Chino...those are wise words I've heard so often. It took me a while to hone into that skill and a certain level of serenity on my part.

Cail...so sad but so true.

Emimily

i've heard that honesty without compassion is cruelty. i agree with the statement say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.

Cupicake

Impurfect...Emim....
I totally agree with the not being mean part.
But I think most of us.....well actually can't speak for everyone....
I know for myself, my biggest issue was not feeling the freedom to say anything at all. I used to always feel like I had to hold back for his sake. That was a big hurdle to get over.

Impurrfect

It IS a big hurdle to get over! I still have a tendency to "hold back" whether it's dealing with an addict or someone at work, but I'm learning (slowly) that if I'm continuously thinking about it, I need to say something or let it go. Luckily, the great people here have taught me to think about how to say something before I say it, most of the time, anyway Progress, not perfection.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

MrsMagoo

I think I'm speaking my mind and enforcing my boundaries gently but I get the same reaction from AH using that approach as I did when I was screaming and throwing things.

I need to keep reading and learning.

kidsandmemake3

Good thoughts in this thread. I am not sure about how you all have found it to be when feelings are shared with your A/RA, but sometimes I find that if I have exposed or revealed my feelings to my RA, I have ended up feeling somewhat better at the time but then later those feelings are used against me when the A. needs to lash out verbally for some reason.

I just wonder about that gray area... is it really productive to voice our feelings or are we just setting ourselves up for more hurt? This being said, I am in no way supporting keeping things inside and being a doormat, but I just wonder where the line of self-preservation needs to be...

I mean, when a person shares their feelings with another person there is an emotional investment and typically an expected outcome toward positive resolution...

but the mindset (instinctive manipulation/blame shifting, etc.) of addicts and recovering addicts often presents a false sense of safety to the other people in their lives, so that the "non-A" hopes for and somewhat expects positive progress to be made as a result of revealing true feelings:

The A/RA then gets caught up in the emotion of the feelings conversation (because they know that the whole drama is centered around their own behaviors- in other words, they are in their comfort zone as the center of the universe for the moment- they are happy and know that other people's lives depend on their behavior and they just looooove feeling that kind of power) and confirms that "sense of emotional safety"

but then (here comes the ominous music)

their instinctive survival still kicks and the A/RA will store up the information of your feelings and later have the option of using that "feelings data" as a tool to persuade you about something they want or to hurt you if they feel you need to hurt "as much as they do."

I guess I am just adding to Cupicake's observation and want to know what you all think?

Chino

I've learned I'm the only one who can give myself resolution.

Serenity Bound

Amen to that. I am personally still struggling with that, I have "always" been the type of person who holds everything in. And would never ask for help.

Today, thanks to SR and my program, I was able to reach out to friends for prayers.

I am a work in progress.

greeteachday

One thing I have learned about myself in recovery was that sometimes I would explain myself to death...I "thought" I was doing that to let my feelings out and to be open and honest, but I came to realize that in many situations it was a part of trying to control. But I had to come to the realization that I was controlling in nature, something I never thought I was before recovery. I would go on ad nauseum about how something a loved one did made me feel, because if he or she would just "get it" that they were not doing it the "right" way (my way, of course) than everything would be fine.

I don't think this applies to all situations or that we should stuff emotions; this thread just made me think about that part of my progress. I think I actually verbalize feelings less now than I used to, but it is because I have a healthier understanding of the source of my feelings, what I am powerless over and the extent of my need to work on control.

Interesting thread...it just got me thinking about that part of things and I'm kinda proud of the progress I've made in the control part of things

As far as honestly expressing feelings, I think you are so right Cupi. In my book, the biggest thing is not to have expectations that expressing the feelings will change the outcome or behavior of our addicted loved one in any way. If I express my feelings and say what is unacceptable, I just have to be prepared with my own action if the unacceptable remains.

Chino

That rang a bell with me. 10 years ago a friend asked me why I was always explaining everything. He would ask me a simple one sentence question and I would give a ten minute monologue in response. It drove him nuts. I'm sure it drove everyone else nuts but he was the first person to point it out.

I told him it was because I didn't want to be misunderstood. In hindsight, I believed if I explained everything it would determine and control others thoughts, responses and reactions

Over the last few years my now recovering daughter asked me the same thing, adding why can't you ever get to the point? I finally got to a place where I can answer a question in three minutes or less. Most times it's less than one minute. Clarity and brevity is my friend.

Cupicake

So so very true on all that was said above. I think Greet and Chino explained that gray area that Kids asked about. I think we need to gain a real understanding of the things that we can not change and accept that. I used to be like a broken record and voice things that my exah had already heard from me over and over and over and I have to tell you I never got tired of doing that because each time I said the same thing the feelings were always fresh.

There are so many things that I don't feel a need to voice myself about now because I know it won't make a difference. And for the things that I feel I need to voice myself about need to be things that I am willing to drop after it's been said and by that I mean that I need to be able to emotionally let it go especially if it doesn't make a difference. I have to approach it with the intent and purpose of making a change in my life and not his....get whatever I need to get off my chest...couple it with action and be done with it. That way there are no wonderings of where I stand on that subject.

Also...whenever my feelings are used against me I don't put a lot of weight in what is said because for the most part it is a manipulation and guilt tripping tactic. I usually just let him know that I'm sorry that he feels that way but I still feel what I feel so accept it or don't that's your choice and that he is fully entitled to his opinion.