Anybody with experience with Narconon?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 15
Anybody with experience with Narconon?
I recently found out that the place my BFs' AD is at, is called Narconon.
I wanted to know more so I googled it and was extremely surprised at what I found about it.
I really can't believe that her mom was so set on this place, based on the her past with the church but she has completely bought in to their claims of a 70% success rate.
Anyone here know of others who have used this and how it has worked for them?
There is no changing it now, and I can only hope that no matter what, it works for her.
I wanted to know more so I googled it and was extremely surprised at what I found about it.
I really can't believe that her mom was so set on this place, based on the her past with the church but she has completely bought in to their claims of a 70% success rate.
Anyone here know of others who have used this and how it has worked for them?
There is no changing it now, and I can only hope that no matter what, it works for her.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 15
Her dad is going to see her next weekend. He knows but hasn't said much about it. I was really surprised to read what it is all about. The only info I can find that isn't published by them is very negative but also not very current.
Thats why I'm just wondering if anyone here knows of anyone who has been there.
Thats why I'm just wondering if anyone here knows of anyone who has been there.
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
I don't know of anyone who has stayed, I know of a few people who went until they figured out what it was.
I have nothing good to say about Scientology or Narconon.
I live right by the Scientology buildings, they have more tricks up their sleaves than arm
hairs.
On the other hand, if it works for your friend, that's great for her. That's just me personally.
I have nothing good to say about Scientology or Narconon.
I live right by the Scientology buildings, they have more tricks up their sleaves than arm
hairs.
On the other hand, if it works for your friend, that's great for her. That's just me personally.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 15
I'm with you, I wouldn't have gone anywhere near it.
But she's not my kid, her parents were frantic and that is what they did. I'm sure her mom knew because she found it and took her there. I know her dad had no idea, he just wrote the cheque......and a big cheque it was!
I hope it helps her, but I can't help but wonder who she will be when she comes out.
But she's not my kid, her parents were frantic and that is what they did. I'm sure her mom knew because she found it and took her there. I know her dad had no idea, he just wrote the cheque......and a big cheque it was!
I hope it helps her, but I can't help but wonder who she will be when she comes out.
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Originally Posted by Abcdefgh 
I hope it helps her, but I can't help but wonder who she will be when she comes out.
If she comes out as someone who wants to change her life, to stop using and to walk a better path, the its worth it.
Heck, I would have hung garlic around my kids neck if I thought it would work.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
This was the first stop on my daughter's tour of 3 rehabs in 10-11 days routine ( not to mention my own how to go broke in twelve easy steps). At the time, last fall, I was in a state of shock when I learned she was a heroin addict and she asked for my help to get clean. At the time, I thought all I had to do was put her in rehab and she would be cured. At the time, I thought I could fix it- I could somehow will or love addiction away. I was delusional.
She spent 5 days at Narconon. I knew it was Scientology based and while not my thing, I thought that she might better relate to it than a more conventional HP. She was going to bolt and so I rescued her and from there we proceeded to Hazelden, in Minnesota. That lasted a 5 days before they said she had too many emotional problems and was too great a suicide risk and so she was transferred to a dual-diagnosis rehab #3, in the mountains, in California.
All rehabs work for some of the people, some of the time. No rehab works for all of the people, all of the time. Most addicts relapse until they decide they have had enough of the consequences or they die, regardless of where they rehab.
As long term residential rehabs go in the U.S., Narconon is probably one of the most cost effective. Most of the bad rap that Narconon gets is from parents who expect a rehab to magically cure their adult child of addiction as well as anti Scientologists who often strike me as extreme as Scientology.
At some point, most addicts realize they would rather be anywhere else but stuck in rehab, any rehab and that's when the manipulation really begins.
This is probably the greatest weakness to the Narconon Program----the perception of kookiness makes it too easy to rescue the addict who promices anything to get out.
At the end of the day, Scientology does not kills people. Heroin does.
There is nothing going on in Narconon that is more dangerous than the lives led by the addicts who land there.
She spent 5 days at Narconon. I knew it was Scientology based and while not my thing, I thought that she might better relate to it than a more conventional HP. She was going to bolt and so I rescued her and from there we proceeded to Hazelden, in Minnesota. That lasted a 5 days before they said she had too many emotional problems and was too great a suicide risk and so she was transferred to a dual-diagnosis rehab #3, in the mountains, in California.
All rehabs work for some of the people, some of the time. No rehab works for all of the people, all of the time. Most addicts relapse until they decide they have had enough of the consequences or they die, regardless of where they rehab.
