strongerwoman

(I would love to hear from A's in recovery here too)

If an A is making what appears (even to very skeptical eyes) a sincere attempt at sobriety, is getting help, making amends to the best of their ability, are we supposed to always discount it as manipulation? I'm not talking about multiple attempts that consist of empty promises and manipulations.

What is our role as a loved one of an addicted person attemping sobriety? Especially if it is a sincere attempt for the first time?
My take on it is we are to detach as much as possible, stay cautious and careful, most importantly take care of ourselves and our own recovery.
Time and action are the best indicators of the A being sincere, but in the meantime, don't our loved one's who are sincerely trying deserve some credit and loving support?
And I'm talking in general here, not just about my AH who only has 6 days of sobriety right now, which in the long run is a tiny drop in the bucket.

Isnt it possible to support and love an A attempting sobriety while not allowing ourselves to get sucked in and pulled down? As long as we are working our own program and not wearing any rose-colored glasses, keeping our boundaries, keeping ourselves safe, guarding our hearts and minds, why is it not okay to, in my case, give the AH a real chance?

I understand people here have gone to hell and back with the A's in their lives. Lord knows I have too. I understand people here not wanting to see others go through the same deep hurts and mistakes they have.
But I also understand that everyone has unique circumstances and relationships, that each of us has to walk our own path and learn our own lessons - no one can dictate another's path for them.

I also understand so much about addiction and the behaviors, the manipulations, the lies, the struggles.....all of it.
I understand people here have lived through attempt after attempt of their A's failed recoveries. At some point a person does certainly have to say enough is enough, but each of us has to reach that point on our own.

I think too, of my own struggles with the demons in my life - mainly serious, major, lifelong depression. I've certainly relapsed a hundred times in struggling to conquer it. If my loved ones hadnt stuck their necks out time and again and offered love and support to me, I'm not sure I would have gotten through to the other side so many times.
Should they have given up on me, cast me aside as a lost cause?
I'm sure they felt like doing so!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am learning everyday on this path I am on. Nothing really is black and white, one size fits all.
We each have a responsibility to ourselves to learn and grow everyday, to do what we feel is truly right for ourselves and our loved ones.

Right now I am giving my AH a chance. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. I am aware that the odds for it not working out are much, much greater than the odd of it working out. I am not blindly jumping back into my AH's arms, I am not being unwise, I am extending a hand while guarding my heart and wellbeing. I have my boundaries which are being enforced.

This is also not to say that those who made the choice to leave an A were wrong in anyway or didnt try hard enough, ect. Not at all. Each of us is on a different path, with different relationships, different circumstances like I said before.
This may all certainly fall apart in my face, I am aware of that, I am going so slow and being so cautious.
Each of us will know, without a doubt, when we are satisifed that we have reached the limits of what we can and can not live with. I think that is an important lesson too.

For the recovering A's here: did the love and support of a loved one make a difference to your recovery? I'm not talking about enabling - but knowing that someone was rooting for you, someone was in your corner, someone who loved and cared about you was there for support.

We need to support each other even if we don't agree with the choices others are making, it's a fine line.
Take care of you.

SlvrMag

I don't know if my opinion matters to you since I am an addict, not an alcoholic, but yes, it did make a world of difference! I would still be using for sure if my husband had not been there to help me up when I WANTED to get up. He almost wasn't. It took me almost 7 years to stop using (16 years of using, 7 of that trying to stop) and he had had ENOUGH!

strongerwoman

Yes, your opinion matters to me, thanks for your thoughts. My AH is an abuser of both alcohol and drugs.
Congrats on your sobriety.

SlvrMag

I am very thankful to have him, I am very lucky. He goes to NA meetings with me and even though he still has his guard up he has his arms open wide for me!

LaTeeDa

There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting sobriety. The danger lies in what your definition of 'support' is. I've seen a major shift in your posts since he declared he is a 'changed man.' The focus is all about him. He's doing this, he's doing that, what about these books for helping him, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not going to say support him, or don't support him. You will do whatever you will do regardless of what any of us say. But, I am sorry to see all your attention wrapped around him and what he is doing. Isn't that what got you into the situation you are in, financially speaking?

He's going to get sober or not regardless of how much you 'support' him, buy books about helping him, lose yourself in his situation. It would be much better for you in the long run to put all that energy and attention on yourself and your own life.

L

Lilyflower

Strongerwoman, you sound very focused and certain on what you want to do, how you want to handle this new turn of events in your's and your AH's life.

I get the sense from your post, that you want posters here to applaud you of your efforts, to give you our blessing in what you are doing. You don't need that! If this is what you feel is right to do for you right now, then it is right for you!

