makeachange

I've read some about setting boundaries with the alcoholic in your life, and I've been trying to do some of that with my AH. So far, I haven't been able to get much success with it. Please tell me if the following story was me setting a boundary or giving an ultimatum; maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I told my AH a little bit earlier that I had to work later tomorrow and would be getting home a couple of hours later than usual. Because of that, I said, I would like him to make sure we don't have any company tomorrow night. (This is an ongoing battle at our house; he makes it party central for all of his flunky friends and totally disregards that this is my house too.) His response was that he would not be telling anyone that they couldn't come over or running anyone off and that if I wanted someone to leave it would be my responsibility to tell them to go. After all, he said, he likes people unlike me. Then he said, you know that ultimatums don't work on me and I'm not going to ever do anything as a result of an ultimatum. After that he stormed off to bed.

Okay, I thought I was explaining what was going on tomorrow and what my boundaries were to avoid a fight. I thought that being clear about where I stood would be a good thing. He didn't appear to be drunik, though reasonably I know he has been drinking throughout the day and evening. What did I do/say wrong? Have I somehow missed the purpose or delivery of a boundary versus an ultimatum?

T

NYC_Chick

It doesn't sound like an ultimatum to me. I sounds like a boundary.

Is it possible for you to tell them to leave? I wouldn't have a problem doing it, I don't think, if had to live with all those people around in my house.

(((makechange)))

wish he'd quit

This sounds like what goes on at our house. I am the stick in the mud because I don't like people at my house outside playing the loud music and keeping the kids up. Or I just don't want to be around it plain and simple.

I would take that as a boundary. Its not like you were saying if it happens this is going to happen. I'm new at this stuff so I may be wrong but thats my opinion on it.

Barbara52

It doesn't read to me as a boundary or an ultimatim. I read it as a reasonable request. And we all know reasonable and alcoholic just do not mix.

A boundary would be saying something along the lines of I need peace and quiet when I get home from work. If you invite friends over, I will do X.

An ultimatim would be saying something along the lines of Don't invite people over to drink or X will happen.

The question for you is what are you going to do if there are people ther when you get home from work?

steve11694

Is an ultimatum not but a boundary set with an angry mood?

Perhaps the line between boundary and ultimatum is thin.

Such as the difference between love and hate, can be a thin line.


I guess I was lucky. While still living with AW she didn't bring flunky friends to our home. AW stated they "drink too much" LOL and/or use drugs. AW liked a "safe haven" from "those" people.

angelfromheaven

Perhaps suggesting him that one day it's your rules (i.e. alone at home - if he really wants to be with friends he can go out, his choice) and the other day it's his rules (friends can come home). Not sure this would work for you but in my opinion it is reasonable and puts your needs in the open.
Good luck

justanothrdrunk

Doesn't sound like a boundary or an ultimatum to me either. I'm not seeing the consequence. From what I read, you indicated your preference but not what would happen if that boundary was crossed. Either you left that part out of your post or something.

When I was in active addiction, I wasn't capable of thinking rationally about anything. And any time my wife criticized my behavior it turned into a personal attack on me, in my mind anyway.

Any time anyone threw a boundary my way, I saw it as an ultimatum. It's never about the other person. It was always about me. It became a contest with me sometimes. It wasn't about what was good for my wife or I. All that mattered to me was that I won.

Freedom1990

I didn't see a consequence either. Boundaries are to define what you will/will not accept, and what the consequence is if the boundary is crossed.

Just telling an alcoholic what you want is about as effective as sticking a round peg in a square hole.

I am so incredibly grateful I don't have to live that way anymore. My EXAH had people in and out, in and out, no respect whatsoever. It wasn't my home; it was his party house.

sunshine321

I agree that it doesn't sound like a boundary or ultimatum.

webster's

Ultimatum - a final proposition, condition, or demand; especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action

Boundary - something that indicates or fixes a limit or extent

I think you made a request that your AH didn't like so he took it to the next level. He felt threatened that you were requesting a change that he didn't want. I would call his bluff and when you get home tell his friends you'd like everyone to leave for the night. You may feel like the bad guy but you shouldn't. You are entitled to enjoy your evening too.

Oh and for the record, you can't avoid fights. The active alcoholic can always find something to fight about with you. That's just the way it is. To expect a reasonable relationship with an active addict is not reasonable.

