wading thru the mud
Learning to love life...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
wading thru the mud
Hi guys,
Sometimes I think I got it under control... but recovery isn't all that EASY for me, OR him.
It seems that my husband and I are BOTH codependant in ways - we are imeshed in each other and have been for years. Now, it USED to be that being so "close" was awesome. We'd kiss like teenagers, hold hands, discuss all of the days events, go to bed at the same time etc.
Right now, I'd kill for a couple weeks away.
It's just that we rub off on each other... If he's grumpy, I'm grumpy, if he's stressed, I get stressed and so on. But don't get me wrong... I AM working my program, I AM practicing detachment... It just seems like we can't find a peace between the two of us. There is animosity, there is hurt, there is jealousy, there is fear... and HE is sober, and I am recovering!!
I just don't get it... or at least I don't know what (if anything) I need to do next.
I would LIKE to be friends again... I am praying that is possible. I just don't know how to handle his sobriety as well as I can "handle" the active using. I would LIKE to support him, but can never find the words - it usually goes unsaid - he has no idea how proud I am of him.
Anyhow... gotta stop rambling
Talk to ya soon
Meg
Sometimes I think I got it under control... but recovery isn't all that EASY for me, OR him.
It seems that my husband and I are BOTH codependant in ways - we are imeshed in each other and have been for years. Now, it USED to be that being so "close" was awesome. We'd kiss like teenagers, hold hands, discuss all of the days events, go to bed at the same time etc.
Right now, I'd kill for a couple weeks away.
It's just that we rub off on each other... If he's grumpy, I'm grumpy, if he's stressed, I get stressed and so on. But don't get me wrong... I AM working my program, I AM practicing detachment... It just seems like we can't find a peace between the two of us. There is animosity, there is hurt, there is jealousy, there is fear... and HE is sober, and I am recovering!!
I just don't get it... or at least I don't know what (if anything) I need to do next.
I would LIKE to be friends again... I am praying that is possible. I just don't know how to handle his sobriety as well as I can "handle" the active using. I would LIKE to support him, but can never find the words - it usually goes unsaid - he has no idea how proud I am of him.
Anyhow... gotta stop rambling
Talk to ya soon
Meg
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
Hi Meg.
I know there are a lot of things about brand new Dino that I am having to get used to. They're not even things I don't like. It's just sort of like having to get to know another person. So there we are in an intimate friendship with a stranger. How's that for a paradox?
What is it about his sobriety that is hard for you to handle? Is he cranky? Or are you like me and feeling kind of at sea because you don't know what's coming next? Do you feel insecure because you don't think he needs you as much? Can you even pinpoint what it is that's making you feel dissatisfied?
Now I think what I'm going to say next is going to sound kind of manipulative. It's about the telling him you're proud thing. I don't think I've ever made a global statement like that to Dino either, but I have had the opportunity to give him plenty of compliments or approval about specific things. Something as small as saying "That was good thinking." has him rolling around like a pleased puppy. I guess it's just wonderful to hear after half a decade of nothing but "why can't you...?" Not only is it cute to watch, but then he brings me pillows and puts on movies that I like and such. I know it was scarey to let that first statement of pure approval out. I'm not sure why. Maybe I got used to being the good one. The competent one. Maybe I felt like he was usurping my position by being good and competent, too. (Gee, I didn't mean to use your thread as an avenue for self discovery... but it seems to be working that way... LOL!) Right now I'm thinking that maybe I felt like I was giving up some kind of power by conceding that he was okay. But it didn't take a thing from me. It got me candy bars.
Hugs,
Smoke
I know there are a lot of things about brand new Dino that I am having to get used to. They're not even things I don't like. It's just sort of like having to get to know another person. So there we are in an intimate friendship with a stranger. How's that for a paradox?
What is it about his sobriety that is hard for you to handle? Is he cranky? Or are you like me and feeling kind of at sea because you don't know what's coming next? Do you feel insecure because you don't think he needs you as much? Can you even pinpoint what it is that's making you feel dissatisfied?
