News of possible cirrhosis

Old 07-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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News of possible cirrhosis

Sometimes, when I'm struggling to make a difficult decision, I ask myself what decision I would make if the same situation were present but I was also in the middle of a major hurricane or other huge natural disaster. Would I still be concerned about this issue if everything else I cared about in the world had just been spewed over by a raging volcano? More than once, thinking this way has helped me to put things into their proper perspective.

In my current state of trying to understand where my life is going, and wondering if I should leave my longterm relationship with my alcoholic partner, I've found myself thinking about my usual tactic of imagining myself in the middle of a horrible natural disaster, and wondering whether I'd find my current problems so huge in my life. I hope that all makes sense.

Anyway, my AP has had a problem for the last ten days or so with extremely swollen feet. She's never had this happen before. When she went to see her GP yesterday, the swelling had extended up to her knees. The GP sent her to the lab for bloodwork, then called today and left voice mail saying that the liver levels were abnormal and she's setting up an appointment for a liver scan to determine if this is early cirrhosis.

Is it terrible of me to hope for early cirrhosis? I'm feeling like a very bad person today, thinking this way. For many years, my AP has gone at least twice a year for liver bloodwork. She's always said that she's hoping for news of liver damage, as she thinks that's the only thing that will make her stop drinking.

At this point, I'm thinking that if she gets news that her liver is finally showing signs of damage from all this drinking, that she will either begin her recovery, or else she will be giving me the last straw I've needed to tell her I'm leaving. I think that knowing she has cirrhosis and continues to drink would put me over the edge.

Still, how dumb we both are waiting for medical proof of damage when we both know she's slowly killing herself without needing proof of it! And, if we get bad news will I feel like I'm in the middle of a hurricane and I just need to hide out? Oh, my, I'm having trouble concentrating on my work today!
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Old 07-17-2008, 01:58 PM
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I don't mean to be alarming but water retention in the lower extremities can be a sign of congestive heart failure.
Make sure she gets her heart checked.

As for hoping it will be liver damage because it will be a catalyst either for her to stop drinking or it will force you to decide to leave if she keeps drinking....
I don't think anyone would blame you for feeling that way.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:02 PM
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Two years before his death, my boyfriend was told that he was "pickling his heart" and if he continued drinking he'd be dead in a year. That news didn't make a bit of difference to him. He went right on drinking.

The doctor's prediction turned out to be partly wrong (he lived two more years) and partly right (his official cause of death was Hypertensive Arterioschlerotic Heart Disease or HASD). That means he died of hardening of the arteries, though in layman's terms, he died of alcoholism.

His first symptoms were swelling of the feet, then to the knees, then to the hip, then to his abdomen, then his lungs. He had to sleep sitting in a chair or he couldn't breathe due to heart and lung congestion.

And while this news had no effect on Richard's choices, it had a significant impact on my choices. I decided that I would not stand by and watch him drink himself to death and ended the relationship.

He chose to drink himself to death. He was found alone in his apartment with a bottle of booze at his side one year ago when neighbors complained of a foul odor coming from his unit.

It may be too late to save your partner, but it's not too late to save yourself.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by twistedruby View Post
I don't mean to be alarming but water retention in the lower extremities can be a sign of congestive heart failure.
Make sure she gets her heart checked.
Earlier this year she had her fourth episode of Supraventricular Tachycardia (SVT)
landing her back in the emergency room. Even though the doctors always tell her that her excessive drinking is the mitigating factor, my AP seems to get these episodes on days that she hasn't been drinking at all, so she doesn't believe them. It's terribly frightening, as her heart beats so fast she can't get enough oxygen. They literally stop her heart and restart it to get the correct rhythm back. This last time we went to a heart specialist for an ultrasound, and they pronounced her heart fine. So, back to the old drinking routine again with no change.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
i'm not trying to sound like chicken little, i would just encourage you to NOT wish for bad news of ANY sort in hopes that THAT will be her AHA moment.......
I'm sorry you had to go through that with your mother. That's horrible! I think you're right, I won't wish for this. I'd rather my AP was healthy when I leave her.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Update: CT scan scheduled for 8 am tomorrow morning. Not sure yet how I'm feeling about this.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:26 PM
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It will be what it will be. Worry about what it is will get you no where. As hard as it is, try to just let go and let God. Perhaps pray for comfort and support her and yourself but try not to worry about it.

How your AP reacts to whatever the news may be is also of course out of your control. She will do what she does. Perhaps this will be a turning point for her. {hugs}
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:11 AM
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I'm feeling down in the dumps today, which is odd for me as I'm terminally optimistic. I hate it when reality slaps me in the face! It's so much easier to walk around with my rose colored glasses on, living in my fantasy world.

Got up early this morning to get my AP to the clinic for her CT scan appointment. Had to wake her up like four times. The final time I just basically told her that if she didn't get up I was just going to go to work and forget about it. She got up, but then was grumpy and complaining that she would never wake me up with that kind of attitude! Like she ever has to wake me up anyway.

On the way there, she kept talking about how stupid this was and she wished she'd just cancelled the appointment and how she didn't care anyway. I didn't say anything, just kept driving.

