Hopeing I did the right thing
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia , US
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Hopeing I did the right thing
Hi all, well I believe I just opened a can of worms that Im wishing I had not have opened now. I told my abf that I was filing for full costudy. I had told him I was going to do this back when I was pregnant anyways. Boy did he go off. I told him that it wasnt that big a deal. That her last name would still be his and after all he is still living there at the present moment. It is just a legallity that I need to do. I told him that if he wanted to contest it then go to court. But to be prepared that I would tell the judge about his addiction. Well he got so mad that I got called every thing in the book. He said I was ruinning her life and was messing up alot of other peoples life. And of course he threaten to slap me and get physical got up in my face. I stood my ground and am vary prowd of the way I handled the situation. I tried to not ingage. I just agreed with him and went to bed. Needless to say he slept on the couch. His chioce not mine. He even had the gall to say I was the one that was messed up and brought up a past sexual abuse thing that happend to me when I was younger. That was wrong. The only thing he knows about it is what I have told him. He will never understand ... Now I did loose my cool alittle bit over that one. I think he was trying everything to get a rise and manupilate me. I do feel bad. I feel like I should nt do this becuase I dont want to hurt him. Im not trying to hurt him . I just didnt want him to be more pissed off when he got the papers from the court. Im really hurt by the things he said and called me. Why do they do that? Is his brain that messed up , where is all this rage coming from. He has done a total 180 since we got toghter . He woudl have never in the past been that nasty and hurtful to me. He is blaming is bad life on me and my family . Its all my fualt. Im such a b**** . Deep down inside I know it not but its hard to not just go with the flow and to not cause or say anything that will cause a fight.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by katiedid79 
Why do they do that? Is his brain that messed up , where is all this rage coming from.
He brings up the past to shift the blame. He brings up the future to try and add guilt into the mix. As long as you stay in the moment of today and deal with what is before you with your recovery tools... you will do ok.
Please fully understand this... his words are directed at you and are not about you (don't tell who you are). His words are just the anger inside of him bubbling out.
Strange thing... I have not used the "B" word since I stopped drinking.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 718
Whoa!!!! Katy... stop beating yourself up! I know you are in pain and I feel for you. Please remember that you are taking care of you and your baby. That is #1 in importance. You can deal rationally with an addict. He's angry... well, too bad. You are doing what is right, IMO and you need to be strong and stay in that mode.
You can do it! Look for support, keep coming back here and praise yourself for taking care of you and being a good Mom.
You can do it! Look for support, keep coming back here and praise yourself for taking care of you and being a good Mom.
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 540
Katy please try to ignore the things he said to you. The truth is he is angry with himself. They will say anything to get a rise out of you. Sounds like he was grasping at straws trying to upset you. You should be very proud of yourself for what you have done. You should tell the judge about his addiction. As for sole custody at this point you have no other choice then to do so. You are being a good mother. (((((hugs)))))
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia , US
Posts: 98
Thanks for all of the responces I really appretiate you alls feedback and support.
I spoke with him earleir and told him that I did not like how he acted last night. That I was just trying to talk to him like an adult and didnt appretiate him not being an adult back. He misunderstood me and thought that I had already filed for custody. Of course this is not an excuse for the way I was treated and the way he acted. He wants me to give him until the date that I set June 27 in my letter to either seek help or leave if he was still doing his doc. He siad that if he keeps screwing up that he understands and feels that I have every right to do this. He siad he is trying to get better and that it is a daily battle. He siad that it dostn help when I, as he puts it starts fights and trys to control the situation. I told him that the addiction, to use or not to use was his problem and just becase we get into a fight dosnt give him the excuse to backslide. Its his desicion to use. He told me that he was sorry for not being there when I needed him and that he took money from and used it for his addiction. He siad that he appreatiated me being there for him and supporting him threw the addiction and trying to get him to go down the right path. You know I beleive him but part of me still gets the sense that I backed him in a corner and he is manupilating me. Have any of you ever heard this before?
The one part that did kinda of scare me was when he said that he would get to the point were he would quit ,be clean and then try to straighten up and then backslide and this would happen over and over agian. That would be addiction. I told him that maybe he should get in a group or find some support . He siad he didnt need that. I still think I will get him some litiature from nar - anon.
Kinda confused at the moment. Owell ..............
I spoke with him earleir and told him that I did not like how he acted last night. That I was just trying to talk to him like an adult and didnt appretiate him not being an adult back. He misunderstood me and thought that I had already filed for custody. Of course this is not an excuse for the way I was treated and the way he acted. He wants me to give him until the date that I set June 27 in my letter to either seek help or leave if he was still doing his doc. He siad that if he keeps screwing up that he understands and feels that I have every right to do this. He siad he is trying to get better and that it is a daily battle. He siad that it dostn help when I, as he puts it starts fights and trys to control the situation. I told him that the addiction, to use or not to use was his problem and just becase we get into a fight dosnt give him the excuse to backslide. Its his desicion to use. He told me that he was sorry for not being there when I needed him and that he took money from and used it for his addiction. He siad that he appreatiated me being there for him and supporting him threw the addiction and trying to get him to go down the right path. You know I beleive him but part of me still gets the sense that I backed him in a corner and he is manupilating me. Have any of you ever heard this before?
The one part that did kinda of scare me was when he said that he would get to the point were he would quit ,be clean and then try to straighten up and then backslide and this would happen over and over agian. That would be addiction. I told him that maybe he should get in a group or find some support . He siad he didnt need that. I still think I will get him some litiature from nar - anon.