Now I think what I'm going to say next is going to sound kind of manipulative. It's about the telling him you're proud thing. I don't think I've ever made a global statement like that to Dino either, but I have had the opportunity to give him plenty of compliments or approval about specific things. Something as small as saying "That was good thinking." has him rolling around like a pleased puppy. I guess it's just wonderful to hear after half a decade of nothing but "why can't you...?" Not only is it cute to watch, but then he brings me pillows and puts on movies that I like and such. I know it was scarey to let that first statement of pure approval out. I'm not sure why. Maybe I got used to being the good one. The competent one. Maybe I felt like he was usurping my position by being good and competent, too. (Gee, I didn't mean to use your thread as an avenue for self discovery... but it seems to be working that way... LOL!) Right now I'm thinking that maybe I felt like I was giving up some kind of power by conceding that he was okay. But it didn't take a thing from me. It got me candy bars.
Hugs,
Smoke
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
Meg,
Don't mean to bypass your post, but did you read what I read??? Smokes said "IT GOT ME CANDY BARS!"
I'll be right back. Going to read Smoke's post again and make some changes. If candy bars are the payoff, well I'll be a different woman tomorrow!!!....lol.
Now seriously, Meg, how long has your husband been sober?
Don't mean to bypass your post, but did you read what I read??? Smokes said "IT GOT ME CANDY BARS!"
I'll be right back. Going to read Smoke's post again and make some changes. If candy bars are the payoff, well I'll be a different woman tomorrow!!!....lol.
Now seriously, Meg, how long has your husband been sober?
Learning to love life...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi Smoke and Hangin 
Smoke:
"What is it about his sobriety that is hard for you to handle? Is he cranky? Or are you like me and feeling kind of at sea because you don't know what's coming next? Do you feel insecure because you don't think he needs you as much? Can you even pinpoint what it is that's making you feel dissatisfied?"
Yes, he's cranky sometimes... when he gets down, he's REALLY down - but I'm like that as well. I think I AM like you... I have no idea WHAT to expect from him, from our relationship. The "what-ifs" are comin out my as* right now! I even made the mistake of TRYING to communicate this to him today... I said "I feel uneasy... I am not sure what to do if you relapse". BAD BAD BAD. He said "Well thanks a lot... you already EXPECT me to fail". NOT what I meant at all . I tried to explain it better, but I am horrible at saying what I mean. The thing is, I KNOW how to be the wife of an Alcoholic... I DON'T know how to be the wife of a RECOVERING Alcoholic. At least when he's drinking / using, I can predict how things will play out.
And the biggest thing... I think that I really believed that once he was sober, I would be happy; and I'm not. I am more scared NOW. Make ANY sense?
I have listened to my husband when he is asking (in his own pathetic MALE way lol) for some approval. He likes to feel wanted and loved. The other night, at our softball game, I went up to him in the dugout and gave him a peck on the neck... he talked about that one for days. He says he like the little things that make him feel attractive, important. He, like me, suffers from very low self esteem . I have tried (in MY pathetic way lol) to TELL him how I feel... how proud I am of him. But it often comes out wrong - with negetive undertones, or just words falling all over each other. I have a hard time I think... maybe because I don't TRUST him still? I still think he'll end up hurting me? I dunno... I don't WANT to be like that... I love him very much.
Anyhoo...
Hanging:
"Now seriously, Meg, how long has your husband been sober?"
He's been sober for almost 90 days. It was at this time last attempt that he relapsed for 5 months straight
Hmmmm... Maybe this is all a case of TIMING!!?
Thanks
Meg
Smoke:
"What is it about his sobriety that is hard for you to handle? Is he cranky? Or are you like me and feeling kind of at sea because you don't know what's coming next? Do you feel insecure because you don't think he needs you as much? Can you even pinpoint what it is that's making you feel dissatisfied?"
Yes, he's cranky sometimes... when he gets down, he's REALLY down - but I'm like that as well. I think I AM like you... I have no idea WHAT to expect from him, from our relationship. The "what-ifs" are comin out my as* right now! I even made the mistake of TRYING to communicate this to him today... I said "I feel uneasy... I am not sure what to do if you relapse". BAD BAD BAD. He said "Well thanks a lot... you already EXPECT me to fail". NOT what I meant at all
. I tried to explain it better, but I am horrible at saying what I mean. The thing is, I KNOW how to be the wife of an Alcoholic... I DON'T know how to be the wife of a RECOVERING Alcoholic. At least when he's drinking / using, I can predict how things will play out.And the biggest thing... I think that I really believed that once he was sober, I would be happy; and I'm not. I am more scared NOW. Make ANY sense?
