makeachange

I hope this isn't against tou or something, but I need a little advice. I'm in a bit of a quandary. For now, I'm still in the marriage, but I don't know for how long. For reasons I don't care to go into right now, I can't act like I might still be considering leaving. My AH has very strongly been pressing me for intimacy. While I've successfully put him off for a couple of weeks, I'm "running out" of excuses and dreading either the big fight that will result from the inevitable "turn down" or the "going through with it." I'm not sure why I feel this way, even when he isn't drinking. I just don't have any desire for intimacy with him in any way. Any ideas, recommendations? Anyone who has been through this? This is brand new territory for me...

T

Artur

Hi T:
I take it that your AH is not in a program of recovery, and more than likely doen't even believe he has a problem? That is a devastating situation to deal with. I speak from experience, as I was the AH and I saw what my wife (ex now) went through, after the fact. We are still friends, now that I am sober, but she has shared with me how she used to hate it when I would want intimacy while I was using. Sometimes she would just do it to shut me up, other times, she would distract me with a trip to the store, or some other way. I regret how hard I made things for her and how selfish I was.
Do you drink? My wife didn't, so that made it worse for both her and me. For her, she had to see the changes in personality and behavior as I slipped more and more into the clawed grips of alcoholism....for me, I didn't have anyone to party with, so I'd usually lock myself in my music studio in the basement and party by myself - sometimes for days. (which was upsetting to her... to say the least) It is hearbreaking for me to think about these days, but I chalk it up as a learning experience for my recovery. I have 559 days of sobriety today, and I consider it a blessing and a miracle.
I don't know why I decided to respond to your post, perhaps I'm just feeling your pain, and want to let you know that I can relate to it. Do you attend Al-Anon or anything like that? It might help you. I attend both AA and Al-Anon...and find it helpful for my own issues. I'm not sure if I was able to help you in anyway, but I can only hope that hearing from someone "who knows your situation" might lessen your pain or at least better understand it...
Please take good care T,

Peace, Love, and Respect,
Artur

Barbara52

What's wrong with honesty saying you aren't interested in sex? Do you really want to compromise yourself in one of the deepest possible ways to placate the man?

As anvilhead said, NO is a complete sentence. And if he forces you, rape is rape even inside a marriage. Call the police if that happens.

NYC_Chick

I can relate to what you are saying. My ex addict bf used to press me for sex all of the time. The consequences of refusing were never good, but I stuck to my guns on it, even when he threatened to kick me out of the house a few times for it, which always seemed to happen right before a big exam or before something big was happening in my life.

To me, sex is just as much emotional as it is physical. Never, Never be intimate if you don't want to. It will hurt you worse to go through with it than any other consequence he could put on you for refusing.

daisyjen

I know exactly what you are feeling.. I am going through and have been going through this for a long time. My RAH has been sober for 16 months now and it hasnt gotten any better. Unfortunately, me denying him only makes things worse in my household, so more often than not, I give in without a fight.

I dont recommend you do this. My RAH is just not willing to accept certain boundaries and I am too weak to stand firm. ( A counselor we went to last yr said it was biblical that I give my body to him, since we are married) I crumble at his constant accusations of infidelity and wonder just what is wrong with me. ( I do want intimacy, just not with him) When he is not around, I resolve to not falter, but when pushed, I do anyway. I cower at the first sign of confrontation, as I have since childhood.

This, and other stuff, has caused me such pain and guilt that I dont know how much more I can bear. Friday was our 16 yr anniversary and all I could do was lay on the couch and cry hysterically.