Kinda confused at the moment. Owell ..............
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by katiedid79
You know I beleive him but part of me still gets the sense that I backed him in a corner and he is manupilating me. Have any of you ever heard this before?
Actions are they only thing that speak the truth. If my lips were moving, I was lieing.
Proof of his denial is here...
I told him that maybe he should get in a group or find some support . He said he didnt need that.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
You gave him a deadline and unless something drastic happens between now and then, there's no need to discuss it again with him. He is not rational and you can't reason with someone like that.
It takes two to fight so take a deep breath and save your energy for your day to day existence
It takes two to fight so take a deep breath and save your energy for your day to day existence
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: To the North
Posts: 1,086
(((Katie)))
When I read your last post - he said he thought you had already done whatever, and then on to the other thing, etc. It's so much easier to SEE when it's someone else, but I have heard these things so many times from my AH, different reasons, but it's the pattern that I finally am seeing more and more. There's always a "reason" - he was going to, he thought whatever, he would have, etc. Well, quit your quacking and actually DO something!
If you feel confused - chances are you're being manipulated and/or lied to. My therapist told me this, as did a few other members on this board - and you know, it's a perfect formula - confusion = untruth for me. It's a gut reaction I can recognize quickly.
Keep taking care of you and your little one! You really are doing great work on yourself and it shows!
When I read your last post - he said he thought you had already done whatever, and then on to the other thing, etc. It's so much easier to SEE when it's someone else, but I have heard these things so many times from my AH, different reasons, but it's the pattern that I finally am seeing more and more. There's always a "reason" - he was going to, he thought whatever, he would have, etc. Well, quit your quacking and actually DO something!
If you feel confused - chances are you're being manipulated and/or lied to. My therapist told me this, as did a few other members on this board - and you know, it's a perfect formula - confusion = untruth for me. It's a gut reaction I can recognize quickly.
Keep taking care of you and your little one! You really are doing great work on yourself and it shows!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Virginia , US
Posts: 98
You guys are absolutly right.
Im not pregnant or at least I hope not. I ment back when I was pregnant I was going to somtime after the baby was born which she is almost 6 months now , I told him that I had planned on filing for custody anyways.
Still threating violance is still wrong no matter if you are or not... Im not that worried about that , I can handle my own. Plus like I told him go ahead and hit me then Ill call the cops and they will throw your butt in jail. That is something I will not put up with . That has alwasy been a major boundry for me.
I set the date of June 27th. I hope that he chooses to get clean. So I guess basically that if I still keep seeing this pattern , And money starts dissapearing (not from my account mind you ) , and I still keep seeing the same actions. Then on June 27th we are going to sit down and reavulate, regardless if there is an improvment or not, the relationship. Problem is if he is still in active addiction how in the heck do I get him to leave? He has agreed to what I wrote . I dont plan on leaving. Im just trying to figure out a plan ... I will then file for full custody. He has also agreed to take a drug test if I ask him to . Which I told him if he refuses one that is the same thing as failing it . Of course I will not tell him when I plan to do this. I do know that hydros I think are out in 24-48 hours somtime less then 8 . Still reaserching this stuff.
Im not pregnant or at least I hope not. I ment back when I was pregnant I was going to somtime after the baby was born which she is almost 6 months now , I told him that I had planned on filing for custody anyways.
Still threating violance is still wrong no matter if you are or not... Im not that worried about that , I can handle my own. Plus like I told him go ahead and hit me then Ill call the cops and they will throw your butt in jail. That is something I will not put up with . That has alwasy been a major boundry for me.
I set the date of June 27th. I hope that he chooses to get clean. So I guess basically that if I still keep seeing this pattern , And money starts dissapearing (not from my account mind you ) , and I still keep seeing the same actions. Then on June 27th we are going to sit down and reavulate, regardless if there is an improvment or not, the relationship. Problem is if he is still in active addiction how in the heck do I get him to leave? He has agreed to what I wrote . I dont plan on leaving. Im just trying to figure out a plan ... I will then file for full custody. He has also agreed to take a drug test if I ask him to . Which I told him if he refuses one that is the same thing as failing it . Of course I will not tell him when I plan to do this. I do know that hydros I think are out in 24-48 hours somtime less then 8 . Still reaserching this stuff.
'Round and 'Round I Go....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 478
Yup...I gave a deadline too. He had two or three months from the date I gave him and he used every single day and even after. But half way through I had backed out of it too. Too bad, so sad....my intention with the date was one part control (and we all know we can not control the addict - I own up to what was my own insanity) and the other part to give him a chance to get well not a chance to further put my life through he**. It seemed like once I put a time clock on him finding recovery his use got worse everyday. It was because he felt in his addict mind that he now had the freedom to use as often and as much as he wanted for the time being. We have been divorced for 10 months now and we lived apart for about a year before the divorce went through. (Wow! Time has certainly flew!) He had some clean and recovery time in between but is back to using after 8 months of recovery. There are no guarantees to sobriety. Yes it is a daily battle but it has to be battled so if he is using then where is the battle? When an addict whole heartedly battles addiction and fights for recovery you would be able to see it. They make committments to living their life in recovery. They don't live in denial of what is needed.
I feel your pain. I don't have children with my exhusband so I had only myself to fight for...you have a baby on the way who can not fight for him/herself so there should be no guilt in fighting for both of your lives.
