The servant syndrome
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The servant syndrome
I'm a bit curious about other people's experiences with their A. Mine wants me to buy alcohol for her, or fill her glass when its empty. Not always, but lots of times. However, if I refuse, like last night, she gets furiously mad. Anyone had that happen to them?
Red
Red
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Location: Arlington, VA
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Wow. I've never had anyone try to treat me as a servant, let alone pitch a fit if I didn't allow it.
It reads to me like a combination of entitlement issues on her part and enabling behaviors on yours. Only you can decide if you want to continue to play that particular game.
It reads to me like a combination of entitlement issues on her part and enabling behaviors on yours. Only you can decide if you want to continue to play that particular game.
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Heck no, mine is quite the opposite. Watching mine drink is like catching a glimpse of a spotted owl. Very rare. Some time between his vodka purchase and coming home, he transfers all the liquid into several empty water bottles. Then he scatters them in different places in the house. The guest closet, under mattresses, in his golf bag, in the basement, under our bed, etc. So, he usually has a bottle of vodka close to him when I leave the room. He never has it out. He never has it in his hand. The last time I saw him drink was about a month ago. I walked into our bedroom to change my clothes, and he didn't hear me coming. He was knelt beside our bed, holding the bedskirt with one hand (ready to toss the bottle back under there) and chugging the vodka with the other. He said, "You caught me", and said something else nasty to the effect that I was trying to catch him.
Anyhow, his addiction is a very private one. He never drinks in front of anyone. Even if we're at a social event. But he'll drink until he's passed out the second we get home.
If he asked me to get his booze, I wouldn't do it. His addiction has caused enough chaos for me. I certainly don't want to help him any. I wouldn't buy it for him either. Would feel icky about that.
In fact, since he's a boozer, I wind up feeling icky just walking into a liquor store to get myself a few beers once every year or so.
Anyhow, his addiction is a very private one. He never drinks in front of anyone. Even if we're at a social event. But he'll drink until he's passed out the second we get home.
If he asked me to get his booze, I wouldn't do it. His addiction has caused enough chaos for me. I certainly don't want to help him any. I wouldn't buy it for him either. Would feel icky about that.
In fact, since he's a boozer, I wind up feeling icky just walking into a liquor store to get myself a few beers once every year or so.
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Below are some attributes of "dry drunks". Many include pomposity, self-righteousness, resentment, blame and accusations. My AH isn't a dry drunk, he just won't stop drinking longer than a week. But he exhibits many of these characteristics. I'd wonder if she's asking you to get her wine because of some mental charge. You know, like if she can get you to get it for you, you still approve of it, or obviously you don't see a problem with it. Because unless you have a really huge house, we don't usually ask each other to get glasses of anything. We just go to the kitchen and get it.
acting self-important, either
by “having all the answers,”
or playing “poor me.”
• making harsh judgments of
oneself and others.
• being impatient or pursuing
whims.
• blaming others for shortcomings
one suspects in oneself.
• being dishonest, usually
beginning with little things.
• impulsive behavior which
ignores what’s best for oneself
and others.
• inability to make decisions.
• mood swings, trouble with
expressing emotions, feeling
unsatisfied.
• detachment, self-absorption,
boredom, distraction or disorganization.
• nostalgia for the drinking life.
• fantasizing, daydreaming and
wishful thinking or euphoria.
• less participation in a 12-step
program or dropping out
altogether.
acting self-important, either
by “having all the answers,”
or playing “poor me.”
• making harsh judgments of
oneself and others.
• being impatient or pursuing
whims.
• blaming others for shortcomings
one suspects in oneself.
• being dishonest, usually
beginning with little things.
• impulsive behavior which
ignores what’s best for oneself
and others.
• inability to make decisions.
• mood swings, trouble with
expressing emotions, feeling
unsatisfied.
• detachment, self-absorption,
boredom, distraction or disorganization.
• nostalgia for the drinking life.
• fantasizing, daydreaming and
wishful thinking or euphoria.
• less participation in a 12-step
program or dropping out
altogether.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
No, that's not something thats happened to me recently. Way back when, when I had little to no self-esteem, I would. Nowadays I can get very bristly when taken for granted or treated like a slave in that way. Not to say that I don't do nice things for people -- but as soon as it's expected (and anger ensues when I DON'T do it) then I know it's just a power trip, not a mutual exchange of kindnesses.
