New here, hoping for some input/advice?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
New here, hoping for some input/advice?
Hi everyone,
I've never posted anything online before, let alone asked for input from strangers, but I've been reading through a lot of the threads on this site and I think you're a helpful and attentive crowd...
My boyfriend, a wonderful man, has been sober for almost 13 months and feels as secure as he can (given the nature of the disease) in his sobriety. We have only been together for 4 months, but we are very close and are in love. After some time, if things continue on this same path, we are both interested in pursuing marriage.
In the meantime, I just learned that during one stretch of his 20 years of drinking, a stretch of 4-5 years in his early 20s, he had sex with what I consider an unusually large # of women. Let's say he slept with 4 times as many people in 4-5 years as I have in my adult life (almost 20 years).
I can't seem to get my head around this idea - he didn't want to tell me, but gave in, then said (after I expressed how surprised/bothered/confused I was by this info) that I shouldn't be worried or upset about his promiscuity back then because "it wasn't him" - "it was him as an alcoholic." Basically, that the alcoholic him is dead, was a former life, and has nothing at all to do with him now (the good man, the sober man, he is now, which he is). Thus, he considers the start of his actual (now) life to have been 13 months ago when he quit drinking, and nothing before that matters/shouldn't concern me.
How am I supposed to separate the now-him from the then-him? The two hims are polar opposites of one another, from everything I can tell. I'm not concerned about STDs - he's clear on that front. My concern is rooted in the fact that he seems to deny responsibility for his actions during this promiscuity and rests it all on the demon alcohol.
Does this make sense to anyone out there? Is this a common belief held by recovering alcoholics? Can/Should I really disassociate the now-him from the then-him?
I am not concerned about his fidelity, just to be clear. It's really a problem I'm having with not being able to understand his behavior then vs. his complete disownment (is that a word??) of it now. As though he were two different people entirely, Jekyll & Hyde.
I've got the good one now, but the idea that the thoughts and memories of the bad one are still in my good one's head is really troubling me.
Thoughts??
I've never posted anything online before, let alone asked for input from strangers, but I've been reading through a lot of the threads on this site and I think you're a helpful and attentive crowd...
My boyfriend, a wonderful man, has been sober for almost 13 months and feels as secure as he can (given the nature of the disease) in his sobriety. We have only been together for 4 months, but we are very close and are in love. After some time, if things continue on this same path, we are both interested in pursuing marriage.
In the meantime, I just learned that during one stretch of his 20 years of drinking, a stretch of 4-5 years in his early 20s, he had sex with what I consider an unusually large # of women. Let's say he slept with 4 times as many people in 4-5 years as I have in my adult life (almost 20 years).
I can't seem to get my head around this idea - he didn't want to tell me, but gave in, then said (after I expressed how surprised/bothered/confused I was by this info) that I shouldn't be worried or upset about his promiscuity back then because "it wasn't him" - "it was him as an alcoholic." Basically, that the alcoholic him is dead, was a former life, and has nothing at all to do with him now (the good man, the sober man, he is now, which he is). Thus, he considers the start of his actual (now) life to have been 13 months ago when he quit drinking, and nothing before that matters/shouldn't concern me.
How am I supposed to separate the now-him from the then-him? The two hims are polar opposites of one another, from everything I can tell. I'm not concerned about STDs - he's clear on that front. My concern is rooted in the fact that he seems to deny responsibility for his actions during this promiscuity and rests it all on the demon alcohol.
Does this make sense to anyone out there? Is this a common belief held by recovering alcoholics? Can/Should I really disassociate the now-him from the then-him?
I am not concerned about his fidelity, just to be clear. It's really a problem I'm having with not being able to understand his behavior then vs. his complete disownment (is that a word??) of it now. As though he were two different people entirely, Jekyll & Hyde.
I've got the good one now, but the idea that the thoughts and memories of the bad one are still in my good one's head is really troubling me.
Thoughts??
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Hi, and welcome to SR.
You wanted to know and now that you do, you don't like the truth about his past.
I learned in therapy that I was attempting to control another person by trying to somehow be in charge of, or know everything about them.
As a mother of an addict I had to learn to respect his choices and let go of what I cannot control about his using, lifestyle and especially his sobriety. I judge how he is doing today by his present attitudes and actions.