I feel your pain. I don't have children with my exhusband so I had only myself to fight for...you have a baby on the way who can not fight for him/herself so there should be no guilt in fighting for both of your lives.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
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(((Katie)))
If you want to give him until June 27th, that's your choice. Just remember, though, you can change that any time you want to! It doesn't sound like he's really interested in getting cleaned up to me, and I'm a recovering crack addict.
Keep the focus on what's best for you and your daughter. Nothing you do will make him keep using or get clean...this I can promise you. He is manipulating you, throwing the past sexual abuse in your face to get the focus off of him and what he's doing.
Take care of you and your daughter. He's a big boy, and can take care of himself.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
If you want to give him until June 27th, that's your choice. Just remember, though, you can change that any time you want to! It doesn't sound like he's really interested in getting cleaned up to me, and I'm a recovering crack addict.
Keep the focus on what's best for you and your daughter. Nothing you do will make him keep using or get clean...this I can promise you. He is manipulating you, throwing the past sexual abuse in your face to get the focus off of him and what he's doing.
Take care of you and your daughter. He's a big boy, and can take care of himself.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Impurrfect
If you want to give him until June 27th, that's your choice. Just remember, though, you can change that any time you want to!
If the objective is to maintain the status quo until the date, then it means not discussing it or taking action until then. But if you find you can't do that, you have to do what's right for you.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Posts: 98
Unfortantly his name is on the deed as well as mine. so that adds another element. You are right abuse is abuse and no one should stand for it.
He is supposed to be quiting before the date. Thats just the date I set to look at the whole situation and see if it is getting better or worse. If nothing has changed by that date then I will take further action.
Thats what keeps bothering me about him being addicted and not staying clean. Nothing is changing. He says he is not that bad, but when you go threw withdrawel and keep the using pattern up ... Somthings got to give.
He says he is getting better he says that he is no longer taking money from my account , thats becase I stopped enableing him not because he made the decision on his own. He says he is not borowing money and he could if he wanted to use. One problem with that is he can get it for free if need be. He is even said he could go to the docter and get a script for the meds if he wanted to . Which Im sure he problaby could. But he has not so thats his rational for its not that bad. To me any form no matter if he is stealing stuff or not is just as bad as the other. Yes it could be worse. But if you are an addict then your still hurting yoursefl and people around you.
I guess time will tell. I got him some info on the suboxen in the mail for him to read. He thanked me for it and siad that he was interested in learning more about it. But he also said he didnt have the intentions on going that route. So to me he still in a or seems like he is in denial.
He is supposed to be quiting before the date. Thats just the date I set to look at the whole situation and see if it is getting better or worse. If nothing has changed by that date then I will take further action.
Thats what keeps bothering me about him being addicted and not staying clean. Nothing is changing. He says he is not that bad, but when you go threw withdrawel and keep the using pattern up ... Somthings got to give.
He says he is getting better he says that he is no longer taking money from my account , thats becase I stopped enableing him not because he made the decision on his own. He says he is not borowing money and he could if he wanted to use. One problem with that is he can get it for free if need be. He is even said he could go to the docter and get a script for the meds if he wanted to . Which Im sure he problaby could. But he has not so thats his rational for its not that bad. To me any form no matter if he is stealing stuff or not is just as bad as the other. Yes it could be worse. But if you are an addict then your still hurting yoursefl and people around you.
I guess time will tell. I got him some info on the suboxen in the mail for him to read. He thanked me for it and siad that he was interested in learning more about it. But he also said he didnt have the intentions on going that route. So to me he still in a or seems like he is in denial.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Katie)))
It sounds like he is just quacking...saying what you want to hear (sometimes) and not DOING anything toward recovery.
An addict's favorite response is "I can quit any time I want to, I just don't want to right now"..I used it myself more than a few times. When I finally decided that I'd had enough of using, I was ready to do whatever it takes.
I don't know about his name being on the deed, but several people here have been through it.
Please, just keep yourself safe, even if that means taking your daughter and getting out if he gets nasty. Keep the focus on what's best for you and your daughter. If you decide, before June 27th that you've had enough, that is your right!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
It sounds like he is just quacking...saying what you want to hear (sometimes) and not DOING anything toward recovery.
An addict's favorite response is "I can quit any time I want to, I just don't want to right now"..I used it myself more than a few times. When I finally decided that I'd had enough of using, I was ready to do whatever it takes.
I don't know about his name being on the deed, but several people here have been through it.
Please, just keep yourself safe, even if that means taking your daughter and getting out if he gets nasty. Keep the focus on what's best for you and your daughter. If you decide, before June 27th that you've had enough, that is your right!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 38
The fact that he used the "I'm going to file for custody/I did file for custody" as an excuse to get near physically abusive and use your past pain against you speaks volumes!!!! I'm sorry but it sounds like manipulation to me. When they can justify any action and somehow make you question yourself is manipluation!!!I know you say you can handle yourself, but a 6mnth old cannot. I hope you do what is in your heart and best for you!!
Take Care.
Take Care.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
I thought long and hard before posting this...
I'm "mom". Katydid's mom. She asked me to come and read some posts and read her posts. I found myself writing, in an email, my thoughts as they came up while reading her posts....and rereading her posts.
I've lived with more than one addict. Alcohol and drugs. You all are right on the money, especially you, Anvil. I do appreciate your bluntness cause there's really no other way to be in this situation.
I'm glad Katy was finally able to talk about the elephant in the room. Things in her and and AB's relationship has been going south for some time and I saw it long before she said anything. I knew what it was due to as well but until she felt comfortable talking to me about it I couldn't and wouldn't say anything. She has enough problems without mom in it when she wasn't ready for me to be in it.
