Manipulation........?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 30
Manipulation........?
I read on another thread that many A play the 'I love you - go away' thing. What exactly have been your experience with it - if any?
And why do you think they do it?
My ABF ( father of my twins) and I broke up 2 weeks ago, he is going up and down ranting one day, sweet the next. One minute he doesn't love me - the next he does.
He comes to see the twins is really nice and then stands or sits in my presence with this pained expression (??????) I ask what's wrong or whatever and he just shrugs it off. Then he will sigh heavily or something and just look at me. Rubs his face and eyes and really looks terribly pained. I even went outside and sat, so that he could just play with the kids alone and he came put to where I was and just stood there.
It takes me a lot of control not to say WTF?
I text him and asked him about it when he left because it's starting to give me the sh*ts. I mean, I am the one with 2 babies to raise and no money, if I can hold it together - surely it's not too much to ask from him. He's here a whole half an hour..... And he said that he 'wants to come home.' then a few minutes later he said 'but I know it won't work'. Basically through a few more texts he's not ready to give up and he's not ready to come home. 'I dont know, I dont know' he says.
Starting to think that he wants me to feel sorry for him. That he is doing it as tough as me. ppffftt! He has his freedom. I will never feel sorry for him, going about his business while I raise our two children.
Anyway, I think he is trying to manipulate me in some way - but I cant really put my finger on what or why. I have never and will never be able to understand his motives.
Anyone dealt with anything like this?
Anyone got any ideas??
And why do you think they do it?
My ABF ( father of my twins) and I broke up 2 weeks ago, he is going up and down ranting one day, sweet the next. One minute he doesn't love me - the next he does.
He comes to see the twins is really nice and then stands or sits in my presence with this pained expression (??????) I ask what's wrong or whatever and he just shrugs it off. Then he will sigh heavily or something and just look at me. Rubs his face and eyes and really looks terribly pained. I even went outside and sat, so that he could just play with the kids alone and he came put to where I was and just stood there.
It takes me a lot of control not to say WTF?
I text him and asked him about it when he left because it's starting to give me the sh*ts. I mean, I am the one with 2 babies to raise and no money, if I can hold it together - surely it's not too much to ask from him. He's here a whole half an hour..... And he said that he 'wants to come home.' then a few minutes later he said 'but I know it won't work'. Basically through a few more texts he's not ready to give up and he's not ready to come home. 'I dont know, I dont know' he says.
Starting to think that he wants me to feel sorry for him. That he is doing it as tough as me. ppffftt! He has his freedom. I will never feel sorry for him, going about his business while I raise our two children.
Anyway, I think he is trying to manipulate me in some way - but I cant really put my finger on what or why. I have never and will never be able to understand his motives.
Anyone dealt with anything like this?
Anyone got any ideas??
play the tape all the way thru
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 480
Sorry you're dealing with this. To me it sounds like he isn't ready to quit drinking, but yet he wants to be in your life.
My xabf is the same way. One day he texts me mean things and the next he wants me back. Yet he knows I won't take him back as long as he's not in recovery.
My xabf is the same way. One day he texts me mean things and the next he wants me back. Yet he knows I won't take him back as long as he's not in recovery.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 369
Hey there from a fellow twin momma. Yes, it sounds like he's got you on the rollercoaster. My STBXAH has done this before too. He was up and down about staying until I made it clear that I wasn't sitting around waiting for him anymore. The question is what do you want? Do you want to be on the rollercoaster, or are you ready to get off? Believe me, I understand with twins that having an extra set of hands around at all is extremely helpful. However, I think you can make boundaries which make you and the kids safe and prevent him from messing with your emotions.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
heya lightdawns,
Well he's certainly trying to manipulate the mood and the message.
His acting is just to convince himself that this is all about something greater than what he needs to acknowledge and take responsibility for...he wants you to think he is pained and struggling...but as we all know nothing changes if nothing changes and all his talk and acting pained is just that talking and acting. Quack, quack.
You are so strong and so right to not feel sorry for him - while you raise the children and he is free of that responsiblity. I think walking outside and Non-reaction is the strongest thing you can do...hang in there!
(((hugs)))
Peace,
B.
Well he's certainly trying to manipulate the mood and the message.
His acting is just to convince himself that this is all about something greater than what he needs to acknowledge and take responsibility for...he wants you to think he is pained and struggling...but as we all know nothing changes if nothing changes and all his talk and acting pained is just that talking and acting. Quack, quack.
You are so strong and so right to not feel sorry for him - while you raise the children and he is free of that responsiblity. I think walking outside and Non-reaction is the strongest thing you can do...hang in there!
(((hugs)))
Peace,
B.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 523
I agree with Lexus, it does sound like he's wanting his cake and eat it. My xab did the same to me several times. If they can find a way of drinking and having a relationship they will give it a good try.
