justjo

Why do men get involved with an alcoholic if they knew beforehand? Probably a silly question but I am curious.

Taking5

Men are a lot simpler than women. We just want to get laid.

CatsPajamas

IN all seriousness, I don't think it's all that different for men than it is for women. There are just those of us who believe we can fix someone else. We can love them better. We can solve their problems. We can HELP them.

We are often called codependents. Fixing people is what we do - or try to do. We NEED to be needed. And I think that applies to men as much as it does to women

FormerDoormat

I'll tell you why I did it--because I was so desperate for someone to love me (or more precisely to FEEL loved) that any man who showed interest in me would do.

I'm a heck of a lot more picky than that now.

Barbara52

Same here. And I'm working on getting my picker fixed.

(Boy that really almost sounds real nasty, don't it?)

FormerDoormat

Lol!

DesertEyes

I don't know about _all_ men. I do know that for me it's just the same as I've heard from all the ladies. Change the gender and it's _exactly_ the same. I've talked to a lot of guys in al-anon, done a few twelve steps with newbies, and when it comes to this "codie-itis", I don't see any difference at all.

We use different words. I've heard women say they needed a "project" to feel like they were worthy. In my men-only meets we say we need someone to "rescue" in order to feel like we are worthy. Women are the "mommy figure" and us guys are the "knight in shining armor".

So yeah, I think it's the same for us guys, just different words.

Mike

prodigal

I think Mike is absolutely correct in his assessment of why guys hook up with AW's. They have a desire to rescue a damsel in distress. Men are also socialized to be problem-solvers. They fall in love with a woman who has a major problem, and they want to solve that problem by "fixing" the addiction. It's the same for women; just different sides of the same coin.

Jazzman

I knew M from the old neighborhood. We dated off and on years ago, old flame type stuff. When we started dating again I noticed she was a heavy drinker and I figured it was due to a tough divorce she was going through at the time. I ignored the red flags and figured I could rescue her and fix all her problems.

I've had many relationships with many different types of women. I've learned that if I hook up with a damsel in distress I knee jerk react as the knight in shinning armor. If I hook up with strong independent women the relationship dynamics are totally different and much more healthy.

Like many I have a broken picker and need to be more wise about partner choices. The irony is by the time I get my picker fixed I'll need viagra!?!?

theotherone

ROTF...LMAO!!!!!!!!! That was priceless Jazzman!

Reddmax

One of the interesting things about my relationship was that she seemed so.... rational. I spoke with her before the marriage about alot of the issues that could come up, and she was quite reasonable. At the time, she had a bit of a weight problem, but that didn't bother me.

The biggest red flag that I ignored was her protestations of helplessness. I'm living with the x because I can't afford a place of my own.

After marriage, then all sorts of little things, and then 2 years in. "I made a mistake, and I need to divorce you"..... I didn't want it, and then we supposedly worked it out. A year and a half later, bariatric surgery and then the drinking. Then "I don't want you, I want my ex." Then I do want you. Now its back to "I don't want you, you're evil".

Men or women, they're all the same.

Redd

CatsPajamas

My sponsor used to say " 2 sickies do not a well-y make."

LOL

justjo

You may know why I asked the question?? My ASis uses, abuses, and changes partners every 6 months or so. Most were drinkers except two but I couldnt understand why a man would find a woman who doesnt shower, eat, socialize, abuse and basically out of it most of the time would stay with her. OK, I thought about the sex thing (really!!!) and I thought about the fix thing (understand it, but why bother if you know she doesnt love you and really is using you). I kept thinking, ok these guys are getting something out of this and it scares the hell out of me.
Im not saying men are any different from us ladies either, I was curious what a man would get from this. I guess Im a little naive. I know I couldnt do it.

Reddmax

Going back to my statement. To be perfectly honest, and I know I'll get some pointers from the wiser members of the community, some damaged people are very good at flying under the radar. There is a site called bpdcentral that talks about people with borderline personality disorder. These people are very, very, very good at convincing other people to join them in dysfunctional relationships. The term they use is hoovering. They just suck you in, and then you're screwed because the person has had an entire lifetime of experience in manipulation, coercion, and confusion. This makes them damn good at it.