I have listened to my husband when he is asking (in his own pathetic MALE way lol) for some approval. He likes to feel wanted and loved. The other night, at our softball game, I went up to him in the dugout and gave him a peck on the neck... he talked about that one for days. He says he like the little things that make him feel attractive, important. He, like me, suffers from very low self esteem
. I have tried (in MY pathetic way lol) to TELL him how I feel... how proud I am of him. But it often comes out wrong - with negetive undertones, or just words falling all over each other. I have a hard time I think... maybe because I don't TRUST him still? I still think he'll end up hurting me? I dunno... I don't WANT to be like that... I love him very much.Anyhoo...
Hanging:
"Now seriously, Meg, how long has your husband been sober?"
He's been sober for almost 90 days. It was at this time last attempt that he relapsed for 5 months straight
Hmmmm... Maybe this is all a case of TIMING!!?Thanks
Meg
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: That's what I'd like to know.
Posts: 2,416
okay... you can beat me with a wet noodle if I'm off base here.
Are you afraid that if he doesn't need you to keep his life in order, that you will have no place in his life? I had a struggle with that. And I know that it plays out that way in some relationships. But gosh girl! If he gets all schoolboy over a peck on the neck... he wants you. And being wanted is perhaps not as secure as being needed, but it sure is a bigger honor. Are you scared that the better he gets, the more you will not be good enough? I KNOW how that feels. But open your eyes. He is telling you when he asks for your approval that he cares what you think of him. And that means that he holds you in esteem. You're not just good enough. You're great. The best there is. The one whose eyes he wants to shine in.
A friend of mine once told me to write down 10 things I liked about myself. I couldn't do it. And it's hard to believe that someone else can see you as wonderful when all you can see is what's wrong with you. Can you make that list of 10 things? I can now. If I started listing I would never have to stop except for lunch and potty. So try it. You can take breaks. You can add to it for the rest of your life as you think of things. If you have trouble starting... make a list of things you think OTHER people like about you. Then decide if it's true.
example:
People think I (Meg) am kind and gentle. (Am I kind and gentle?) YES!
People think I (Meg) am honest. (Am I honest? Well, except when it interferes with being kind and gentle.) YES!
When you've got a good start on your list, you'll see that it all adds up to someone that someone else would WANT around. Now ask yourself if your husband has the sense God gave grapes. Yes? Then he sees it too.
Hugs,
Smoke
Are you afraid that if he doesn't need you to keep his life in order, that you will have no place in his life? I had a struggle with that. And I know that it plays out that way in some relationships. But gosh girl! If he gets all schoolboy over a peck on the neck... he wants you. And being wanted is perhaps not as secure as being needed, but it sure is a bigger honor. Are you scared that the better he gets, the more you will not be good enough? I KNOW how that feels. But open your eyes. He is telling you when he asks for your approval that he cares what you think of him. And that means that he holds you in esteem. You're not just good enough. You're great. The best there is. The one whose eyes he wants to shine in.
A friend of mine once told me to write down 10 things I liked about myself. I couldn't do it. And it's hard to believe that someone else can see you as wonderful when all you can see is what's wrong with you. Can you make that list of 10 things? I can now. If I started listing I would never have to stop except for lunch and potty. So try it. You can take breaks. You can add to it for the rest of your life as you think of things. If you have trouble starting... make a list of things you think OTHER people like about you. Then decide if it's true.
example:
People think I (Meg) am kind and gentle. (Am I kind and gentle?) YES!
People think I (Meg) am honest. (Am I honest? Well, except when it interferes with being kind and gentle.) YES!
When you've got a good start on your list, you'll see that it all adds up to someone that someone else would WANT around. Now ask yourself if your husband has the sense God gave grapes. Yes? Then he sees it too.
Hugs,
Smoke
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: georgia
Posts: 531
Meg,
Sorry to hear that things aren't like you thought.....but I think that is where a lot of us have our problem. We have things all figured out and pictured in our head and when things don't work out that way...we view them as not right or not good or as failure. Try hard not imagine what things should be like because reality is never going to live up to fantasy. (no I don't mean that you are living in a fantasy world) Just don't have pre-deteremined expectations of your day.....and only go one day at a time.
