Hello .. my story and where it has led me
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hello .. my story and where it has led me
Hi everyone. Thanks for being here and telling your stories. They have all already helped immensely. I hope my introduction is not too long. If so, my apologies and I will try to keep things shorter in future.
Who I am - A strong, intelligent, somewhat artistic, empathetic, caring, reasonably well-spoken (if I do say so myself
), capable, middle aged woman, married to an alcoholic. We are currently 'retired' from the work force, but, for me, I think that may change soon. We have been together as a couple (though never lived together till we got married) for 13 years, married 3 years. Married twice before - once when very young, one when I was in my early 30s. 9 years living independently between each marriage, and I did fine. I like my own company. I have 3 'children' - 2 are in their 30s and 1 is 23. None live anywhere near me.
I don't have self-esteem problems, except maybe physically since I am not the weight I would like to be (have hypothyroidism so that doesn't help) and I don't have what I would call anywhere near a perfect body (babies do that to you), but, I cope with that ok. If I had self-esteem problems, they would definitely be worse now than ever before, but, I feel fine on that score. In fact, it keeps me sane given the relative insanity I live with these days.
What I do have is a 'how to deal with particular situations' problem. For instance, I really need 'help' with how to temper my reactions (in the moment) when I am daily dealing with a very manipulative (he uses 'projection and assumptions' primarily as his tool of choice) 'recovering' alcoholic. He is about 1 week sober - for the first time in our long relationship. I have given up hoping he will ever even realize or care about how his alcoholism impacted me over the years, but, I dream of the day (which I stupidly? still hope might happen) when he will begin to like himself enough again that we can actually make a functioning, caring marriage out of the mess it currently is.
My judgement was obviously a lot imperfect when I met him and didn't realize he had a 'drinking problem', or perhaps more than that, even then. I didn't come from a family of alcoholics, although, in retrospect, I think perhaps my father's 'child rearing' style (rather rough) probably contributed to my susceptibility to men with 'problems'. That father is still alive (my mother died many years ago) - 91 and in a 'retirement' facility which he hates and he lays that on my brother and me all the time. We do our best to let that roll off our backs but it can be tough at times. Brother feels guilty. I don't feel guilty - I do everything I can for him and when he gets too miserable, I stop contact for a while till he calms down.
My empathy is perhaps too strong too. I care. I care deeply. My husband had what he tells me were alcoholic parents - I met his father before he died but never saw all the drinking or subsequent issues I have been told about. Right before I met my husband he had lost a son in a car accident, probably caused when his son was under the influence. About a year before we married, he lost his 2nd son to suicide. That son was both alcoholic and a narcotics addict - anything to get high and allow him to deal with 'life'. His father (my husband) was very codependent - mainly because he was feeling guilty about his own mistakes impacting that son's life over the years (divorces, etc) and because he feared so much losing another child. I was as supportive as I could be (even at one time took this son into my home until he abused that 'privilege' and had to leave). I did try at times to inject a bit of sanity where I could. I am a 'tough love' kind of person but had to realize this was not MY son and we were not even married at the time so I had to 'let go and let God' much of the time. When his son finally committed suicide, it was no surprise but of course it was very sad and I worried about my (now) husband and whether he would let that event (those events) kill him too .. even in life. So, I was trapped (by myself, by my empathy and caring) into a situation where I accepted my now husband's often nasty treatment of me (push me-pull you) and hoped it would be just temporary.
And now to today. It has not been temporary. My worry today is that, even though he finally got the message that he needs to quit drinking completely, and so far, as far as I can see, he is doing well at that effort .. the behaviours have not ceased at all, and I wonder if I should put that down now to PAW or whether it really is who he is and I never saw it because I have never known him sober before. He quacks so much and it is so self-defeating - not to mention that, of course, it hurts me (because it is not loving behaviour) and the relationship. He sets himself up for failure .. in life, in relationships, and in staying off the bottle.