Anyway, I'd like to post the thoughts I had...it might help someone else too. And this is going to be a long one.
So please bear with me.
1.) He's going to get clean with or without you there, or stay on the drugs - with or without you there. You're still stuck in the mindset of this having *anything* to do with you. Sadly, it doesn't.
2.) When you talk about that feeling of wanting to leave and go and bust his ass....I know that feeling *very* well. What it came down to for me was knowing that I *knew* he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. And catching him in the act so to speak was going to do what?? You're still looking for excuses to stay, to fight for a relationship that was lost some time ago. And that doesn't make you stupid or blind or anything else. That makes you human and a non-addict. It's difficult to figure out the addictive mind. He is no longer the person you fell in love with and trusted for all this time. That doesn't make *you* any less a person. *You* haven't done *anything* wrong. It makes you as much a victim of his addiction as he is. And whether or not you see this as a choice he can make or an illness, that part really isn't important to the day to day living and what the addiction is doing to *all* of you. You are all victims of the addiction. And the one that's going to suffer the most the longer you stay is your daughter.
This is one of those situations that later on down the road you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. You have to decide which is going to cause the least amount of damage to your daughter in the future: Growing up in a household with an addict for a father? Someone who isn't available to her in any way that matters? As well as teaching her *what* about life? Or....splitting up and raising your daughter without a father and all the emotional stuff that can engender... Do you see it? Either way....she really doesn't have a father. He's not available to her in either situation. No matter what you want him to be to her and for her...that's another thing you cannot control. When she gets older, either way, you're going to catch hell from her. :-) It's the lot of being a parent. The child always knows what you could have done better. But they weren't there dealing with it and trying to make decisions. One day, when she gets older she'll see that you did the best you could and made the best of a bad situtation. You made the best decision for *her* which is what our jobs as parents *is*.
3.) And as I've told you many times, "Show me, don't tell me." Talking about it is just air. If he's going to do it (really wants to do it) he would do *anything* necessary to stop including going to detox and rehab. If you were at all important to his life right now he'd do it. All that matters to him is the drugs. You aren't even in the picture.
4.) Quick fix? No...you're looking for a *fix* period. But this isn't something *you* can fix at all, quick or otherwise. This plays to your control issues. (Being as Katy has already mentioned the sexual abuse I don't feel I'm breaking any confidences in saying that due to that abuse she does have issues about control.)
5.) What you're not seeing yet, is that he left you a long time ago. You don't figure in his life at all. Not on any real level. You have as much control in this situation as a stranger on the street does. Which is none at all. Again, the control thing. That's what's keeping you in this. You're fighting to control what you can't control.
Something you have to consider also...is even if he does quit....you're living with a person who will always be in recovery. There is no cure. And that next pill is only as far away as he wants it to be even after years of not using. As painful as this is you must realise that in some respects you've lost him, period. He could be dead for all the distinction this makes. Do you want to live your life like that? Always waiting for him to relapse? Because I know you...and that's what you'll be living. I don't think you'll ever be able to trust him again. Trust is a major issue for you (again, the result of the abuse). You know this. I don't have to tell you this. You have to balance what you know about yourself with the reality of living with an addict....cause he'll always be an addict no matter if he stops using or not. You have to know what you *can* live with and what you absolutely *cannot* live with.
6.) As for the custody issue, it's a lawyer that told me about filing for custody. If no one has legal custody of your daughter anyone can take her and then file for custody. In theory that is. But that's what the lawyer was trying to get me to understand. I needed to protect you kids before it became an issue. Even though Bob was not you all's father he could still file for custody of all of you. That would be unnecessary trauma for you kids. When someone is pissed off and hurting and looking to get back at you you have to cover your ass in every and any way you can think of. Add to that irrationality of behavior the irrationality of behavior from an addict and you're playing with dynamite.
7.) You're still expecting him to act, react, and respond as the man you knew, as the man you thought you knew. And he's *not*. He's not that man anymore and in that case you don't know him *at* all. And you don't know and can't predict what he'll do or not do in *any* situation.
As far as the law in this situation, and please, *please* talk to a lawyer - don't just take my word for it - you don't have any way of getting him out of the house peacefully. His name is on the deed and by law he's entitled to be there. They can't and won't remove him. The only way to keep him out of the house is to go and file for a protective order or have him busted. For the protective order you're going to have to give reasons, real and concrete reasons, why you fear for your safety and that of your daughter. No matter what the cops might think and feel they still have to follow the letter of the law. And because you aren't married the property you share comes under business property laws, a business partnership (this applies in Virginia). In this situation you could possibly buy him out if he needs money bad enough. Yes, I understand that you've made all the payments. The law doesn't care or see it that way. As a partnership (business partnership) it doesn't matter who paid what. This is the exact same situation I was in and you can blame it on the different localities but the law is the law and they still have to follow it.
If you think he'll do what is best for your daughter you're missing the point by a mile and you really *don't* get it: He doesn't give a rats ass about you *or* the baby. All he cares about is the drugs. He's not capable of anything else.
Don't know how long a post can be here so I'll continue this...
I've lived with more than one addict. Alcohol and drugs. You all are right on the money, especially you, Anvil. I do appreciate your bluntness cause there's really no other way to be in this situation.
I'm glad Katy was finally able to talk about the elephant in the room. Things in her and and AB's relationship has been going south for some time and I saw it long before she said anything. I knew what it was due to as well but until she felt comfortable talking to me about it I couldn't and wouldn't say anything. She has enough problems without mom in it when she wasn't ready for me to be in it.
