tay-lyn

So I've been doing a LOT of thinking about this whole 'struggle/battle' thing I've written about. I have been determined to express how I feel about it and have other's understand.
In doing that, I thought perhaps I should try to understand what others were telling me about there not being a 'stuggle/battle' if you completely surrender. So I've given other's input some serious thought.
When I think about 'not drinking'....not sobriety, but NOT DRINKING. When I think about not drinking, I feel a struggle, a battle, a war inside me. Others have expressed not feeling that. So I thought 'what can make someone so resigned to an idea that they don't struggle with it?'. Perhaps knowing it isn't a choice??? Sounds simple. If I put my hand in fire I will get burned. So putting my hand in fire isn't an option. Simple. What makes me think maybe next time I do put my hand in fire I won't get burned? Nothing makes me think I won't get burned. I KNOW FOR A FACT I will get burned. I don't have a choice. Doing one thing automatically means the other will happen. No choice involved. No control. Simple. I don't sit around a camp fire and struggle to not put my hand in it. I don't see a fire on tv and think 'oh my god, if that fire were really here right now I'm sure I'd stick my hand in it!'. So why do I feel a struggle with the drink?
I KNOW I have no control.
I KNOW next time won't be different.
I KNOW all the things that will happen with just one drink.
So why the struggle?
What inside me makes me struggle? I KNOW the outcome. Why can I not see the choice to drink as simple as the choice to not stick my hand in fire?
I dunno!
I DO know that when I think about drinking as something I CANNOT do, I don't struggle with it. But I know I CAN if I want. Is that the problem? Have all my bottoms not been enough? I KNOW I never want to drink again, so why do I struggle?

Dee74

maybe you've hit on it Tay - you know you can't drink again, but you're not entirely happy with that ? That's your call to make - I know I had to drink until I was ready to give it up and not feel resentful. I hope you're there

maybe it's perspective - for me, once I stopped looking at drinking/not drinking as THE PROBLEM and started instead to look at me and work on whatever was lacking in me that I needed to fill with drink, the 'struggle' got a lot easier, and well...vanished...really

D

Anna

What Dee said could be right Tay.

I mourned the loss of alcohol in my life, when I finally let it go. It was a loss. And, after awhile I stopped grieving for it. I didn't struggle with the issue though, once I accepted that I could not drink.

Have you read "Drinking: A Love Story" by Caroline Knapp? It's one of my absolute favorite books. It's a memoir by a young, high-functioning alcoholic woman and it's so honest. She talks about her love affair with alcohol and how she gave it up. I knew when I read it, that if she could do it, I could do it. I loved the book.

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA

Hi Tay,

Um..just gonna ramble here. I don't struggle anymore and I think the reason is that I've surrendered. I can't really put the actual act of it into words..but for me, I've given up my own control in this life to my HP. I don't have to struggle anymore with anything (people, places,things)..often times I STILL DO..but I really am getting to a point where "it's" not mine to struggle with anymore..

Have you done the first step? Maybe time to re-do that one if you have..

hugs

Karen

cmc

tay-lyn,
Thanks for sharing. Your post really got my attention, especially this part. I'm in Alanon but the solutions are the same.
I'm not so sure that surrender should ever come easy. In war, a conflict always precedes a surrender. Surrendering requires the will to do it, and once it's done the conflict is over.
I like the fire analogy. If I'm not certain before I surrender to the element of fire, laws of gravity or any other thing out of my control; I might, in the back of my mind, for just a minute, believe that can touch fire without being harmed.

Hevyn

In the past, every time I was successful in just having "a few" it gave me renewed hope that I could still control my drinking. So the memory of the times I was able to use willpower is what caused me to struggle. While there's no doubt you'll get burned if you stick your hand in fire, there was - for me - a (tiny) doubt that I'd get drunk every time I drank, because sometimes I managed not to. In the end, of course, there was never any control ever, and when I was finally convinced of that is when the battle was over, no more struggle. (Only took 25 years.)