We live on a property (previously owned by my aunt who died a number of years ago) which has both a house and a log cabin on it. Quite a while ago I moved out of the house because it is small and he is a gamer who spends every evening drinking and playing, leaving me not much room to do much other than clean the living room or kitchen for hours before I went to bed alone. I am also a bit of an artist so it was convenient for me to move to the cabin and set up a studio. I still occasionally cook for him but we rarely (even less now that he has quit drinking because it seems awkward to replace the wine with water still) eat together.
He usually deigns to come see me for a few minutes a day but walks in with the idea I will not receive him well. And, I admit (as I said .. how do I deal with these situations?) that, since I have been walking on eggshells for so many years now, controlled to a certain extent (till I get my head straight and just tell him to stop the bs) by his 'assumptions and projections' and am never sure what to expect, I may be looking very guarded when he arrives. Consequently, it seems that unless we only discuss the news or some irrelevant topic, there comes some moment or other when I may, just being myself, say something that hits some trigger in him that I didn't even know was there and he will immediately feel attacked or worse. Or, as happened today ... yesterday he bought some lumber he wanted to cut up today and at the time he had asked me if I would help with that and I said sure. I was pleased he had asked - I love it when we do things together - so rare. Today he walked in and said 'you don't have to help'. I said that confused me - that I thought it was already decided and that I wanted to help. He didn't need my help, he said, and he said he detected a look on my face that told him that I didn't want to help. Case closed. He left angrily, while I considered how he was hurting himself. Yes, hurting me too but himself more. He is shutting out the very person who cares about him, who he needs most. He would rather be nice to anyone who is not directly connected to him than to those who are - which, honestly, right now .. is just me. Sad.
So, I came here and read again for a few minutes. I do that a lot lately when I need strength. Not sure why it helps exactly .. although I have learned a few strategies from many of you .. but somehow it helps to clear my mind so I can, albeit belatedly, react as I should have in the first place. I wrote him an email (which is easier for both of us actually, though, he purports to hate that kind of communication) and just told him, with a bit of poetic prose to start, and the kicker at the end .. that he is quacking and doing himself a lot of harm. He will ponder that .. may take him days .. and I may get one good afternoon out of it all .. which is sad to think that is all it buys me but you do what you can.
I am considering how much longer I will deal with this .. and, as you all say, when you know the time is right, it will be right .. and though it may sound codie of me .. I still hope this can work .. in the way we both (I thought) wanted it to work, but, will that happen before it is too late .. who knows. I try to take it day by day. I so want to be loving .. but honestly I am his mirror and if he doesnt' treat me right, I do react and he uses that reaction to prolong resolution. Sigh. What a game .. what a tangled web we weave, eh. LOL Seems so silly to me. And what a waste, except if one uses it to improve oneself and to throw into one's art. That is what I do with my anger at times .. I make stuff .. not angry stuff .. but it is where I channel my frustration. All is well!
So, thank you all for your courage, for your strength, for your ideas, for your caring about others in the same situation .. and for posting here to let us all see into your lives and hearts. Keep up the wonderful work .. on yourselves .. and for us all. And thanks for reading, if you made it this far, and for letting me vent in the guise of making an introduction, and while trying to figure out by writing just how I am really feeling right now .. turns out .. I am OK!
Who I am - A strong, intelligent, somewhat artistic, empathetic, caring, reasonably well-spoken (if I do say so myself
), capable, middle aged woman, married to an alcoholic. We are currently 'retired' from the work force, but, for me, I think that may change soon. We have been together as a couple (though never lived together till we got married) for 13 years, married 3 years. Married twice before - once when very young, one when I was in my early 30s. 9 years living independently between each marriage, and I did fine. I like my own company. I have 3 'children' - 2 are in their 30s and 1 is 23. None live anywhere near me. I don't have self-esteem problems, except maybe physically since I am not the weight I would like to be (have hypothyroidism so that doesn't help) and I don't have what I would call anywhere near a perfect body (babies do that to you), but, I cope with that ok. If I had self-esteem problems, they would definitely be worse now than ever before, but, I feel fine on that score. In fact, it keeps me sane given the relative insanity I live with these days.