Sounds like you might be a little like me in the sense that I have difficulty showing my affection. However, I have found that if I do go out of my comfort zone in showing it, my husband is VERY appreciative! Sounds like yours would be too if he was so excited over the kiss.....mine would have been too!! The fear of relapse affects my ability to show affection...but I have been fighting that off and living hour to hour.....it really seems to work.
I am cheering for y'all!
Constant
Sorry to hear that things aren't like you thought.....but I think that is where a lot of us have our problem. We have things all figured out and pictured in our head and when things don't work out that way...we view them as not right or not good or as failure. Try hard not imagine what things should be like because reality is never going to live up to fantasy. (no I don't mean that you are living in a fantasy world) Just don't have pre-deteremined expectations of your day.....and only go one day at a time.
Sounds like you might be a little like me in the sense that I have difficulty showing my affection. However, I have found that if I do go out of my comfort zone in showing it, my husband is VERY appreciative! Sounds like yours would be too if he was so excited over the kiss.....mine would have been too!! The fear of relapse affects my ability to show affection...but I have been fighting that off and living hour to hour.....it really seems to work.
I am cheering for y'all!
Constant
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 211
Meg,
Confusion really s*cks doesn't it?!
I have told my husband (now sober for ~110 days) that I am sooo happy for him and I'm happy for myself and our kids too!
I have also asked him how he felt he was doing and he was able to tell me that he is doing well. He is happy with how his life has turned around.
I think he now enjoys time spent with his family much more than before. The kids really enjoy the time the spend with Daddy too. They never used to ask where he was when he was out drinking (I think they kinda liked when it was just 'the girls'). But, now, they miss him when he is at meetings.
Sorry to get off track there but I think showing him that you are happy/proud...... in any way you can is helpful for him and you.
Why not give it a try.
Also - try to avoid worry about the 'what ifs' and don't try to predict the future. Try to enjoy each other now. Remember the things you love about him and take off from there.
Hugs
NoDoubt
Confusion really s*cks doesn't it?!
I have told my husband (now sober for ~110 days) that I am sooo happy for him and I'm happy for myself and our kids too!
I have also asked him how he felt he was doing and he was able to tell me that he is doing well. He is happy with how his life has turned around.
I think he now enjoys time spent with his family much more than before. The kids really enjoy the time the spend with Daddy too. They never used to ask where he was when he was out drinking (I think they kinda liked when it was just 'the girls'). But, now, they miss him when he is at meetings.
Sorry to get off track there but I think showing him that you are happy/proud...... in any way you can is helpful for him and you.
Why not give it a try.
Also - try to avoid worry about the 'what ifs' and don't try to predict the future. Try to enjoy each other now. Remember the things you love about him and take off from there.
Hugs
NoDoubt
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 444
(((((((Meg))))))))
Gee--I get dejavu everytime I read your posts!
Since Squinty quit on the 11th, I've been going thru everything you have been--right after you post it! I, too, am struggling with all the same things, thoughts, feelings. Sure glad you are getting all the answers for me before I get to them! Seems they have a lot of books on how to deal with them drunk, but now, it's like we need a whole different set of instructions on how to deal with them sober!
Hugs,
Lyn
Since Squinty quit on the 11th, I've been going thru everything you have been--right after you post it! I, too, am struggling with all the same things, thoughts, feelings. Sure glad you are getting all the answers for me before I get to them! Seems they have a lot of books on how to deal with them drunk, but now, it's like we need a whole different set of instructions on how to deal with them sober!
Hugs,
Lyn
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 407
Meg -
I would be willing to bet that alot of your confusion and fears stem from the 90 days and his last relapse at that point. You are afraid that it is going to happen again and that is the magic number.
Each day that goes by you will find that you'll breathe easier and life will become easier. It is hard to trust his sobriety now. Maybe if you could look for one positive thing everyday as a result of his sobriety it would help ease your mind. Even his crankiness could be a positive - it could be the result of his self realization of problems he has created or even the fear that you won't love the "new" him.
Try and enjoy the good parts and give both of you time to sort through your new situation.
Jo
PS: If a kiss on the neck got such a good response, just imagine........
I would be willing to bet that alot of your confusion and fears stem from the 90 days and his last relapse at that point. You are afraid that it is going to happen again and that is the magic number.
Each day that goes by you will find that you'll breathe easier and life will become easier. It is hard to trust his sobriety now. Maybe if you could look for one positive thing everyday as a result of his sobriety it would help ease your mind. Even his crankiness could be a positive - it could be the result of his self realization of problems he has created or even the fear that you won't love the "new" him.