No results yet. Hopefully by Monday. But, after I took her home and went to work on the bus, I have continually been wondering why I care? She doesn't care, so why do I care so much? What is it about my personality that makes me care, and how do I get rid of it? I guess that's the codependency, right? I've always just thought of it as a responsibility ethic or something. Hard lessons.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:07 PM
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I have continually been wondering why I care? She doesn't care, so why do I care so much?
Bingo. Why was it your responsibility to wake her up and drive her to the appointment? Unless she's physically incapable of doing so, your partner's health care is her responsibility.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat View Post
Bingo. Why was it your responsibility to wake her up and drive her to the appointment? Unless she's physically incapable of doing so, your partner's health care is her responsibility.
You're so right. I think that's a big part of why I feel so depressed today. In theory, I understand this whole codependency thing, but so many times, when it comes down to the daily practice of it, I get caught up in the details. Today, I've caught myself rationalizing several times.

She definitely could have gotten herself to the appointment. She doesn't drive, stopped years ago when it became obvious that she didn't have enough control over her addiction to be sure she wouldn't drive drunk. At least that's one less worry.

In my rationalization, the reason I drove her and the reason I wanted her to wake up and not miss the appointment is because I'm anxious to get the answers to her tests. I think that if it turns out she has cirrhosis, it will be a catalyst for change one way or the other, and I'm in a hurry to just get on with it.

I spent my lunch hour looking up apartments for rent, wondering what's out there and what I can afford.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by starflier View Post
Earlier this year she had her fourth episode of Supraventricular Tachycardia (SVT)
landing her back in the emergency room. Even though the doctors always tell her that her excessive drinking is the mitigating factor, my AP seems to get these episodes on days that she hasn't been drinking at all, so she doesn't believe them. It's terribly frightening, as her heart beats so fast she can't get enough oxygen. They literally stop her heart and restart it to get the correct rhythm back. This last time we went to a heart specialist for an ultrasound, and they pronounced her heart fine. So, back to the old drinking routine again with no change.
i dont think they actually "stop" her heart to get the rhythm back to normal. if you refer to "adenosone', it causes skipped beats before reverting to normal rhythm, or returning to svt, whatever be the case.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by starflier View Post
I spent my lunch hour looking up apartments for rent, wondering what's out there and what I can afford.
Finding out just what your options are can be very liberating!!

It's impossible not to care about someone you love. Don't beat yourself up for slipping into your codie habits because you care - treat yourself with kindness. No one is perfect 100% for the time (though I do try...)
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:17 AM
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Water retention in the lower extremities can also be a sign of high blood pressure and I deal with this on a daily basis and I am fine as long as I watch my salt closly and consume minimal to no salt at all in my diet except for foods that have natural salt - I do however take a water pill for the days that I do over induldge in salt and wake up with Club Like Feet.....

It can be a sign of liver damage, kidney damage, heart failure and high blood pressure.

Also, I am not sure if liver damage is going to make her stop. She has to make the choice for recovery. Everyone thinks that medical issues can make someone stop, but a lot of times they do not.

I wish you luck - keep us posted.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:11 AM
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hey starflier--
I would say a serious diagnosis of something alcohol-related has about as much of a chance as any "bottom" in getting your AP to seek recovery. It will spur some people to seek recovery and others it will not. If it impacts her in a way that leads to recovery then she will find recovery. But maybe she still has some drinking to do... try not to tie any expectations into what ever the results may be. You can naturally show your concern for her health, but let the weight of the results land in her lap.

This is just one more big serious alcohol related drama. You already have all the "results" you need after so many years with this woman to assess the kind of relationship you're in. If you only want to stay in it "if she changes" then you're probably wise to keep looking at apartments and, in any event, stay the course in keeping the focus on yourself.

Wow, when you posted that bit about "why do I care so much" and FD's response to that too.... that is getting into some very deep stuff - some nuts and bolts of codependency...very interesting thanks for sharing all this and - I do hope your partner's health is OK.

How crazy that we can want to rescue them for years and then secretly hope they are brought down by a health issue so we can feel....what? Validated? Right? Justified? I have definitely felt this way many times - it makes me ashamed...

Peace,
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
hey starflier--
How crazy that we can want to rescue them for years and then secretly hope they are brought down by a health issue so we can feel....what? Validated? Right? Justified? I have definitely felt this way many times - it makes me ashamed...

Peace,
B
Yeah, me too. In my heart of hearts, I don't want her to suffer at all. I am ashamed for feeling that way. And, I know it's crazy that I'd pin any hopes at all on news of liver damage finally giving her a desire for recovery.

I am very, very grateful this forum exists and that there are so many people out there willing to take time out of their day, and give me a little piece of their hearts and wisdom to help me find my way. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I am feeling more melancholy today than I've felt in a long time, but rather than allowing myself to get depressed because of this melancholy, I'm examining my feelings and trying to understand them. I believe that the reality of my situation is finally beginning to sink into my consciousness, past all the barriers I've put up for so many years.

