I get myself in trouble . . . feedback?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
I get myself in trouble . . . feedback?
Hi everyone,
I feel stupid, confused, anxious and would like a little support/feedback to help sort myself out.
My AS (27 yrs old) called late Thursday afternoon with a story about his pay check, not having access to the funds, blah, blah, blah. I ended up taking a personal check for $100, deposited via the ATM to my account and gave him $80 cash. All the while saying "If this check bounces, I will never talk to you again." With assurances from him that it was a good check. I spent the next 2 1/2 days worrying about it - needless to say I didn't have enough in my account to cover the check to begin with. I asked my adult daughter (24 yrs old) if I could borrow $ to cover the check and explained to her why (she has no contact with her brother.) At first she said she would lend it to me if I agreed to turn off & give her my cell phone. I called AS and told him I was worried about the check ("Don't worry Mom, it is good.") and decided to borrow $ to cover it but the person I was borrowing from needed my cell phone as collateral. He said what if I want to talk to you??? After same 2 1/2 days of my daughter being on again/off again angry w/me for believing AS is gonna change, she didn't want to lend me the $. (I ended up borrowing from my sister yesterday.)
Like a pansy, I left a message for my AS on Saturday night "just to say hi", I left a message for my AS on Sunday morning saying I shouldn't have to be this worried about his check bouncing. I won't take personal checks in the future, I would only help if it is an actual payroll check. That part of the turning my phone over to someone else was to give me a break as he only calls to ask for money. I said I didn't want him calling me at home, it is my personal space and I need the time at home to repair and relax.
I feel scared (where is he, what is he doing, is he ok???) I know, I am addicted to the insanity! I'm trying, I just started going to NARAnon on Thursday nights and have been attending Alanon for quite some time. Do I call him today to check up on him? Do I just wait to see if he calls me? I feel strong for about 2 minutes, then sink back into worrying about my baby and thinking if I could just hug him and tell him it will all be ok, it will!
Thanks, Joan
I feel stupid, confused, anxious and would like a little support/feedback to help sort myself out.
My AS (27 yrs old) called late Thursday afternoon with a story about his pay check, not having access to the funds, blah, blah, blah. I ended up taking a personal check for $100, deposited via the ATM to my account and gave him $80 cash. All the while saying "If this check bounces, I will never talk to you again." With assurances from him that it was a good check. I spent the next 2 1/2 days worrying about it - needless to say I didn't have enough in my account to cover the check to begin with. I asked my adult daughter (24 yrs old) if I could borrow $ to cover the check and explained to her why (she has no contact with her brother.) At first she said she would lend it to me if I agreed to turn off & give her my cell phone. I called AS and told him I was worried about the check ("Don't worry Mom, it is good.") and decided to borrow $ to cover it but the person I was borrowing from needed my cell phone as collateral. He said what if I want to talk to you??? After same 2 1/2 days of my daughter being on again/off again angry w/me for believing AS is gonna change, she didn't want to lend me the $. (I ended up borrowing from my sister yesterday.)
Like a pansy, I left a message for my AS on Saturday night "just to say hi", I left a message for my AS on Sunday morning saying I shouldn't have to be this worried about his check bouncing. I won't take personal checks in the future, I would only help if it is an actual payroll check. That part of the turning my phone over to someone else was to give me a break as he only calls to ask for money. I said I didn't want him calling me at home, it is my personal space and I need the time at home to repair and relax.
I feel scared (where is he, what is he doing, is he ok???) I know, I am addicted to the insanity! I'm trying, I just started going to NARAnon on Thursday nights and have been attending Alanon for quite some time. Do I call him today to check up on him? Do I just wait to see if he calls me? I feel strong for about 2 minutes, then sink back into worrying about my baby and thinking if I could just hug him and tell him it will all be ok, it will!