What I do have is a 'how to deal with particular situations' problem. For instance, I really need 'help' with how to temper my reactions (in the moment) when I am daily dealing with a very manipulative (he uses 'projection and assumptions' primarily as his tool of choice) 'recovering' alcoholic. He is about 1 week sober - for the first time in our long relationship. I have given up hoping he will ever even realize or care about how his alcoholism impacted me over the years, but, I dream of the day (which I stupidly? still hope might happen) when he will begin to like himself enough again that we can actually make a functioning, caring marriage out of the mess it currently is.
My judgement was obviously a lot imperfect when I met him and didn't realize he had a 'drinking problem', or perhaps more than that, even then. I didn't come from a family of alcoholics, although, in retrospect, I think perhaps my father's 'child rearing' style (rather rough) probably contributed to my susceptibility to men with 'problems'. That father is still alive (my mother died many years ago) - 91 and in a 'retirement' facility which he hates and he lays that on my brother and me all the time. We do our best to let that roll off our backs but it can be tough at times. Brother feels guilty. I don't feel guilty - I do everything I can for him and when he gets too miserable, I stop contact for a while till he calms down.
My empathy is perhaps too strong too. I care. I care deeply. My husband had what he tells me were alcoholic parents - I met his father before he died but never saw all the drinking or subsequent issues I have been told about. Right before I met my husband he had lost a son in a car accident, probably caused when his son was under the influence. About a year before we married, he lost his 2nd son to suicide. That son was both alcoholic and a narcotics addict - anything to get high and allow him to deal with 'life'. His father (my husband) was very codependent - mainly because he was feeling guilty about his own mistakes impacting that son's life over the years (divorces, etc) and because he feared so much losing another child. I was as supportive as I could be (even at one time took this son into my home until he abused that 'privilege' and had to leave). I did try at times to inject a bit of sanity where I could. I am a 'tough love' kind of person but had to realize this was not MY son and we were not even married at the time so I had to 'let go and let God' much of the time. When his son finally committed suicide, it was no surprise but of course it was very sad and I worried about my (now) husband and whether he would let that event (those events) kill him too .. even in life. So, I was trapped (by myself, by my empathy and caring) into a situation where I accepted my now husband's often nasty treatment of me (push me-pull you) and hoped it would be just temporary.
And now to today. It has not been temporary. My worry today is that, even though he finally got the message that he needs to quit drinking completely, and so far, as far as I can see, he is doing well at that effort .. the behaviours have not ceased at all, and I wonder if I should put that down now to PAW or whether it really is who he is and I never saw it because I have never known him sober before. He quacks so much and it is so self-defeating - not to mention that, of course, it hurts me (because it is not loving behaviour) and the relationship. He sets himself up for failure .. in life, in relationships, and in staying off the bottle.
We live on a property (previously owned by my aunt who died a number of years ago) which has both a house and a log cabin on it. Quite a while ago I moved out of the house because it is small and he is a gamer who spends every evening drinking and playing, leaving me not much room to do much other than clean the living room or kitchen for hours before I went to bed alone. I am also a bit of an artist so it was convenient for me to move to the cabin and set up a studio. I still occasionally cook for him but we rarely (even less now that he has quit drinking because it seems awkward to replace the wine with water still) eat together.
