OMG! He did it AGAIN!

Old 07-06-2008, 11:26 PM
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Can't make sense out of crazy.
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Angry OMG! He did it AGAIN!

My 11 yo daughter begged to go to her fathers apt. and spend the night.

And he freaking left her there again late at night to go out to bars and most likely with his other woman.

Again. I am surprised and I know I shouldn't be, but I am.

She called me at 12:15am and LIED to me telling me her dad was there asleep, but that she couldn't sleep and had anxiety.
(she has anxiety issues anyhow which are compounded by being at her father's apt, she has a hard time going to sleep before 2am when he IS there, let alone when he's gone off and left her!)
She can't sleep tonight and decided to just blurt it out at 1am about him leaving and going out again.

He KNOWS she is scared at his apt, even when he is there (its in a not so great part of a city)
He KNOWS all about her anxiety issues and he KNOWS what a hard time she has falling asleep there.

The last time this happened, I went off on him about it - about how it puts stress and pressure on her, about how scared and anxious she was/is, about how WRONG it is, about how when he did it before he told her not to tell me about it, about how it was teaching her to lie and keep "bad" secrets from me, her mother.

In his "defense" her 18yo brother was there with her. BUT he was sleeping both times (sleeps like the dead too) AND he is permanently disabled. In a wheelchair and has learning disabilities (was born with spina bifida) so, really, what kind of "protection" is that?

I just can't freaking believe it.
WHO is this man who was once a great husband and father? Unbelieveable.

Now I don't know what the best way to handle it is. Because as much as she doesn't like being left while he goes out, she still wants to go over there and spend time.
I guess I'll just have to be straight with her and insist, for her safety, that she not spend the night anymore.
I just don't want to be portrayed as a mad ex-wife to be in court who is trying to use her daughter against her soon to be exah, or whatever nonsense he and a lawyer would come up with. I know the courts don't look kindly on a parent who tries to keep a child away from the noncustodial parent - but what choice do I have?

I think the best thing to do is to get her into counseling asap, so there is a third party to help her deal with this and to document and all of that so its not my word against his and all that.

Hurting me beyond belief is one thing, hurting our child is all together different.

This is all so sickening and sad and just horrible. I never thought we'd end up in this terrible place.

I just can't believe the things he's doing.
OMG I am just so mad I could spit nails.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:55 PM
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So that you DON'T look like the mad ex wife in court....start documenting everything NOW....
Write down each time either kid has gone to stay with him only to discover he went out and left them there alone.
Dates - times - if you know for a Fact that he was with any other woman, mention that also....Everything.

Ask a counselor or atty. about documentation.
Your own counts !!

Your 11 yr. old daughter needs to understand it is not safe for her to stay with him....he is UNreliable.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:36 AM
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I agree - she is old enough to understand - if you are able to sit down with her and explain it to her.

Documenting it all is definitely the best to do - I'm not so sure you or your children having contact with him is a good idea - I can't imagine what it's doing to your health!

Since being away from the alcoholic in my life and surrounding myself with normal, sane and sensible people who care for me - life has been so much better. Sorry, you might not want to hear this - but my move would be to get away from this man before he drives you all crazy.....
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:47 AM
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A child of 11 is not capable of making sensible decisions
as to a darn thing. That is your deal and
yes counseling for her is a sensible decision.

Good for you...
Prayers coming your way
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:26 AM
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Sometimes the decisions we need to make for our childs safety as parents puts us in a negative light with our children, but as she is far to young to keep herself safe, I agree that you need to lay down the law on this one.

Log all incidents as suggested. He's being true to his addict ways, you are the only functioning adult around at the moment, keep true to yourself and your children.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:22 AM
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In times like this it helps me to remember

He's not doing it TO you, he's just doing it.

A's do what they do. They don't do those things to hurt people or to be irresponsible. They do those things because they are A's.

Hugs for you and extra hugs for your daughter in this difficult time.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:03 AM
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(((((strongerwoman)))))

He is just doing what he does. It is what you do from this moment forward that counts. This is your life and your children's.

Love does not laid down. Love takes action. Nagging and complaining is an action to yet does it keep us in the same place. You already know the potential outcome when dealing with your H act accordingly.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:15 AM
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Have you talked to an attorney? Perhaps you can get a separation agreement that includes only supervised visitation and no overnight visits. Its certainly worth checking out to protect your daughter.

