good_luck

Oh boy.

So, I've been in and out of contact with my ex for a while now. I guess it's been about 7 or eight months since I've seen him. (wow) There was a lot of the usual breakup nonsense, but things seem to have reached a nice point again between us.

We were both hurt and mad. I didn't mince words, I left town, hearts were broken all around, but life goes on.

ANYWAY let's work on my boundaries! He was a mess yesterday. Not mean, but emotional, and also saying that he wanted to die, and he needed to stop drinking. He basically ended up freaking out and making me roll my eyes because nothing had changed. I was pretty glad to be reminded why we weren't together. But then-- he called back calmer and apologetic about worrying me. Ok, good.

Better-- we had a very lovely conversation about his fears concerning quitting, his thinking about his relationship to alcohol, an admission that his out-of-control behavior (even if not constant) made it impossible for me to have a relationship with him.

It was a great conversation, very deep & honest & vulnerable. I was honest & compassionate & detached. We basically both get an "A" for this one.

Better yet-- we spoke again this afternoon, and the conversation was on the same level. No backtracking, no insane promises, no talk about getting back together. I'm thrilled to report that this does not appear to be manipulation.

Now, I've got my head on straight. I know that this isn't him actually doing anything. This is talk. Nice talk, but still talk.

But what if it isn't? What's a nice way to support him? My plan is to be available and honest and funny.

And what if he actually stops drinking?

I know I won't talk about reconciliation until after 6 months sobriety (and therapy). And I know I won't actually do anything for 6 months after that. But that's all I have! Is that even reasonable? Shouldn't I have more rules? I swear to god, if I slide into that madness again, I am going to stop talking to myself.

Any suggestions? Or lectures?

LaTeeDa

No lecture here. What you said seems reasonable to me. But how it seems to me really doesn't matter. How does it seem to you?

I've repeated my therapist's words several times on this board. "It's not about trusting him, it's about trusting yourself." So, do you trust yourself? Or do you still have more work to do?

Oh, and the other thing is, I wouldn't waste too much energy on "what if." Just deal with "what is" and you will be fine.

L

prodigal

You sound like you have a good handle on this situation. However, and this is ONLY MY OPINION ... You have had several pleasant conversations with him. He was a "mess" yesterday who "freaked out." After more pleasant interactions, in what I assume is the past 24 hours, you are questioning yourself. You are starting with the "what if's." "What if he gets sober?" "What if he wants to get back together?"

He is talking about his problem. At this moment WHAT IS is that he is not doing anything concrete about his problem. And as I said, this is my opinion. He may be manipulating you. You may be manipulating yourself. Either way, I see a shift from a person who claims this guy hadn't changed after all these months to someone who is pondering a possible reconciliation.

I "hear" manipulation all over the place. JMO.

good_luck

This is exactly right. Thank you. I think I just got a little thrown because I was really peaceful and accepting of the situation as it was. Then some of the daydreams threatened to come true, and while they are exactly what I want, it's also a change. But accepting the present, and living in it, is a skill set that isn't dependent on what the present actually is. I needed this reminder.

NYC_Chick

Hey good_luck,

I don't have any good advice. I get confused about all the "what if's" all the time lately.

It sounds like you did a good job of keeping detached though, so that's really great news!

(((good_luck)))

FormerDoormat

Are you sure you're over him? Three conversations with him in two days makes me think you're not. The only way for me to be free from the affects of another person's drinking was to free myself from the drinker. Casual phone conversations and meeting as "friends" kept me hooked.

The only thing I'm hooked on these days is recovery.

good_luck

Over him? Kind of. I will not be with him if he is drinking. I am focusing on my own life, and moved to a totally different part of the country. I know I will be fine if we never date again. But over him? Probably not. I guess I'm over the relationship. I love him, though. Always will. I'm glad we are talking, but we should do it less, I know.

carolineb

gl~

I completely understand your feelings and sure hope this isn't me in the next few months.