He usually deigns to come see me for a few minutes a day but walks in with the idea I will not receive him well. And, I admit (as I said .. how do I deal with these situations?) that, since I have been walking on eggshells for so many years now, controlled to a certain extent (till I get my head straight and just tell him to stop the bs) by his 'assumptions and projections' and am never sure what to expect, I may be looking very guarded when he arrives. Consequently, it seems that unless we only discuss the news or some irrelevant topic, there comes some moment or other when I may, just being myself, say something that hits some trigger in him that I didn't even know was there and he will immediately feel attacked or worse. Or, as happened today ... yesterday he bought some lumber he wanted to cut up today and at the time he had asked me if I would help with that and I said sure. I was pleased he had asked - I love it when we do things together - so rare. Today he walked in and said 'you don't have to help'. I said that confused me - that I thought it was already decided and that I wanted to help. He didn't need my help, he said, and he said he detected a look on my face that told him that I didn't want to help. Case closed. He left angrily, while I considered how he was hurting himself. Yes, hurting me too but himself more. He is shutting out the very person who cares about him, who he needs most. He would rather be nice to anyone who is not directly connected to him than to those who are - which, honestly, right now .. is just me. Sad.
So, I came here and read again for a few minutes. I do that a lot lately when I need strength. Not sure why it helps exactly .. although I have learned a few strategies from many of you .. but somehow it helps to clear my mind so I can, albeit belatedly, react as I should have in the first place. I wrote him an email (which is easier for both of us actually, though, he purports to hate that kind of communication) and just told him, with a bit of poetic prose to start, and the kicker at the end .. that he is quacking and doing himself a lot of harm. He will ponder that .. may take him days .. and I may get one good afternoon out of it all .. which is sad to think that is all it buys me but you do what you can.
I am considering how much longer I will deal with this .. and, as you all say, when you know the time is right, it will be right .. and though it may sound codie of me .. I still hope this can work .. in the way we both (I thought) wanted it to work, but, will that happen before it is too late .. who knows. I try to take it day by day. I so want to be loving .. but honestly I am his mirror and if he doesnt' treat me right, I do react and he uses that reaction to prolong resolution. Sigh. What a game .. what a tangled web we weave, eh. LOL Seems so silly to me. And what a waste, except if one uses it to improve oneself and to throw into one's art. That is what I do with my anger at times .. I make stuff .. not angry stuff .. but it is where I channel my frustration. All is well!
So, thank you all for your courage, for your strength, for your ideas, for your caring about others in the same situation .. and for posting here to let us all see into your lives and hearts. Keep up the wonderful work .. on yourselves .. and for us all.
And thanks for reading, if you made it this far, and for letting me vent in the guise of making an introduction, and while trying to figure out by writing just how I am really feeling right now .. turns out .. I am OK!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
Originally Posted by Chiasma 
He usually deigns to come see me for a few minutes a day but walks in with the idea I will not receive him well. And, I admit (as I said .. how do I deal with these situations?) that, since I have been walking on eggshells for so many years now, controlled to a certain extent (till I get my head straight and just tell him to stop the bs) by his 'assumptions and projections' and am never sure what to expect, I may be looking very guarded when he arrives. Consequently, it seems that unless we only discuss the news or some irrelevant topic, there comes some moment or other when I may, just being myself, say something that hits some trigger in him that I didn't even know was there and he will immediately feel attacked or worse. Or, as happened today ... yesterday he bought some lumber he wanted to cut up today and at the time he had asked me if I would help with that and I said sure. I was pleased he had asked - I love it when we do things together - so rare. Today he walked in and said 'you don't have to help'. I said that confused me - that I thought it was already decided and that I wanted to help. He didn't need my help, he said, and he said he detected a look on my face that told him that I didn't want to help. Case closed. He left angrily, while I considered how he was hurting himself.
Sure, it used to confuse me. Then I realized the topics of our conversation became more and more narrow. Now it's only about groceries -- what's for dinner, would you like rice or a potato with the chicken, etc.
You are a thinker. I'd venture to guess you analyze things a lot. You live inside of your head a lot. You try to figure out the why's to what is happening.
He has ONE WEEK sober. His brain is scrambled eggs. I doubt much is going to make sense to him. He is acting in the manner with which he is familar.
As are you.
So how about you? Have you attended Al-anon and/or sought counseling? You are discussing your interactions with him and discussing him. I'm interested in what's going on inside of you, REGARDLESS of what may or may not be going on inside of him.
