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Why meetings work for this Atheist

Old 06-14-2008, 04:12 PM
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Why meetings work for this Atheist

After my last relapse I threw myself back into going to meetings. Even though AA is a deeply religious and spiritual program I have found it to be life-saving for me.

No, I do not have a higher power that is a "thinking" type entity. It does not love me, or hate me. It does not direct my life.

What I have done is become very opened minded to all messages from anyone and any resource. Be it AA, any religion, and any doctor, self-help, study, etc. I take it all in, and use what I need.

The beauty of AA is that it is a group of fellow humans who have gone through the same suffering as me. And we have learned to accept what we are. There is strength, guidance, and the 12-steps are powerful psychological tools to help me recover in my alcoholism.

I no longer worry about tomorrow. (This is the same of turning my life over to a God.) Meaning I can not change the future. I can only accept it. I have an OCD personality, and I realized that if I start thinking the same thing over and over again..I am not helping myself. I have to let it go.

I can not change the past. It is over, and I can only forgive those who harmed me, and who I have harmed. AA helps of find peace in the moment. Forgiveness and peace are powerful tools of recovery. Letting go of blame is the best thing we can do for ourselves, and taking responsibility for the choices we make, starting RIGHT NOW, and moving forward. Letting go of frustration, and anger...can only bring us peace of mind.

Finally when I drink and drug...I begin to isolate myself, and feeling sorry for myself. Attending meetings, going for walks, talking on the phone with family and friends help me be social. And being social is far more fun than being sad and alone. Humor, warmth, and compassion keep me coming back.

I'll never be a hard-core AAer, but I certainly love the groups because the people offer me hope, love, and inspiration. We are all connected through this strange bond.

My higher power is our universe. It is alive. It is something that is bigger than me. I can't explain it. And I can't predict the future. And again, it does not love me, or hate me. But I am a part of it, and it is a part of me. I can't feel lonely when I know I am a part of something big and huge...beyond description. But as the trees, bees, and planets are alive...

No one should ever be afraid to walk into a group meeting. I have never had anyone come up to me on the street, and embarrass me. And we do run into each other here and there. Instead it is a delicious little secret that we share. A special bond.

Every single one of us had to take that first brave step to walk in the first time, or walk in after a relapse. And instead of fear and shame...you will feel welcomed and wanted.

It truly is amazing to feel accepted and understood after the hell we have put ourselves through. And realize we really are not alone in our struggle.

Don't let your fears allow you to continue in the pain and misery. There are so many resources, and information out there.

88
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:17 PM
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Hey,

I'm glad to hear you can have a positive experience with AA without being religious. Thanks for posting this.

Hud.
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Old 06-14-2008, 04:35 PM
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Thanks Hud.

It has taken me a long time to get to this place. To find a HP that works for me. (I also can't stand the doorknob analogy...that's just stupid).

To be able to not cringe when I hear, "God, He, He guides me" type talk.

but I just didn't give up. And when I relapsed...I knew I needed to be back in the rooms.

My first sponsor immediately tried to get me to accept her god. And she was really needy. Not what I needed. Now my current sponsor is on the same level as me, and is guiding me through the steps. I am working the 4th step now, and it's not so bad. And I can see how it really helps our minds. It is a psychological and therapeutic process. Perfect for us addicts.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:07 PM
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Thanks for this post. That's actually been one of the things about NA (same foundation, different focus) that I really love, that people turn to a higher power of their choosing, whether it's a traditional old guy in a white beard and Birkenstocks, or a Group Of Druggies.

Glad you found a way to make it work for you.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:09 PM
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I'm glad your recovery is working for you.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:15 PM
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After my last relapse I threw myself back into going to meetings. Even though AA is a deeply religious and spiritual program I have found it to be life-saving for me.
I have been in NA for over three years and nobody told me its religous!

Glad your doing well.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nogard View Post
I have been in NA for over three years and nobody told me its religious!

Glad your doing well.

LOL! Opps, don't mean to shock ya with this new information!

And thank you. I'm glad I have found an honest way that works for me.

If we could just take out the words and phrases like, "God", "He", "May you find HIM now"...I would be just too happy to contain myself!

But to save my own ass...I put up with it.

