Notices

Financial challenges from alcoholic brother living here

Old 03-24-2008, 05:50 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Financial challenges from alcoholic brother living here

Hi, everyone...This forum was suggested to me, as I am looking for help in how to handle a situation with my alcoholic brother who lives with us.

A little over a year ago, my brother was asked to leave where he was staying, which was with my other brother and his wife. He had no place to go, so my husband and I allowed him to move into the tiny apartment we have downstairs in our home. My brother assured me when he moved in that this was to be "temporary", just until he "got back on his feet", "saved a little money", etc.

As I said, this was about a year and a half ago, and he hasn't "gotten on his feet" yet. In fact, he got himself fired from his job. Instead of actively and regularly looking for a new job, he spends time sitting in the bars, or else he sits downstairs watching television. He is always either depressed or in a bad mood, and always declares that he can "never catch a break". This is very untrue, as our whole family constantly tries to help him in any way we can, especially financially.

He hasn't had any luck recently in finding a permanent job, but has found a couple of temporary jobs. The problem is, when he gets a check, he is not paying his rent first. He always has a reason for why he can't pay. Either he had a "short week", didn't get paid for sick days, child support "took all his money", etc.

We do not ask him for much at all. It isn't even really "rent". We just asked him to throw in a little bit each month to cover his share of water, electricity, heat, etc.

My husband and I live on a fixed income, and cannot afford to have somebody living here that isn't paying for their share of the expenses. I've mentioned this to my brother more than once, but it doesn't seem to sink in. He is now running a full month behind on paying us, and we do not have the money to carry him. I'm taking money from what we've set aside to pay property taxes to pay the bills while he hasn't had work.

We've found out that, even though he doesn't "have enough" to pay for his share of the expenses here, he DOES have money to drink in the bars, drink beer at home, and smoke pot. I am feeling very angry and used at this point, but love my brother and don't want to throw him out on the street. He doesn't have anywhere else to go right now. Of course he can't rent an apartment because he doesn't have a job, or savings.

To top it all off, today he came home early and told me that he had gotten laid off from his temporary job, which means that he'll, once more, be up here telling me that he "can't catch a break" and is "short this week", but he'll "catch up soon" on what he owes us.

I don't want to be an angry older sister who reprimands him, and orders him to go out daily looking for work, but at the same time, we can't afford to keep paying for his share of the expenses. It wouldn't be so stressful if we made a lot of money, but we don't, and it is.

I've been searching through the old posts on these forums, but haven't yet found any situations similar to ours.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to deal with this, I'd appreciate hearing them. I am not good at all with confrontation, and I dread having to put my foot down with my brother. I hate being the "bad guy", but I don't see many other choices at this point.

Thank you for reading...

PS If he had continued working and paying for his share of the expenses, we wouldn't have minded at all if my brother stayed here. He's not rowdy or anything. Our budget just doesn't allow us to pay for an extra person.

Last edited by vtsister; 03-24-2008 at 05:55 PM. Reason: added a PS
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:00 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Administrator
 
Anna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,328
Hi and Welcome,

I'm glad you found us.

I believe that you are doing your brother no favors, by letting him stay on in the apartment and not paying his way.

You need to focus on taking care of you and your husband emotionally and financially. You might check out the Friends and Families forum on this board, where you will also find lots of support.
Anna is online now  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:15 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
sugErspun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I didn't get any help until people stopped propping me up.

And I am a really nice and cordial guy (ie don't cause a lot of obvious problems).

The problems I did create: distrust, worry, etc etc...

The friends and family folk probably have a lot of practical advice for you. Life doesn't need to be like this, and you don't have to be the bad sister - that doesn't mean that you can continue to ignore the pain that you are going through.

All the best.
sugErspun is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:16 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
 
laurie6781's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Welcome to Sober Recovery!

Here is the Friends and Family Forum mentioned above:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ly-alcoholics/

Believe me you are doing your brother no favors at all. Put him out. As to not having a place to go............................wrong............... ............there is always the Rescue Mission in your area or The Salvation Army.