Getting her into therapy is a great idea too. It will help her no matter what goes on.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:23 AM
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OK, as the daughter of divorced parents, my dad would take every opportunity to paint my mom in a bad light. My mom said absolutely nothing about him. (I never confronted her about the things he said, I just believed him). And yes, there was animosity for several years as a teenager (show me a teenager without angst!!). But you know what? I learned the truth all on my own. As an adult, I realize how wrong of him it was. And I respect my mother even more for keeping her mouth shut.

I’ve thought about divorce, and if I went that route, I would DEFINATELY get my kids into counseling.

As a parent, there is no way I would allow my 11 year old daughter to be alone all night. Period. You may even want to check your local laws. I know where I’m at, it’s illegal to leave children under the age of 12 without PROPER supervision. No offense to her brother, but if he is disabled, he may not be considered as “proper” supervision. I would explain plainly, with the authority I have as a parent, that I am not trying to prevent her from seeing her father, but at the same time, I refuse to put her in an unsafe (and potentially illegal) situation.

(((hugs)))

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Old 07-07-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by strongerwoman View Post
My 11 yo daughter begged to go to her fathers apt. and spend the night.

And he freaking left her there again late at night to go out to bars and most likely with his other woman.

Again. I am surprised and I know I shouldn't be, but I am.

She called me at 12:15am and LIED to me telling me her dad was there asleep, but that she couldn't sleep and had anxiety.
(she has anxiety issues anyhow which are compounded by being at her father's apt, she has a hard time going to sleep before 2am when he IS there, let alone when he's gone off and left her!)
She can't sleep tonight and decided to just blurt it out at 1am about him leaving and going out again.

He KNOWS she is scared at his apt, even when he is there (its in a not so great part of a city)
He KNOWS all about her anxiety issues and he KNOWS what a hard time she has falling asleep there.

The last time this happened, I went off on him about it - about how it puts stress and pressure on her, about how scared and anxious she was/is, about how WRONG it is, about how when he did it before he told her not to tell me about it, about how it was teaching her to lie and keep "bad" secrets from me, her mother.

In his "defense" her 18yo brother was there with her. BUT he was sleeping both times (sleeps like the dead too) AND he is permanently disabled. In a wheelchair and has learning disabilities (was born with spina bifida) so, really, what kind of "protection" is that?

I just can't freaking believe it.
WHO is this man who was once a great husband and father? Unbelieveable.

Now I don't know what the best way to handle it is. Because as much as she doesn't like being left while he goes out, she still wants to go over there and spend time.
I guess I'll just have to be straight with her and insist, for her safety, that she not spend the night anymore.
I just don't want to be portrayed as a mad ex-wife to be in court who is trying to use her daughter against her soon to be exah, or whatever nonsense he and a lawyer would come up with. I know the courts don't look kindly on a parent who tries to keep a child away from the noncustodial parent - but what choice do I have?

I think the best thing to do is to get her into counseling asap, so there is a third party to help her deal with this and to document and all of that so its not my word against his and all that.

Hurting me beyond belief is one thing, hurting our child is all together different.

This is all so sickening and sad and just horrible. I never thought we'd end up in this terrible place.

I just can't believe the things he's doing.
OMG I am just so mad I could spit nails.
The best way to handle it would be to just not allow her to go there anymore overnight unless you are court mandated to. Allowing her to go there is just showing her that he does not care - children don't understand and take this personal. this will hurt her more in the long run. Kids soak everything up and think everything is there fault that they are not good enough. he does not deserve your beautiful daughter. no good father would ever leave their child home alone to go to bar and get drunk.

remember alcohlics don't care about who they hurt as long as they do what pleases them. They get what they want and that is all that matters. Protect your daughter and don't let her spend the night if you can help it. You can tell him this but from what you have posted about him, he may not even care and your girl deserves better then this.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:28 PM
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I completely agree with everyone about getting to a lawyer and letting them know what is going on. You can request supervised visits and/or no overnights. Document, document, document. Depending on the state and the judge you get, you may have to do more proving than you might think to claim alcohol abuse.

I'm curiously if your AH wanted your daughter to come over that particular night. Maybe if you made a regular schedule rather than an impromptu visit, he might be more inclined to be there? He is completely in the wrong for leaving her (and the brother is NOT an acceptable adult). Just thinking he had made plans but not wanting to say no to your daughter, he let her come over. Again, trying to think of ways to allow your daughter visitation with less risk.

