Setting Rules

Old 07-01-2008, 08:56 AM
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Setting Rules

I'm about halfway through Codependent No More and really getting a lot out of it. I have a question for everyone: How appropriate is it to set rules in your house knowing perfectly well the rules will be broken and also knowing you're not ready to enforce the consequences yet?

I had someone tell me that I should forbid alcohol in the house, but it's not only my house. And my A doesn't want that rule yet. So, if I set that rule and it gets broken, which I know it will, isn't that just me trying to control everything again? Comments please. Thank you.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:04 AM
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Rules, actually boundaries, without consequences are pointless IMO. All it tells the A in your life is that you don't mean what you say. Until you are ready to set and enforce consequences for behaviors you find unacceptable, don't bother setting boundaries.

Boundaries are also not to control someone else's behavior. They are to specify what you find acceptable and what you will do if unaccpetbale behavior takes place. Your boundaries are for you, not your A.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:15 AM
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Yes I agree, setting a boundary is not about control. It is not about what your A wants or needs. It is about you!

Boundaries are there in order to protect ourselves from the pain that comes from our lines getting crossed, they also help redefine what are 'lines' are. They are internal. They determine, what behaviour you find acceptable, what is not acceptable and what you will do if your boundaries are crossed.

So you don't want your A to drink in the house? I gather you want this becaue of how it makes you feel, the anxiety and insecurity that comes with it? So go ahead and have that boundary! It is helping to protect you from those horrid feelings that you know are unhealthy for you and that you do not wish to feel! If your A wishes to drink, he may go elsewhere! If he decides to cross your boundary you will need some consequences, only you can decide these. Some people here remove themselves from the house, go stay at a friends, etc etc.

The thing with this boundary (and what happened to me) is that the A may simply, not care, about your boundaries and break them all the time. For me, their was an ultimate boundary - keep crossing my boundary and I will end the relationship.

He still needs to respect you and your wishes despite his problems! That isn't control it is politeness!

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Old 07-01-2008, 09:15 AM
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Thank you for the response. In these early stages of my recovery, I am being careful of setting boundaries as I have a history of never living up to the consequences of boundaries I've set in the past. I want to be absolutely certain that I am ready to apply consequences before I declare a boundary.

I am less than two months into a new job that is extremely stressful and is stretching me to my absolute limits. My A spent the last month being worse than she'd been in a long time. It seemed like she was trying to sabotage my success at my new job, but I think that's erroneous thinking. She was just bent on self-destruction as usual. It really had nothing to do with me.

I need some time to concentrate on myself and ensure my success at this job. I want to detach myself from my A as much as possible and do everything necessary to protect myself and my job, even if it means going to a hotel during the week to get the sleep I need. This job is extremely important to me, and also important to my future, especially if I am on my own.

If I start setting rules like "no alcohol in the house" and then I spend all my time concentrating on myself and making sure I'm eating right, getting enough sleep, and spending time at work rather than at home babysitting my A, then I'm just bound to repeat the same mistakes I've made in the past when I set rules that I didn't enforce.

Sorry for the rambling, I'm just trying to think this through all the way and not repeat my past mistakes.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by starflier View Post
How appropriate is it to set rules in your house knowing perfectly well the rules will be broken and also knowing you're not ready to enforce the consequences yet?

I had someone tell me that I should forbid alcohol in the house, but it's not only my house. And my A doesn't want that rule yet. So, if I set that rule and it gets broken, which I know it will, isn't that just me trying to control everything again? Comments please. Thank you.
Hi Starflier,

You are doing very well in bringing the light to your patterns, and being reasonable and level headed at the same time that you are disturbed. Not easy. at all.

Now, about those boundaries...

Understand, your AP will likely never approve of or give you permission to have them, especially the alcohol free home.

A boundary is for your health and serenity and is not dependent upon anyone else's agreement.

Another thing about boundaries.....

A rigid boundary is just as unhealthy as a non-boundary.

While you certainly can, and should, ask for an alcohol-free home, the world is pretty alcoholic and we cannot control that. As others have shared, ask into your own heart and mind, what is the goal of your wanting this change and boundary?

Is it because of the anxiety, the chaos, the loneliness you feel as a result of her drunkenness? What about her behaviour towards you when she is not drinking per se, but is between drinking times? Is that alcoholic behavior (which feeds those feelings you suffer from) guaranteed to disappear when (IF) the alcohol is removed? Probably not, and if so, probably not forever, or if so, it will be a long journey til they disappear.

What this points to, as you suggested, is removing yourself to a sanctuary type of space for your own peace and health, rather than exerting the efforts to govern (police) the behaviors of your AP.

You said that you know she will never agree to nor abide by your requests and requirements for change, things that are esssential to your own sanity.

If that is the reality, then it may be a wise time to detach yourself and nourish your own strength, clarity, happiness and see where that leads the 2 of you.

good luck, you are worth the best!
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:10 AM
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It might help to clarify your thinking by borrowing a technique used in communication classes. Try making a list of items in the following format: When my A does/says X__, it makes me feel Y__, and I want to do Z__ in response. For example, is it really the fact that alcohol is in the house that bothers you? Or is it more specific: "When my A is intoxicated, I feel Y__." Or even more specific: "When my A is drunk and yells at me, it disrupts me by Y__." Once you have a list, you can review it and decide what you would feel comfortable doing in response to the A's behaviors. For example: "When A is drunk and disruptive, I will ask for it to stop and for us to calmly discuss it later when sober. If the A refuses, I will stay the night elsewhere so I can rest for tomorrow's stressful work day." Think it through carefully, and pick behaviors for yourself that you feel will help you, and that you feel confident you can do in that situation. Remember, it is always OK to feel safe and change your situation if you don't, and you deserve to care for yourself first. You can't effectively help another if you are not well to begin with. Keep posting and let us know how we can help.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:16 AM
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Excellent posts on boundaries Sailorkaren here and on Barbara's thread! I'm learning alot from you!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:39 PM
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SailorKaren and Miss Communicat, you guys are so helpful. Thank you!