The last manipulation i put up with was when he told me he had cancer, he was so scared that he would drink, i felt so sorry for him that i let down all my bounderies. Very clever and it worked for a while, till i found out that it was a big ugly lie.
It's good that you are aware of manipulation, always trust your instincts.
Mair x
The last manipulation i put up with was when he told me he had cancer, he was so scared that he would drink, i felt so sorry for him that i let down all my bounderies. Very clever and it worked for a while, till i found out that it was a big ugly lie.
It's good that you are aware of manipulation, always trust your instincts.
Mair x
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
I've observed this situation with my RA son and his xgf. (They have a son together.) They are doing an excellent job of co-parenting but he (my son) is in the very early stages of recovery. I have hopes that they will one day be together again but that is certainly not within my control. I wouldn't blame her if she never got back together with him. They've had a really rocky relationship. He has put her through hell and back. I have no idea if he mentions or pressures her to get back together. It's not my business.
I DO, however, have tremendous respect for her. She holds her ground very firmly and is a wonderful mother to my grandson. She allows a great deal of contact when my son is sober and in recovery. If he drinks (he relapsed a few months ago) that all goes out the window. I support her in her decisions regarding her little son. I told her once that my son is an adult and is able to take care of himself. Her son is a toddler and cannot so it is up to her to protect him (and herself!).
As far as manipulation goes.......if an alcoholic is in active addiction......they manipulate. It seems to just be a part of the disease.
gentle hugs to you and your little twins
I DO, however, have tremendous respect for her. She holds her ground very firmly and is a wonderful mother to my grandson. She allows a great deal of contact when my son is sober and in recovery. If he drinks (he relapsed a few months ago) that all goes out the window. I support her in her decisions regarding her little son. I told her once that my son is an adult and is able to take care of himself. Her son is a toddler and cannot so it is up to her to protect him (and herself!).
As far as manipulation goes.......if an alcoholic is in active addiction......they manipulate. It seems to just be a part of the disease.
gentle hugs to you and your little twins
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 208
I learned in Al-anon (and I get this reinforced reading the SR threads all the time) that As want what THEY want when THEY want it.
As are selfish, self-seeking and self-centered. That is why being of service is such a huge component of 12-step recovery. "Getting" to sweep the floor, put away chairs, make coffee, chair the meeting for absolutely no payoff other than the contribution itself is a very foreign concept to most people who have lost their way in drugs and/or alcohol.
I also learned that as long as I accept unacceptable behavior from an A, they will practice that behavior with no genuine plan for change. Whether THEY ever change is actually not my business. But when I started to make choices that didn't throw me into the path of this bad behavior, be around people in places that are pleasant, refuse to take on the hurt, the guilt and the fears of the A, then MY life started to change.
Manipulation is definitely part of the disease.
I learned this "joke" early on in program: How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? His lips are moving.
(BTW, I am all these things, too, without having a drink, which is why I work the 12 steps on myself through Al-anon.)
abc
As are selfish, self-seeking and self-centered. That is why being of service is such a huge component of 12-step recovery. "Getting" to sweep the floor, put away chairs, make coffee, chair the meeting for absolutely no payoff other than the contribution itself is a very foreign concept to most people who have lost their way in drugs and/or alcohol.
I also learned that as long as I accept unacceptable behavior from an A, they will practice that behavior with no genuine plan for change. Whether THEY ever change is actually not my business. But when I started to make choices that didn't throw me into the path of this bad behavior, be around people in places that are pleasant, refuse to take on the hurt, the guilt and the fears of the A, then MY life started to change.
Manipulation is definitely part of the disease.
I learned this "joke" early on in program: How do you know when an alcoholic is lying? His lips are moving.
(BTW, I am all these things, too, without having a drink, which is why I work the 12 steps on myself through Al-anon.)
abc
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Yep, it's the old "but I want to drink and have no responsibilities and treat you like crap AND I want you to do all the work and ignore my poor behavior and never complain or confront me about it" manipulation.
Just remember who got the short end of the deal when he pulls this crapola on you. In case you're not sure who got the short end, it was YOU. Once I'd distanced myself from my boyfriend emotionally and physically, the pained looks and the poor me game stopped working. I just saw him as a pathetic, broken man who was looking for his next co-dependent victim.
I am only a victim if I choose to be.
Just remember who got the short end of the deal when he pulls this crapola on you. In case you're not sure who got the short end, it was YOU. Once I'd distanced myself from my boyfriend emotionally and physically, the pained looks and the poor me game stopped working. I just saw him as a pathetic, broken man who was looking for his next co-dependent victim.