I hope and pray you dont react like I do. Guard your body and give it only as you want to. Spare yourself the pain and resentment that will surely build if you do things you arent comfortable with.

wish he'd quit

T~ I can relate to this too. I agree with the others about saying no. This is something that I am working on too. I say no now more often than I say yes. In my situation, since the damage is already done there is no turning back for me. I will never look at him the same after all that he has put my through. He also knows that I will not do anything with him while he is drinking. I'm just biding time until I have things in place to get me and the kids out of here.

peaceteach

I'm just wondering what is in these relationships that is making you both stay in such unhappy, self-sacrificing lives? Is it fear of change that has you immobilized with these men? Change doesn't have to be wrong; sometimes it is the right thing for saving one's soul AND spirit. Without those, life is empty to me. Would you want this existence for your daughter? I think both of you deserve a life that is filled with nurturing and love, even it means being without a man for a while.

PrettyViolets

I have a recovering AH who was like GQ guy when he was sober, and he was like Hick guy when he was drunk. His mouth tasted like a lot of different kinds of alcohol which made it usually unenjoyable to French Kiss. Even to today, I will just kiss him, but no FRENCH KISS. Amazingingly enough, he respects my boundaries for when I have said that I do not want to have sex (I do not even have to give a reason--seriously who would want to have with someone who is not really as well into the sex--the other person would have to do all the work).

makeachange

Thanks for the responses. Especially interesting to hear about a guy's perspective. I guess it sounds so easy to just say no. I find that nothing is as easy as it sounds to others. Part of it, I'm sure, is my habit of avoiding confrontation, just give in to keep the peace in whatever the situation is. Part of it is that I feel like I need to keep up the charade to some extent until I decide what and when and how and if I'm going to finally decide on leaving. Part of it is that I feel like I've already given up so much of myself that I wonder why I even care about this now. I mean, what is it really when I compare it to 19 years and my self-worth and my real self? Wow, that sounded dramatic and I'm sitting here crying and not really sure why. It's not like this is a sudden realization, maybe it's because I'm "saying" it out loud to someone else. He just doesn't get how repulsive I find his drinking and his behavior. I drink very rarely and I find that the differences between us, of which there have always been many, are amplified by his drinking. The repulsion doesn't go away when he stops drinking though. He was sober this morning and I still just....couldn't.

I am beginning to find that I don't care very much about the things he says or does much of the time, but that I still want to avoid battling him when I can. I am oddly uninterested, almost blase about a lot of things right now. Maybe that means that my ability to detach is getting stronger, maybe not. Maybe it means that I don't love him anymore, maybe not. Maybe it means that I'm in denial. I just am not sure of much in my life right now. Trying to find some strength and perspective. Thanks for being willing to help and listen.

T

warrens

I find this thread most disturbing. As an addict (recovering) and as a man.

The post is described as a response to intimacy. Not carnality, but intimacy.

As a man, I have a deep need for intimacy with the one I love. I feel that the responses marginalize and stereotype a man's need to both give and receive intimacy. Intimacy isn't something that men take care of "by ourselves."

I am not disputing the lack of feeling. That happens. I agree that intimacy is not something to "submit" to. If it ain't there, it ain't there. Mere submission is a form of deceit.

My recovery is dependent upon facing reality and dealing with it, however painful that might be. Do the right thing and be honest with the one who is involved. To do so only when "convenient" is not so different than a cheating husband who reveals his disaffection only after years of cheating.

Tell him that you are no longer attracted to him. That you will never be. The damage has been done. He deserves to move on with his life as you do yours.

Respectfully,

warren

peaceteach

T,

I completely understand the feeling of things that sound easy to others not sounding that easy to me. Also, I know I hated confrontation so much with my exAH and would do whatever necessary to avoid it. I feel so badly about this whole sex topic for you gals, and it makes my heart ache that you are in a situation where you feel forced to do it to avoid the confrontation. Again, I just ask, can you entertain the thought that if THIS is the way your life is going to be, with no changes, how long will you stay?

