I Thought The World Was Backwards!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern cal
Posts: 84
I Thought The World Was Backwards!!
Unable to sleep, growing more frustrated by the minute....
Thinking how backwards life is sometimes....
We who are co-d spend a good part of our day trying to help others at the expense of ourselves. We get particular joy and satisfaction out of being needed....often compromising ourselves so others will be happy.
I tell ya, if the world was made up of all codies, there would be no war, fewer car accidents and a better shopping experience at The Home Depot.
Yes, I know that the problem exists when those who love to give are taken advantage of by those that love to take, namely our addicted loved ones.
But if it were a non-addict who was just selfish and we doted on them, it is WE who have the illness! What about them? Why is selfishness not blamed?
Also, I know addicts are operating in their disease and often don't know how poorly they treat us, their "co-pilots", but how long after rehab and into recovery do we allow them to use their free pass to continue being rude and selfish? Does behavior ever really change or is it just managed?
Thoughts?
Thinking how backwards life is sometimes....
We who are co-d spend a good part of our day trying to help others at the expense of ourselves. We get particular joy and satisfaction out of being needed....often compromising ourselves so others will be happy.
I tell ya, if the world was made up of all codies, there would be no war, fewer car accidents and a better shopping experience at The Home Depot.
Yes, I know that the problem exists when those who love to give are taken advantage of by those that love to take, namely our addicted loved ones.
But if it were a non-addict who was just selfish and we doted on them, it is WE who have the illness! What about them? Why is selfishness not blamed?
Also, I know addicts are operating in their disease and often don't know how poorly they treat us, their "co-pilots", but how long after rehab and into recovery do we allow them to use their free pass to continue being rude and selfish? Does behavior ever really change or is it just managed?
Thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by rivka 
Also, I know addicts are operating in their disease and often don't know how poorly they treat us, their "co-pilots", but how long after rehab and into recovery do we allow them to use their free pass to continue being rude and selfish? Does behavior ever really change or is it just managed?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
But I have to hold my tongue cause he is so early in his recovery he is not ready for it. So I start to wonder when and if it will ever be a good time. If his behavior will ever truly change or will he always be selfish and childish?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by rivka
... but how long after rehab and into recovery do we allow them to use their free pass to continue being rude and selfish? Does behavior ever really change or is it just managed?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
What matters is what we choose to allow in our lives and how we want to live it.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
Posts: 1,991
Originally Posted by Chino
The length of time doesn't matter and some behaviors change, some don't.
What matters is what we choose to allow in our lives and how we want to live it.
What matters is what we choose to allow in our lives and how we want to live it.
Its more about losing ourselves in another's actions, losing control of our own lives and actions and the willingness for forgo our own happiness for the will and whim of another.
Only we can stop the cycle.
(((Hugs)))
grateful rca
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
HI rivka, glad to meet you, i'm a recovering addict,a single mother of 7, married 22yrs off & on to an addict, sso i know how hard and unfair it is but trust me, it can get so much worse. maybe its time for you to take the focus off him and focus more on yourself. in my opinion, change sometimes does come but it can be a slow process. his change depends on the choices he make and it has nothing at all to do with what you do or don't do.
i completely lost me and almost lost my mind thinking i had to continue to bite my tongue for his benefit. no matter what i did or didn't do, he would always find something to blame me for as an excuse to go and use and i found myself miserable living totally in his world playing by his rules.
maybe its time for you the think about some changes that you can make for yourself and your daughter, that will benefit you and let him figure his own way out. dont mean to be harsh, just feel your pain and i know how much it hurts but i also know that you focusing on you just may help him more than you think. jmho
i completely lost me and almost lost my mind thinking i had to continue to bite my tongue for his benefit. no matter what i did or didn't do, he would always find something to blame me for as an excuse to go and use and i found myself miserable living totally in his world playing by his rules.
maybe its time for you the think about some changes that you can make for yourself and your daughter, that will benefit you and let him figure his own way out. dont mean to be harsh, just feel your pain and i know how much it hurts but i also know that you focusing on you just may help him more than you think. jmho
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My House
Posts: 1,122
I know what you mean.
I used to feel like I was just living for the day when my sister would realize (or care) how much she had hurt me. Then I realized that, as long as my parents are "protecting" her, ready to soften any and all blows, it may be a cold day in he** before I get any kind of acknowledgement from her on the subject.
Then I thought to myself: does it really matter that she hasn't apologized/ quit being so selfish? Is it fair that I should continue to be in pain because SHE isn't choosing to care about how I feel?
When I realized this, it became easier to let go of my anger, cope with it, and begin to heal on my own. But it took a lot of time.
I used to feel like I was just living for the day when my sister would realize (or care) how much she had hurt me. Then I realized that, as long as my parents are "protecting" her, ready to soften any and all blows, it may be a cold day in he** before I get any kind of acknowledgement from her on the subject.
Then I thought to myself: does it really matter that she hasn't apologized/ quit being so selfish? Is it fair that I should continue to be in pain because SHE isn't choosing to care about how I feel?