I am only a victim if I choose to be.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Luzerne
Posts: 1,786
Oh yes he is manipulating you. He wants you to feel sorry for him or provoke whatever emotion it takes for him to get back in the house. It is a recurring skit he will play because he is limited, there isn't much in his bag of tricks anymore. Now, he will try to haunt you, guilt you, break your survialists will and RESIGN yourself to life on his terms.
Here's the next scene in the play. You break down and tell him to come home and he grins over his manipulation or you reject him and he goes straight over to the bar and blames you. In his noodle, he will use this as his excuse to drink.
He could leave and go to an AA meeting or leave and get a job to support his babies, but again.........he'll choose to drink. Prepare yourself because when this doesnt work, he'll kick it up a knotch. He will call or come by at your most vulnerable times dragging around pretending to be depressed and threatening suicide. He will ultimately try to make it your decision if he lives or dies. The thing to remember is that he has no intention of doing so. It is just one more recipe he's trying to get you where he wants to be. Support for your children is not something you ask for. It is his responsibility. The Judge once told me, I can't make him care, I can make him pay. No job? Get one because it all goes in arrears. I stopped being able to see my ex as a man. He isnt coming to see the kids, he's using them to get to you. That would make me mad.
It sounds to me like the fog is clearing and you are seeing who he really is.
Here's the next scene in the play. You break down and tell him to come home and he grins over his manipulation or you reject him and he goes straight over to the bar and blames you. In his noodle, he will use this as his excuse to drink.
He could leave and go to an AA meeting or leave and get a job to support his babies, but again.........he'll choose to drink. Prepare yourself because when this doesnt work, he'll kick it up a knotch. He will call or come by at your most vulnerable times dragging around pretending to be depressed and threatening suicide. He will ultimately try to make it your decision if he lives or dies. The thing to remember is that he has no intention of doing so. It is just one more recipe he's trying to get you where he wants to be. Support for your children is not something you ask for. It is his responsibility. The Judge once told me, I can't make him care, I can make him pay. No job? Get one because it all goes in arrears. I stopped being able to see my ex as a man. He isnt coming to see the kids, he's using them to get to you. That would make me mad.
It sounds to me like the fog is clearing and you are seeing who he really is.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
I think we can all relate to this. I know I can. I recently started to feed into it.
When I first found out about his alcoholism, he told me he was going to get help because he wanted to stop. In fact, he stopped a couple of months before he told me. We was losing a lot of weight that he gained over the time we had been together, but I didn't know why. Anyway, he relapsed several times. Each tim I told him to call me when he got sober. Each time he claimed he had. He finally gave up telling me that and just told me he could control his drinking in February.
The truth is, if he doesn't want to change anything, he won't. My job now is to just accept that and deal with the concept that I may never be with him again.
I don't have any children with him, so I don't have to see him, but I have been working to hand it over to God for the last few days. If it's meant to be it will work out. In the meantime, I have to work on letting him go. I know it's hard, but I really think if I can do that God will put me on the path he wants me to be on.
When I first found out about his alcoholism, he told me he was going to get help because he wanted to stop. In fact, he stopped a couple of months before he told me. We was losing a lot of weight that he gained over the time we had been together, but I didn't know why. Anyway, he relapsed several times. Each tim I told him to call me when he got sober. Each time he claimed he had. He finally gave up telling me that and just told me he could control his drinking in February.
The truth is, if he doesn't want to change anything, he won't. My job now is to just accept that and deal with the concept that I may never be with him again.
I don't have any children with him, so I don't have to see him, but I have been working to hand it over to God for the last few days. If it's meant to be it will work out. In the meantime, I have to work on letting him go. I know it's hard, but I really think if I can do that God will put me on the path he wants me to be on.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 31
Manipulation/selfishness during recovery
Does the common characteristic of manipulation/selfishness, as noted in the posts above, carry over during late stages of recovery?
I was seeing a recovering alcoholic, he is 15 years sober, for a little over a year. He couldn't commit because, as he said, he "couldn't give", was going through a "selfish" time. He blamed this on his divorce - was married for two years and divorced for two years before I met him.
I think I can see him being unselfish but curious as to how common selfishness may be well into recovery . . . I can see how I contributed to his manipulation - allowing him to act with no boundaries. I guess I just don't want to see him treating someone else like a queen. I understand I need to forgive - the breakup is just too new for that yet . . .
I was seeing a recovering alcoholic, he is 15 years sober, for a little over a year. He couldn't commit because, as he said, he "couldn't give", was going through a "selfish" time. He blamed this on his divorce - was married for two years and divorced for two years before I met him.
I think I can see him being unselfish but curious as to how common selfishness may be well into recovery . . . I can see how I contributed to his manipulation - allowing him to act with no boundaries. I guess I just don't want to see him treating someone else like a queen. I understand I need to forgive - the breakup is just too new for that yet . . .
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