Once I learned to detach, I no longer sought out those painful secrets that would only hurt me and invade his privacy as well. With someone active in their disease it could mean snooping through their mail, emails, wallet etc... It's not my business to know those things that I have no control over.
By going to Alanon and coming here to SR, I have learned the benefits of my own recovery and accept that the only person I have any influence over is myself.
I can't seem to get my head around this idea - he didn't want to tell me, but gave in,
I learned in therapy that I was attempting to control another person by trying to somehow be in charge of, or know everything about them.
As a mother of an addict I had to learn to respect his choices and let go of what I cannot control about his using, lifestyle and especially his sobriety. I judge how he is doing today by his present attitudes and actions.
Once I learned to detach, I no longer sought out those painful secrets that would only hurt me and invade his privacy as well. With someone active in their disease it could mean snooping through their mail, emails, wallet etc... It's not my business to know those things that I have no control over.
By going to Alanon and coming here to SR, I have learned the benefits of my own recovery and accept that the only person I have any influence over is myself.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Personally, I don't feel that anyone's past should be judged. Especially if he has wiped the slate clean with a new way of living, and embracing his sobriety. My recent boyfriend that I've spoken about on here used to hang out with strippers all the time and was surrounded by sex, back when he was a coke addict. He's been drug-free for 7 years, but his alcoholism still affects him, which is why he is in treatment right now.
What matters is NOW.
You shouldn't let it bother you. Seriously.
What matters is NOW.
You shouldn't let it bother you. Seriously.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
For me, someone's behaviors and choices before I knew them is none of my business in many ways. If there truly is no risk of STDs (and I would get tested personally regardless of the time that has gone by), if there are no current issues resulting from that past behavior, I would let it go. I wasn't there, it doesn't directly concern me if it doesn't affect me directly.
I might discuss how he doesn't seem to take responsibility for his past behaviors but only in terms of my fears that this could be an issue going forward.
Having said that, if promiscuity is a behavior you find is outside what you find acceptable, if it violates your morals and values, you might want to seriously think about whether you can forgive his past behaviors and move past it. If you cannot, it is very likely to cause trouble in your relationship, whether he continues in his recovery or not.
I might discuss how he doesn't seem to take responsibility for his past behaviors but only in terms of my fears that this could be an issue going forward.
Having said that, if promiscuity is a behavior you find is outside what you find acceptable, if it violates your morals and values, you might want to seriously think about whether you can forgive his past behaviors and move past it. If you cannot, it is very likely to cause trouble in your relationship, whether he continues in his recovery or not.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
I don't think it's about judging someone's past. If I am not comfortable being with someone who's had 100 sexual partners, then that is my choice, not my judgment.
Are you comfortable with it? Can you learn to live with the knowledge you now possess?
Are you comfortable with it? Can you learn to live with the knowledge you now possess?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Thanks!
Thank you all for the welcome and the input! I couldn't figure out if/how I could respond to each person individually...so I apologize for the lump response!
I'm not upset at (having asked a question to which I got) an answer I didn't like - I just happen to believe in full disclosure between partners, so that we know each other and how each of us came to be who we are now (as well as possible). I don't have anything to hide, so when someone else seems to think/act like they do before 'fessing up it makes me a little uneasy for a while, even though whatever they're relaying doesn't concern me directly.
I guess it naturally makes me step back a little and re-think my trust level, pull back a little until I see that someone is indeed true to themselves and true to me. In this case, however, it's confusing/contradictory b/c I have never had any reason to question my bf's word, and no reason to distrust him - I still don't - and his honesty is/remains integral to his recovery.
The issue I'm having in this case is about processing the information I now have/learning to live with it - I'm having trouble understanding how a recovering alcoholic can apparently disown his alcoholic past (who he was and what he did).
If I find out that this is typical of a recovering alcoholic, I could process it better, but I'm still trying to understand if it's just my bf OR if this is a typical symptom/effect of recovery.
I am a light social drinker - I've never been drunk in my life (buzzed, yes, but not drunk), so I have never done anything under the influence of alcohol that I did not intend to/did not remember/regretted, etc., and thus I guess I don't understand the degree to which such "under the influence decisions" may or may not be my own??
I'm not out to judge my bf's past, I just feel like I need to know what he's been through in order to understand him as a whole person (I realize that not all of it is going to be good - no one's perfect). I agree that what matters (in the end) is now and from here on.
Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle - could his disowning his (alcoholic) past, separating himself into two "people" (so to speak) have more to do with him being a born again Christian recovering alcoholic than just a recovering alcoholic?
Perhaps that is it - I am not religious and not acquainted with anyone (besides my bf) who is. I don't know how many of you might have experience with recovering alcoholics who have also rediscovered religion, but maybe the religious element of this is what I need to understand in order to "get" this dual personality thing...
I'm not upset at (having asked a question to which I got) an answer I didn't like - I just happen to believe in full disclosure between partners, so that we know each other and how each of us came to be who we are now (as well as possible). I don't have anything to hide, so when someone else seems to think/act like they do before 'fessing up it makes me a little uneasy for a while, even though whatever they're relaying doesn't concern me directly.
I guess it naturally makes me step back a little and re-think my trust level, pull back a little until I see that someone is indeed true to themselves and true to me. In this case, however, it's confusing/contradictory b/c I have never had any reason to question my bf's word, and no reason to distrust him - I still don't - and his honesty is/remains integral to his recovery.
The issue I'm having in this case is about processing the information I now have/learning to live with it - I'm having trouble understanding how a recovering alcoholic can apparently disown his alcoholic past (who he was and what he did).
If I find out that this is typical of a recovering alcoholic, I could process it better, but I'm still trying to understand if it's just my bf OR if this is a typical symptom/effect of recovery.
I am a light social drinker - I've never been drunk in my life (buzzed, yes, but not drunk), so I have never done anything under the influence of alcohol that I did not intend to/did not remember/regretted, etc., and thus I guess I don't understand the degree to which such "under the influence decisions" may or may not be my own??
I'm not out to judge my bf's past, I just feel like I need to know what he's been through in order to understand him as a whole person (I realize that not all of it is going to be good - no one's perfect). I agree that what matters (in the end) is now and from here on.
Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle - could his disowning his (alcoholic) past, separating himself into two "people" (so to speak) have more to do with him being a born again Christian recovering alcoholic than just a recovering alcoholic?
Perhaps that is it - I am not religious and not acquainted with anyone (besides my bf) who is. I don't know how many of you might have experience with recovering alcoholics who have also rediscovered religion, but maybe the religious element of this is what I need to understand in order to "get" this dual personality thing...
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
When I disown my past and blame it on substance abuse, I'm not taking responsibility for my actions; I'm minimizing them and being dishonest with myself. When I don't take responsibility for my past actions, I don't learn from them and I tend to make the same mistakes over and over again.
I'd be concerned about many things:
(1) He's a recovering alcoholic
(2) He makes excuses for his past careless (and probably hurtful) behavior
(3) He's a womanizer who has shown little respect for women
(4) He has little regard for his health and emotional well being, plus the health and well being of his future partners
(5) The sum of his personality and behaviors--the Jekyll and Hyde parts--equal the whole; they can't be separated
(6) I can't know anyone well enough after only four months to claim that I love them
(7) I'm not thinking with my head when I'm hearing wedding bells after only four months
In summary, he's not prince charming; he's a toad.
I'd be concerned about many things:
(1) He's a recovering alcoholic
(2) He makes excuses for his past careless (and probably hurtful) behavior
(3) He's a womanizer who has shown little respect for women
(4) He has little regard for his health and emotional well being, plus the health and well being of his future partners
(5) The sum of his personality and behaviors--the Jekyll and Hyde parts--equal the whole; they can't be separated
(6) I can't know anyone well enough after only four months to claim that I love them
(7) I'm not thinking with my head when I'm hearing wedding bells after only four months
In summary, he's not prince charming; he's a toad.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by daphne75 
If I find out that this is typical of a recovering alcoholic, I could process it better, but I'm still trying to understand if it's just my bf OR if this is a typical symptom/effect of recovery.
Those are the questions I would be asking myself.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
There's a saying in AA that goes something like, "we will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it." It's part of what we call the "promises" of AA.
It means (to me) that we still know what we did, but can't let it eat us up forever.
How familiar are you with the 12 steps?
Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory.
Step 5 - Admitted to god, ourselves, and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Step 8 - Made a list of all those we had harmed and became ready to make amends to them all.
Step 9 - Made direct amends whenever possible except when to do so would injure them or others.
If he's involved in AA, reads the Big Book, and works the steps it's very likely that he has come to terms with most of his past, made amends with those he harmed, and is moving on with his life.