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Location: Great Lake Country
Posts: 333
Wow, the dry drunk thing hits pretty close to home, even before she was drinking. She does all of the things listed, except the 12 step, even before the drinking. On second reading, she never had nostalgia for the drinking life, but she has nostalgia for her ex-husband, who is a "functional" alcoholic.
Weird.....
Weird.....
To Thine Own Self Be True
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: So Cal
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Yikes, nope, no experience with that. I NEVER wanted my husband to know how much I was drinking or how many times that glass needed to be filled. And god forbid, I NEVER wanted him to say anything about my drinking and that kind of behavior might cause him to say something to me!
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I'd have to agree that it seems like she's looking for your implicit approval of her behavior (you don't say it's ok to drink until she passes out, but if you help her you must not think it's too bad a deal).
In the beginning (before I was aware of the extent of his drinking) my husband would often ask me to get him a beer. We would have a glass of wine together - I would refill his glass.
Fast-forward to the post-treatment, recovery period of our lives together and now....
my A is SUPER-DUPER private about any liquor. He knows it's a problem for him. He knows he is an alcoholic. When he falters and drinks, there is MUCH internal shame.
So now, I never see it. He never drinks in public, and has no interest in involving me in his relationship with alcohol.
Perhaps this is an interaction with her that will evolve as both parties' understanding of the problem evolves.
In the beginning (before I was aware of the extent of his drinking) my husband would often ask me to get him a beer. We would have a glass of wine together - I would refill his glass.
Fast-forward to the post-treatment, recovery period of our lives together and now....
my A is SUPER-DUPER private about any liquor. He knows it's a problem for him. He knows he is an alcoholic. When he falters and drinks, there is MUCH internal shame.
So now, I never see it. He never drinks in public, and has no interest in involving me in his relationship with alcohol.
Perhaps this is an interaction with her that will evolve as both parties' understanding of the problem evolves.
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Originally Posted by Reddmax 
Mine wants me to buy alcohol for her, or fill her glass when its empty. Not always, but lots of times. However, if I refuse, like last night, she gets furiously mad.
Did you get a chance to read that sticky that Jazzman posted earlier?
L
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You mention that she gets "furiously mad." What exactly does she do? Throw things at you? Cuss you out? Perhaps next time she expects you to play the servant role, you can simply say, "no," and walk out of the house. Get in your car and drive in circles if you have to. Actually, don't do that - the price of gas is too high to be wasting it!
I used to physically remove myself from the house when AH would start on a rant. He'd find himself speaking to thin air.
It sounds as if you are frightened by her outbursts. If you are, she knows it and will continue to use that against you.
It's her addiction. Let her get her own booze out of the fridge or wherever she keeps it. Mine semi-hides his. If I want a glass of wine, he "allows" me to watch him drink. When I don't want to drink, he hides it somewhere and drinks in his bedroom.
I never recall my AH asking me to get him a drink, but he certainly loved getting me one so I'd jump into the booze-a-thon with him. Once I lost interest in drinking with him or without him, that ended.
I used to physically remove myself from the house when AH would start on a rant. He'd find himself speaking to thin air.
It sounds as if you are frightened by her outbursts. If you are, she knows it and will continue to use that against you.
It's her addiction. Let her get her own booze out of the fridge or wherever she keeps it. Mine semi-hides his. If I want a glass of wine, he "allows" me to watch him drink. When I don't want to drink, he hides it somewhere and drinks in his bedroom.
I never recall my AH asking me to get him a drink, but he certainly loved getting me one so I'd jump into the booze-a-thon with him. Once I lost interest in drinking with him or without him, that ended.
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About 6 months ago I sat down with my AH and told him that I thought there was a problem with alcohol in our house. I did this when I knew him to be sober. At that point I told him that I was no longer going to buy his alcohol for him, nor retrieve any for him. He wasn't happy about it at the time, but since he was sober he didn't yell. After that there were a few temper tantrums when I wouldn't run to the store to replenish his stock and he was too lit to drive. I just walked away. Sometimes I say "remember, we talked about this". Now he doesn't even bother to ask anymore. Not that I'm sure it's an improvement because he's started driving to the store if he thinks he's not too lit.
I found that it sat better with me though even through the yelling, because I had set my boundary and was sticking to it. I'm learning that the person yelling and screaming when AH is drunk isn't worth letting myself get upset about. That person doesn't give one hoot about anyone but himself, and how to feed the gorilla (addiction).