You are so right. I need to really think this through and not just react from my gut. It is exactly not the alcohol itself and whether it's in my house. What a terribly difficult thing to control. It's the way it makes me feel when my AP is drinking that bothers me so much. Knowing I can't have a rational conversation, knowing I can't expect anything reasonable, and worrying about whether the house will be quiet and calm enough to sleep when it's time.

I need to talk to her about what I need at the close of a long day to be ready for the next stressful day, and what happens if her drinking is disturbing my right to have a peaceful evening. If necessary, she can cover the cost of a hotel for me! Thanks again for all the smart words!
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:02 PM
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By the way Starflier, slightly off topic, but I have found that my AP is often much much worse in his habits when I am particularly under stress - either at work or with the kids or something similar. I feel that it must somehow be connected, I don't know if it is attention seeking perhaps; it is at stressful times when it is particularly hard to stay cool and detached and not get het up - and that means he gets a reaction out of me.

I try to stay detached - but sometimes it's a bit of an internal battle! (doesn't do my digestion any good, so I obviously have more serenity to learn). xx
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:21 PM
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Inahurry, I think you're entirely correct! In so many ways, we're dealing with such childlike behavior on the side of the addicts in our lives, that for me, I find it way too easy to get down on the same level. I think what I'm trying to do more than anything else is to affirm that I have a right to a mature partner. I know what I really want is to have an adult partner, not a child. This attention-seeking behavior needs to be called out for exactly what it is.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:54 PM
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I agree whole-heartedly with that.

As an ex-A myself, I found that an A is very self-centered, so if you're stressed the A thinks it is all about herself.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RayRayRay View Post
I agree whole-heartedly with that.

As an ex-A myself, I found that an A is very self-centered, so if you're stressed the A thinks it is all about herself.

sorry to sound dumb, but what is an ex-A?
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:53 PM
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ex alcoholic / addict



(or am I still an A? once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic?)
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:12 PM
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Well, first off, I kinda guess the term "rules" raises some questions for me. If the other person/people involved are adults and if you are not in some knd of paid and/or contractual supervisory position over them, then, really, you just do not have the right to make rules for other adults..and it is disrespectful of their human dignity and of their right to make their own choices -- however unhealthy and self-destructive those might be -- for you to try to do so. (I'm just bringing this up because I think the language we choose to use can tell a lot about where we are emotionally, and when you use the word "rules" in connection with your A -- who I'm assuming is your SO also -- it tends to cast your relationship in a parent/child light and, if you're feeling that kind of "parental" responsibility for your A, then that right there is a situation that is pretty unfair for both of you.)

Now, other posters have assumed that when you said "rules," you meant boundaries. Boundaires are another matter altogether. As others have said boundaries are about you and about what you are willing to put up with and what you're not going to put up with. You have the right to set them and the right -- and responsibility to yourself and to others -- to enforce them. If you set a boundary and do not enforce it, then you are, not only allowing yourself to be disrespected, but setting a situation up so that you can be and you are enabling disrespectful behavior in others. That is behavior that only makes everything worse for everyone involved.

So, here's the part that always used to get me stuck when it came to setting boundaries with my partner: I knew that I wanted to set the boundary and I knew that I could and would enforce it...but I also knew that, if I did so, it might lead to consequences that I really did not want, i.e. to her getting really angry and behaving even more poorly and maybe even leaving.....So, I use to spend lots and lots and lots and lots of time and energy thinking about exactly how I could do it/say it in such a way as to get the outcome I wanted (that outcome being her willing compliance so that we could live "happily ever after).

And, of course, the reason that took up so much time and energy was because, in reality, the outcome was not mine to control or to predict or to worry about or to plan around......What was mine to control was just doing what I needed to do based on how it was best for me to take care of myself at that time. In other words, just to say what I needed to say as simply, as directly, and as non-hurtfully as possible (This is not to say that the A might not choose be hurt, because, in my experience, an active A can find a way to get hurt by anything if it gives him/her an excuse to drink -- but you're not responsible for that either!)....and then to deal with her response -- whatever that was -- in the same here-and-now self-respectful and self-care based way when it happened....

.....and, yeah, at one point that ended up taking me somewhere (throwing her out) that I might never have gone if I had been stuck in fear and in controlling it all and plannig it all out in advance....but HP had other plans and, it just so turned out, that HP's plans were much better than mine ever could have been even if they had "worked out" perfectly...

So, no rules, only boundaries and enforcing boudaries one day at a time to take care of yourself, not to control anyone else or the future...Really, it's the only sane way.

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Old 07-15-2008, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by freya View Post
And, of course, the reason that took up so much time and energy was because, in reality, the outcome was not mine to control or to predict or to worry about or to plan around......freya
Your words have been going around in my head ever since I read them earlier today, and I wanted to thank you for writing them. You're so right.

I told my therapist today that my world always feels like a big circle, with me in the middle, and my job is to grab all the flying objects and keep them in the circle. All the bills to pay, the drama to handle, the financial worries, just everything. As I heard myself saying that, your words came into my head and I realized that I was on one big, huge power trip! I'd never thought of it that way before so it was truly an Ah-ha! moment for me.

It's time I started making my circle much, much smaller, and begin handing off the responsibilities that were never mine to start with. Thank you.
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