Refuse To Give Up Ground
rozied
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 1,292
Refuse To Give Up Ground
I guess it has finally come to this power struggle btw my son & I. From the time he was a little boy he has been very close to my parents. I was 19 when I had him & I was in a very bad marriage with my 1st husband. My Mom had too big a part in rising Joey. If I said no about something he would go to Nana & get what he wanted. Through the yrs this continued.
I had seen what happened to my 1st husband by people bailing him out so I always told my 2 boys if you get into trouble with the law I will not bail you out. Lord I must have said that to them 1000 times. So the 1st time Joey was arrested he didn't even call me, he called my parents. I called them & begged them not to bail him out & they promised me they wouldn't. The very next morning I called them & they weren't home They had gone to bail him out. This pattern repeated itself many, many times. Whenever I told him no my parents said yes.
My son because of this will always say " No matter what you do it doesn't matter because Nana & Pop listen to me, not to you." He has bragged about the power he has over my parents to everyone. I even recieved a letter from another inmate telling me my son brags about how he conns the family out of money. It made this other guy sick so he wrote to me.
Well now my parents are 88 & have finally had enough. I think my son knows that this decision to give him money for a lawyer rests with me. I have been fighting with my parents over there enabling for 20yrs so why would I go against everything I have learned about addiction and say yes.
I would have to be crazy or too soft to tell my son no. I cannot say yes to him because it is what he wants. Look what getting & doing what he wants has done to him. I think no matter how old we get our parents many times can see more just because they are older. His decisions have brought him & us nothing but grief. For the 1st time he must accept the consequences of his actions. I know it is tough. Jim always said the longer it takes the harder the fall would be when it happens. My heart is broken over all of this.
Oh thanks for letting me vent. I know its the same old thing. It is so very hard to say no to him cuz he precieves it as hurtful.
I had seen what happened to my 1st husband by people bailing him out so I always told my 2 boys if you get into trouble with the law I will not bail you out. Lord I must have said that to them 1000 times. So the 1st time Joey was arrested he didn't even call me, he called my parents. I called them & begged them not to bail him out & they promised me they wouldn't. The very next morning I called them & they weren't home They had gone to bail him out. This pattern repeated itself many, many times. Whenever I told him no my parents said yes.
My son because of this will always say " No matter what you do it doesn't matter because Nana & Pop listen to me, not to you." He has bragged about the power he has over my parents to everyone. I even recieved a letter from another inmate telling me my son brags about how he conns the family out of money. It made this other guy sick so he wrote to me.
Well now my parents are 88 & have finally had enough. I think my son knows that this decision to give him money for a lawyer rests with me. I have been fighting with my parents over there enabling for 20yrs so why would I go against everything I have learned about addiction and say yes.
I would have to be crazy or too soft to tell my son no. I cannot say yes to him because it is what he wants. Look what getting & doing what he wants has done to him. I think no matter how old we get our parents many times can see more just because they are older. His decisions have brought him & us nothing but grief. For the 1st time he must accept the consequences of his actions. I know it is tough. Jim always said the longer it takes the harder the fall would be when it happens. My heart is broken over all of this.
Oh thanks for letting me vent. I know its the same old thing. It is so very hard to say no to him cuz he precieves it as hurtful.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 471
Rozied
My heart goes out to you. It may be the same stuff, but it's always raw, fresh and painful for us. I think you are doing the right thing by not providing a lawyer. I agonized about this myself with my niece (she was dealing drugs and facing 12 years in prison) but didn't provide the lawyer. She too was angry with me, but it was the right thing. She got what I believe was the right support and sentence (drug treatment, mental health treatment and a work release program), and she still went back to drugs after she got out (and is back in jail now). I'm glad I didn't spend a ton of money just for her to go back to drugs.
What I discovered is that the prosecutors, judges and public defenders all know each other and collaborate on what to do. they all have a huge amount of experience with addicts - both the ones who get better and the ones who don't. I believe that private lawyers do more harm than good, getting addicts off the hook easy and prolonging thier disease.