Anyway, I'd like to post the thoughts I had...it might help someone else too. And this is going to be a long one.
So please bear with me. 1.) He's going to get clean with or without you there, or stay on the drugs - with or without you there. You're still stuck in the mindset of this having *anything* to do with you. Sadly, it doesn't.
2.) When you talk about that feeling of wanting to leave and go and bust his ass....I know that feeling *very* well. What it came down to for me was knowing that I *knew* he was doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing. And catching him in the act so to speak was going to do what?? You're still looking for excuses to stay, to fight for a relationship that was lost some time ago. And that doesn't make you stupid or blind or anything else. That makes you human and a non-addict. It's difficult to figure out the addictive mind. He is no longer the person you fell in love with and trusted for all this time. That doesn't make *you* any less a person. *You* haven't done *anything* wrong. It makes you as much a victim of his addiction as he is. And whether or not you see this as a choice he can make or an illness, that part really isn't important to the day to day living and what the addiction is doing to *all* of you. You are all victims of the addiction. And the one that's going to suffer the most the longer you stay is your daughter.
This is one of those situations that later on down the road you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. You have to decide which is going to cause the least amount of damage to your daughter in the future: Growing up in a household with an addict for a father? Someone who isn't available to her in any way that matters? As well as teaching her *what* about life? Or....splitting up and raising your daughter without a father and all the emotional stuff that can engender... Do you see it? Either way....she really doesn't have a father. He's not available to her in either situation. No matter what you want him to be to her and for her...that's another thing you cannot control. When she gets older, either way, you're going to catch hell from her. :-) It's the lot of being a parent. The child always knows what you could have done better. But they weren't there dealing with it and trying to make decisions. One day, when she gets older she'll see that you did the best you could and made the best of a bad situtation. You made the best decision for *her* which is what our jobs as parents *is*.
3.) And as I've told you many times, "Show me, don't tell me." Talking about it is just air. If he's going to do it (really wants to do it) he would do *anything* necessary to stop including going to detox and rehab. If you were at all important to his life right now he'd do it. All that matters to him is the drugs. You aren't even in the picture.
4.) Quick fix? No...you're looking for a *fix* period. But this isn't something *you* can fix at all, quick or otherwise. This plays to your control issues. (Being as Katy has already mentioned the sexual abuse I don't feel I'm breaking any confidences in saying that due to that abuse she does have issues about control.)
5.) What you're not seeing yet, is that he left you a long time ago. You don't figure in his life at all. Not on any real level. You have as much control in this situation as a stranger on the street does. Which is none at all. Again, the control thing. That's what's keeping you in this. You're fighting to control what you can't control.
Something you have to consider also...is even if he does quit....you're living with a person who will always be in recovery. There is no cure. And that next pill is only as far away as he wants it to be even after years of not using. As painful as this is you must realise that in some respects you've lost him, period. He could be dead for all the distinction this makes. Do you want to live your life like that? Always waiting for him to relapse? Because I know you...and that's what you'll be living. I don't think you'll ever be able to trust him again. Trust is a major issue for you (again, the result of the abuse). You know this. I don't have to tell you this. You have to balance what you know about yourself with the reality of living with an addict....cause he'll always be an addict no matter if he stops using or not. You have to know what you *can* live with and what you absolutely *cannot* live with.
6.) As for the custody issue, it's a lawyer that told me about filing for custody. If no one has legal custody of your daughter anyone can take her and then file for custody. In theory that is. But that's what the lawyer was trying to get me to understand. I needed to protect you kids before it became an issue. Even though Bob was not you all's father he could still file for custody of all of you. That would be unnecessary trauma for you kids. When someone is pissed off and hurting and looking to get back at you you have to cover your ass in every and any way you can think of. Add to that irrationality of behavior the irrationality of behavior from an addict and you're playing with dynamite.
7.) You're still expecting him to act, react, and respond as the man you knew, as the man you thought you knew. And he's *not*. He's not that man anymore and in that case you don't know him *at* all. And you don't know and can't predict what he'll do or not do in *any* situation.
As far as the law in this situation, and please, *please* talk to a lawyer - don't just take my word for it - you don't have any way of getting him out of the house peacefully. His name is on the deed and by law he's entitled to be there. They can't and won't remove him. The only way to keep him out of the house is to go and file for a protective order or have him busted. For the protective order you're going to have to give reasons, real and concrete reasons, why you fear for your safety and that of your daughter. No matter what the cops might think and feel they still have to follow the letter of the law. And because you aren't married the property you share comes under business property laws, a business partnership (this applies in Virginia). In this situation you could possibly buy him out if he needs money bad enough. Yes, I understand that you've made all the payments. The law doesn't care or see it that way. As a partnership (business partnership) it doesn't matter who paid what. This is the exact same situation I was in and you can blame it on the different localities but the law is the law and they still have to follow it.
If you think he'll do what is best for your daughter you're missing the point by a mile and you really *don't* get it: He doesn't give a rats ass about you *or* the baby. All he cares about is the drugs. He's not capable of anything else.
Don't know how long a post can be here so I'll continue this...
Last edited by jarrett622; 04-13-2008 at 11:23 PM.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Cont.
8.) You posted: You are absoulty right about that. What else can I do? Whats the best approach? I cant just leave. Where am I gonna go . Its not fair that I should have to leave Im being responsiable hes not.