Thanks, Joan
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
What you really need to do is focus on YOU. Worrying about him, wanting to know how/where he is, is just going to keep you in a state of total chaos. Besides, even if you DO talk to him, you wouldn't know if he was telling the truth..I say that because you aren't trusting him at his word about the check being good.
As long as you keep helping him out (like cashing the check), he is going to keep manipulating you.
I don't have kids, but I've done the same thing with other A's in my life. I finally had to hit MY bottom before I stopped letting them take advantage of me.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
As long as you keep helping him out (like cashing the check), he is going to keep manipulating you.
I don't have kids, but I've done the same thing with other A's in my life. I finally had to hit MY bottom before I stopped letting them take advantage of me.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My House
Posts: 1,122
Impurrfect said it perfectly 
I wanted to add a different perspective to this. I fit into your situation as the daughter. My sister is like your son, and my mom is like you. In fact, just like you. I've lent my parents money several times when they have fallen short because of dealings with my sister. I've gotten to the point now where I avoid any financial transactions with them at all cost, because it puts a strain on my marriage, not to mention my bank account, which is not generally any better than theirs... but I digress.
It sounds like you have a daughter there who loves you very much and wants to be close to you. Are you two taking any kind of precautions to attempt to keep your relationship intact? Can you be around her for more than fifteen minutes without talking about her brother? I'm sure it hurts her to see you like this, and probably even makes her that much more annoyed/ angry with her brother.
Suggestion: Can you and your daughter get together sometime, maybe order a pizza and rent a movie, and just have a girls' night? A girls' night, of course, where you avoid talking about your son. Just give yourself a little mini vacation from all this chaos. I know it sounds difficult, but believe me; it will be worth it.
To me, the easiest way to quit obsessing over my addict was to limit my contact with her, just like your daughter has done with her brother. My mom insists that this is easier for me because she's not my daughter, which is probably true; but it was still not easy. Coming here often has really helped me. The people here have helped me to learn that I have got to take care of myself first. After all, worrying about the addict does not get them any closer to treatment... it only puts those of us who are worrying a step closer to the nut house
I wanted to add a different perspective to this. I fit into your situation as the daughter. My sister is like your son, and my mom is like you. In fact, just like you. I've lent my parents money several times when they have fallen short because of dealings with my sister. I've gotten to the point now where I avoid any financial transactions with them at all cost, because it puts a strain on my marriage, not to mention my bank account, which is not generally any better than theirs... but I digress.
It sounds like you have a daughter there who loves you very much and wants to be close to you. Are you two taking any kind of precautions to attempt to keep your relationship intact? Can you be around her for more than fifteen minutes without talking about her brother? I'm sure it hurts her to see you like this, and probably even makes her that much more annoyed/ angry with her brother.
Suggestion: Can you and your daughter get together sometime, maybe order a pizza and rent a movie, and just have a girls' night? A girls' night, of course, where you avoid talking about your son. Just give yourself a little mini vacation from all this chaos. I know it sounds difficult, but believe me; it will be worth it.
To me, the easiest way to quit obsessing over my addict was to limit my contact with her, just like your daughter has done with her brother. My mom insists that this is easier for me because she's not my daughter, which is probably true; but it was still not easy. Coming here often has really helped me. The people here have helped me to learn that I have got to take care of myself first. After all, worrying about the addict does not get them any closer to treatment... it only puts those of us who are worrying a step closer to the nut house
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
ladyamalthea, thanks for the sibling perspective. My daughter and I actually rent an apartment together.
She and I spent the 4th together, went to the local parade and fireworks. We also watched a movie together on Saturday.
She doesn't have many friends so is dependent upon me for much of her socialization.
Families, what a struggle!
She and I spent the 4th together, went to the local parade and fireworks. We also watched a movie together on Saturday.
She doesn't have many friends so is dependent upon me for much of her socialization.
Families, what a struggle!
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
Just had the same kind of situation here. My son worked, they gave him a check, and since he has no account, he couldn't cash it, so he called here.