I have been keeping up with your threads, and from I can see the concern from others here has been that you keep focused on your own recovery - not his, and that you protect yourself throughout this new venture.

If you are doing that, then great.

In response to your post about standing in the same corner as your A and supporting them etc.....

Although I split with my abf, I gave him a full year after he came and admitted his addiction to me. I gave him that time to find recovery. He did not choose it. He made attempts again and again to go 'cold turkey' but his attempts never lasted more than a week or so at most.

I am still rooting for my exabf, I still hope he finds recovery, and if he chose it, I would support him wholeheartedly. However, I need to keep myself at ''minimum safe distance'' from his toxic personality right now, because he still drinks, and still is very verbally and emotionally abusive toward me.

Please do not assume that because we left our A's that we resigned all feelings of hope for their well being away.

I sincerely wish you and your husband all the best with this attempt, if he remains sober then wonderful, and I will celebrate with you! If he does not, I will still be here to support you through that too.

It is your life - your choice

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

prodigal

Strongerwoman, as I replied to your previous post in which I apologized for overlooking your attendance at a local church's 12-step program, you did not respond to my question when I asked how the dynamics between you and your AH had changed.

I also pointed out that Doormat believed you were being fed a line of b.s. and suzieq called it "manipulation." I asked how you felt about their responses.

So LTD has put it back out there on the table. It sounded to me in your last post that it was all about HIS recovery and not your's. You told me it was about YOU. It appears at least two of us here think you have your focus on his recovery.

Again, correct us if we are wrong. I would like to hear more about your 12-step program and counseling and how you feel they have contributed to your own recovery.

Lilyflower

Yes strongerwoman, this is what I was trying to get across in my post. It still all seems to be about HIM. I mentioned the need to focus on your recovery - not his.

Out of curiosity do you feel that standing by him and helping him get sober by buying books, going with him on your church 'date' each week, and being the monitor between him and the OW, are progressive steps in your recovery?

At one time, I believed that getting him better would mean I got better, I am wondering if you think this way?

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

queenteree

Stephanie - I can only speak from my experience with my AH. We have been together over 23 years. The first three years, he was very active in his alcoholism. I was a single mother of three kids, he lived w/me, supported me and my kids financially, paid the bills, fed and clothed us. But it all came with a price - his very active alcoholism. Finally I had enough, went to business school, got a good job and kicked his butt out! He spiraled out of control, lost me (and the kids), lost his job and went to detox and rehab. During that time, I changed my phone no. and had a no contact rule with him. Finally, somewhere after about 6 mos. of no contact, we dated for a year (once a week or so), got engaged and got married. He continued to work his program and remained sober for over 14 years. We had a wonderful life and marriage, truly we did. I firmly believe we are both the loves of each other's lives. Then BAM! Alcohol reared it's ugly head again. And he was even worse this time around! Last May, after he almost died due to alcohol (BAL level of over .4), he "realized" he needed help and again went to rehab. I was overjoyed, finally he was getting the help he needed (and, I thought, wanted). He begged me to stay with him, promised he would make it all up to me, it was all gonna be good again. And since rehab had worked the first time, I had no reason to doubt it. I traveled over 300 miles round-trip every Saturday for visiting day to show my support for him. He managed to stay sober for a little over 3 months before relapsing again, and even worse than before!!!! This past year I have been thru hell and back, endless promises, etc. There is only so much someone can go thru before they say "enough is enough."
It is my understanding that A's will manipulate, promise, etc. to keep their enabler where they want them. They need us more than we need them, only they'd like us to believe otherwise. I firmly believe that. As someone here on SR once said, when a child misbehaves and you put them on the naughty mat (time out), do they not beg and promise to behave in order to be let out? Same for A's. Only when the A seeks true recovery, works a program, and has their brain clear of alcohol/drugs for at least a year, is there any kind of hope that they are sincere in what they are saying. And you must also remember, alcoholism is only a "controlled" disease, it is lifelong and can come back at any time. Ask yourself if you are prepared to deal with this lifelong disease and the possbility of relapse. And I must say, each relapse is worse and worse, trust me on that one, the progression is unbelievable.
You ask if it's possible to give them a chance, as long as you're working your own recovery. The way I see it, unless you are pretty solid in your recovery (and I think that takes time, not just a couple of months), it would be too easy to fall back into the same old patterns, same codie/alkie dance.
I truly wish the best for you in whatever you chose to do. I understand the deep love you and your husband share. I've been there too. But I also understand how this disease progresses. Please think about taking time for you, to get your head straight. Give yourself that gift. It's priceless.