I found that it sat better with me though even through the yelling, because I had set my boundary and was sticking to it. I'm learning that the person yelling and screaming when AH is drunk isn't worth letting myself get upset about. That person doesn't give one hoot about anyone but himself, and how to feed the gorilla (addiction).
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Originally Posted by Reddmax
I'm a bit curious about other people's experiences with their A. Mine wants me to buy alcohol for her..
I remember thinking he wasn't talking much sense, but not wanting to cause a disagreement I'd go to the shop (sometimes in the rain and wind etc!) and buy his alcohol. I remember feeling extremely resentful, why should I HAVE to go out...why was it only fair that I went too? I didn't need anything from the shop, I didn't want him wasting our money on alcohol, hell, I didn't even want him to drink.
Shortly afterwards I found this place. Reaslised I was codependant and that I was basically being taken for a mug.
Learning about enabling was empowering in a way, I learnt that there WAS other ways besides his way.
When I stopped enabling and told him I wouldn't be going to the shop for him ever again to buy alcohol he didn't like it one little bit. I was selfish and lazy, lol. I learnt to stop caring and it became laughable.
I agree with the others who have posted. It's time to look after yourself and start saying NO. You don't like her when she's drunk do you? So why make it easier for her?
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I don't recall my exAH asking me to buy or get him alcohol....by the time it was an "issue",I'm sure he knew my feelings and what my answer would be. Also; I am sure he did not want to take the chance I would forget,had he thought I would actually agree to it (not).
Every day on his way home from work he stopped and bought his nightly stash (or 2-day) and came in an filled the refrigerator (freezer if he had to buy them warm) with it. (The Christmas before he moved out I almost considered getting him a minifrig,just so I could use ours for the food,etc. It was an inconvenience....beer cans stuffed everywhere and sometime falling out and that ruckus!) He had a whole routine towards the end....buy,refrig,pop and drink 2 or 3 and then change clothes,get the mail and read the paper....in the TV room. No one else was welcome there,at that time either.
The kids and I got so we left him alone as much as we could.
He had the tantrums about other stuff.........even if he had to "invent" it. The last thing he wanted was any discussion or mention of anything having to do with his drinking.
(He did the pre-going out drinking then,too so it looked like he only had a drink or two to others. I heard after he moved out that he stoped drinking at all at any work functions,and I noticed that he had little or none at any family functions either.) He always had to look good in public; so much so that most people would be/are surprised if they only know him from work (he was the boss/owner for years and is now still a VP).
Every day on his way home from work he stopped and bought his nightly stash (or 2-day) and came in an filled the refrigerator (freezer if he had to buy them warm) with it. (The Christmas before he moved out I almost considered getting him a minifrig,just so I could use ours for the food,etc. It was an inconvenience....beer cans stuffed everywhere and sometime falling out and that ruckus!) He had a whole routine towards the end....buy,refrig,pop and drink 2 or 3 and then change clothes,get the mail and read the paper....in the TV room. No one else was welcome there,at that time either.
The kids and I got so we left him alone as much as we could.
He had the tantrums about other stuff.........even if he had to "invent" it. The last thing he wanted was any discussion or mention of anything having to do with his drinking.
(He did the pre-going out drinking then,too so it looked like he only had a drink or two to others. I heard after he moved out that he stoped drinking at all at any work functions,and I noticed that he had little or none at any family functions either.) He always had to look good in public; so much so that most people would be/are surprised if they only know him from work (he was the boss/owner for years and is now still a VP).
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I do remeber very well my father when drunk. He was a mean drunk and would pick a victim of the day as my brothers' and I came to call it later in life. He would pick one of us kids or mom as his target of the day and pick a fight. Could be over anything at all or nothing. And aften ended with hi using his fists on at least one of us.
Some folks are very angry when drunk. I have come to understand that my father's anger was outwardly directed at us but was really internal anger at himself for his perceived failures and faults.
That's the way exAH became (not to fists yet,but wasn't waiting for that),and why he had to leave our home and not return until treatment,etc. I agree about the self-anger and frustration,etc.;fwiw.
Some folks are very angry when drunk. I have come to understand that my father's anger was outwardly directed at us but was really internal anger at himself for his perceived failures and faults.
That's the way exAH became (not to fists yet,but wasn't waiting for that),and why he had to leave our home and not return until treatment,etc. I agree about the self-anger and frustration,etc.;fwiw.