We have played this check cashing game for a long time, and Mr. Moose and I decided we do not want to do it anymore. We do not want to worry even one tiny bit that it will bounce. Therefore we have closed our personal bank to our son.
Hugs,
We have played this check cashing game for a long time, and Mr. Moose and I decided we do not want to do it anymore. We do not want to worry even one tiny bit that it will bounce. Therefore we have closed our personal bank to our son.
Hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
mooselips,
Thanks - I think I've found every story my son has ever told me on SR from other folks. Makes me feel good I'm not alone, but makes me feel sad that he's caught up in the addiction.
For the moment I'm telling myself "Don't worry about not hearing from him. This is exactly what you wanted - a break from the constant problems and requests for money."
Joan
Thanks - I think I've found every story my son has ever told me on SR from other folks. Makes me feel good I'm not alone, but makes me feel sad that he's caught up in the addiction.
For the moment I'm telling myself "Don't worry about not hearing from him. This is exactly what you wanted - a break from the constant problems and requests for money."
Joan
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 62
Do I call him today to check up on him? Do I just wait to see if he calls me? I feel strong for about 2 minutes, then sink back into worrying about my baby and thinking if I could just hug him and tell him it will all be ok, it will!
You need to take care of yourself, because an addiction in your family can definitly have an impact just as negative for you, as it does for the addicted family member. I look back on the time in my life when I thought I could make my brother 'better' - I feel like I've lost a good 8 months of my life, because I didn't think about myself once during that time. I was too afraid to have a good time or be happy about anything going well for me - I wanted any good luck to go towards my brother getting better. Please don't let yourself fall into that trap, and remember to think about yourself and your well-being.
Survivor
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 149
This was a article that helped me, hope it will help you.
How Alcohol and Drug Addiction Affects Family Members
Henry Tarkington
The longer alcohol and drug abusers use their drugs of choice, the worse their lives become. Until they are firmly in recovery, this continues in a downward spiral until they end up in jail, insane, or dead. "Firmly" in recovery means working a program or attending counseling consistently with a lot of commitment. People who just show up at meetings, counseling, or groups are not necessarily committed to recovery. This is just as true for family members.
Family members are affected by the increased problems that addiction causes. The drugs and alcohol used by the substance abuser are "intoxicants." This means that they use substances knowing that they will become intoxicated - high or drunk.
Over a period of time, many family members begin to experience emotions that leave them "intoxicated" as well. These emotions are called "Intoxicant Emotions." They include shame, guilt, resentment, self-pity, worry, and anger. These emotions "intoxicate" a person in that they change the way someone feels when he or she indulges in them. An "intoxicant emotion" (IE) such as shame often causes a person to hide, be secretive, feel depressed, or unable to sleep.
This is similar to the way an alcoholic or addict may feel when using or coming off his/her drug of choice. Intoxicant emotions may energize a person or slow him down so that he or she can't function well. Sometimes these emotional states are as unpredictable as those that affect the alcoholic when he/she picks up a drink or drug.
Family members follow the same downward spiral as an alcoholic or addict.
There are 4 stages of family illness before the family either "bottoms out" or enters recovery.
The first stage is the Concern Stage. This is the stage where family members are acting out of a genuine concern. They are only beginning to experience the effects of alcohol and drug abuse by a loved one. Family members at this stage have no idea what they are up against.
The second phase is the Defense Stage. This happens after the "first blockout" where the family members have blocked out the reality of the situation and are going in and out of denial. Addicts and alcoholics often experience during "blockouts."
During this stage, families are preoccupied with the addict's or alcoholic's behavior. They protect the addict by lying to other family members, employers, or to others about his behavior. While tolerating the addict's behavior, they feel increasingly responsible for the family problems. The result is the "blockouts" increase, too. They can't remember all the negative behavior of the addict and tend to minimize the consequences.