Please let me know what you are feeling. He may be into mind-reading; he may not give a good cahoot what you're really thinking. I'd like to know where you feel you are in YOUR life.
Sorry if I'm coming across in a blunt or seemingly heartless manner. I assure you I am not. I want to help in any way I can.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 2
Thanks, Prodigal. To a certain extent, you have me pegged.
Yes, I am an analyst by nature - I come from a family of lawyers and while I am not a legal beagle myself, I am 'trained' in that style of life management I suppose.
So I am a thinker (and a talker and a writer) unfortunately. However, I am trying to overcome that in this instance and not spend much time 'anticipating' problems or even good things, but letting things just happen as they may. I am though well read enough to know what PAW is, and while I know that it is probably too early to tell whether that will be a long term or short term issue with us/him, this has gotten much worse again the past few days .. has been building up .. and so it is a concern, since, my reading tells me it can set in as early as 1 week into sobriety and may just get worse after that. I hope it doesn't/isn't'/won't .. believe me .. I hope not!
I do know I cannot truly 'understand' alcoholism or its effects on its user. I am not the alcoholic in this case. I am however a smoker and I do understand how it feels to quit that substance. And how hard it is. And how I deal with it. I also know that even if I am cranky, I do my best not to inflict that on others and that I care more about how they feel than I do about how I do when I know I am cranky. I probably overcompensate in that respect. He does the opposite.
What I want to do is stop the 'treadmill' (of being what I might term at times, abused) and get off. My lumber cutting example was mild and I was just trying to use a short illustration, probably not very successfully. I know he can, even when I recognize what is happening, get me going and I don't always see the right way to diffuse the situation in the moment. I am not the initiator though .. never have been.
I know I am not the cause of the way my husband treats me, but, if I can mitigate how I get treated, without being false and doing something like just hugging him tightly as though it was all ok, then all would be more pleasant while I wait to see whether who he is is what he has always been (in other words, a definite lost cause) or whether this is part of the disease and it will get better in time.
Having spent 13 years already on this treadmill, I know I may be getting ahead of myself to even hope for improvement, but, some days .. dreams .. are nice to have, no? I would rather not be angry, I would rather just find a way to 'react' to all things to cut the conversation short before it degrades too far. He is very intelligent too .. and he detects when I just smile and say something like .. that's fine, hon .. as being not my true feelings .. and that makes it all worse. He then huffs and accuses me of whatever it is he wants to accuse me of, and walks off.
(Rhetorical question) So what does one do? I have to find my own way, I know .. but, really all I was saying was .. it is tough some days. I just need to learn the key to protecting myself from these things without causing even more damage by feeding into his low self-esteem problems so that he tries even more to hurt me and himself.
I am 'detached' from the disease itself - I don't participate there and I let him handle his own consequences .. which unfortunately have been few so far (since he drank alone in the house and didn't go out when drinking so he has no DWIs and the bit of family he has are far away and we are in a new place now where he knows no one - his only 'friends' are online and most of them are drunk too I think) ... other than he has lost his wife right now to a great extent .. which doesn't seem to bother him. I know the score.
Thanks for your reply. I have not yet gone to Alanon. I am still thinking about whether that is the best approach for me to deal with all this, but, I know it works for many. Arghhh .. too long again. I am sorry. I knew I should just have kept reading, rather than posting. lol
Yes, I am an analyst by nature - I come from a family of lawyers and while I am not a legal beagle myself, I am 'trained' in that style of life management I suppose.
So I am a thinker (and a talker and a writer) unfortunately. However, I am trying to overcome that in this instance and not spend much time 'anticipating' problems or even good things, but letting things just happen as they may. I am though well read enough to know what PAW is, and while I know that it is probably too early to tell whether that will be a long term or short term issue with us/him, this has gotten much worse again the past few days .. has been building up .. and so it is a concern, since, my reading tells me it can set in as early as 1 week into sobriety and may just get worse after that. I hope it doesn't/isn't'/won't .. believe me .. I hope not!