As long term residential rehabs go in the U.S., Narconon is probably one of the most cost effective. Most of the bad rap that Narconon gets is from parents who expect a rehab to magically cure their adult child of addiction as well as anti Scientologists who often strike me as extreme as Scientology.
At some point, most addicts realize they would rather be anywhere else but stuck in rehab, any rehab and that's when the manipulation really begins.
This is probably the greatest weakness to the Narconon Program----the perception of kookiness makes it too easy to rescue the addict who promices anything to get out.
At the end of the day, Scientology does not kills people. Heroin does.
There is nothing going on in Narconon that is more dangerous than the lives led by the addicts who land there.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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I used to live in the area Miss Done refers to. The only thing that Scientolgy has changed about their tactics is that they have gotten better at them. Back in the late '70's and early '80 their 'recruitment practices' were extremely aggressive, and from what I hear from friends that still live out there they have gotten even more so.
It was creepy back then and to me is still creepy now.
I wish her parents luck. Like has been said, if it gets her off heroin and works for her great. However, I believe they may be very 'surprised' at the daughter that comes out of there.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
It was creepy back then and to me is still creepy now.
I wish her parents luck. Like has been said, if it gets her off heroin and works for her great. However, I believe they may be very 'surprised' at the daughter that comes out of there.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 15
Thanks for your thoughts. I'd love to find someone who has actually been there and find out more about it. I keep asking her Dad if there will be any kind of family counselling and he doesn't know.
I will be very interested to hear his thoughts after he spends this coming weekend with her.
I will be very interested to hear his thoughts after he spends this coming weekend with her.
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
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I'll be honest here. Narconon does not have a 70 percent success rate. They have never done a real survey to determine the success of the program. The staff, as of a year ago, are not properly trained if a medical emergency comes up. They do not have their clients go to support meetings such as AA/NA or a secular alternative.
Some of their treatments are outright medically dangerous, such as the dosages of vitamins.
Experts challenge claims of Scientology's sweat-it-out treatment for addicts
Here is another site that is up to date, including a lawsuit filed by a woman who was raped during a "touch assist"
Stop-Narconon.org: Protecting the Vulnerable from Narconon/Scientology
This final website is a series of over twenty articles from the main stream media. The most recent is dated April 2008
Scientology
Some of their treatments are outright medically dangerous, such as the dosages of vitamins.
Narconon has alcohol- and drug-rehabilitation centres throughout North America and Europe. One of the best known is Arrowhead in Oklahoma. Narconon applied to the state's board of mental health for certification. In a report, the board noted that most drugs are removed from the body through the liver, kidney and lungs. "Although minute quantities of some drugs may be found in sweat, the amount represents a small fraction of drug elimination," the board's report stated.
Here is another site that is up to date, including a lawsuit filed by a woman who was raped during a "touch assist"
Stop-Narconon.org: Protecting the Vulnerable from Narconon/Scientology
This final website is a series of over twenty articles from the main stream media. The most recent is dated April 2008
Scientology
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
The 12 Step /Minnesota model is the recognized standard for alcohol and drug addiction treatment in the U.S. It defines alcoholism and addiction as a disease. Being the standard however, has nothing to do with success rates, especially when the DOC is an opiate, cocaine or meth.
Most 12 step based addiction treatment centers do not follow up and have no long term track record.
There are however, some studies ( mostly from programs in prison) that tracked former addicts/inmates for 5,10, 20 and 30 years. Based upon what I have read, the 5 year mark is critical as it is with cancer surviorship. Only then does the liklihood of lifelong abstinence substantially increase.
Hazelden is in the midst of conducting a significant follow-up program where they track former patients, for decades. It relies upon a periodic telephone interviews with the addict and in absence of the addict, the addict's family. There are no exams or tests and stats are based upon what the addict and or family chooses to disclose, or not. It's no too different than what Narconon claims to have done, albeit Hazelden has the resources available to track for decades.
The best research says that the success rate of any rehab increases with each stint in rehab and the length of stay in rehab regardless if the program is 12 step based or not.
Most addiction treatment centers in the U.S. are operated on a for profit basis. It's big business. Most addiction treatment centers do not have in house medical facilities. Most detoxing at addiction centers occurs under the direct supervision of an RN, not an MD. Most addiction treatment centers rely upon cost effective group therapy. Some addiction treatment centers offer family counseling, usually at an additional charge.