After repeated "blockouts" comes the Adaptation Phase. During this phase, family members try to change their own behavior to adapt to the chemically dependent person's behavior. This is a critical phase that may cause family members to either become obsessed with the addict, or they may begin to drink or use drugs themselves.
Family members may attempt to become "the perfect person" hoping that will make the addict/alcoholic happy and change his/her ways. It is at this time that family members may begin to feel they are "losing their minds," become absent minded, feel like failures, and need medical or mental health care. They often give so much to others that they have nothing left to take care of themselves.
Next comes the Exhaustion Phase, when family members defend their use of intoxicant emotions, just like the addict defends his use of drugs or alcohol. They lose their self-worth and experience severe anxiety or depression. All excuses fail and fear rules their lives. They have reached their "bottom."
Just as when addicts reach their bottom, family members must choose to admit the problem and recover, face insanity or death. They absolutely cannot go on the way things are. When they reach this point, family members must admit their problems and accept help in dealing with them.
How Alcohol and Drug Addiction Affects Family Members
Henry Tarkington
The longer alcohol and drug abusers use their drugs of choice, the worse their lives become. Until they are firmly in recovery, this continues in a downward spiral until they end up in jail, insane, or dead. "Firmly" in recovery means working a program or attending counseling consistently with a lot of commitment. People who just show up at meetings, counseling, or groups are not necessarily committed to recovery. This is just as true for family members.
Family members are affected by the increased problems that addiction causes. The drugs and alcohol used by the substance abuser are "intoxicants." This means that they use substances knowing that they will become intoxicated - high or drunk.
Over a period of time, many family members begin to experience emotions that leave them "intoxicated" as well. These emotions are called "Intoxicant Emotions." They include shame, guilt, resentment, self-pity, worry, and anger. These emotions "intoxicate" a person in that they change the way someone feels when he or she indulges in them. An "intoxicant emotion" (IE) such as shame often causes a person to hide, be secretive, feel depressed, or unable to sleep.
This is similar to the way an alcoholic or addict may feel when using or coming off his/her drug of choice. Intoxicant emotions may energize a person or slow him down so that he or she can't function well. Sometimes these emotional states are as unpredictable as those that affect the alcoholic when he/she picks up a drink or drug.
Family members follow the same downward spiral as an alcoholic or addict.
There are 4 stages of family illness before the family either "bottoms out" or enters recovery.
The first stage is the Concern Stage. This is the stage where family members are acting out of a genuine concern. They are only beginning to experience the effects of alcohol and drug abuse by a loved one. Family members at this stage have no idea what they are up against.
The second phase is the Defense Stage. This happens after the "first blockout" where the family members have blocked out the reality of the situation and are going in and out of denial. Addicts and alcoholics often experience during "blockouts."
During this stage, families are preoccupied with the addict's or alcoholic's behavior. They protect the addict by lying to other family members, employers, or to others about his behavior. While tolerating the addict's behavior, they feel increasingly responsible for the family problems. The result is the "blockouts" increase, too. They can't remember all the negative behavior of the addict and tend to minimize the consequences.
After repeated "blockouts" comes the Adaptation Phase. During this phase, family members try to change their own behavior to adapt to the chemically dependent person's behavior. This is a critical phase that may cause family members to either become obsessed with the addict, or they may begin to drink or use drugs themselves.
Family members may attempt to become "the perfect person" hoping that will make the addict/alcoholic happy and change his/her ways. It is at this time that family members may begin to feel they are "losing their minds," become absent minded, feel like failures, and need medical or mental health care. They often give so much to others that they have nothing left to take care of themselves.
Next comes the Exhaustion Phase, when family members defend their use of intoxicant emotions, just like the addict defends his use of drugs or alcohol. They lose their self-worth and experience severe anxiety or depression. All excuses fail and fear rules their lives. They have reached their "bottom."
Just as when addicts reach their bottom, family members must choose to admit the problem and recover, face insanity or death. They absolutely cannot go on the way things are. When they reach this point, family members must admit their problems and accept help in dealing with them.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: southern cal
Posts: 84
Hi JMF-
Ditto to all above posts.