And, addicts only appreciate what we do in setting boundaries after they have geen in recovery a long time. So - I hope that you are able to know in your heart you are doing the right thing, even if it is not understood or appreciated.
God Bless...
My heart goes out to you. It may be the same stuff, but it's always raw, fresh and painful for us. I think you are doing the right thing by not providing a lawyer. I agonized about this myself with my niece (she was dealing drugs and facing 12 years in prison) but didn't provide the lawyer. She too was angry with me, but it was the right thing. She got what I believe was the right support and sentence (drug treatment, mental health treatment and a work release program), and she still went back to drugs after she got out (and is back in jail now). I'm glad I didn't spend a ton of money just for her to go back to drugs.
What I discovered is that the prosecutors, judges and public defenders all know each other and collaborate on what to do. they all have a huge amount of experience with addicts - both the ones who get better and the ones who don't. I believe that private lawyers do more harm than good, getting addicts off the hook easy and prolonging thier disease.
And, addicts only appreciate what we do in setting boundaries after they have geen in recovery a long time. So - I hope that you are able to know in your heart you are doing the right thing, even if it is not understood or appreciated.
God Bless...
rozied
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 1,292
Dear Troubledone, Thank you for your thoughtful post & for sharing your experiences with me. Any money used to help an addict is such a waste. Our family has spent enough money & are tired of throwing good money after bad.
Everyone has agreed helping him again is the wrong thing to do & as some have put it if you do. what then. I'll tell you what it would be the same old thing, using, stealing, etc etc. Nothing changes if nothing changes!!!
God Bless
Everyone has agreed helping him again is the wrong thing to do & as some have put it if you do. what then. I'll tell you what it would be the same old thing, using, stealing, etc etc. Nothing changes if nothing changes!!!
God Bless
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fort Wayne IN
Posts: 284
It is good that you vent and get it all out. Often we know the answer but just need to vent and have someone who will listen. What I think is great about this site is that you are not told what you want to hear but what you need to hear.
Your son is a grown man and grown men/women take care of themselves. We get ourselves in trouble we get our selves out. That is called -being a responsible adult.
Your son need to learn that he is responsible.
Stay strong and stick to your decisions,
Unfortuneately, I also used to do the same thing with my grandma. I would tattle on my mom to her and enjoyed "getting her in trouble" . But that was when I was a little girl.
I hope your day will be full of peace. God bless.
Your son is a grown man and grown men/women take care of themselves. We get ourselves in trouble we get our selves out. That is called -being a responsible adult.
Your son need to learn that he is responsible.
Stay strong and stick to your decisions,
Unfortuneately, I also used to do the same thing with my grandma. I would tattle on my mom to her and enjoyed "getting her in trouble" . But that was when I was a little girl.
I hope your day will be full of peace. God bless.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 702
Rozied,
Sending you hugs and extra prayers, we all can use them.
Saying NO is so hard for us mom's since we want our kids (no matter the age) to be happy. No is the hardest word to say for so many of us, I know it is for me.
You are doing great your recovery is really working for you,
Hugs
Sending you hugs and extra prayers, we all can use them.
Saying NO is so hard for us mom's since we want our kids (no matter the age) to be happy. No is the hardest word to say for so many of us, I know it is for me.
You are doing great your recovery is really working for you,
Hugs
Leap of Faith Survivor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
Rozied, I have been following your story and I am happy for you that your family are finally all 'on the same page', and I appreciate how difficult it has been for you to take this next right step...hopefully the time will come , down the road, when your son will be able to thank you for your tough love...hugs, grateful
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 494
I too finally said "no" to my g/f (in part becaue of the may replies you gave me 
). It was real hard for me, and I am second guessing myself and wanting to take it back all the time. Deep down though, I know it was the right thing to do. Still doesn't make it any easier. Keep strong and hopefully sooner than later you will see the positive outcome of your decision.