As with anything taken to an extreme, some consider AA to be a cult and bad mouthing Bill or the Big Book will get you shown to the door. There are many within AA who believe that total abstinence is not enough- it's a dry drunk, unless the program is worked.
And so, it comes as no surprise that there are a growing number of addiction treatment programs that do not rely on 12 steps. Narconon is only one of them.
Most families expect a treatment center to cure the addict. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's up to each addict and when it's their time, some of them are able to find a reason to live and walk away from their DOC and restart their lives.
Narconon's claim to a 70% success rate is reportedly based upon a 2 year follow-up with a group of previous clients, based upon reports from those clients or their families. I have absolutely no doubt that Narconon is successful with some addicts. No doubt Scientology principles gives some addicts what they need to beat their addiction. Take any religion to its roots or extreme and it get weird.
The leading countries in Europe have, for the most part abandoned rehab and the so called war on drugs. Instead, they have replaced these efforts with safe injection facilities and precribed heroin for addicts. What they are finding is that when an addict has access to heroin, they often rejoin society because they no longer face the daily grind of stealing/scamming and drug seeking.
It's the lifestyle, reused needles and the junk the drug is cut with that causes the most serious long term problems. Heroin itself does no serious harm to the body. I beleive a Pilot Program is operational in Vancouver, right now.
Authoritarian states, such as what existed in China in the 1940-50's eliminated drug usage from the culture because it eliminated users, dealers and manufacturers. As China relaxed its stance and projected a more humanitarian approach, drugs have resurfaced.
The point of this way too long post is that if a program, any program works for an addict and supports a sober life, does it really matter how they achieved sobriety? I am not affiliated with Narconon or Scientology.
Most 12 step based addiction treatment centers do not follow up and have no long term track record.
There are however, some studies ( mostly from programs in prison) that tracked former addicts/inmates for 5,10, 20 and 30 years. Based upon what I have read, the 5 year mark is critical as it is with cancer surviorship. Only then does the liklihood of lifelong abstinence substantially increase.
Hazelden is in the midst of conducting a significant follow-up program where they track former patients, for decades. It relies upon a periodic telephone interviews with the addict and in absence of the addict, the addict's family. There are no exams or tests and stats are based upon what the addict and or family chooses to disclose, or not. It's no too different than what Narconon claims to have done, albeit Hazelden has the resources available to track for decades.
The best research says that the success rate of any rehab increases with each stint in rehab and the length of stay in rehab regardless if the program is 12 step based or not.
Most addiction treatment centers in the U.S. are operated on a for profit basis. It's big business. Most addiction treatment centers do not have in house medical facilities. Most detoxing at addiction centers occurs under the direct supervision of an RN, not an MD. Most addiction treatment centers rely upon cost effective group therapy. Some addiction treatment centers offer family counseling, usually at an additional charge.
As with anything taken to an extreme, some consider AA to be a cult and bad mouthing Bill or the Big Book will get you shown to the door. There are many within AA who believe that total abstinence is not enough- it's a dry drunk, unless the program is worked.
And so, it comes as no surprise that there are a growing number of addiction treatment programs that do not rely on 12 steps. Narconon is only one of them.
Most families expect a treatment center to cure the addict. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's up to each addict and when it's their time, some of them are able to find a reason to live and walk away from their DOC and restart their lives.
Narconon's claim to a 70% success rate is reportedly based upon a 2 year follow-up with a group of previous clients, based upon reports from those clients or their families. I have absolutely no doubt that Narconon is successful with some addicts. No doubt Scientology principles gives some addicts what they need to beat their addiction. Take any religion to its roots or extreme and it get weird.
The leading countries in Europe have, for the most part abandoned rehab and the so called war on drugs. Instead, they have replaced these efforts with safe injection facilities and precribed heroin for addicts. What they are finding is that when an addict has access to heroin, they often rejoin society because they no longer face the daily grind of stealing/scamming and drug seeking.
It's the lifestyle, reused needles and the junk the drug is cut with that causes the most serious long term problems. Heroin itself does no serious harm to the body. I beleive a Pilot Program is operational in Vancouver, right now.
Authoritarian states, such as what existed in China in the 1940-50's eliminated drug usage from the culture because it eliminated users, dealers and manufacturers. As China relaxed its stance and projected a more humanitarian approach, drugs have resurfaced.