When I realized this, it became easier to let go of my anger, cope with it, and begin to heal on my own. But it took a lot of time.
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
I think that any time spent thinking that anyone will ever "get" how mistreated I've been is simply a huge waste. No one should ever get a hallpass for being unkind, disrespectful, manipulative, selfish, etc. That includes addicts, recovering addicts, non addicts, etc. It is up to me (us) to determine what is acceptable behavior and what I will expose myself to. Acceptance does not mean accepting poor treatment - it means acceptance that there might be a situation that I can't change in any other way than to have boundaries with consequences in place. Maybe what I have to do is remove myself from the situation.
You can be an extremely kind, compassionate, loving person without being co-dependent. It's all about the motives behind anything. Many times co-dependents hide their true motives from themselves - the kindness, love, compassion, etc. are all given with the price tag of expectations of how we will be treated in return. As in - if I care for you and tend to you, then you will realize how much you need me and will give me the love that I am craving. Until we learn to love in a healthy way, we are drawn again and again and again to those that are unavailable and can't love us in return.
Many people that are co-dependents are also relationship addicts. I've read alot of Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly. If you ever find yourself in a one-way love affair it is certainly an area to look into.
I abhor the victim role that I have played for so long - I now see how I teed myself up for the lousy treatment that I have received throughout my life. I've made poor choices in my relationships - finding people that weren't available to love me. I am powerless over a lot of things - and one of the biggest is my desire to be loved (especially by a romantic partner). I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side". Oh well - I thank God every single day that there is a path to walk that leads to recovery from all of our addictions. All of this is why I stand firmly on the principle that we truly are as sick as any addict in our lives that we think needs help.
I think that the world will become a better place when we all learn to honor ourselves and settle for nothing less in return. Easier said than done - I'm well aware. However, if I am taken advantage of because of my kindness then I know that I have set myself up. The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.
I guess I saying that I don't think that the world is upside down - I think that my way of living was upside down.
thanks for the interesting topic.
You can be an extremely kind, compassionate, loving person without being co-dependent. It's all about the motives behind anything. Many times co-dependents hide their true motives from themselves - the kindness, love, compassion, etc. are all given with the price tag of expectations of how we will be treated in return. As in - if I care for you and tend to you, then you will realize how much you need me and will give me the love that I am craving. Until we learn to love in a healthy way, we are drawn again and again and again to those that are unavailable and can't love us in return.
Many people that are co-dependents are also relationship addicts. I've read alot of Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly. If you ever find yourself in a one-way love affair it is certainly an area to look into.
I abhor the victim role that I have played for so long - I now see how I teed myself up for the lousy treatment that I have received throughout my life. I've made poor choices in my relationships - finding people that weren't available to love me. I am powerless over a lot of things - and one of the biggest is my desire to be loved (especially by a romantic partner). I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side". Oh well - I thank God every single day that there is a path to walk that leads to recovery from all of our addictions. All of this is why I stand firmly on the principle that we truly are as sick as any addict in our lives that we think needs help.
I think that the world will become a better place when we all learn to honor ourselves and settle for nothing less in return. Easier said than done - I'm well aware. However, if I am taken advantage of because of my kindness then I know that I have set myself up. The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.
I guess I saying that I don't think that the world is upside down - I think that my way of living was upside down.
thanks for the interesting topic.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern cal
Posts: 84
LightSeeker,
Again...your insight is right on and so clear....like applying medicine directly into the source of the wound to help it heal faster.
I gues the lack of sleep made me particularly irritated with myself and my situation. Though I am sometimes paralyzed by these issues, I am just as eager to get out and change my behaviors, often doing rash things to myself (like last night at midnight, cutting my hair...about 6 inches shorter and creating a new style in the blink of an eye...all with a household scissors...). I needed the drastic change to help manage my frustration I suppose. I don't injure myself...I just shock myself into change...weird.
I love coming here to the SR posts, but have a problem going to Anon meetings. While I empathize with everyone there, I often feel my issues are ridiculously small comparatively and am embarrassed to have my issue follow a sobbing single mom whose teenage addict daughter ran away with her cokehead boyfriend, or an abused wife of an AH dealing with hopelessness. It's not that I don't "deserve" help...i just don't think my issues are as literally life and death as many others are.
Meetings depress me. I just feel worse. At least here, I can support those courageous women, but can also focus specifically on those in situations like me...Im trying to work the steps too; I'm on step 2. I am comfortable with the "powerless, but not helpless" message, but think you hit it on the head, it's probably the low self esteem which makes glom onto anyone that shows me some real attention, addict or not.
I know that's MY issue...not the addicts. He can be as clean as a whistle, and if he shows me some attention or affection I might just wanna marry him!!
But ironically, I'm in my early 40s, never been married and haven't dated for years. I avoid relationships and was the passive person in this friendship/relationship with my addict guy, kind of treating him like anyone else, but then he encouraged the friendship, and phone chats and weekend hanging outs, and then grew into helping (now known as enabling!!) him when he took too many pills and needed to detox in private with me (his nursemaid/wanna be lover/friend).
