crisco

One of the biggest roadblocks in my life in recovery is that I have to rely on a "higher power" that is God. God can exists in a many different versions but with me, I am skeptical of existance of a "God". Now if there is a God, I am will believe in the God of Reformed Christianity. It is most easiest real "Higher Power" for me to believe in.

I am strong believer in Darwinism and Secular Humanism. However, if there is a God, I would pick the Christian God and use Reformed Christianity. Reformed Christianity is very close to the spirituality that I want to believe in. And I go to church from time to time and feel very comfortable with their beliefs.

I need to get my soberity first before I wait for Christian vs Secular Humanism to settle. Because of the lack of non 12-step recovery scenes in my county, I am stuck with AA and I stuck with trying to reconcile secular humanism againist the 12 steps and without a real "true" higher power

At this point, the "Higher Power" itself is the entire recovery community of Lake Forest AA and time spent with my sponsor. However, my sponsor must realize is that I am very secular and prayer and meditation towards a higher power is not going to be part of my 12-step recovery.

I have no problems using AA and the 12-step model as long I can use secular humanism as the basis for the 12-step model. What I am hoping is there is a way and I can liberate myself from my stinking thinking.

There has to be a way without believe in a "higher power" that is divine in nature and use Bill W's model of recovery. Otherwise, I have to drive to San Diego County and there is no need for that when such a strong recovery community already exists.

But if this going to be issue, than I will have to accept the truth and have to drive to San Diego for SMART Recovery meetings.

deezaldog

For me recovery is my main objective every day. In meetings I hear many versions of a Higher Power. It is what works for you. That is how Dr. Bob and Bill set up AA program so it would attract any suffering aloholic. In many mtgs are people like you-unsure or nonbeliever of HP. One man in particular is sober more than 20yr. and doesnot believe. He believes in sobriety he lives a healthier more fullfilling life. I look at him with great respect and he is extremely intelligent. His sponsor is a local alcoholic minister. The minister does not attempt to convert him to a HP. only sobriety. It was great reading your post. Thanks

JigOvLife

Went through just the same thing,during 2 1/2 yrs of AA. Couldn't reconcile my own concept of a possible sentient creator with the steps.

I'm going it alone now which might not be the best course for yourself,it's taken me 3 years to feel confident enough to tackle total abstinence and the desire to change by myself.

For me there were things that seemed sacrosanct in the steps that I thought could use updating, God's gender for instance, the way this HP will only aid you if sought. The need to be humble before it, and how exactly could this HP reach in and 'correct my shortcomings' like a metaphysical plumber. If I'm not the universe experiencing itself subjectively then I like to postulate a creator would be powerless over it's creation after the big bang.

Whew, existential philosophies can be tiring.

You could try what isn't advised and use the steps you are comfortable with,and ignore the dogma,but from experience you'll be up against a few prophets of doom. I personally think the moral inventory and making amends can be a great emotional release.

I wish you luck,hope I've been of some,not too baffling,help.

Cheers

tommyk

Your disease will attempt to distract you and attempt to make your program fail.

The Higher Power definition issue is just one distraction your disease will try and use.

You may define YOUR Higher Power as any power being higher than 'yourself'.

Often times people choose 'the group', knowing that 'group thought' is almost always superior to single-minded alcoholic thought.

If your disease can get you to skip AA meetings and drive to San Diego, it will.

Aysha

I get so frustrated with that as well. It is hard for me to comprehend this God thing.
Although I do believe there is a god. I dont pray. And I find it hard to think that turning my will over to him can help me. But an HP doent have to be a God of any kind. Just because AA/NA says it in the steps. Doesnt mean that it has to be God.
If you think about it..There is some kind of higher power in works no matter what your belief.
If it not be a God,,It could be someone in your life that influences you alot. It could be your group..it could be scientifical theory...(Did that make sense?).
I like to believe my HP is Karma. Although it may be confused as God like in how a person believes in it. It is more of a reap what you sow type belief. What goes around comes around. I DO believe how I choose to live my life and where my heart and intentions are will decide the path in which my life goes. If I choose to do bad things with a bad heart. Bad things will happen. If I do the right thing..With a good heart..All should be well. But in this belief. I have to remember that there are bad days and things happen out of my control. But as long as I keep my heart in the right place. Everything will work out in the long run.
I dont know...I may have confused you more.
Point is..IT doesnt have to be one thing..not a god...It can be anything that you think has more power than yourself. We didnt create ourselves. We are complex creatures.
Something greater than ourselves has to be in the works.