The point of this way too long post is that if a program, any program works for an addict and supports a sober life, does it really matter how they achieved sobriety? I am not affiliated with Narconon or Scientology.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 83
Your question
Maam,
I would be extremely hesitant about any kind of program, treatment, detox, or intervention which claims a 70% success rate. Either that is a flat out lie, or they are using some highly unorthodox definition of 'success.' Almost anyone who is experienced with recovering A's will tell you that it is extremely tough to quantify a long term 'success' rate based on any meaningful criteria.
Just a word to the wise about programs that advertise something that in all likelihood they are not.
I would be extremely hesitant about any kind of program, treatment, detox, or intervention which claims a 70% success rate. Either that is a flat out lie, or they are using some highly unorthodox definition of 'success.' Almost anyone who is experienced with recovering A's will tell you that it is extremely tough to quantify a long term 'success' rate based on any meaningful criteria.
Just a word to the wise about programs that advertise something that in all likelihood they are not.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by marshallzhukov
Maam,
I would be extremely hesitant about any kind of program, treatment, detox, or intervention which claims a 70% success rate. Either that is a flat out lie, or they are using some highly unorthodox definition of 'success.' Almost anyone who is experienced with recovering A's will tell you that it is extremely tough to quantify a long term 'success' rate based on any meaningful criteria.
Just a word to the wise about programs that advertise something that in all likelihood they are not.
I would be extremely hesitant about any kind of program, treatment, detox, or intervention which claims a 70% success rate. Either that is a flat out lie, or they are using some highly unorthodox definition of 'success.' Almost anyone who is experienced with recovering A's will tell you that it is extremely tough to quantify a long term 'success' rate based on any meaningful criteria.
Just a word to the wise about programs that advertise something that in all likelihood they are not.
The only thing that can probably be said about any treatment program is that success depends entirely on the addict and their motivation. I would imagine that the pain of the consequences of addiction have to be so overwhelming worse than the feelings derived from the DOC (or substitute) before anything program has a shot at helping.
I have read that heroin is 1000 times better than your best orgasm. Like most people, I cannot comprehend this and thus the power of addiction.
If an addict or his/her family sponsors believe that a treatment program has the magic cure, they are apt to be disappointed with the outcome.
Was it Glinda, the Good Witch, who told Dorthey that she always had the power to get back home? The ruby slippers just helped her believe she did. Did the color of those slippers matter? Know what I mean?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
So... Any results to this?
this is several years old now, so doubt anyone is on here anymore... But-I too would like to know the outcome of a first hand experience to Narconon. I agree that anything is better than the lifestyle living on drugs-and that if it works then GREAT, but if the center really does prey on the addict in their vulnerable state-that's rotten. I know someone that's recently checked into the Arrowhead facility. And I fear that the person who chose the place for him did so out of desperation and because they were nice to her on the phone...
I have been unable to find any real documentation backing their claimed success nor anything really positive in general. I know that with the issue of addiction-it's hard to find positive feedback bc many ppl have distorted expectations, but you would think there would be SOMETHING positive out there for me to find...
This man is intelligent enough to take in what's useful and leave the Scientology propaganda for what it is... I'm just looking for a real experience and whether it was helpful or not.. Granted, it's what the addict makes of it-but they are there for a reason, and if they're misguided and misled that's no good either..
I have been unable to find any real documentation backing their claimed success nor anything really positive in general. I know that with the issue of addiction-it's hard to find positive feedback bc many ppl have distorted expectations, but you would think there would be SOMETHING positive out there for me to find...
This man is intelligent enough to take in what's useful and leave the Scientology propaganda for what it is... I'm just looking for a real experience and whether it was helpful or not.. Granted, it's what the addict makes of it-but they are there for a reason, and if they're misguided and misled that's no good either..
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
urkm2,
I'm not sure if outtolunch will peek in, but I know her daughter has probably 5 years clean now. I'm sure she picked up some recovery tools at all the rehabs she was in. But, I've read where otl has posted eventually her daughter recovered on her own, once everyone got out of her way, and is now a mom herself.
IMO, success rates don't matter. First, how do you define "success"? It could be moderation; it could be abstaining while in the program, it could be at a 1, 5, 10 or 20 year follow-up. So, when a rehab touts an 80% (or whatever) success rate, what does it mean? And, it's all based on self-reporting anyways, which isn't always reliable information.
He's in treatment, either something will click with him, or not. You can’t micromanage his recovery, and you don’t have a crystal ball. So all you really can do is trust the process, and watch what happens. But, the very best thing you can do for him, for yourself, for your daughter and your unborn child is to take the very best care of you. Do your best to eat well, get enough sleep, hydrate, relax, have fun, light exercise, visit with friends and relatives, make it to all your doctor appointments, and take your vitamins or whatever else your doctor has recommended.