I do know I cannot truly 'understand' alcoholism or its effects on its user. I am not the alcoholic in this case. I am however a smoker and I do understand how it feels to quit that substance. And how hard it is. And how I deal with it. I also know that even if I am cranky, I do my best not to inflict that on others and that I care more about how they feel than I do about how I do when I know I am cranky. I probably overcompensate in that respect. He does the opposite.
What I want to do is stop the 'treadmill' (of being what I might term at times, abused) and get off. My lumber cutting example was mild and I was just trying to use a short illustration, probably not very successfully. I know he can, even when I recognize what is happening, get me going and I don't always see the right way to diffuse the situation in the moment. I am not the initiator though .. never have been.
I know I am not the cause of the way my husband treats me, but, if I can mitigate how I get treated, without being false and doing something like just hugging him tightly as though it was all ok, then all would be more pleasant while I wait to see whether who he is is what he has always been (in other words, a definite lost cause) or whether this is part of the disease and it will get better in time.
Having spent 13 years already on this treadmill, I know I may be getting ahead of myself to even hope for improvement, but, some days .. dreams .. are nice to have, no? I would rather not be angry, I would rather just find a way to 'react' to all things to cut the conversation short before it degrades too far. He is very intelligent too .. and he detects when I just smile and say something like .. that's fine, hon .. as being not my true feelings .. and that makes it all worse. He then huffs and accuses me of whatever it is he wants to accuse me of, and walks off.
(Rhetorical question) So what does one do? I have to find my own way, I know .. but, really all I was saying was .. it is tough some days. I just need to learn the key to protecting myself from these things without causing even more damage by feeding into his low self-esteem problems so that he tries even more to hurt me and himself.
I am 'detached' from the disease itself - I don't participate there and I let him handle his own consequences .. which unfortunately have been few so far (since he drank alone in the house and didn't go out when drinking so he has no DWIs and the bit of family he has are far away and we are in a new place now where he knows no one - his only 'friends' are online and most of them are drunk too I think) ... other than he has lost his wife right now to a great extent .. which doesn't seem to bother him. I know the score.
Thanks for your reply. I have not yet gone to Alanon. I am still thinking about whether that is the best approach for me to deal with all this, but, I know it works for many. Arghhh .. too long again. I am sorry. I knew I should just have kept reading, rather than posting. lol
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
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You are married to an isolator. So am I. What worked for me was to leave the house. I simply refused to engage in any manner. I spent literally hours every weekend in a bookstore. That is about the only "culture" to be found in this hick town.
I "lived" in a bookstore for a year. Now I can sit at home posting this while AH is passed out drunk on the living room couch. It no longer fazes me. Once he somehow figured out I didn't want to be bothered and had a boundary firmly in place, he quit bugging me.
In Al-Anon it is suggested to newcomers that they try six meetings before deciding whether it works for them or not. How about giving it a try? There's a lot of support in those rooms. It will also get you out of the house.
This is what worked for me. My AH wasn't going to go hang out in a bar; he has no friends. So it was up to me to leave the house for hours on end. Not the perfect solution, but it eventually got me off the merry-go-round.
I "lived" in a bookstore for a year. Now I can sit at home posting this while AH is passed out drunk on the living room couch. It no longer fazes me. Once he somehow figured out I didn't want to be bothered and had a boundary firmly in place, he quit bugging me.
In Al-Anon it is suggested to newcomers that they try six meetings before deciding whether it works for them or not. How about giving it a try? There's a lot of support in those rooms. It will also get you out of the house.
This is what worked for me. My AH wasn't going to go hang out in a bar; he has no friends. So it was up to me to leave the house for hours on end. Not the perfect solution, but it eventually got me off the merry-go-round.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
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jmo It appears to me he needs professional help with his poor self esteem. You simply cannot be responsible for it. I have heard the definition of self esteem as the reputation one has with oneself.
Are you isolating also?
Are you isolating also?
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