Ananda

I have a lot of similarities to Chyinia.

The steps help me to related to the world I live in. They help me to see that ME is not the only thing in the world or the only impact. They help me find out what I do believe and what I don't. Yes...I love them.

I have found that the people of AA have been mostly accepting of my not beieving in the sort of God they do.

Going to San Diego to explore a different sobriety group is not such a bad idea. I have to stay open to anything that will help me stay sober. I'm not much on group think...but I'm a firm believer in group support.

Just keep reaching out to other alchoholics and you will find a way!:ghug3

Negative Man

For me, my higher power is INSIDE of me. It actually says this somewhere in the Big Book. I'll ask my sponsor about it.

For years, I turned away from what was good inside of me. My higher power is my life spirit that makes me want to make a contribution to others in this life. I can't do that if I turn my back on what is good within myself. I can't help others if I'm numbing myself from my life force.

Maybe think of it that way? And don't be afraid to raise your hand in a meeting and say "I'm not really sure about this higher power thing." There are others that feel this way.

Finally, something is making a miracle in me. Something is stopping me from drinking. I was not able to do that for years, until I came to this inner higher power. So, to me, it is a miracle, even if I don't understand it.

-- NM

Dean62

I have found many things such as resentments, fear, pride etc. that have been roadblocks in my life in recovery. The first thing my sponsor told me a couple of days before I stopped drinking was "Forget everything you know, everything you think you know". Letting go of my "beliefs" opened my mind to recovery. I haven't had a drink since.
There is a way according to the big book itself.
Big Book first edition p.47 Crisco I emphatically assure you if you are WILLING to honestly open your mind and heart you are on your way.

Willingness allows me progress not perfection. It's not my ability to do the next right thing that keeps me sober. It's my willingness to do the next right thing that keeps me sober today.

Whatever you do I pray it works for you and you find peace and sobriety in your life. :ghug3

kelsh

Negative Man,

Your way of expressing your belief about your Higher Power is just like mine. I feel my Spirituality is within my Heart and when my Heart feels good I am doing good works and when my Heart & Stomach feel bad then I need another tune-up.

I had a great deal of trouble with the God aspect but do believe there is something out there that comes to us and within us if we are able to accept it.

I was watching a thunderstorm out my livingroom window...wind, rain, thunder, & lightening when a bright light just seemed to come to me and flow within me and I got such a warm feeling and then it just came to me that it was something greater than me coming into my Heart to help me.

From that day forward I spoke of my HP as coming from within me from my Heart.

kelsh

Taking5

I think it is good to review steps 2 and 3 here:

Words means things. Notice that this step 2 does not say "Believed". It says "Came to believe". Likewise, step 3 does not say "Turned our will and lives over", it says "Made a decision to turn our will and lives over".

"Came to believe" and "Made a decision" implies in both cases that this is a process, not a singular event. As we continue to work the steps, continue our sobriety, and continue trying to practice AA principles in all our affairs, we experience profound changes in our understanding of ourselves and the world about us, including our Higher Power.

I heard an old timer say once to someone struggling with step 3 "Turn as much of yourself as you understand over to as much of God as you understand". If you perform a step 3 prayer or meditation daily as many people do, this will be very, very different after a year of sobriety than it is in the early days of being sober.

In my home group I am fairly close to a Jew, a Buddhist, and an Atheist. All have very different ideas of a higher power than the typical Christian idea. All of them will flat out tell you that by staying sober and working the steps - however awkwardly or inadequately - they have experienced the promises of the big book.

"HAPPY. JOYOUS. FREE." The big book says it all in those 3 words. Don't worry about doing it perfectly, just do it.

bugsworth

Crisco, what struck me most about your post was the first line....

One of the biggest roadblocks in my life in recovery is that I have to rely on a "higher power" that is God.