You're being responsible because you're *not* an addict. He's not being responsible because he is. You can't expect him to function from the same ground you're standing on. And no, life *ain't* fair. If it was I'd still be on my mountain.
9.) The boundaries you set are not set with the aim of controlling his behavior. The boundaries are set to give you some sanity and control of your *own* life. If you're setting a boundary such as you can't use this many days a week who's behavior and life is that controlling? Not yours. He's going to use when he wants to and you can't control that.
The things that you *can* control:
* Having sex with someone you think could give you a potentially deadly disease or any STD at all. Insist that he be tested and use a condom or abstain altogether, condom or not. If he refuses to go the health dept and go through the battery of tests (he needs tested for every possible STD) then forget sex.
* Who spends *your* money and what it gets spent on. Don't let him use your card at all anymore. If he needs gas and smokes that's his problem. This means you're going to have to buy your own smokes and no longer depend on him to do it. If you feel you must support him for gas and smokes than give him so much cash per week, period, and no more. When that's gone he's out of luck. You can't control what he spends money on. You haven't been able to for a long time. But you can control what he spends of *your* money.
* Hygiene. You can't force him to bathe. He's not a 2 yr old. You can, however, choose not to have him in your bed or physically any closer than necessary. That's *your* boundary. You don't have to sleep with a nasty, dirty, stinky person. But you can't make him bathe...that's *his* boundary.
* Drugs in your home. You have the right as does your daughter to live in a drug free environment. How to enforce this boundary? Think long and hard about this one. Cause if he chooses to ignore this boundary the only option left is to call the cops. That's *if* you enforce this boundary. What I'm saying is this: You cannot *threaten* to call the cops. If you issue this ultimatum be prepared to follow through on it. And make sure he understands that you *will* do it. As it seems now he's still ignoring this boundary. Also, keep this in mind: When your daughter begins crawling/walking and this issue is still not resolved and as you've stated there are pieces of pills left in places they shouldn't be, especially with a baby in the house, if she should ingest a drug you'll be held just as accountable as he. After all, you won't be able to claim that you didn't know about his addiction or him leaving pills laying around. His brain is so fried he probably doesn't even realise he's left half a pill sitting anywhere. You're asking him to take responsibility for something he's not able to be responsible for. And in doing so the baby could end up getting hurt. The funny thing about this is they won't hold him as accountable as they will you. *Because* he's an addict. You're not and they expect much more from you. *rolling eyes*
These are some examples of boundaries, things *you* can control. Getting him to do his chores and such is not. Getting him to quit using is not.
One thing I cannot stress enough is that when you set these boundaries and begin sticking to them things are going to get worse than they currently are. The verbal and emotional abuse will escalate and he may become physically violent. Again, I can't stress this enough. Don't sit there and say he won't do this or he'd never do that, you never thought he'd become addicted to drugs the way he is either. Trust me, he's dangerous. You already know he's out of control. If he wasn't he wouldn't be an addict. There's a saying, "Dead is dead, it doesn't matter how they got that way." You can't be any more dead than dead. There are no degrees of dead. If you push him into a corner he will fight back. Doesn't matter whether or not you think you've backed him into a corner or not....at that point the only point of view that will be important is how he feels and what he does in reaction.
9.) The issue with the cell phone. Do you realise he basically prostituted himself to get that phone back? And you didn't play along? So what else is he or has he prostituted himself for? That would scare the hell outta *me*.
10.) Examples of manipulation: We have not been intimate for over a month and all he can do is say who wants to be intimate with someone who acts like I do. He's trying to turn this around on you. Make you doubt your own feelings and instincts. He's trying to shift the focus off of him and onto you. Like saying it's your fault he's an addict. Riiiight. Like you held him down and shoved those pills down his throat.
Another thing that does bother me is if he is such and addict then how can he still come home and cook dinner that kind of thing. Load the dishwasher ect... He keeps saying I cleaned the house so I should excuse him from this blah blah blah. Tit for tat. He's going through the motions of normalcy. You're thinking of the addicts they always scared you with on TV. The total, non-functioning addicts. He's a functioning addict to a degree. But all he's doing is going through the motions trying to get you off his back. He's trying to guilt you and make you believe there *is* no problem.
All thow I dont know how he is going to pay for it. (regarding the CellPhone) Bingo! It's not your problem. He's trying to manipulate you..."I need my phone...how can I work without my phone? How will I get jobs?" and on and on. He's trying to make you feel responsible for his wellbeing, physically, mentally, and emotionally as well as financially.
He wanted his cell phone I told him when he pays the 50$ half of the bill then I will give it to him. So we went round and round. I tried to stick to the "give me 50$ and I will give you the phone back" without going to far off the path.
You let him drag you into a confrontation and an argument as well as a compromise. But the only person the compromise is benefiting is him. That's not what the word compromise means. ;-) Don't argue with him anymore. Don't let him attempt to "reason" with you. Can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. That works two ways: You aren't armed with the motivations he is and he no longer cares (isn't capable of caring) what your motivations are. When you set a boundary, that's the entire point, there is no compromise from that point on. You've already offered a compromise. Doesn't matter if he sees it that way or not. Reality is the furthest thing from his mind. Do you see that you're trying to reason with someone that is beyond being reasoned with? That his mind and brain are long gone? Elvis has *left* the building.
To be cont.
You're being responsible because you're *not* an addict. He's not being responsible because he is. You can't expect him to function from the same ground you're standing on. And no, life *ain't* fair. If it was I'd still be on my mountain.