This is the way AA is supposed to work.
It means (to me) that we still know what we did, but can't let it eat us up forever.
How familiar are you with the 12 steps?
Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory.
Step 5 - Admitted to god, ourselves, and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Step 8 - Made a list of all those we had harmed and became ready to make amends to them all.
Step 9 - Made direct amends whenever possible except when to do so would injure them or others.
If he's involved in AA, reads the Big Book, and works the steps it's very likely that he has come to terms with most of his past, made amends with those he harmed, and is moving on with his life.
This is the way AA is supposed to work.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Is it possible that being with a recovering alcoholic and knowing relapse can happen at any time, his past behavior is a fear for your future?
FormerDoormat nailed it when she said “I’m not thinking with my head, when I’m hearing wedding bells after only four months.
FormerDoormat nailed it when she said “I’m not thinking with my head, when I’m hearing wedding bells after only four months.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
on my soapbox
I'm posting in this thread again because I just thought of something else to say. Well, a couple of things. Well maybe more than two.
First of all, i don't think ANYONE'S present life should be compared to how they were in their early 20's. alcohol or no alcohol. Just a for instance - let's say he was the typical frat boy/non-committal guy that all girls love to hate - I would tend to say that the majority of that stereotype were promiscuous back in their day. Not all, but it just fits the type. Especially if he didn't have a steady girlfriend during those years.
In my opinion, if he's rediscovered his faith in God, and he's committed to the straight and narrow, as long as he has no diseases, and as long as he is faithful NOW and committed to being monogamous to you, his past promiscuity shouldn't matter, not one bit.
However, if you are comparing his sexual past to YOUR sexual past, YOU have to figure out if it bothers you or not. And if it does, you may never be able to get past it. And that is definetly a problem.
Oh and one more thing:
I know of quite a few couples that only dated a short while before getting married...and guess what...they are still married today!!! So....there is no guideline for how long you have to know someone or date someone in order for a marriage to work or not. After all, the WORLD has shown us that couples who have been married for YEARS...and dated for YEARS before getting married, find out they don't even know each other, and their relationships crumble.
What it comes down to is this, and I truly believe this: If it is meant to be, it will be. But you have to work at it, no matter how long you've known each other. Relationships take love, committment, communication, compromise, dedication, and perserverence. If those factors are prevalent, then good chances the relationship will last, no matter how long you dated beforehand.
Think of all the arranged marriages - think of all the olden days marriages (little house on the prairie days) - think of all the old couples that you know that are still married today - nobody ever dated for a long time before getting married back then.
Which brings me to something else.....
Marriage vows....sickness and health.....doesn't this mean ANYTHING TO ANYONE????? Hmmm??????
First of all, i don't think ANYONE'S present life should be compared to how they were in their early 20's. alcohol or no alcohol. Just a for instance - let's say he was the typical frat boy/non-committal guy that all girls love to hate - I would tend to say that the majority of that stereotype were promiscuous back in their day. Not all, but it just fits the type. Especially if he didn't have a steady girlfriend during those years.
In my opinion, if he's rediscovered his faith in God, and he's committed to the straight and narrow, as long as he has no diseases, and as long as he is faithful NOW and committed to being monogamous to you, his past promiscuity shouldn't matter, not one bit.
However, if you are comparing his sexual past to YOUR sexual past, YOU have to figure out if it bothers you or not. And if it does, you may never be able to get past it. And that is definetly a problem.
Oh and one more thing:
I know of quite a few couples that only dated a short while before getting married...and guess what...they are still married today!!! So....there is no guideline for how long you have to know someone or date someone in order for a marriage to work or not. After all, the WORLD has shown us that couples who have been married for YEARS...and dated for YEARS before getting married, find out they don't even know each other, and their relationships crumble.
What it comes down to is this, and I truly believe this: If it is meant to be, it will be. But you have to work at it, no matter how long you've known each other. Relationships take love, committment, communication, compromise, dedication, and perserverence. If those factors are prevalent, then good chances the relationship will last, no matter how long you dated beforehand.
Think of all the arranged marriages - think of all the olden days marriages (little house on the prairie days) - think of all the old couples that you know that are still married today - nobody ever dated for a long time before getting married back then.
Which brings me to something else.....
Marriage vows....sickness and health.....doesn't this mean ANYTHING TO ANYONE????? Hmmm??????