See....the problem is (I'm guessing) is that at one time you really loved this man. And because he's an alcoholic, you know that you really can't be with him. It just is what it is. But, it doesn't make it easy, because it's a devastating loss and a devastating disease.

IMHO, the ONLY time you want to hear from this man, is either A). He's on Step 8 and is contacting you as one of the people he hurt while he was actively drinking OR B). He has been working the steps diligently and is in love with being sober and has called to thank you for setting boundaries in the past with him.

Other than that....TALKING about his problem is not enough. Let him TALK to someone else about it....but not you. It does indeed keep you hooked, and although there's a miniscule chance he may be on the road to sobriety....give him more time. Lots more. On his own. By himself. Keep moving on.

Miss Pink

Sounds like the Hoover vacum of addiction has been ignited.....and your being sucked in!

Walking the TALK is what its all about. All he has done is talked a few talks.

When ammends have been made, money repaid, injustices made right....then you will see recovery in him.

denny57

Ok, let's. :-)

The rest of the paragraph is about him.

prodigal

Nobody has a deep, honest OR vulnerable conversation with somebody who was a mess and freaking out 24 hours earlier. AND they are still boozing.

Nobody.

good_luck

Hey, everyone. Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies.

The thing is, I have set boundaries since the breakup. I've learned a lot about myself, and what I need in a partner. The amends, the appreciation, all of these things are what I'm getting right now. That's what is making me think about what my new boundaries should be if this sobriety really holds. (I should add, in a brief response, that the dramatic phone call was the result of the flu, not intoxication.)

I do know that it is crazy to think so far ahead. I suppose the benefit that I see in it is to make sure that I don't fall right back into this again, before I am sure that it will work. (Or at least as sure as anyone can be about these things.)

I need him to stop drinking. But for how long?
I need consistent, stable communication and support.

There are other, less tangible things too. I am listening for blame, and resentment. I am paying attention to how much time is spent talking about each of us. And I'm listening for blatant manipulations.

I am very proud of him right now. I'm sorry, but I am. And I am gratified to hear the way that he is talking about his alcoholism. There has been a shift, and it has (thus far) remained constant. I'm proud of myself, too. I'm being honest, I'm not trying to act like things aren't a big deal when they are, and I'm expressing what is important to me. But most importantly I am not diving right back into things. I'm really not. Things have to change for me to be happy. It's too bad that it had to go the way that it did, but that's the way that it went.

I'm asking people's input because I am historically bad at protecting myself. I want a list, I want guidelines, I just want rules! Help me make rules!

Thanks!

FormerDoormat

When anyone else sets rules for me, I feel resentful and an overwhelming urge to break them. But when I set rules for myself, I feel empowered and I tend to stick to them.

good_luck

I'm sorry, I am clearly not coming across as I intend. I am trying to set some boundaries, which, as I understand it, are rules for myself concerning what is and isn't acceptable concerning another's behavior towards or in relation to me.

FormerDoormat

There are some threads about boundaries in the stickys on the top of the forum that you might find useful. I'd list some of my deal breakers but they only apply to me and my list tends to change (and grow) over time as I figure out who I am and what I want out of life.

hadenoughnow

I was with an A for almost 20 years, here are the points that stick out for me

This is the "I am sick" hook, don't fall for it.

It's the not so blatant that you need to watch for, mine was a master of that.

Talk is cheap, this is another hook IMO (I fell for it many times). He KNOWS that YOU are gratified when he talks about his ism, that's why he does it.

Mair

"don't waste any of your todays on imagined tomorrows that might never come....

Amen.

Mair xx

carolineb

gl~

I hate to say it....because I could see myself as vulnerable as you to this horse*****....but from an outsider's view........be careful.

You are heading down a slippery slope. Hadenoughnow pointed out some really good things about the slyness of good manipulaltion. Remember, alcoholism is powerful, cunning and baffling.

I would hate to see you believe in him too much, get yourself back in and then wind up back here 6 months from now even more heartbroken and with no self esteem because you let your guard down.

Tell him to go get sober on his own and come back in a year. Seriously.