Try and enjoy the good parts and give both of you time to sort through your new situation.
Jo
PS: If a kiss on the neck got such a good response, just imagine........
Learning to love life...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 529
Hi guys,
Sorry I didn't respond right away - I was away with the kids since Wednesday
Smoke:
I HAVE felt that way about him / the relationship. I mean it was scary when he was all of a sudden being all responsible and trustworthy! In a way I felt worried that since we met when BOTH of us were "sick" (him an A, me a Codie), that now he would find that he doesn't want / need me anymore.
BUT... It is also ME worrying that I don't need HIM. I feel 10 times stronger, self-assured than I was 10 years ago... sometimes I get so frustrated that I STILL have to deal with his crap. Its like being on a teeder-todder... Some days I am so grateful and can see and be thankful for the love and friendship we have, even thru all the insanity / recovery; and some days I want to get OUT.
That about sums it up .
And I really like that idea of thinking about what OTHER people think of you... I quite often do that when I am feeling guilty about something I said, or when I think I have reacted badly etc. I remind myself that MY opinion of myself is usually far from what is true.
Thanks!
Constant:
YES! it sounds like you ARE a lot like me... my unwillingness to TRUST my husband and his recovery, makes it very hard to be open and loving with him... and of course, HE in return, feels rejected etc.
I KNOW it can't always be like this... I am trying to convince myself that this is all a part of getting used to things around here; such big changes. I also need to allow myself to FEEL these feelings without trying to SOLVE the issues surrounding them - thats a toughy.
No Doubt:
Thanks! I WILL give it a try... It is encouraging to know that you have received positive feelings from this. I keep reminding myself that all he can do is TRY;and he IS trying! I have to be grateful for that. Most times when I WANT to cuddle and "connect", the little "devil" on my shoulder pipes up - telling me NO! You'll get HURT! So silly really
Lyn:
Hey... thats what I'm here for baby... Anytime you wanna compare notes, let me know LOL. It is so reassuring to know I am not alone!
jojo:
Thank you for your encouragement - sometimes just hearing OTHER people tell me what I need to do makes me actually BELIEVE it is true. I am my own worst critic... even when I have the RIGHT advice for myself, I second guess it.
Thank you!
Meg
Sorry I didn't respond right away - I was away with the kids since Wednesday
Smoke:
I HAVE felt that way about him / the relationship. I mean it was scary when he was all of a sudden being all responsible and trustworthy! In a way I felt worried that since we met when BOTH of us were "sick" (him an A, me a Codie), that now he would find that he doesn't want / need me anymore.
BUT... It is also ME worrying that I don't need HIM. I feel 10 times stronger, self-assured than I was 10 years ago... sometimes I get so frustrated that I STILL have to deal with his crap. Its like being on a teeder-todder... Some days I am so grateful and can see and be thankful for the love and friendship we have, even thru all the insanity / recovery; and some days I want to get OUT.
That about sums it up
.And I really like that idea of thinking about what OTHER people think of you... I quite often do that when I am feeling guilty about something I said, or when I think I have reacted badly etc. I remind myself that MY opinion of myself is usually far from what is true.
Thanks!
Constant:
YES! it sounds like you ARE a lot like me... my unwillingness to TRUST my husband and his recovery, makes it very hard to be open and loving with him... and of course, HE in return, feels rejected etc.
I KNOW it can't always be like this... I am trying to convince myself that this is all a part of getting used to things around here; such big changes. I also need to allow myself to FEEL these feelings without trying to SOLVE the issues surrounding them - thats a toughy.
No Doubt:
Thanks! I WILL give it a try... It is encouraging to know that you have received positive feelings from this. I keep reminding myself that all he can do is TRY;and he IS trying! I have to be grateful for that. Most times when I WANT to cuddle and "connect", the little "devil" on my shoulder pipes up - telling me NO! You'll get HURT! So silly really
Lyn:
Hey... thats what I'm here for baby... Anytime you wanna compare notes, let me know
LOL. It is so reassuring to know I am not alone!jojo:
Thank you for your encouragement - sometimes just hearing OTHER people tell me what I need to do makes me actually BELIEVE it is true. I am my own worst critic... even when I have the RIGHT advice for myself, I second guess it.
Thank you!
Meg
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