I still think you need to talk to an attorney. They will let you know what the laws are in your state regarding visitation and the best way to handle this all. (((HUGS))) This is the part of divorce that I hate the most. It SUCKS to feel like the bad guy with your kids but ultimately, you are the parent and you have to do what you think is best for them until they can make those decisions on their own. Hang in there!
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:21 PM
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Agree that your AH leaving your 11 yr. old daughter and your son alone in his apt. IS against the law !
I should have thought of that in my first reponse !

Consult a lawyer about it first.....hope that no one calls CPS on you if they notice your daughter there, and your AH leaving for the bars....because Child Protective Services will look at YOU too.
You don't want them involved.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:37 PM
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If there is anyone I feel sorry for it's your daughter

I don't know if this idea has occured to you BUT from what I've read, and from your previous posts too, I would bet money on the fact that your daughter is probably naming off your bad traits/habits/acts to your ex as well, because she is trying to get someone to pay attention to her while you and your ex are fighting it out and/or making it up.

If you can't start building a support network of your own and making some permanent decisions based on facts, not possiblities (i.e he may actually stay home tonight and watch the kid) for your own sake, do it for your kids. They haven't asked to be in this situation and as an adult and their mother it is your job to act responsibly, saying you don't have to because he's not, or trying to put all the blame on him just doesn't cut it.

In Al Anon they say there is a difference between being a victim and being a volunteer. Victims generally are involved in a situation which is a one off random occurance.....
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:03 AM
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Can't make sense out of crazy.
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Originally Posted by lizw View Post
I don't know if this idea has occured to you BUT from what I've read, and from your previous posts too, I would bet money on the fact that your daughter is probably naming off your bad traits/habits/acts to your ex as well, because she is trying to get someone to pay attention to her while you and your ex are fighting it out and/or making it up.

If you can't start building a support network of your own and making some permanent decisions based on facts, not possiblities (i.e he may actually stay home tonight and watch the kid) for your own sake, do it for your kids. They haven't asked to be in this situation and as an adult and their mother it is your job to act responsibly, saying you don't have to because he's not, or trying to put all the blame on him just doesn't cut it.

In Al Anon they say there is a difference between being a victim and being a volunteer. Victims generally are involved in a situation which is a one off random occurance.....
While I appreciate your response, I'm not sure where you get the information to make the assumption that our daughter isn't getting appropriate attention from me.
Quite the opposite I can assure you. With me being currrently unemployed and it being summer vacation, our daughter is pretty much my constant companion, we spend almost all of our time together doing all kinds of different things. I don't know where the idea came from that she is being ignored or that her needs weren't being met.


This original post was to vent about him repeating an action that put our daughter in a bad situation. One that we had talked about and he agreed wouldn't happen again. I stupidly trusted him on that. It happened a second time and so now, she won't be spending overnights there any longer.
We talked & I've explained it to her and she understands mostly. She's also starting counseling.

Also, any fighting or confrontations with stbxah are done in email or in personn when the children are not present.

I'm not seeing where I am being so irresponsible here....
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:08 AM
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Can't make sense out of crazy.
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Originally Posted by i4getsm View Post
I'm curiously if your AH wanted your daughter to come over that particular night. Maybe if you made a regular schedule rather than an impromptu visit, he might be more inclined to be there? He is completely in the wrong for leaving her (and the brother is NOT an acceptable adult). Just thinking he had made plans but not wanting to say no to your daughter, he let her come over. Again, trying to think of ways to allow your daughter visitation with less risk.
We already have a regular schedule set up. Every other weekend and Tuesday and Thursday evenings as his work schedule allows.
It was his weekend, it wasn't an improptu visit at all.
I actually had that gut feeling that I ignored that it wasnt a good idea and I told my daughter that I thought she should stay home with me for the night instead.


Thanks for your thoughts though.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:33 AM
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This might be a good time for me to remind everyone that it's best to keep on topic and the best way to participate is for people to share their own personal experience, strength and hope.

Many topics can touch a sensitive area and cause a strong reaction due to someone's own painful past. As they say in Al Anon meetings, Take what you like and leave the rest.

Thanks

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Old 07-08-2008, 09:16 AM
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strongerwoman,

I don't have much to offer, but wanted you to know that I am reading your situation and learning from it. I've pictured myself in your shoes a million times and very well might end up in your shoes. I've wondered about how the custody of the kids gets handled in the interim. Consequently, I've been documenting my husband's drinking/outbursts/etc. for over 10 years. I met once with an attorney about 9 years ago who said she had never seen such thorough documentation. I don't plan to be ill-prepared when I go in front of a judge.