OverItNow

From my own personal experience (which is the only one I speak to), anytime there is an *attempt* at recovery it's because of a threat. It seems that he may feel threatened.

I smoke cigarettes--I want to quit smoking to make my skin better, my health better, me better and my wallet fatter. I have never once said to him, "God, if you weren't such a drunk, I'd quit smoking," or "I promise, if you don't leave me, I'll quit smoking." But any attempt of recovery or talk of it on his part, is in response to a threat or something I've "done." Never, ever, ever has it been initiated by him or done in silence.

In my life, there's too much stale liquor under the bridge for me to believe anything. And my heart aches too much because I've believed him the hundred times he's said he's "serious" this time. Does this make me bitter? Perhaps, but I think it makes me a little wiser. Whatever you choose to do, make sure you keep your wits about you. All I hear now from him is: "Blah, blah, blah I promise." or "Blah, blah, blah never again."

strongerwoman

Sorry, its hard to keep up with all of these posts!
Lets see....the dynamics have changed for me because I really feel I am in a different place now. I KNOW I can live without him, I no longer have the attitude of desperation to keep him in my life, I have defined exactly what is and what is not acceptable in my life, I am moving on with my life with or without him, I am much more confident in myself - those are off the top of my head. I am really participating in my 12 step program, am a very vocal member, made two recovery buddy friends, am reading and learning and journaling about my recovery everyday, I am awaiting a new therapist, the counseling center started me off with a counselor who was leaving in two weeks - how dumb is that!

AH knows the dynamics have changed and I am moving on, the ball is in his court, he knows he needs to take continued, consistant action to get himself healthy before we can even try to salvage our relationship.
However he knows I will support him in this effort, but NOT at my expense.
I dont feel I am enabling him, his efforts must be on his own, for himself.

As far as the manipulation and b.s. comments, it may turn out to be so. But I am prepared to face that, I am aware of the possibility. It also will not tear me apart if it turns out that way. I am prepared to accept it and move on. Sure, I'll be sad and it will be hurtful, but it won't destroy me like it would have even two months ago.
I just really feel like *I*am in a different place, not sure if I am able to verbalize it like I'd like to to you all.

As far as reading books about his recovery, well, part of it is that that is the type of person I am. I read and read and read and research everything that concerns me in my life. I should have been a researcher as a career!
But I don't feel I am consuming myself with reading about his recovery.
Just a part of learning about it all.

Again, I don't hold out much hope that my AH will be able to stay sober, since he has been battling this since he was 13years old and is now 40.
He would totally have to transform his entire life. I'm not saying it isnt possible, because it is, just the odds against it are pretty high.
At the same time, this is the first sincere attempt he is making. As his wife and someone who loves and cares about him, I will stand by and give him a chance & support him without enabling.
At the same time I will be moving on with my life too, we are still seperated, not moving back in together, ect...

Jazzman

I can speak from my own experience, interesting as it is. I'm an ex cocaine addict, quit cold turkey back in 1983 with no rehab, no program and have not had one relapse. My Father was an alcoholic who quit after one 30 day rehab and he only had one relapse that lasted a day. He was sober until the day he died. My second ex wife tried three 30 day rehabs and has not been sober longer than several weeks I'm guessing. I'm convinced she will be drinking until the day she dies.

I get the impression from your posts your H has not done anything yet except convince you he is serious. One thing I've learned is anyone can get sober in a 30 day rehab, the challenge is when you get out and pass five beer selling quickie marts and two liquor stores on your way home from work.... EVERY day, for ever and ever..... What will happen? I dunno.

prodigal

Thank you for your response. I appreciate your candor. You mentioned you have two sober recovery buddies. It's good to have people you can talk with f-2-f. Do you also have a sponsor? If not, do you think there is somebody in your recovery group who would be a good fit as a sponsor for you?

Cassey

Are you hoping that your husband gets better for you and your relationship or are you hoping that he gets better for him???

Is your husband wanting to get better for himself or does he want to get better for you??

I support my husband in his efforts for him, I want the best for him and I hope that one day he will have the best in anything that he chooses to do for himself.

I use to want him to get better for me and he wanted to get better for me but neither one of us wanted him to get better for the right reasons for (HIMSELF).

I had to and have to continue practing detachment from his recovery and his issues that he has to deal with.