It was sooooo hard for me to make that choice that "this is it" and "I'm not ever going to live this way again" when I made the final step to end my marriage. I wasn't sure, I wasn't strong, and I wasn't proud of myself or any of those really upbeat, empowering words. I was beaten, emotionless, and in great danger mentally with depression. I didn't know if he would get sober or not, didn't care about anything at that point. I just knew I was headed for a complete mental breakdown and it scared me enough to make me act. I think I waited too long, and it didn't have to be that way. But I also know that we all have to reach that point in our own time and imagine you just aren't there yet. Please know that in no way was I criticizing your actions or the battles you pick or don't pick--I completely understand and have been there. I just wanted to tell you I am sorry that you are living this life right now and I wish I could do something to make it better for you (codie alert!) because I am just so sick of the way some of you girls are being treated by your A's and, well, it just sucks!

wish he'd quit

In my situation I am slowly but surely taking back my power. I have to be careful though about how I go about things. My AH is verbally abusive and even if he isnt drinking has depression issues. If I tell him no I dont want to be intimate that is when the crap starts. I have begun leaving for awhile with the kids when he starts with abusive behaviors and manipulative talk.

He must have been in rare form today. He asked me for some "lovins" because that is what married people do. When I asked him why I should after he sent me nasty messages the last few days, he said " Well you know how I am."

itisatruth

This hit home for me. I have been playing the self-sacrificing one for so long. It is what I do. Have always done....in my family, in my marriage.....to keep the peace. Its always been easier for me to suffer than to make others do it. Also, the fear of change is the worst for me.....even though I do know that change can be good......for me it is just too "easy" to do nothing rather than do anything else. I know there is an acronym for FEAR. Still working on it, I guess.

wish he'd quit, it is easier said than done sometimes, so for today, keep doing what you CAN to "take back" your power. Do what you CAN today to get away from the abusiveness, and maybe very soon you will have the strength you need give yourself the gift of happiness. (((((HUGS)))))

underwood

I also find this thread disturbing....but on many levels. I do not feel that the intimacy that is discussed here is carnal in nature, instead I believe that the intimacy discussed is just that...intimacy. For many of us that are involved with alcoholics it is a lack of intimacy brought on by shame, and deep hurt that are forefront and center. I long for intimacy with the man that I married however I feel that as an alcoholic the intimacy that he wants is motivated by power and denial not from the heart as true intimacy reveals itself. I feel that women are different than men in that love and intimacy are one...Sloppy sex is just that, no matter how you dress it up. Relationships are built on trust, love and intimacy. It doesn't take a lot of drunken incidents for trust and intimacy to unravel for the non-drinker.

underwood

Boy does this sound familiar. 90% of my time is spent doing for others and keeping the peace. How sad is that. I am coming to the point though that it has to change. FEAR is something I can relate to but I too must work on it.

loner1968

This thread is awesome! It's making me think of a side of this whole thing that I never did before.
I would love for us to keep this going for awhile.

Barbara52

This just brings tears to my eyes. I am so sorry that you are going thru this.

loner1968

This thread is awesome! It's making me think of a side of this whole thing that I never did before.
I would love for us to keep this going for awhile.

Barbara52

I don't see the request (or demand) for sex from an active alcoholic as a request for intimacy. Wanting intimacy requires caring, openness, honesty, and many other things that just aren't there in a relationship with an alcoholic. How many of us have described the alcoholic in our lives as emotionally distant? You cannot have intimacy with an emotionally distant person.

I suspect that sex becomes a substitute for intimacy, much easier to have sex and think it equates to intimacy. Many people fall into that line of thinking even when alcoholism is not involved. And for many its easy to give one's body totally without emotional involvement or intimacy.

And if sex doesn't have intimacy behind it, well, then it can easily be a violation of my person emotionally and physically. Not something I personally can willingly do. I do understand putting out to keep the peace when they threat of abuse is there. That is self preservation until one is ready to take more affirmative action to protect oneself.

ToughChoices

I know that people will disagree with me here, - and that's OK - but I really take issue with the idea that women are somehow fundamentally different than men when it comes to sex.

Don't get me wrong: The original poster should not have sex with anyone if she doesn't want to. Her stance is 100% valid and understandable.

I just kind of think that the lack of desire probably stems more from a painful relationship history and an absence of physical attraction than from any general gender issue.

-TC