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Little House on the Prairie was a fantasy....I like to live in the real world. There's less heartache and disappointment that way.
Who are you trying to convince that relationships that move too quickly are a good thing? Me or you?
nobody ever dated for a long time before getting married back then
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
Little House on the Prairie was a fantasy....I like to live in the real world. There's less heartache and disappointment that way.
Who are you trying to convince that relationships that move too quickly are a good thing? Me or you? I think it's the latter.
Who are you trying to convince that relationships that move too quickly are a good thing? Me or you? I think it's the latter.
I am not trying to convince myself of anything. Relationships either work or they don't. I do think that within 4 months you can truly know if you want to marry that person or not. Well it also depends on the nature of the relationship. depends on how much time you have spent with the person. depends on if you've gone thru the stages of dating or not. If you're going out on "dates" once or twice a week, no, that is not enough time. But if it was first that, then progressed and kept progressing over 4 months, then sure - it just all depends. But to say that you CAN'T love someone in 4 months? sorry, thats bull.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Let's see, who else do I know who's been in a relationship for four months and claims to be so in love? I couldn't quite put my finger on it....until you stepped up on that soapbox and began waving a flag that read "ME!"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by denny57
Oh, I thought I was in love, for sure.
triciafawn, have you ever been married? I tried to check your posts, but didn't see it mentioned.
triciafawn, have you ever been married? I tried to check your posts, but didn't see it mentioned.
My parents have been married for 49 years. My abfs parents have been married for 50 years. I know of many many of my parents friends that are still married, and have heard their stories of marrying after a short time. And my abf has told me the same stories within his parents' circle of friends.
relationships TODAY....are doomed. thats why I'm not sure if I ever want to marry again. nobody ever seems to know what vows are all about.
The way I look at it is this: One day we all get sick. Some get alziemers, some get dimentia, etc, etc......we all need to take care of our significant other....in sickness and in health....
whats WRONG with the world is people are ALL ABOUT THEMSELVES....
I'm not sure I can stay on this site for long.....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
triciafawn, I have to ask then: by your standards, why didn't you honor your vows?
Through age and recovery, I have learned nothing is black and white. The shades of grey are everywhere, and they are beautiful if I let them be.
I don't agree that today's relationships are doomed. My marriage failed. Not just because of addiction, though that certainly contributed to it. And certainly not because I didn't give it my all. I did. Guess what? So did he - he gave it all he could. What more can I ask?
Through age and recovery, I have learned nothing is black and white. The shades of grey are everywhere, and they are beautiful if I let them be.
I don't agree that today's relationships are doomed. My marriage failed. Not just because of addiction, though that certainly contributed to it. And certainly not because I didn't give it my all. I did. Guess what? So did he - he gave it all he could. What more can I ask?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by anvilhead
yes we do GET alzheimers, we do GET cancer, but we dont GET addiction.........it's not like catching a cold - it's a choice driven deliberate repeated act.........so when you talk of sickness and health, and i think you mean standing by the addict because of the vow thing - in my opinion, from my experience, that's bull pucky. why should i have to put my life on hold for YOU cuz you continue to be a dumb@ss and make poor choices and screw up your life????? that's not marriage, that's not love - that's two lives wasted.......
i have found this to be a VERY caring supportive site, that has yet to fail me............i'm sorry if you are not finding the answers you want.
i have found this to be a VERY caring supportive site, that has yet to fail me............i'm sorry if you are not finding the answers you want.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by denny57
triciafawn, I have to ask then: by your standards, why didn't you honor your vows?
Through age and recovery, I have learned nothing is black and white. The shades of grey are everywhere, and they are beautiful if I let them be.
I don't agree that today's relationships are doomed. My marriage failed. Not just because of addiction, though that certainly contributed to it. And certainly not because I didn't give it my all. I did. Guess what? So did he - he gave it all he could. What more can I ask?
Through age and recovery, I have learned nothing is black and white. The shades of grey are everywhere, and they are beautiful if I let them be.
I don't agree that today's relationships are doomed. My marriage failed. Not just because of addiction, though that certainly contributed to it. And certainly not because I didn't give it my all. I did. Guess what? So did he - he gave it all he could. What more can I ask?
denny, I beat myself in the head for leaving my marriage all the time, still years later. I should have perservered. thinking back, all these years later, there was nothing that couldn't have been overcome. nothing at all.
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