9.) The boundaries you set are not set with the aim of controlling his behavior. The boundaries are set to give you some sanity and control of your *own* life. If you're setting a boundary such as you can't use this many days a week who's behavior and life is that controlling? Not yours. He's going to use when he wants to and you can't control that.
The things that you *can* control:
* Having sex with someone you think could give you a potentially deadly disease or any STD at all. Insist that he be tested and use a condom or abstain altogether, condom or not. If he refuses to go the health dept and go through the battery of tests (he needs tested for every possible STD) then forget sex.
* Who spends *your* money and what it gets spent on. Don't let him use your card at all anymore. If he needs gas and smokes that's his problem. This means you're going to have to buy your own smokes and no longer depend on him to do it. If you feel you must support him for gas and smokes than give him so much cash per week, period, and no more. When that's gone he's out of luck. You can't control what he spends money on. You haven't been able to for a long time. But you can control what he spends of *your* money.
* Hygiene. You can't force him to bathe. He's not a 2 yr old. You can, however, choose not to have him in your bed or physically any closer than necessary. That's *your* boundary. You don't have to sleep with a nasty, dirty, stinky person. But you can't make him bathe...that's *his* boundary.
* Drugs in your home. You have the right as does your daughter to live in a drug free environment. How to enforce this boundary? Think long and hard about this one. Cause if he chooses to ignore this boundary the only option left is to call the cops. That's *if* you enforce this boundary. What I'm saying is this: You cannot *threaten* to call the cops. If you issue this ultimatum be prepared to follow through on it. And make sure he understands that you *will* do it. As it seems now he's still ignoring this boundary. Also, keep this in mind: When your daughter begins crawling/walking and this issue is still not resolved and as you've stated there are pieces of pills left in places they shouldn't be, especially with a baby in the house, if she should ingest a drug you'll be held just as accountable as he. After all, you won't be able to claim that you didn't know about his addiction or him leaving pills laying around. His brain is so fried he probably doesn't even realise he's left half a pill sitting anywhere. You're asking him to take responsibility for something he's not able to be responsible for. And in doing so the baby could end up getting hurt. The funny thing about this is they won't hold him as accountable as they will you. *Because* he's an addict. You're not and they expect much more from you. *rolling eyes*
These are some examples of boundaries, things *you* can control. Getting him to do his chores and such is not. Getting him to quit using is not.
One thing I cannot stress enough is that when you set these boundaries and begin sticking to them things are going to get worse than they currently are. The verbal and emotional abuse will escalate and he may become physically violent. Again, I can't stress this enough. Don't sit there and say he won't do this or he'd never do that, you never thought he'd become addicted to drugs the way he is either. Trust me, he's dangerous. You already know he's out of control. If he wasn't he wouldn't be an addict. There's a saying, "Dead is dead, it doesn't matter how they got that way." You can't be any more dead than dead. There are no degrees of dead. If you push him into a corner he will fight back. Doesn't matter whether or not you think you've backed him into a corner or not....at that point the only point of view that will be important is how he feels and what he does in reaction.
9.) The issue with the cell phone. Do you realise he basically prostituted himself to get that phone back? And you didn't play along? So what else is he or has he prostituted himself for? That would scare the hell outta *me*.
10.) Examples of manipulation: We have not been intimate for over a month and all he can do is say who wants to be intimate with someone who acts like I do. He's trying to turn this around on you. Make you doubt your own feelings and instincts. He's trying to shift the focus off of him and onto you. Like saying it's your fault he's an addict. Riiiight. Like you held him down and shoved those pills down his throat.
Another thing that does bother me is if he is such and addict then how can he still come home and cook dinner that kind of thing. Load the dishwasher ect... He keeps saying I cleaned the house so I should excuse him from this blah blah blah. Tit for tat. He's going through the motions of normalcy. You're thinking of the addicts they always scared you with on TV. The total, non-functioning addicts. He's a functioning addict to a degree. But all he's doing is going through the motions trying to get you off his back. He's trying to guilt you and make you believe there *is* no problem.
All thow I dont know how he is going to pay for it. (regarding the CellPhone) Bingo! It's not your problem. He's trying to manipulate you..."I need my phone...how can I work without my phone? How will I get jobs?" and on and on. He's trying to make you feel responsible for his wellbeing, physically, mentally, and emotionally as well as financially.
He wanted his cell phone I told him when he pays the 50$ half of the bill then I will give it to him. So we went round and round. I tried to stick to the "give me 50$ and I will give you the phone back" without going to far off the path.
You let him drag you into a confrontation and an argument as well as a compromise. But the only person the compromise is benefiting is him. That's not what the word compromise means. ;-) Don't argue with him anymore. Don't let him attempt to "reason" with you. Can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. That works two ways: You aren't armed with the motivations he is and he no longer cares (isn't capable of caring) what your motivations are. When you set a boundary, that's the entire point, there is no compromise from that point on. You've already offered a compromise. Doesn't matter if he sees it that way or not. Reality is the furthest thing from his mind. Do you see that you're trying to reason with someone that is beyond being reasoned with? That his mind and brain are long gone? Elvis has *left* the building.
To be cont.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 17
Cont.
11.) You're caught up in the details. The little things and you're also very hurt, angry and resentful. That's why you can't see what's truly setting a reasonable boundary and what's getting back at him or trying to control him.
12.) You're still operating from the perspective of having a relationship, from the past relationship. You no longer have a relationship with him.
To him the drugs are more important than his relationship with you. The drugs are his current relationship.