Even saying, "Spiritual program" implies spirits. (Ghost-soul). This is something I also don't believe in.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:55 PM
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I too like hanging around with a bunch of people who understood me the minute I walked into the room. I learn from their experiences and feelings. I'm learning to be more tolerant also. The people in the meetings look like any one of us, from all walks of life. And if so many very different people can come together to help each other, that is a great force for good.

May the Force be with you!:ghug3
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:20 PM
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Great Post LogCabin!!

I've never heard an atheist describe God so well! Page 53 of the BB talks about God being everything (our universe) or nothing and asks "what was our choice to be?"

Peace..
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Old 06-14-2008, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 353 View Post
Great Post LogCabin!!

I've never heard an atheist describe God so well! Page 53 of the BB talks about God being everything (our universe) or nothing and asks "what was our choice to be?"

Peace..
I hear the crickets chirping.
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Old 06-14-2008, 09:52 PM
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Thanks so much logcabin....your post really touched me. We are an awful lot alike. My higher power doesn't have human attributes. Like you described...it doesn't love or hate me. Like you, AA has aided me in my sobriety. SR has also served a great purpose for me.

Thanks again so much.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Daddio View Post
I hear the crickets chirping.

LOL! And in a way...353 is right. For I do feel that My HP is also everyone else's... (The old, "we're all looking into the same house from the outside from different windows).

except...I see that so many people believe in someone directing them in thier life. "God's Plan". If this is not traditional bible language...I don't know what is.

There are so many people who do believe in an afterlife. I'm just not one of them.

I just read the BB again...and while it states over and over again that we are free to choose a HR of our own...it also keeps stating that we have to "find him now". And lots more bible talk. I also just finished reading, "Came to Believe", and I was very pleased to find that all kinds of different views are written in the chapters. From hard core Bible reciters to atheists.

But in the end...the bottom line..etc...is that we either - 1. already believe in a god. 2. rejected and come back to a god, 3. turn from being an atheist/agnostic. Or 4. come to a definition of HP that works for an Atheist.

So I do feel welcome at meetings no matter what I believe.

The chapter to the agnostic (Couldn't he have written "atheist" too?) wrote that if I was unwilling to accept all religious views then I was closed-minded. And so I do take info from all religions and ideas.


And back to the topic. One of the reasons I go to AA is that there are so many of them where I live. And they are especially helpful in the first stages of getting clean and sober. That is what it is all about. Getting clean and sober.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:10 AM
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Hi LogCabin,

Talk of Higher Power seems like just a matter of semantics to me. Your analogy of looking through different windows is spot on.

Fact is, there is no way to know what God is or isn't, exactly. We all just bring our ego to the topic and create a story that seems to be true for each of us individually. But, not knowing exactly what God is or isn't doesn't diminish the fact that God exists.

For me, God is the Higher Power that enables me to live outside of my self-will. God is the conscious contact I use to try to stay sober and do the next right thing. I know that left to my own devices I will remain self-centered to the point of oblivion, my self-centeredness has always led me to drugs and alcohol.

In this context I'm following, or being directed if you will, by God's plan. I ask God to help me stay sober and to also help me remove the things in my life I don't like about myself (character defects). Perhaps just focusing on these things on a daily basis is in fact "talking to God".

Personally, I believe in the afterlife. I don't believe in salvation though. I think there's nothing to be saved from and God doesn't forgive us. If God created everything, which I believe to be true, why would he need to forgive, in God's eyes everything is as it should be and perfect, we humans are the ones hung up with the guilt complex, and fear driven into us from birth. As a Christian, these beliefs put me at odds with many fundamentalist but that's OK. I'm like you, I believe what I do and make no apoligies and let others believe what they believe without demanding explanations, for the most part at least. I am human and will never be perfect, in this lifetime at least.

So when my ego screams, "that person shouldn't have..." or "a drink would be nice..." or "look how great I am..." or "look how pathetic I am..." or any random thought my ego is liable to throw at me, I need to listen to the inner voice, the intuitive, that is where I find God. That inner voice helps me choose a better path, helps me find a solution...without picking up!


Peace..
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Old 06-15-2008, 02:27 PM
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Hey Log. When I first read your thread all I could think about was, "Geez, another dang atheist"! But after reading your various responses though I figure that you're probably an OK schmoe. As a Christian (and no not one that found God when I was down in the gutter) I love everyone. I may not like certain actions, but I do love everyone. And as such, I respect your opinion about my God. That is, that you don't believe in him.