J

freya

I think a lot of good stuff has been said about boundaries and ultimatums, but I do want to address the comment above. Personally, while I certainly cannot stop the A from trying to start a fight, I most definitely can -- and do -- avoid fighting. The fact that the alcoholic wants to fight does not mean that I have to oblige him/her. It takes at least 2 to fight and I do not have to engage ; I do not have to participate. When it becomes clear to me that the A is looking to start a fight, I say calmly and simply: "It doesn't appear that you are in a place where you can discuss this calmly and rationally right now, so this coversation is over at least unitl you are in a better place." And then I shut up and, if necessary, leave the scene.

At one point, when she was in relapse and I had just begun practicing this behavior, she actually followed me out of a restaurant into the parking lot sceaming at me at the top of her lungs, trying to get me to engage. (I have to admit it did feel kinda awkward and embarrassing, but, in hindsight, why should I have been embarrassed -- I was not the one being an obnoxious *ss!!!!!) After a few times of my refusing to go there with her, she realized that I was serious and that, when I set that boundary, I was absolutely going to enforce it. Now, she tries to start fights much, much less frequently and, when she does and I set the boundary, she desists immediately....because she knows from past experience that she can no longer pull me into that BS.

....methinks this is called successful behavior modification....for both of us!

freya

makeachange

Well it's good to hear that I evidently didn't give an ultimatum, and now I realize what I left out of a boundary. I didn't say what the consequence would be if he crossed my boundary. Honestly, I was so shocked at his rudeness that I was speechless. You'd think I wouldn't be shocked by much after living with an abusive AH for almost 19 years, but I was. He called me at work just a bit ago and said that he'd told all of his friends not to come over tonight. I asked him what made him change his mind and he said it was because he cared more about me than his friends. That should make me feel good, right? The weird thing is it doesn't. It almost makes me feel worse. I'm so angry and disgusted with putting up with his crap constantly that I'd rather he just be a jerk all of the time instead of this constant "flipping" between Jekyl and Hyde. Now he wants to know what he can grill for dinner and if I'm feeling all right and if he needs to do anything for our teen. The thing is I know it's not real, it won't last. He's pretended to change too many times for me to believe him now. Sometimes I think it would be easier if he'd just stay a drunk jerk; that way I wouldn't constantly question my desire to leave him. I'm sick of the roller coaster of stress and anger, but I haven't quite figured out how to get off. No, that's not right; I haven't quite mustered the courage to get off the ride. Sigh....

T

CatsPajamas

I love that much of our program is Just For Today. It sounds to me that, just for today, you will be able to come home to your house without it being filled with people. Just for today, your H might be cooking supper. Perhaps you can have a conversation with him to let him know how you feel about things, and perhaps you guys can come up with a compromise of some sort that allows you to be able to rest and relax after work AND one that allows him to spend time with his friends.

You'll know when it's time. You'll just know.

Hugs
Cats

Shivaya

Makeachange....I think you took those words right out of my mouth!!!!

I can totally relate...and I would add to the above thoughts....sometimes I wish he'd be unfaithful to me....that's my deal breaker....then I could file for divorce and no one would blame me.....

I feel that if I divorce him now....people (my children included) would feel bad for him, and think that I am being unreasonable.....I know, I know, who cares what others think.....uugghhhh....this is a tough one for me!

Shivaya

LostGuy

I speak from experience here, so trust me when I tell you whether it be the drinking or the cheating or both, there will be people who will feel bad for A. and people who think you should have left long ago. I've come to believe it has more to do with them and their life than yours. :chatter

Barbara52

I have learned to stop living my life based on what other people might be thinking and instead live based on what I know to be what is best for me and my sons. I will consider other people's opinions and advice when offered (sometimes) but I act based on my own thoughts, beliefs and needs.

minnelson6200

I've felt the same way, so much so it even started coming out in my dreams. But for me it's not so much that no one else would blame me, but that then I wouldn't blame myself. Cheating is a clearly defined boundary that I've laid out for him. He knows the consequences of that behavior and I know what I would have to do if it happened. Sometimes I want it to happen because I haven't identified my boundaries nearly so well with the alcohol. Seems like it would be easier, but I doubt it really would be.