I tend to think in terms of black and white; working with computers will do that to a person. The reality is that there are lots of grey areas, and I think the truth is in those grey areas.

I've been doing lots of reading lately about Freud's theories, and about how modern psychoanalysts have refined those theories. The dualism that is inherent in each one of us -- the way we go through each day, just struggling to survive, while in our innermost beings we are aware of a desire for change, but don't know how to do it -- is what causes the conflict many of us are suffering through in our fight to overcome codependency. On one hand, we simply try to maintain our lives (home, jobs, relationships) and on the other hand, we try to learn how to let go of the responsibilities we have wrongly assumed and begin looking inward, examining our motives and beginning our journeys toward wholeness.

As codependents, we view change as horrifying, after all that's what we work so hard to prevent! Remain stable, don't let anything go awry, fix mistakes, maintain the status quo! So when we contemplate making changes ourselves, these same warnings go off in our brains, and we're terrified because we're the ones pulling the fire alarms. Once I get these facts cemented in my brain, and they're such new thoughts that I haven't had time to do that yet, I think I'll be able to pull myself out of this melancholy.

This morning, I have been dwelling on how I can make my AP understand what I'm going through, what I need out of our relationship, and how much better I think her life will be if she can just begin the process of recovery. What a bunch of bull crap! And I know it, too, which is the part that scared me when I caught myself thinking that way.

So, I have given myself an assignment: Write myself a letter. Not for her, but for me. What do I want for me? What will it take to get me there? What are the steps, one by one, down to the most granular level, to get me there? And when do I need this to happen? I'll start off with an outline with those headings, and see where it leads me. Much healthier way to spend a few hours than wondering how I can make someone else understand their own problems, eh?
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:10 PM
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No, Steve, doctors actually do stop a patient's heart to reset a super fast heart rate. I learned this first hand when I suffered from atrial fibrillation recently and my pulse climbed to 320 beats per minute. Thankfully, they do this while you're asleep and it wasn't necessary in my case. I believe supraventricular fibrillation is even more serious than atrial fibrillation.

Starflier, that is the best plan I've heard in a long time. I hope you find the life you're looking for. It's there for the taking.
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Old 07-20-2008, 08:03 PM
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Funny thing the topic of SVT came up yesterday. This morning at 12:30 am, I woke up with a seriously fast heart rate. It scared the crap out of me, so I went to the ER in case it escalated into something serious.

Luckily, by the time I got to the ER, my heart rate was beginning to calm down. I was kept there until 4:30 this morning for observation. During that time, another patient with SVT arrived, and my ER nurse was caring for her, too.

She said they had to use the defibillators without anesthesia in order to get her heart to return to a normal beat. I asked her if SVT was a more serious condition than a-fib and she said absolutely.

My discharge instructions said that folks who suffer from irregular heartbeats should avoid caffene, smoking, alcohol, diet pills, medications that increase the heart rate, and strenuous activities (apparently my episode was instigated by mowing the yard in near 100 degree heat yesterday evening and getting dehyrdated).

So, it doesn't really matter what her lab results will be regarding possible liver issues. She's already playing with fire with her daily drinking and SVT.

The question is what plans, if any, do you have to protect yourself from your partner's harmful behavior? She's not just harming herself. She's also harming you.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by FormerDoormat View Post
.

The question is what plans, if any, do you have to protect yourself from your partner's harmful behavior? She's not just harming herself. She's also harming you.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things, this is the real question, isn't it?

I can look back on my life and realize that the only tool in my toolbox has been a hammer. Consequently, everything is a nail, that gets pounded on and goes in twisted and bent most of the time, gets pulled out and pounded back in again, worse than ever. So, my first step is getting some new tools. I'm doing that by getting personal therapy, reading about alcoholism and its effects on the alcoholic and the family, and coming to these boards and reading everything.

For the last six years, I owned a retail business. We got mired in horrible debt, and in six years I got a total of 32 days off. That's just over 5 days off per year. As a result, I barely had time to lift my head and look around. Every day was a struggle to just survive. I sold my business in February this year, took 2.5 months to find a new job, which I've held now for two months. I'm only beginning to figure out a budget that will allow us to survive. This whole financial mess has occupied a lot of my time and my thinking.

For this summer, we have my AP's brother with us, and in August my middle daughter and her fiance are coming home from Europe for two weeks. By September, I will have a handle on the financial situation, the guests will be gone, and I will have the freedom to deal, day-to-day, with the choices my AP makes about her recovery. She continues to promise that as soon as her brother is gone, she'll stop drinking and be serious about her recovery.

Meanwhile, she needs to worry about the health implications of continuing to drink through the summer. And, I need to work on my detachment, and continue to refuse to supply her with alcohol, and continue my own path of self-healing.

As I wrote all of this, I struggled with wondering if I'm rationalizing, but I also recognize that the next couple of months of stability will make me stronger to do what I need to do in the fall. I honestly hope I have at least a couple of new tools in my toolbox by then.
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Old 07-21-2008, 09:28 AM
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Hey FD. I'm glad you are doing better. {hugs}
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:14 AM
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Hang in there, Star. And thanks for all the support you've given me.

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