That was so thought provoking and well expressed, Tay - thank you.

scaredykat

What I have done recently that helped when i was struggling was suggested by a friend to write out step by step what would happen if you picked up again. Write everything in detail. Even write things that haven't happened to you in the past, BUT could. It helped me a lot seeing everything I wrote.

I also pray simple prayers to my HP every morning and every night before bed.

Barb

tay-lyn

Thanks to all for the great input.

Scared: I have a journal in which I write everymorning about my drinking. I write about what happens when I drink, what has happened, etc., etc.. It is GREAT therapy.

Dee, thanks for your input. You are absolutely right (I say through grinded teeth ) I think I resent the fact that I cannot drink. I still wish I could drink....without consequence that is. What does that mean?

I thought I had surrendered and accepted. I looked up the words 'surrender' and 'accept' to see if perhaps I had missed something. But according to their definitions, I believe I have surrendered and accepted. I'm just bitter about it. Will that go away? Or will it fester inside until I talk myself into drinking again? I do the work on 'ME' that I should. I read the books, I talk about my disease, I reach out for help. And yet I'm bitter/resentful about not drinking.

I am by nature a grudge holder. Perhaps that is what I am feeling. Grudgeful feelings towards 'not drinking'. Maybe I've just hit on something I need to look at and work on. The fact that I hold grudges. Hmmm.

Thanks for listening.
Tay.

dave47

Thanks Tay and everyone for all the interesting points. With myself, after years I looked at what I had become and felt that with a loving family I owed it to them and myself to change things around. With a certain sadness I finally accepted that I couldn't have even one drink, all attempts had failed. I have read much, including all the wise words and different points of view on SR which have helped me gain an all round better view.
I have tried to be more positive rather than the negative person I had become. I bite my tongue now when in the past I would have reacted. I work hard, I enjoy being with my family and I get regular exercise. I think all these things have helped me not want to drink or to be envious. I don't feel that I struggle at all and think that much as all these changes keep it that way, initially I surrendered to the fact that I just couldn't do it anymore.

warrens

Tay

You are making great progress. Surrender is a very difficult concept for the strong to comprehend. those of us with strong wills and keen intelligence do not "get" this sort of thing easily. It is not magic. It is not mystical, it simply requires looking at things in a totally different way than what we are used to.

Galileo, Kepler, Einstein, Darwin, Watson and Crick, et al set the world on it's ear. They forced people to look at things in a completely new way. Feminists, civil rights leaders, and gay rights advocates have had a similar effect in our time. What was taken for granted just decades ago seems totally foreign.

I recently read The Sarpashana Sourcebook on recommendation here. It is a 221 page .pdf document. Much of it is crap, in my opinion. But the first section (the effect of alcohol on the body) and the second half are very interesting indeed. The chapter on Dr. Tiebout and especially the section on Gregory Bateson and the double bind of alcoholism. It is rather difficult reading, but also astonishing. Demonstrates, from a psychiatric perspective, how struggle practically insures that we will relapse. Seriously. The stronger our will, the more likely we will succumb. Read it more than once. The essay is also contained in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an Ecology of Mind."

You are struggling with struggle, Tay. That is a great thing. I've gone through it and continue to. If you read the stuff I suggested, you will see that there is nothing mystical about surrender. If it were, I'd never be able to accept it.

http://www.shambhala.org/dharma/sarp...Sarpashana.pdf

warren

least

I think I've just gotten a bit of insight as to why I feel so exhausted all the time. I'm in a constant battle against demon alcohol. I'm winning at the moment but the struggle is taking its toll on me. I FEEL LIKE I'm always in a fight, hence the feeling tired all the time. Maybe I should put my energy into surrender, and not feel like I'm fighting all the time...