Detaching and still loving but loving myself more, never thought I could. But I had to for my own sanity. I have to constantly work on my recovery cause I can so easily get wrapped up into something that I cant control, cant change or dont own.

strongerwoman

Well, thats not really true.
He hasn't drank/drugged in 6 days, threw out his drug paraphenilia, has attended our church's faith based recovery service, and men's substance abuse group, has attended 2 AA meetings, has called two older men for support that he knows -one has 37 years sober, the other 17 years sober, is in the process of getting himself into an outpatient program (insurance issues, run around, waiting to hear back from them) has made a doctor appointment to discuss medications that may help.
All of this in 6 days time. And he has been working from 7am til at least 9pm his regular job and two side jobs he's trying to complete to pay MY bills.

I kind of feel damned if I do, damned if I don't in talking about him and what he is doing. If
I talk about what he is doing, I am focusing on him if I dont talk about what he is doing then its assumed he's not doing anything.

strongerwoman

My recovery group has only had 7-8 people in it each meeting so far, and I am still getting to know them as itsnot been a terribly long time I've been attending.
I've gotten the impression that a person should have a certain amount of time in a group before asking for a sponsor. Maybe thats not correct, I've not had a sponsor before. I dont know.

Astro

Stephanie, just sharing my experience, my ex loved and supported me for many years. Each time she asked me to slow my drinking down or stop I'd abstain for a few days, she'd brighten up and seem happy, and that was my green light to run off to the store for my DOC. It's like throwing a dog a bone and having it bite the hand that feeds it. Eventually she got tired of loving and supporting someone who constantly crapped on her, so she found someone else to love and I found sobriety. It wasn't her support, it was her total disgust with me that was my wake-up call and gave me the moment of clarity I needed to seek recovery.

Yes, there were people who rooted for me in my recovery. My brothers and sister-in-law were huge supports. They were there to give me a ride to a mental institution when I wanted to die, and they were there to take me home when I realized that I needed AA, and that I could never safely drink again. My children were frightened of me at first, but even today they continue to support me and attend meetings with me, they're my biggest supporters in recovery. Having the love and support of family and friends definitely makes a difference.

BUT.....

There isn't a single person in my life who can keep me sober or make me take a drink. I stay sober for myself first, without that I'm useless to everyone else. Recovery is for me. It's a very rich and rewarding life, I feel incredibly blessed to share it with my children, GF, friends, and family, but they're not the ones keeping me sober. Only God, myself, and the program of AA can do that. My support comes from my fellows in recovery, and I also know that if I relapse my GF (who works programs of recovery in Al-Anon and CoDA) will kick me to the curb in a heartbeat.

I'm going to comment on something else you said, I hope it doesn't sound harsh. 6 days sober is not a sincere attempt at sobriety, and making amends doesn't come until much later on after we've gotten truly honest with ourselves. At 6 days sober I was hanging onto a plastic chair for dear life at AA meetings, spilling coffee on myself because I couldn't stop shaking. Making amends came much later, after a thorough journey through the 12 Steps. Even now, I still find myself creating a little more wreckage with my ex at times. My recovery is difficult at times, the rewards are proportionate to the amount of effort I put into it. I don't look for credit for practicing the principles that the program teaches me.

Best wishes to you in your recovery. Please try to stay focused on yourself.

Lilyflower

I hear alot of concern for a wonderful lady. We are your cyber friends, and we care about you! You should not feel defensive.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

FormerDoormat

StrongerWoman, I'm worried about you. Just a few short weeks ago, you reported to us that your life was in absolute turmoil. I saw some really dangerous behaviors on your part, like driving over to your ex's house late at night and starting a fire and losing control of your vehicle in a crying jag after yet another nasty confrontation in front of your ex's home.

These behaviors not only have put you at risk, they could have harmed innocent bystanders as well. You were making progress and working on yourself and I was encouraged. But the moment you began to step out on your own, your ex became uncomfortable at the thought of you moving on, and he began to play you once again. That's manipulation; that's not recovery.

You appear to be teetering on the brink of giving it another go with your ex and that would land you right back into the fire. I know you will do whatever you want to do despite what we all say, and I know my post may be akin to taking someone else's inventory, but I am seriously worried about your emotional health, your safety, and that of your children if you choose this path.

The codie in me wants to rescue you from yourself, but only you can do that. Your husband needs to find recovery from himself; let him do that without interference from you. That way, you can keep focused on yourself and your own recovery.

Barbara52

I supported, stil support, my brother in his recovery. He's been sober 20+ years now. Yes, I'm sure it helped him to know he had my love and support as he went thru his recovery journey. But it was his journey.

If the time ever comes, I will support xAH if he gets into a recovery program and gets sober. But it will be from a safe distance and it will be limited to what I can do with a man I no longer love but do care for.

I guess if I were in your situation, I would be supportive in terms of recognizing his efforts but I would mostly concentrate on me and my personal recovery. That way whatever road he took, I would be taking care of me.