13.) As far as setting a date....good intentions and all that. But again, you're dealing from a place of sanity and rationality and he isn't. The date doesn't mean diddly squat to him. He'll get to that date and say now I'm going to quit for sure. ********. IMO, you're wasting your time but you'll do what you think is the right way to do this. And as you've said, you're in it and as such you see things and sides of this I can't.
In the meantime you need to be preparing for the worst. Get some legal advice. That's number 1. I think when you do you'll be able to see your path much more clearly. The things you need to do now to protect you and the baby later. Practical steps you can take while you're waiting out the deadline time. And if he is able to quit you haven't lost anything. No harm, no foul. See the comment I left on your profile page too. And Anvil is right...with the deadline all you've done is consented to him using. In other words, leave or have him leave first and then see if he gets clean. You'll still have no more control then than you do now about his using. But you won't be in the middle of it any longer. The bottom line is you can't make him stop using anymore than you made him begin using to start with.
14.) At this point you're grieving as well as discovering exactly how deeply trapped in this you are and how bad the situation really is. Grieving the loss of the man you knew, the man you want back. You're also grieving the loss of what might have been. You're coming to grips with the idea that the life you had so neatly planned out is burning down around you and *he* is the one burning it down. BTDT. You *can* control just how much of your life you allow him to destroy though.
Grief and grieving is a whole other area you have to deal with in addition to the anger, resentment, feelings of betrayal....there are so many emotions you have to deal with right now. And it's ok to feel all of these. I'd be more worried if you *weren't* feeling these things. But look at the bright side of this, if I could survive what I did you'll survive too. You are a survivor. You're very strong. And you know you have a good strong support system whenever you need us.
If you want me to come stay for a bit I'll do it...in a heartbeat. You know I will. I'd do it just to see the look on his face!
You'll do what you need to you do. I have faith in that. After all, you get your smarts from *somewhere* and we both know your dad... :rof
12.) You're still operating from the perspective of having a relationship, from the past relationship. You no longer have a relationship with him.
To him the drugs are more important than his relationship with you. The drugs are his current relationship.
13.) As far as setting a date....good intentions and all that. But again, you're dealing from a place of sanity and rationality and he isn't. The date doesn't mean diddly squat to him. He'll get to that date and say now I'm going to quit for sure. ********. IMO, you're wasting your time but you'll do what you think is the right way to do this. And as you've said, you're in it and as such you see things and sides of this I can't.
In the meantime you need to be preparing for the worst. Get some legal advice. That's number 1. I think when you do you'll be able to see your path much more clearly. The things you need to do now to protect you and the baby later. Practical steps you can take while you're waiting out the deadline time. And if he is able to quit you haven't lost anything. No harm, no foul. See the comment I left on your profile page too. And Anvil is right...with the deadline all you've done is consented to him using. In other words, leave or have him leave first and then see if he gets clean. You'll still have no more control then than you do now about his using. But you won't be in the middle of it any longer. The bottom line is you can't make him stop using anymore than you made him begin using to start with.
14.) At this point you're grieving as well as discovering exactly how deeply trapped in this you are and how bad the situation really is. Grieving the loss of the man you knew, the man you want back. You're also grieving the loss of what might have been. You're coming to grips with the idea that the life you had so neatly planned out is burning down around you and *he* is the one burning it down. BTDT. You *can* control just how much of your life you allow him to destroy though.
Grief and grieving is a whole other area you have to deal with in addition to the anger, resentment, feelings of betrayal....there are so many emotions you have to deal with right now. And it's ok to feel all of these. I'd be more worried if you *weren't* feeling these things. But look at the bright side of this, if I could survive what I did you'll survive too. You are a survivor. You're very strong. And you know you have a good strong support system whenever you need us.
If you want me to come stay for a bit I'll do it...in a heartbeat. You know I will. I'd do it just to see the look on his face!
You'll do what you need to you do. I have faith in that. After all, you get your smarts from *somewhere* and we both know your dad... :rof
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Katy
I know it was mom who posted all that wonderful insight but guess what...
Even moms can understand the truths of life.
If accepting that mom can be so wise gets in the way of seeing what she posted...just put my name in place of her name. As I read each line, I am agreeing.
Some of it is direct and firm but with what life can throw at use...direct and firm just may save our life...It is still truth and wise words.
I know it was mom who posted all that wonderful insight but guess what...
Even moms can understand the truths of life.
If accepting that mom can be so wise gets in the way of seeing what she posted...just put my name in place of her name. As I read each line, I am agreeing.
Some of it is direct and firm but with what life can throw at use...direct and firm just may save our life...It is still truth and wise words.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Katy))) and (((Katy's mom)))
I didn't read all of mom's post, because I just got home from work and a bit sleepy but will come back to it.
I DID read enough to see that she knows what she's talking about.
Anvil's right, too. When I decided that I'd had enough of using and the life that goes with it, I stopped, and I did whatever I had to to stay clean. As far as my XABF, I had to let him go. I know he loves me, as much as an addict can love anyone, but he loves the drugs more. I refuse to be 2nd to drugs, and as long as an addict is using, that's where you'll be..at best.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I didn't read all of mom's post, because I just got home from work and a bit sleepy but will come back to it.
I DID read enough to see that she knows what she's talking about.
Anvil's right, too. When I decided that I'd had enough of using and the life that goes with it, I stopped, and I did whatever I had to to stay clean. As far as my XABF, I had to let him go. I know he loves me, as much as an addict can love anyone, but he loves the drugs more. I refuse to be 2nd to drugs, and as long as an addict is using, that's where you'll be..at best.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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