). It was real hard for me, and I am second guessing myself and wanting to take it back all the time. Deep down though, I know it was the right thing to do. Still doesn't make it any easier. Keep strong and hopefully sooner than later you will see the positive outcome of your decision.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,287
Sending you prayers for strength. Now that your parents are finally saying no to him as well, it seems like this is the most important time for you to stick to your "guns" and finally let him feel the consequences of his actions without your parents there to help. I know it hurts, but we are here anytime you need to share.....Big virtual hugs coming your way.
StrivingToThrive
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 425
Rozied
We are all journeying together here. Its a tough road with successes and incredible pain. I too am so glad we have each other.
I " bailed" my son out so many times before I finally realized it wasn't helping and in fact was hurting us both.
For me, my mistake didn't begin with paying big bucks for a lawyer, but began more slowly like paying those insufficient fund charges, and other small debts, then paying $150 for bailing out of jail on an underage drinking charge, Then helping him get into another apartment "away" from all the bad influences. Each time it seemed like I was helping because I was sure I was stopping something "bigger" from happening. I was like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dike. So sure I was stopping a disaster without looking ahead and thinking about where it was taking us both.
I didn't know any better. If I hadn't discovered Al-anon and CODA, I would still be there thinking that my fixing was showing love and that I was only preventing bigger disasters.
When my son finally was arrested for transporting pot he was a passenger in the car and was getting a ride from his friend. He actually was not involved in that transport and had a chance to walk away but stayed with the car, then the officer discovered the dope in the trunk and he was arrested too. (that's how I know he really didn't know the pot was in the trunk or he would have bailed when the cop said he was free to go!)
But I knew it was just about timing that day for him.
He was involved in that business and on another day it could have been him driving. And so for once I saw the big picture and didn't get pulled into the victim stories.
He too tried to simplify the issue when he then asked me for help in "bailing" him out and paying for a lawyer etc. He was 'innocent' so I should help him. If he had a good lawyer he could beat this. He was probably right.
but I too thought
FINALLY!) " What then?"
Will he have learned the hard lesson? Will reality finally get a chance to get faced head-on without me softening it's blow? Would that knock that bravado down that seems to think he is standing up for a great cause? ( He justifies his actions because he calls himself a marijuana activist, and has said he'll take whatever comes his way for the cause.) So be it.
So I said, "No" to him. It wasn't right. These are not my beliefs but his to stand-up for or deal with. He was scared and crying and it was VERY HARD but I stuck to it. Not without losing lots of sleep.!
He did get released OR-ed until his trial. So for him, some fear went away so then..
He was very mad, and tried the guilt. Even tried to question my parenting in his childhood. ( good-one) Tried the cutting me out of his life speech. but I stayed firm.
I had a mantra that I always seemed to be repeating then: "I love you, You are better than this, I am here for you but I will not be involved in any part of this side of your life. You have to take care of this on your own."
I stayed firm, stayed loving, and he eventually got I wasn't changing my mind and today respects that. ( Might not agree with me but respects me).
He got probation for his part but a felony looms if its broken.
I have come to terms ( mostly) to the fact that jail time is in his future. Because his beliefs haven't changed. Occasionally I see signs that he is thinking/questioning this life style but change isn't there. He's not ready. He knows I am there when he is ready.
I am so happy I didn't put out that kind of money for a lawyer and in fact my boundaries when it comes to my wallet are up high and locked! So much so he doesn't even ask anymore.
Its not that I don't think my son is worth it. He is worth giving up everything I own if it would help/change/cure. But it won't. My money and things have only hurt him. I have learned its his problem to fix and because of this I have more money to spend on me!
But I did have to suffer the possibility that he was going to cut me out of his life and that was the hardest part.
Looking back I am saddened that I /we had got to a place where I believed that money was all he wanted from me.
We are in a better place mother/son relationship wise and I think it's because I have changed and stopped looking for his change. (again, mostly!)I have accepted," it is what it is." I am focusing on me and believing God had a plan for my son if I JUST STAY OUT OF THE WAY!
We are all journeying together here. Its a tough road with successes and incredible pain. I too am so glad we have each other.
I " bailed" my son out so many times before I finally realized it wasn't helping and in fact was hurting us both.