All you are doing is 'enabling' him to continue down the road of deb ilitating alcoholism.

You and your hubby might want to try some Alanon meetings. They will probably help you and your thinking immensely.

One of the things to remember is the 3 C's:

You didn't CAUSE it,

You can't CONTROL it, and

You can't Cure it.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing, we do care very much.

Hope to see you on the Friends and Family Forum.

Love and hugs,
laurie6781 is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:38 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
mle-sober
 
mle-sober's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Hey VTSister -

I've been in an almost identical situation. We housed our dry but alcoholic brother for 2 years. He was a daily and copious pot smoker. And then it was just too much of a problem for so many reasons.

In the past, my family has a bad track record of looking out for each other. And I've realized that I was sort of trying to correct that history, in a way. But like you, I really thought my brother would begin to help himself. And that did not happen.

I think all of the suggestions above are good. I think you are being well-intentioned (obviously) but that in effect, you are enabling your brother to continue to be dependant and blind to his true problems. I know it's hard. I had visions of my brother homeless (which may still come to pass) and cried a lot about it all before I could let go.

I know now (with some emotional distance) that not allowing him to stay with us any longer was absolutley the right thing to do. Hang in there.
mle-sober is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:38 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Naturally Occuring Phenomenon
 
reed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 437
You probably should not enable your brother. However, I do understand that dealing with family is very difficult; you are in a tough situation. Your brother is treating you unfairly and taking advantage of you (obviously). You can't allow this to go on much longer. You have to put your foot down at some point. You must come to terms with him in a nonargumentive way. Set down guidlines and if you have to make him sign something. Stay casual.
reed is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:40 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you for your replies. Should I post this at the Friends and Family board you mentioned too?

I'm going to look for AlAnon meetings in our area. My parents could use some help in dealing with my brother too, as he frequently manages to make them feel sorry for him and they end up giving him money to pay his rent, buy a car, etc.

He even has the nerve to go up and "do some work" at my parents' house and then charge them for it, even though he owes them a lot of money from before. They are retired and need their money. The rest of us hate to see our parents being "played" by my brother in order to get cash from them.

He even takes money out of his 2 year old son's piggy bank.

I have one sister who dares to call my brother up and tell him that he's acting like a loser, that his drinking is having an effect on the whole family, etc. He usually just gets mad and goes out drinking after these phone calls. My sister urges me to set down ground rules with my brother, or boot him out, but I haven't been able to. I feel angry about being "used", but feel guilty when I think of telling him he has to leave.

Last edited by vtsister; 03-24-2008 at 06:41 PM. Reason: edit
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:42 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
warrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 49 degrees north
Posts: 1,036
Welcome

I agree totally with the above. For one thing, anyone with a "rational mind" would pay their expenses before beer and pot. Geez, that must be a few hundred a month right there! Sounds like he expects to be "parented," and I'm sure you didn't sign up for that.

While you might post on the "friends and family" forum, tell him to log on HERE. We fellow alcoholics will both help him quit if he is willing PLUS we'll let him know what we think about his behavior regarding his "living arrangements."

Your intentions are good, but the effect will guarantee that he never seeks help or decides to "grow up."

Good luck to you.

warrens
warrens is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:07 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you, mle-sober and reed, for your replies too. I must have been posting again at the same time you were.

Would we be "beating a dead horse" if we talked to my brother again and let him know that we EXPECT him to catch up on his rent right away, BEFORE he goes drinking, buys pot, etc? (I suppose I really wouldn't say that. It's probably passive aggressive.)

We just talked to him about a week ago, and heard his plans for getting caught up on his rent. In order not to have him feel bad, I told him that because we are planning to move, he would have to look for a place too, but I told him he could have until October to do so, as I thought this would allow him time to save up enough money for a security deposit, etc. (We are looking at places to move, possibly, and very casually, but I thought using this as the reason for him to move would make it so there were no hurt feelings.)
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:26 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by warrens View Post
Welcome

I agree totally with the above. For one thing, anyone with a "rational mind" would pay their expenses before beer and pot. Geez, that must be a few hundred a month right there! Sounds like he expects to be "parented," and I'm sure you didn't sign up for that.