As a Catholic I can't take the pieces and parts that I like and don't don't like to make up a religion that fits me. That's why there are 30 something thousand Protestant varieties of religion out there today. It's all a matter of "faith" that I believe. Just as I have faith in the brakes on my car, or that there is road on the other side of the hill, or that the plane will fly - so do I have faith in my God.

I am just glad that we all have a connection with this third rock that allows us to continue on our journey of sobriety and recovery. Yours may vary from mine, but hey, it seems to be working.

Thanks to the Forum Leaders for allowing a little lattitude in this thread to air these thoughts.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:16 PM
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Hi LogCabin,

Thanks for sharing your beliefs and experiences. The responses are great too!

Yesterday at my AA meeting, I started my share by trying to explain my Higher Power. I noticed that people were starting to look confused. I went to Catholic schools in my childhood/early teens and I have been a part of Native Canadian (Ojibway) ceremonies and traditions all of my life. I have also come to find an inner peace and a spiritual connection to others & nature. It all comes together as my Higher Power. I can’t really define it and I’m okay with that.

I also find AA to be somewhat “religious” – some of the language in the Big Book, Serenity Prayer to start the meeting, The Lords Prayer to end the meeting. When we talk about our Higher Power, however, people’s beliefs are all over the place. The great thing is, we respect each other’s viewpoints and when all is said and done, we all seem to be talking about the same thing. I think that it is about being open-minded and respecting each other.

AA is such a valuable resource for alcoholics. We may differ on our Higher Power but we share a common enemy and there is a common solution. Regardless of our beliefs, we are there to help each other and it seems to be working out just fine.

By the way, from now on at meetings, I’m just going to say Higher Power – no explanation required!

Best wishes!
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:19 PM
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thanks and ditto gravity!:ghug3
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:21 PM
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Hi log - thanks for sharing this with us. Glad to hear you have found a way that works for you. I knw there can be some controversy in aa with the whole God thing (and things like 3 fold/2 fold illness) but i think whatever keeps someone sober and helps them live a good life is good enough! Live and let live as they say! I personally have a H.P who i choose to call God, but my dad has been sober nearly forty years and his H.P is still AA - he is an atheist too. My mum has been sober over 20 years and she has a H.P who she chooses to call God. Both good examples to me.
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:08 PM
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I like the conversation about it all. I know it can be a touchy subject but when people are openly sharing their views without picking apart other peoples' views, I just really appreciate the dialogue. It's interesting to me.

I feel so grateful for AA - for the way in which my homegroup and my sponsor has guided and supported my sobriety, for the way in which I feel at home like I'm with a completely accepting and supportive family, for the openness and inclusivenss and the example that the very diverse group sets for me to be a good human being.

In a way, that's also what I heard in your post, Log Cabin.

I'm not Jewish but I'm raising 2 Reform Jewish sons - their Dad is Jewish. And I love how our Rabbi talks about God and the issue of what is true and real. Jews love the questions more than the answers. I completely get that. I love it. That's where I can comfortably reside.

I am so grateful that AA has answers to lead me in my sobriety. And when it comes to the question of a HP, I'm so grateful that AA leaves the questions open for each of us to discover in our own way - even if it means being more comfortable with an openended question.

Ranier Marie Rilke is a poet whose work I've really loved. One of my favorite quotes from him is really about love I think, but it applies also to life in general:

"I want to beg you, as much as I can, to be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves like locked rooms and like books that are written in a very foreign tongue...Resolve to be always beginning -- to be a beginner!"
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:31 PM
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Thank you to everyone for your replies. Yes, I have a great internal struggle with my own ideas, and letting them go, or at least being far more open to other ideas that have been shared with me in AA.

And yes...my first real point was to say that meetings can help all of us who really want to get sober. All we have to do is go there, and be a part. Be honest, willing, and open-minded.

And yes...none of us can say there is, or is not an intelligent HP that directs us or not. Even me. All I know is that there is something bigger and greater than me, and I can't explain it, and I can't predict it. What I can do is surrender my willful ways, and practice acceptance of what was, what is, and what will be.

And I love a good thought that helps me feel happiness, peaceful, and love. No matter where it comes from...religion, science, therapy, a book, or drunk man down the street.
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