For me, my mistake didn't begin with paying big bucks for a lawyer, but began more slowly like paying those insufficient fund charges, and other small debts, then paying $150 for bailing out of jail on an underage drinking charge, Then helping him get into another apartment "away" from all the bad influences. Each time it seemed like I was helping because I was sure I was stopping something "bigger" from happening. I was like the little dutch boy with his finger in the dike. So sure I was stopping a disaster without looking ahead and thinking about where it was taking us both.
I didn't know any better. If I hadn't discovered Al-anon and CODA, I would still be there thinking that my fixing was showing love and that I was only preventing bigger disasters.
When my son finally was arrested for transporting pot he was a passenger in the car and was getting a ride from his friend. He actually was not involved in that transport and had a chance to walk away but stayed with the car, then the officer discovered the dope in the trunk and he was arrested too. (that's how I know he really didn't know the pot was in the trunk or he would have bailed when the cop said he was free to go!)
But I knew it was just about timing that day for him.
He was involved in that business and on another day it could have been him driving. And so for once I saw the big picture and didn't get pulled into the victim stories.
He too tried to simplify the issue when he then asked me for help in "bailing" him out and paying for a lawyer etc. He was 'innocent' so I should help him. If he had a good lawyer he could beat this. He was probably right.
but I too thought
FINALLY!) " What then?" Will he have learned the hard lesson? Will reality finally get a chance to get faced head-on without me softening it's blow? Would that knock that bravado down that seems to think he is standing up for a great cause? ( He justifies his actions because he calls himself a marijuana activist, and has said he'll take whatever comes his way for the cause.) So be it.
So I said, "No" to him. It wasn't right. These are not my beliefs but his to stand-up for or deal with. He was scared and crying and it was VERY HARD but I stuck to it. Not without losing lots of sleep.!
He did get released OR-ed until his trial. So for him, some fear went away so then..
He was very mad, and tried the guilt. Even tried to question my parenting in his childhood. ( good-one) Tried the cutting me out of his life speech. but I stayed firm.
I had a mantra that I always seemed to be repeating then: "I love you, You are better than this, I am here for you but I will not be involved in any part of this side of your life. You have to take care of this on your own."
I stayed firm, stayed loving, and he eventually got I wasn't changing my mind and today respects that. ( Might not agree with me but respects me).
He got probation for his part but a felony looms if its broken.
I have come to terms ( mostly) to the fact that jail time is in his future. Because his beliefs haven't changed. Occasionally I see signs that he is thinking/questioning this life style but change isn't there. He's not ready. He knows I am there when he is ready.
I am so happy I didn't put out that kind of money for a lawyer and in fact my boundaries when it comes to my wallet are up high and locked! So much so he doesn't even ask anymore.
Its not that I don't think my son is worth it. He is worth giving up everything I own if it would help/change/cure. But it won't. My money and things have only hurt him. I have learned its his problem to fix and because of this I have more money to spend on me!
But I did have to suffer the possibility that he was going to cut me out of his life and that was the hardest part.
Looking back I am saddened that I /we had got to a place where I believed that money was all he wanted from me.
We are in a better place mother/son relationship wise and I think it's because I have changed and stopped looking for his change. (again, mostly!)I have accepted," it is what it is." I am focusing on me and believing God had a plan for my son if I JUST STAY OUT OF THE WAY!
rozied
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 1,292
Thank you CeCe for your post. I agree with you 100% if your son believes so strongly marijuana should be legal & that there is nothing wrong with it, let him defend his beliefs & his actions with his own money.
My son is addicted to coke. He has been in & out of jail the last 7 yrs no matter what was done for him. It is time he stood up for himself & accepted the consequences of his own actions.
If money could fix an addict many of them would be alright now. When someone is being self-destructive, you cannot save them from themself.
My son is addicted to coke. He has been in & out of jail the last 7 yrs no matter what was done for him. It is time he stood up for himself & accepted the consequences of his own actions.
If money could fix an addict many of them would be alright now. When someone is being self-destructive, you cannot save them from themself.
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