NoelleR

Hey tay ----

I've wanted to respond since I first read your original post yesterday, but I wasn't sure just what I wanted to say, but your most recent post reminded me of one thing.....


You said, "...I thought I had surrendered and accepted...I believe I have surrendered and accepted. I'm just bitter about it...I'm bitter/resentful about not drinking..."

This reminded me of why the serenity prayer doesn't say for us to accept things we cannot change but we ask for the SERENITY to accept the things we cannot change.....it's all about a change in attitude.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As to your original post, and your 'struggles.' I'm not sure I'll say this right, but I hope it's a tad understandable.....I'm one of those folks people love to hate....I never struggled.....grrrrrrr, right? So, I can't truly relate to you, but I can tell you what I did.....

In your original post, and in your most recent post too, you write a lot about you're thinking about NOT drinking.....of course, the first thing that came to my mind was to suggest that you STOP thinking about not drinking, but we all know how silly that is....suggesting someone stop thinking about something only makes them think about it more....lol

What I can say is that when I first started in recovery, I didn't think about NOT drinking.....I had enough other things on my mind....like, since, after a week into recovery I lost my job, which included a place to live, therefore I had to think about where I would sleep, or where I would find a job, heck.....where my next meal would come from.....

So, I guess my suggestion to you would be to change your thinking...I'm a firm believer in that I may not be able to change many things, but I can always change my mind....and so can you.....Perhaps if you took your focus off what you can't/don't want to do and start thinking on the things you can do....the things you should be doing.....the things you will do.....? now, these are only suggestions, but I'm also a firm believer in the positive over the negative....and whatever we think about we give power to (so, not' drinking is a negative; and thinking about drinking, but in a negative way; thinking about doing your laundry is positive, thinking about grocery shopping is positive.....

Perhaps my suggestion is too simple....but then, that's me, a very simple person.....who didn't and doesn't struggle..... (o:

Here's hopin' this might have helped, or even a we bit understood.....


NoelleR

tay-lyn

Thanks Noelle; Sometimes it's the simplest things I find the most difficult. I can't understand something that I cannot pick apart and see the makings of. I was always a great student because I needed to know the 'why' behind evey answer to my 'why'. I was a great problem solver because I could drill down to the root of a problem and work my way back up. It is the simple things that baffle me. It sounds silly but it is true. Things that I have to just accept. Things that need no figuring out. Things that just 'are'. These things which don't require any breakdown, disection are hard for me to accept because I'm always looking for the proof of what makes something valid.
Yes, I've seen enough proof that I cannot drink. But being able to accept it without being able to fix it is difficult. I want to drill down, find the problem and then solve the problem. In my brain I KNOW there is no fixing the problem, but my NATURE tells me differently. I am inclined to fix things. My NATURE has trouble simply accepting and moving on.
I really like what you said Noelle about the serenity prayer. We ask for serenity to accept the things we cannot change. That is quite profound for me. That is what I need. To be able to simply accept. Not just KNOW. But to accept and move on. Yes, I will always have to do recovery work, but I need to move past my resentment about not being able to drink in order to get anything out of my recovery work.
More good food for thought!
Tay.

GlassPrisoner

Good point. In order to surrender, you have to be fighting first......

Jomey

Hi Tay - This is a really interesting post, thanks for sharing your thoughts. My experience was a lot like Hevyn's....I know if I stick my hand in the fire, I will get burned - FOR SURE. But I never really, truly in my heart of hearts believed that about drinking. I would "control" it for a while, and then before I knew it, it was outside my control again. I never really hit a terrible bottom, I just knew deep inside that I would be happier without drinking. I think I subconsciously knew what Dee said...that I needed to work on the "empty" parts of me that I was "filling" with drinking...and when I started looking for those empty spots, I found them IN SPADES!!! I understand your resentment that you can't drink, but maybe if you look at the reasons, really deeply, you will lose the resentment by replacing the fulfillment of your needs with something other than alcohol.