I have an 11 year old who I'll be telling about his father being an alcoholic very soon, like possibly today even. From everyone I've heard talk about it, it was always a liberating experience. I know my son has to know something.

At this very moment in your split from your spouse, you will continue to have to protect your daughter from her own father. And if she doesn't know the reason why, over and over you will look like the bad guy. He'll look like the good guy. Would you rather shatter her image of her father but be able to keep her safe, or run the risk of her starting to resent you for keeping her from the fun parent?

I have a similar situation coming up. My AH's family, mother in particular, is about as looney as they come. I'm not going there this Christmas. And since I'm not going, my children aren't going. That's just a rule I have. My kids don't go out of town with active alcoholics. So, if my kids don't know why, they'll think I'm being mean. If they know why, the blame can go squarely where it belongs.

Think about it. I know, know, know that you want to protect your daughter. But protecting her image of her perfect dad is going to cost you, and cost you more and more as time goes on.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:30 AM
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I cringe at words like "blame," "fun parent," "perfect dad," "bad guy," etc. It's not us vs. them. Or at least it doesn't have to be. When I separated from my husband, I explained to my children that their father was sick. That he wasn't "bad," he just had an illness that caused him to make poor decisions sometimes. And that until he took the initiative to get himself better, I would be protecting them and myself from the outcome of his poor decisions. I let them know that we both love them, we just can't stay together as husband and wife. That the problems between us are adult problems. Also, something emphasized over and over by our counselor, was to stress to them that NONE OF THIS was their fault. Seems obvious to us adults, but children internalize and blame themselves for everything. It must be stressed continually that they are not to blame, and there is nothing they can do or could have done that would change things. I cannot stress enough how important this is!

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Old 07-08-2008, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa View Post
I cringe at words like "blame," "fun parent," "perfect dad," "bad guy," etc. It's not us vs. them. Or at least it doesn't have to be. When I separated from my husband, I explained to my children that their father was sick. That he wasn't "bad," he just had an illness that caused him to make poor decisions sometimes. And that until he took the initiative to get himself better, I would be protecting them and myself from the outcome of his poor decisions. I let them know that we both love them, we just can't stay together as husband and wife. That the problems between us are adult problems. Also, something emphasized over and over by our counselor, was to stress to them that NONE OF THIS was their fault. Seems obvious to us adults, but children internalize and blame themselves for everything. It must be stressed continually that they are not to blame, and there is nothing they can do or could have done that would change things. I cannot stress enough how important this is!

L
If it's a game, at least where I'm concerned, it's one that my AH plays. Telling children the truth is what they deserve to hear. My AH is active right now. He somehow makes himself feel better by spending extra time playing with the kids, or being their pal, or otherwise doting on them. That is him playing mental games with himself. I'm not sure what they are exactly, but man, my kids think he's a really fun parent!!! He rarely tells them no, rarely disciplines them, and while I appreciate the fact that he does spend time with them, he's far more interested in drinking than actually teaching them anything (like how to ride a bike, or how to throw a ball, etc.)

I know when I explain to my kids what is going on, I won't bash their dad at all. But the fact that some dad intentionally make themself out to be "disney dads" is very real. My AH did it with my stepdaughters when they were growing up. I remember very well that he'd let them watch "R" rated movies when their mother wouldn't allow it. Boy did that gain their loyalty. I remember one walking in the house for summer vacation and yelling, "Party time!!!!". It's a very real scenario that some people enlist to gain the loyalty of the children.

It's not a war, but the kids need to hear the truth. And I firmly believe in counseling for the kids so that they can reach out to an outside person for clarity.

Think my stepdaughters are close to my AH? Not at all. They are very close with their mother. It backfired on my AH. I know he'd do it again. The first thing he does after we've had an argument is go hug the kids and hang out with them.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:45 AM
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Exactly my point. My AH tried playing the "fun dad' role, too. And I could have gotten angry about it and told my children what he was doing. Instead, I remained impartial and let them come to their own conclusions. Heck, he still tries it now and then. But, you know what? Kids are not stupid. A couple months ago my now 15yo daughter was asking me for something and I said "how come you always come to me when you want something, why not your dad?" And she said, "Cuz, mom, you are the one I can always count on, Dad's kinda flaky." (I was lol inside my head )

It's hard, and sometimes I find myself on the pity pot since I provide structure, rules, food, clothing, and shelter for my children all the time, and he only does every other weekend. And sometimes my house is not all that fun, with chores to do, etc. Weekends at dad's are generally "play time." But, I know that having a loving, stable, home is more important that having a fun weekend.

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