You hit it on the head with several comments here, which I quoted below for our other thread visitors to use also.....in addition to the snippits of your response below, I continue to refer to the insight in your post to someone else about how we are in need of "emotional sobriety", along side those we call our addicts.
Regarding Emotional Sobriety you wrote:
These comments are perfect and very helpful:
Thanks again for the focused reply.
Many blessings to you.
rivka
Again...your insight is right on and so clear....like applying medicine directly into the source of the wound to help it heal faster.
I gues the lack of sleep made me particularly irritated with myself and my situation. Though I am sometimes paralyzed by these issues, I am just as eager to get out and change my behaviors, often doing rash things to myself (like last night at midnight, cutting my hair...about 6 inches shorter and creating a new style in the blink of an eye...all with a household scissors...). I needed the drastic change to help manage my frustration I suppose. I don't injure myself...I just shock myself into change...weird.
I love coming here to the SR posts, but have a problem going to Anon meetings. While I empathize with everyone there, I often feel my issues are ridiculously small comparatively and am embarrassed to have my issue follow a sobbing single mom whose teenage addict daughter ran away with her cokehead boyfriend, or an abused wife of an AH dealing with hopelessness. It's not that I don't "deserve" help...i just don't think my issues are as literally life and death as many others are.
Meetings depress me. I just feel worse. At least here, I can support those courageous women, but can also focus specifically on those in situations like me...Im trying to work the steps too; I'm on step 2. I am comfortable with the "powerless, but not helpless" message, but think you hit it on the head, it's probably the low self esteem which makes glom onto anyone that shows me some real attention, addict or not.
I know that's MY issue...not the addicts. He can be as clean as a whistle, and if he shows me some attention or affection I might just wanna marry him!!
But ironically, I'm in my early 40s, never been married and haven't dated for years. I avoid relationships and was the passive person in this friendship/relationship with my addict guy, kind of treating him like anyone else, but then he encouraged the friendship, and phone chats and weekend hanging outs, and then grew into helping (now known as enabling!!) him when he took too many pills and needed to detox in private with me (his nursemaid/wanna be lover/friend).
You hit it on the head with several comments here, which I quoted below for our other thread visitors to use also.....in addition to the snippits of your response below, I continue to refer to the insight in your post to someone else about how we are in need of "emotional sobriety", along side those we call our addicts.
Regarding Emotional Sobriety you wrote:
Emotional sobriety does not mean that I don't have anger, fear, pain, worry, etc. It just means that I am taking good enough care of my self that those emotions don't rule me and my behaviors. It still happens to me but I'm subscribing to progress, not perfection. Each time I get emotionally drunk I go back to the basics and figure out what I need to change in me to prevent it from happening again (ie eat, sleep, connect with friends, pray, better boundaries, firm consequences, etc). Once I committed to my emotional sobriety I have been able to look at RAH and my marriage completely differently. Nothing is more important to me than that because without that I have nothing. I am a rotten/preoccupied mother without it, a body performing my work instead of being completely present, and no good to myself. It's the same way that an addict has to put his/her sobriety and recovery first. Anything that they put before that is something that they will lose anyway. It is the same for me - if I don't protect my emotional sobriety I will lose everything - including my life. Live and let live can literally mean exactly that.
These comments are perfect and very helpful:
You can be an extremely kind, compassionate, loving person without being co-dependent. It's all about the motives behind anything. Many times co-dependents hide their true motives from themselves - the kindness, love, compassion, etc. are all given with the price tag of expectations of how we will be treated in return.
Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly
I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side".
The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.
I guess I saying that I don't think that the world is upside down - I think that my way of living was upside down.
Charlotte Kasl's work - her book Women, Sex, and Addiction was the biggest eye opener for me. I realized how my relationship addiction played into my co-dependency/alcoholic tendencies perfectly
I have lowered my standards in the past to feed my addiction - the addiction to love and other people. Until I began learning to love myself from the inside out I wasn't able to make healthy decisions in relationships. I always had an excuse about how this person was "different, not understood, just needed someone on their side".
The 4th step helped me to take a close look at all the resentments that I had accumulated through the years - now I see how my denial, perception issues, low self esteem, self-delusion, poor boundaries all set me up for what ended up being my resentments.
I guess I saying that I don't think that the world is upside down - I think that my way of living was upside down.
Many blessings to you.
rivka
gottaquithis
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
this is[B] a very good thread, I can relate to almost everything written here. The expectations thing, oh yea, thats me. How do we stop that? I'm 50 some, never been married, lots of relationships........ Been working on myself for a very long time, I guess its gonna be a life long process, for some reason I keep hoping I'll just get there. lol. Currently in a 7-8 year relationship that spun out of control years ago but I thought I should stay in there and try. I think its about over though because recently, out of pure exhaustion, I have taken myself out of the middle of it, walked away, just said I need some time to myself. He is going back and forth between missing me and being upset to being angry. I set a boundary for now to not talk about us unless there is a counselor present. So far I've let him cross this boundary 3 times, gosh this make me mad, I wish I could be stronger. More later. I love this thread.
thanks gottaquitthis
thanks gottaquitthis
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