I'm almost convinced that my SO has a case of this. My basic fault was assuming that a non-alcoholic, competent working person, was truthful in what they said. The red flags I mentioned above should have warned me. I was a fool, and now I'm in a lot deeper than I ever wanted to be. But, with the tools that my therapist, and my brothers and sisters here on SR are giving me, I'm finally waking up.

The primary want I had was not to take "care" of a person, nor was it to fix them. All I wanted and still want is a person that is a partner in life, and makes me a better person. I don't see that right now, so there are things I must do to achieve my goals. I will be a bit more observant in the future.

FormerDoormat

I've never met anyone who could make me a better person since changes to myself have to come from within me.

And while I think in the early stages of alcoholism that alcoholics are good a flying under the radar, I believe that I was even better at allowing them to fly under the radar (meaning I routinely ignored their unhealthy/unacceptable behaviors) just so I could be in a relationship.

As I've said previously, being in any relationship was my goal. Since I didn't think anyone could ever possibly want me, I thought the first candidate to come my way would be the only candidate so I jumped at the chance, ignored all the red flags, and created my own form of artificial reality. It involved rose-colored glasses, dreams of happily ever after, white picket fences, 2.5 children, and a perfect unchanging and undying love.

And then one day, I woke up from my self-created nightmare and accepted the reality of what is. Funny how avoiding reality made me miserable and accepting reality made me happy.

It's a simple lesson, really, but so darn hard to learn.

Reddmax

A question to everyone in the thread. What I meant by making myself a better person is that everyone has faults. No two people are alike, and the best way for a person to change is to see a good example.

So, when I say " Make me a better person" I should have probably said " Someone who is better at certain qualities that gives me an example to learn from". Is that a better way to say it?

LaTeeDa

I'm still peeling back the layers, trying to get to the root of my behaviors, but I think somewhere in my subconscious I thought that if I could save him, he would have to love me for it. There was this desperate need to be needed, and doing for him ensured that he would need me. Almost as if he owed me his devotion in exchange for all my "fixing."

I don't know if that makes any sense to you. It doesn't really make any sense to me, lol. I see now that my problems (codependence) really did make me as crazy, or crazier that the alcoholic.

L

DesertEyes

Hey there justjo

For me it was self-esteem. I learned as a child that if I did favors for my drunken parents I would not only avoid getting hurt, I might even get a little bit of recognition. Recognition is a _huge_ reward in a household where all you get is abuse and pain.

When I grew up I had no other social skills. I had no clue what healthy people were like, and when I did meet one they were _so_ out of my experience that they were frightening. I _knew_ that everybody wanted _something_ from me, and when healthy people treated me decently I just asumed they were too devious for me to safely protect myself from them. I was unable to "read" their motives, so I fled in fear.

Toxic people? Now _those_ I understood. I can ingratiate myself with them in two minutes flat. I know they want something and all I have to do is "buy" it with something in return. So a sick, toxic chick is exactly the kind of relationship I have a lifetime of experience with. All the female role models in my childhood were like that. I help them solve their problems and they give me attention. What better deal for a battered child?

Thanx to the program of recovery and a few good shrinks I have slowly learned otherwise.

Mike

steve11694

In my case. my wife was actually a light social drinker and definitely not alcoholic when we met and for the first 5 years. Currently she loves beer and drinks til she drops each and every time she drinks. Before she crossed the line to addiction, when she ordered beer with a meal(occasionally) she would typically stop after one, even in Germany, where beer is very good.

Before marriage I had dated girls that were alcoholic and despite getting laid, I could NOT deal with the drinking and related crap that we all know too well. I recall sitting in a bar(s) and my drink lasting 6 of theirs then having to pretend I understand the slurred jibberish they were talking about. The last straw with the final drunk I dated was when she drove me in her car swerving from the left lane to the right lane on a 3 lane highway and refusing to pull over and let me drive. IMO, actively alcoholic women can keep their pants on.

justjo

Thanks for your honesty. I asked the question because I felt guilty for the way I react to these guys. I guess because I couldnt understand why they wanted to get involved in the first place, I didnt trust them. I thought they were using her (I blamed them) but was intelligent enough to realize she uses them too. I judged them, angry because I saw their desperation, why didnt they have respect for themselves. Angry because I couldnt make her see what I thought I was seeing. Angry at her for using these guys. It made me sick. Im just being honest now so forgive me and thanks for helping me understand more.