Not sure I can add anything, but support...they've all said it well.
WE, who coddle are the ones who are emotionally drunk and need to get thinking sober. It's work to separate the "caring" from "codependence".
I'm struggling too with the separation, but am reading and re-reading the "taking care of yourself" recommendations. Don't take this as being selfish, it's just required maintenance for your physical and mental health so you (and the rest of us too) can be prepared to handle the road ahead with sanity.
I learned a lesson from lending my A guy $350 cash for rent about 3 months ago....I waited about 3 weeks then started to think....what have I done? I'm either enabling him to use the money to feed his addiction (that he swore he was over)...or to use for rent b/c he used his rent money to feed his addiction.
In hindsight I see that he should get an Oscar for the great acting, and a Writers Guild award for the stories he comes up with that are so real and empathetic.
Seriously, he's not that creative in his job...I guess years of having to manipulate people has taught him well.
He's in rehab now, so I'm trying to grow myself beyond needing to coddle him and will try to separate myself from "needing" his attention and approval (that's why this forum for Codies is so strong...there are many examples and scenarios similar to yours that you can take and learn from).
God Bless and keep us updated.
rivka
Ditto to all above posts.
Not sure I can add anything, but support...they've all said it well.
WE, who coddle are the ones who are emotionally drunk and need to get thinking sober. It's work to separate the "caring" from "codependence".
I'm struggling too with the separation, but am reading and re-reading the "taking care of yourself" recommendations. Don't take this as being selfish, it's just required maintenance for your physical and mental health so you (and the rest of us too) can be prepared to handle the road ahead with sanity.
I learned a lesson from lending my A guy $350 cash for rent about 3 months ago....I waited about 3 weeks then started to think....what have I done? I'm either enabling him to use the money to feed his addiction (that he swore he was over)...or to use for rent b/c he used his rent money to feed his addiction.
In hindsight I see that he should get an Oscar for the great acting, and a Writers Guild award for the stories he comes up with that are so real and empathetic.
Seriously, he's not that creative in his job...I guess years of having to manipulate people has taught him well.
He's in rehab now, so I'm trying to grow myself beyond needing to coddle him and will try to separate myself from "needing" his attention and approval (that's why this forum for Codies is so strong...there are many examples and scenarios similar to yours that you can take and learn from).
God Bless and keep us updated.
rivka
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 697
As long as you have an ID you can cash your check at most grocery stores, Walmart, etc. You can also open checking accounts at many banks who do not do credit checks, but likely have high NFS fees. He can also go to the bank where the check was drawn on and cash it there (again, needs an ID.)
I think he needs to figure this stuff out on his own.
I think he needs to figure this stuff out on his own.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
It looks like the check is bouncing, I shouldn't be surprised. I'm not, just sad . . . now I gotta follow through on my threat of no contact. Am I strong enough for this road ahead? I sure hope so! Please send prayers of support.
I haven't heard from him since I talked to him on Friday, 07/04 anyway . . . that's an all time record for no communication between us.
Thanks for the wonderful messages, it makes me feel a hug of strength surrounding me.
Joan
I haven't heard from him since I talked to him on Friday, 07/04 anyway . . . that's an all time record for no communication between us.
Thanks for the wonderful messages, it makes me feel a hug of strength surrounding me.
Joan
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My House
Posts: 1,122
Originally Posted by JMFburns 
Am I strong enough for this road ahead? I sure hope so!
We're all behind you!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Layton, Utah
Posts: 60
:praying
We have all done something like this.
If you need to for now spend alot of time communicating with others like you.
It's somethign to hold onto while you feel like you are losing your mind with fear.
At some point you will get strong.
There was a week when I found this place that every spare moment I just read and read here. It was sort of like hanging on to a lifeline day and night.
We have all done something like this.
If you need to for now spend alot of time communicating with others like you.