I’m sure your family is a great support for you, but you may want to also join a self-help group for partners of substance abusers, or seek group or private therapy. Online forums like SR are great, but face to face interaction with others going thru or who have been thru similar situations and/or professionals who are skilled in the field is invaluable.
I'm not sure if outtolunch will peek in, but I know her daughter has probably 5 years clean now. I'm sure she picked up some recovery tools at all the rehabs she was in. But, I've read where otl has posted eventually her daughter recovered on her own, once everyone got out of her way, and is now a mom herself.
IMO, success rates don't matter. First, how do you define "success"? It could be moderation; it could be abstaining while in the program, it could be at a 1, 5, 10 or 20 year follow-up. So, when a rehab touts an 80% (or whatever) success rate, what does it mean? And, it's all based on self-reporting anyways, which isn't always reliable information.
He's in treatment, either something will click with him, or not. You can’t micromanage his recovery, and you don’t have a crystal ball. So all you really can do is trust the process, and watch what happens. But, the very best thing you can do for him, for yourself, for your daughter and your unborn child is to take the very best care of you. Do your best to eat well, get enough sleep, hydrate, relax, have fun, light exercise, visit with friends and relatives, make it to all your doctor appointments, and take your vitamins or whatever else your doctor has recommended.
I’m sure your family is a great support for you, but you may want to also join a self-help group for partners of substance abusers, or seek group or private therapy. Online forums like SR are great, but face to face interaction with others going thru or who have been thru similar situations and/or professionals who are skilled in the field is invaluable.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
I am the poster who sponsored my daughter's stay at a Narconon facility in Michigan about 7 years ago. I have no regrets even though ( as they told me upfront) she was ready to bolt after a few days. Back then, I felt compelled to rescue her and did so too many times.
The basis of their rehab program is taking responsibility for yourself and learning how to cope with life's ups and downs, without substances. Some get into the whole Scientology thing. Others do not. And many attempt to bolt as they do in more mainstream rehabs.
My expectations, at the time, of any rehab, was that they were going to snap my daughter out of addiction. I was delusional.
My daughter called to inform me she was going to bolt if I did not come get her, chop-chop. So I did and immediately transferred her to world class Hazelton in Minnesota and had a similar outcome. From there, I flew her to a remote place, in California and made sure I "accidentally" took her wallet and ID with me, for safekeeping, of course. That too did not pan out as intended. After months away from home, she relapsed almost immediately, upon return. She was not ready and no amount of manipulation on my part was going to make a difference.
Eventually I sent her to a 5 day one on one program in Texas run by a
" mature" fellow in a hotel meeting room. He was one of many sponsors of this forum and maybe still is. Looking back, I have to laugh. I sent $5000 to a complete stranger to meet my daughter at a hotel a thousand miles away from home. They spent 5 days talking about life and her options. He made a difference. We still keep in touch.
She eventually cleaned up on her own, in her own time. She will always be one lousy decision away from a relapse. This is addiction.
As an aside, I was able to get a prorated refund from Narconon for my daughter's brief stay with them. My experience is the opposite of what some have posted to other online forums.
The basis of their rehab program is taking responsibility for yourself and learning how to cope with life's ups and downs, without substances. Some get into the whole Scientology thing. Others do not. And many attempt to bolt as they do in more mainstream rehabs.
My expectations, at the time, of any rehab, was that they were going to snap my daughter out of addiction. I was delusional.
My daughter called to inform me she was going to bolt if I did not come get her, chop-chop. So I did and immediately transferred her to world class Hazelton in Minnesota and had a similar outcome. From there, I flew her to a remote place, in California and made sure I "accidentally" took her wallet and ID with me, for safekeeping, of course. That too did not pan out as intended. After months away from home, she relapsed almost immediately, upon return. She was not ready and no amount of manipulation on my part was going to make a difference.
Eventually I sent her to a 5 day one on one program in Texas run by a
" mature" fellow in a hotel meeting room. He was one of many sponsors of this forum and maybe still is. Looking back, I have to laugh. I sent $5000 to a complete stranger to meet my daughter at a hotel a thousand miles away from home. They spent 5 days talking about life and her options. He made a difference. We still keep in touch.
She eventually cleaned up on her own, in her own time. She will always be one lousy decision away from a relapse. This is addiction.
As an aside, I was able to get a prorated refund from Narconon for my daughter's brief stay with them. My experience is the opposite of what some have posted to other online forums.
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