Recovery only has something to do with God if you want it to. I and many sober members of SR do not rely on God for our sobriety, it is an inside job entirely.

I find it is far easier to focus on recovering if my values and religious ideologies are left intact. Smart may be the better choice. I wish you much success!

lizw

Great topic, sometimes I think or it seems AA has an 'answer' for everything, this is probably because a lot of the first 100 were sales people, so they included the solution to nearly very objection one can think of.

The BB, pg 49, the mini verison, says, ".....we beg you to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religon. We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose to millions of people."

It also goes on to say on pg 55, "Actually we were fooling ourselves, becasue deep down inside every man and woman, and child is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or another it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself."

I've always liked the pg 55 bit, because my head goes off on trying to figure out what or who god/hp is and this reminds me that, it doesn't matter because the idea of god is already a part of me so I don't have to 'get god' as 'god's already got me.' All I have to do is improve my contact with him/her/it by working the steps and continuing with prayer and meditation.

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

I agree that the key to this dilemma is being "willing". I was willing..I had no idea what my HP was when I did the 3rd step, I was just willing to learn/grow/open my heart and get better. I dont know bout you, but I spent a lot of years trying to stop drinking and couldn't do it. I certainly was willing to do whatever it was I had to do, what did I have to lose?

So I didn't know what my HP was, but I was willing to find that out. And slowly my own personal idea of HP has shown itself. And The thing that really tied it up for me, that there was a power greater than myself, was all I have to do is walk outside and see nature, or look at the stars. Certainly, something much larger than me made that stuff..call it energy, whatever. Very much more powerful than lil ole me.

And I do pray, but I'm not sure what I am praying too, call it meditation, but it helps me remove myself from the equation for sure. And it's a damn relief to not have to control things anymore.

So, it's good that you are thinking about this..just be willing for whatever it is to reveal itself to you.

tommyk

A lot of people come into the program convinced they are going to do it 'their way'.

I sincerely wish them success.

Hopefully they will come back into the program if 'their way' doesn't work.

But all too often when 'their way' fails... they blame the program.

(I'd suggest anyone who feels that AA is a religious program please clarify their error, or please clarify my misunderstanding.)

353

Don't have a "higher power"? Don't believe a "higher power" exists?

If you're alcoholic stop drinking...if you have a problem with that maybe you're like me, alcohol WAS MY HIGHER POWER. It ruled my life, had complete dominion over my thoughts and actions.

AW2486

Just to clarify. Religion is the concept of God that the Church has. Spirituality is the concept of God that any individual has. AA is based on Spirituality.

If you would allow me to make a suggestion, write down what you would want that god to be and start with that. Like so many others have said, Willingness is the key.

I also really like what Page 55 says. God - Conscious .. That little voice inside of us that talks to us when we have done right or wrong. I look at it as the star trek communicator that we all have were we talk to our Higher Power.

Nice Thread

bugsworth

Believing in a "higher power" has nothing to do with getting sober. Just like believing in Santa has nothing to do with the presents under the Christmas tree.

As long as AA tells people to use a Higher Power, be it God or a super natural Doorknob aa is religious. No error to clarify Tommy. LOL

Dee74

LOL. Seems little doubt to me AA was meant to be a religious programme - Lizw's quotes above from the mini BB make that clear, particularly pg 55.

But, from this outsiders view, it doesn't have to be to work.

I play the guitar - in a pretty workman like way but I play it.

But I've also see guys pick it, strum it, thrash it, play it behind their back, with their teeth, with drumsticks, and in any number of different tunings.

Keith Richards takes his bottom E string off and tunes the guitar to a G chord.
Jimi Hendrix played it upside down and back to front.

It's all music.

Whatever works

D

tommyk

Respectable opinion, and I like the comparisons.

The actual AA principles will hopefully always continue to suggest / encourage open-mindedness by allowing those who participate to determine if their Higher Power is religious based or not. There is no requirement though.

And I agree, I have no error to clarify.

bugsworth

Regardless of what religion a HP is derived from is not the issue, it is that fact that one is needed to begin with. One can only be so open minded before dropping their brains on the floor. LOL