It's somethign to hold onto while you feel like you are losing your mind with fear.
At some point you will get strong.
There was a week when I found this place that every spare moment I just read and read here. It was sort of like hanging on to a lifeline day and night.
grateful rca
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: atlanta, ga.
Posts: 4,671
hi, sorry you are going through all of this, you sound so strong, even though i know you may not think so. i'm a ra, married though seperated to an addict and i know how worry can take over when u don't know where they are. my ah will disappear without a trace sometimes for wks. thats what addicts do, my guess is, he's probably found a way to cash that check and is possibly still out using, if so, he'll probably surface after the money is gone and he has no other choice. try to focus on you, it will only get better for him when he decides its time. you sound like a very good mom, his actions has nothing to do with you.
the decisions you make for yourself may be the most loving thing you can do for your son. it took for my family to step back and let me fall by myself for me to see how destructive my life had become. i'm sure it wasn't easy for them but i'm eternally grateful that they did. i was forced to make a decision to seek help for myself.
keeping you and your family in my prayers
the decisions you make for yourself may be the most loving thing you can do for your son. it took for my family to step back and let me fall by myself for me to see how destructive my life had become. i'm sure it wasn't easy for them but i'm eternally grateful that they did. i was forced to make a decision to seek help for myself.
keeping you and your family in my prayers
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
Yeah anvilhead, I do see my son as my baby, incapable of taking care of himself and needing my love, hugs, and support and I see my daughter as strong and capable. I really, really know what the best thing to do now is - let AS take care of himself, succeed (sp?) or fail and it is time for me to take care of myself, mind my own business, rely on my HP. But worry that I can carry it out.
Everyones encouragement really helps, THANK YOU!!!
Everyones encouragement really helps, THANK YOU!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burnsville, MN
Posts: 966
Update - I kinda feel like a idiot.
My bank is returning the check to me before even attempting to process it. Don't know why yet, it was a "starter" check (new account), was it made out to me, did I sign the back . . . ??? I just don't know. I don't feel like I can redeposit it - caused me so much paid and anguish the first time around it's just not worth it.
So basically I gave him $80. Doesn't matter, he took $260 from me two weeks before that so . . . whatever he's doing with the money can't be good. My sickness, codependency, etc. is still the issue, right???
Like a spineless fool, I look for the easy way - some defining event that I can use to say "There, I can't talk to you anymore." An excuse to use other than taking responsibility for making my own decision. Is that crazy?
Joan
So basically I gave him $80. Doesn't matter, he took $260 from me two weeks before that so . . . whatever he's doing with the money can't be good. My sickness, codependency, etc. is still the issue, right???
Like a spineless fool, I look for the easy way - some defining event that I can use to say "There, I can't talk to you anymore." An excuse to use other than taking responsibility for making my own decision. Is that crazy?
Joan
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My House
Posts: 1,122
If you don't mind me saying so, it sounds like you've had several events lately that would be good reasons to detach with love. He has violated your trust countless times.
Anvilhead is right... the less you think of him as your baby, and the more you try to think of him as the grown man who has to learn to fend for himself, the easier it may be to step back a little.
Anvilhead is right... the less you think of him as your baby, and the more you try to think of him as the grown man who has to learn to fend for himself, the easier it may be to step back a little.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Sweetie, you're not a spineless fool. You're just findng your way to YOUR bottom.
Unfortunately, most of us have been-there-done-that. If I had the money back that I had "loaned" to the A's in my life, I wouldn't be so far into debt!
Only you will know when you've had enough. Keep focusing on you, and remember that he is an adult (like Anvil said) and is perfectly capable of handling his own issues.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Unfortunately, most of us have been-there-done-that. If I had the money back that I had "loaned" to the A's in my life, I wouldn't be so far into debt!
Only you will know when you've had enough. Keep focusing on you, and remember that he is an adult (like Anvil said) and is perfectly capable of handling his own issues.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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