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Originally Posted by Barbara52
I do remeber very well my father when drunk. He was a mean drunk and would pick a victim of the day as my brothers' and I came to call it later in life. He would pick one of us kids or mom as his target of the day and pick a fight. Could be over anything at all or nothing. And aften ended with hi using his fists on at least one of us.
Some folks are very angry when drunk. I have come to understand that my father's anger was outwardly directed at us but was really internal anger at himself for his perceived failures and faults.
Some folks are very angry when drunk. I have come to understand that my father's anger was outwardly directed at us but was really internal anger at himself for his perceived failures and faults.
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the same but other stuff
My ex AH was sober in AA and he still carried on this way but not with drinking but with other stuff. I.e he brought an illegal car and expected me to drive it, while he drove my legal one. It was okay for me to get in trouble but not him.
I think it is called self centredness, last time I checked!
And honest to god, hand on my heart he got furious when I started refusing to do that kind of stuff, hence why he is now Ex...
I think it is called self centredness, last time I checked!
And honest to god, hand on my heart he got furious when I started refusing to do that kind of stuff, hence why he is now Ex...
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Originally Posted by Reddmax
I'm a bit curious about other people's experiences with their A. Mine wants me to buy alcohol for her, or fill her glass when its empty. Not always, but lots of times. However, if I refuse, like last night, she gets furiously mad. Anyone had that happen to them?
Red
Red
Wonder what would happen if we put them together in the same room? Who would get the booze for them?
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All the posts were great. She does frighten me with her with her outbursts, because I understand there are no limits to her anger. Her Kids avoid her now when she's drunk, which is every night.
Last night, for example, following the advice of people here and other friends, I spent as much time busy as possible. I was staining trim in the garage. My AW was drinking and playing video games on the computer. After I was done, I came in and spend t some time with her co-playing the game. I got up to go to bed, stopped at the sink to get a drink of water, and heard a boom behind me.
She had fallen while trying to walk out of the office into the kitchen. Red wine was everywhere, on the floor, on the walls, glass everywhere. She had also hurt her knee. Now, as I've noted in other postings, I'm going to try and sell the house here in the near term. So, I had to clean the walls so they wouldn't stain permanently and cause me to reprime and repaint. She went staggering off to the bathroom. Then she started screaming at me to help her, and then cussing me out for not coming "right now". I didn't say a word, nor did I help her. When I went into the bedroom (because I wanted to go to bed), she was mean and condescending. I didn't react. I just laid down and watched TV.
5 minutes later, she was acting all nice. Then passed out. I had trouble going to sleep. Although I was proud that I didn't say anything this morning, yesterday I had a snippy remark to her. I think I'm getting better at this detachment stuff, but its a doozy.
Last night, for example, following the advice of people here and other friends, I spent as much time busy as possible. I was staining trim in the garage. My AW was drinking and playing video games on the computer. After I was done, I came in and spend t some time with her co-playing the game. I got up to go to bed, stopped at the sink to get a drink of water, and heard a boom behind me.
She had fallen while trying to walk out of the office into the kitchen. Red wine was everywhere, on the floor, on the walls, glass everywhere. She had also hurt her knee. Now, as I've noted in other postings, I'm going to try and sell the house here in the near term. So, I had to clean the walls so they wouldn't stain permanently and cause me to reprime and repaint. She went staggering off to the bathroom. Then she started screaming at me to help her, and then cussing me out for not coming "right now". I didn't say a word, nor did I help her. When I went into the bedroom (because I wanted to go to bed), she was mean and condescending. I didn't react. I just laid down and watched TV.
5 minutes later, she was acting all nice. Then passed out. I had trouble going to sleep. Although I was proud that I didn't say anything this morning, yesterday I had a snippy remark to her. I think I'm getting better at this detachment stuff, but its a doozy.
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Mine got to where they had the kids trained to just bring them another one if they walked by. The kids had it figured out that after so many beers they wouldn't be yelled at so they did what they could to get as many as they could.
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AskingWhy,
Same here. The step kids avoid talking about things like the plague. The daughter gets angry, starts a huge fight, then leaves, leaving me to pick up the pieces. The son just ignores stuff and leaves.
Same here. The step kids avoid talking about things like the plague. The daughter gets angry, starts a huge fight, then leaves, leaving me to pick up the pieces. The son just ignores stuff and leaves.
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