Hope that made any kind of sense! I envy your ability to express yourself so clearly, Tay! Love, Jomey

mle-sober

Hi Tay -

Very interesting post - makes me think about a lot of things. Thank you.

I'm always anxious because I definately do struggle not to drink. And I know that the more time that passes (I'm on day 76) the more I feel like I am not doing it right. I shouldn't be struggling so much by this stage! My AA friends tell me it gets better.

I did experience a very specific and unique surrender (for me) when I first admitted I was an alcoholic and I couldn't stop without help. It was a dramatic moment that came spontaneously out of me, it felt. I literally fell on my knees sobbing and asked God for help saying out loud, "I'm a hopeless alcoholic and I cannot quit! Please, please help me!") But this was not something I did purposely - it just was something that came upon me like a lightening bolt. Truly. I know that is not common and I feel so grateful when I think about it.

So then, as I've been in outpatient treatment and found a sponsor and attending AA, everything led me to believe that I'd have a similar experience where the "curse" of the desire to drink would be removed from me. That hasn't happened. I don't have physical cravings anymore, but I still do have a desire to drink. And I am battling it more some days than others but I do feel if I looked away for a second, I'd find myself drinking.

My sponsor says as I work the steps, this will go away. And it's different for everyone. For me, it's not a bitterness or resentment that I can't drink. It a knowledge that I WILL drink, for sure, if I don't keep a constant vigil. That sounds like the battle others have written about. And it's awful and I want it to end.

hope45

I may be completely off base on this idea, but I wonder if there is more of a struggle with the idea of never drinking again when people quit at a younger age. I'm 45 years old and drank for 30 years. I feel like I've "been there, done that" and I am DONE. I think this would have been far more of a struggle if I'd tried to quit fifteen or twenty years ago. I've had a chance to sow my wild oats, so to speak. At this point in my life, I don't feel like I'm missing out on things quite as much as I would have when I was younger. I wish I had quit back then, I could have saved myself a lot of misery, but I think that feeling of bitterness you talk about Tay would have been right there front and center.

Dee74

Dunno about all that Tiebout stuff I doubt you'll like it anymore than I did Tay.
For me the key was not my will, so much as acceptance.

I had to accept - truely accept - that I was an alcoholic and that I could never drink again. I also had to accept that this was unfair, it sucked and was just another bloody thing on my bloody plate.

Maybe most of all - I had to accept that there was no way that even my gigantuan brain could just let me drink a little....

it took me 15 years to accept that - but I drank to the point where not drinking was a relief, not a cause for resentment....

I probably would not be here to type this if I hadn't reached that point...I hope your brain is even more gigantuan than mine LOL and you reach it, like, now...

D

Anna

This is an interesting thread!

You know mle-sober, I don't think it will need to be a constant vigil, that you keep.

For me, it has become a way of life. I always talk about balance because that's what works for me - physical, spiritual and emotional. If I let any of those areas go, for more than a day or two, I pay the price by starting to feel down and like I'm losing my way. So, it is part of every day life, but not a vigil. And, it's a positive thing.

Just give it a little more time.

Hilltopper1972

Resentment and asking the question "Why me?" gets us all. I think that is why I kept drinking as long as I did in the first place. I knew I had a problem quiet awhile ago, but for selfish reasons I figured "Quitting Time" was just some future date that I could put off till tomorrow. It totally sucks that none of us can go to a party and have a few beers like most other people and have a good time. We all know we would have so many that we'd end up blacking out or getting into trouble or whatever. Getting over the resentment is different for everybody. Some people accept the facts as they are and move on to healing fairly quickly, some people linger in that resentment stage for quite some time.
I am feeling very blessed as of this moment for my decision to quit drinking. I know so many alcoholics. Two are completely out of control. Several more are on their way to becoming out of control. Of all those I know, I quit with the help of God, not them. How could I not be so grateful for the position I'm in? That my friend should make you feel awesome!