While you might post on the "friends and family" forum, tell him to log on HERE. We fellow alcoholics will both help him quit if he is willing PLUS we'll let him know what we think about his behavior regarding his "living arrangements."

Your intentions are good, but the effect will guarantee that he never seeks help or decides to "grow up."

Good luck to you.

warrens
Thank you for replying, warrens. I'm afraid that my brother wouldn't log on here. At this point, he doesn't see anything wrong with his drinking, though he has gone through treatment twice so far, and has been clean and sober for varying amounts of time both times.

Right now he just gets mad at anyone that points out how he isn't taking care of his responsibilities.

When he's working, he makes good money, several hundred a week, yet he is always broke. He even got my mother to give him money to buy a used car. He is a charmer, and it is easy for him to get us all to feel sorry for him.

Last edited by vtsister; 03-24-2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: add something
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:43 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
mle-sober
 
mle-sober's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Yeah - it sounds like he is an expert at feeling sorry for himself and attempting to get others to buy into his sob story. Sounds like an addict, to me. Just get your mind really clear about what he's doing. He is using you. And he's an addict/acoholic.

All you have to do is be clear - write it down if you need to - and the rest is easy. You do not need to let him take advantage of your family, you do not need to make it easy for him to drink. You have your own life to live and he needs to get out of your life and into his.

I'm pulling for you.
mle-sober is offline  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:51 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by mle-sober View Post
Yeah - it sounds like he is an expert at feeling sorry for himself and attempting to get others to buy into his sob story. Sounds like an addict, to me. Just get your mind really clear about what he's doing. He is using you. And he's an addict/acoholic.

All you have to do is be clear - write it down if you need to - and the rest is easy. You do not need to let him take advantage of your family, you do not need to make it easy for him to drink. You have your own life to live and he needs to get out of your life and into his.

I'm pulling for you.
The sister that dares confront him about stuff often gets frustrated with me because I don't confront him. She tells me he is taking advantage of us. At first, it didn't feel like he was, but now that he has lost his job, I feel it. It's as if any possible hardships or stress he's causing us don't register, because, after all, HIS life is so terrible...

The thing is, he has lived with all of us at one time or another (this is his second time with us), and every time, he doesn't leave until people get so angry with him that they kick him out. The first time he lived with me, I told him to leave after I discovered that he had stolen money from me.

The only reason we allowed him to come here this time is because his rooms are entirely separate from ours, and he has his own entrance. We also thought that he was no longer drinking/drugging because he had previous been clean and sober.
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:09 AM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. My husband and I both thought that we were helping my brother, but it looks like it's not turning out that way.
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 04:15 AM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Community Greeter
 
indigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mid-Life Express
Posts: 9,930
He's an adult and he won't stop living off you until you stop him, I know that might sound harsh 'tough love' is what I had to do with my eldest son, it hurts though not as much as when we were enabling him.
Welcome to SR lots of love and support surrounds you.
indigo
indigo is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 05:14 AM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you, Indigo...
vtsister is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 06:45 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
 
warrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 49 degrees north
Posts: 1,036
VT

Please don't take what I say the wrong way. Many people are not used to doing things which they view as "unkind" or hurtful. Many of us were raised to follow the golden rule, especially when it comes to family. It is very difficult to not "rescue" those close to us. I'd give anything to my family.

Dr. Wayne Dyer has said, "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." It is changing the way you look at your brother and what you are doing that may be of great value.

You seem to be asking permission to live your lives in the way you have earned. You don't wish to hurt anyone. That is wonderful; all people should be that way.

But are you hurting your brother by your actions? Are you hurting yourself? Not one person in this forum or the other has suggested that you keep doing what you are doing. It is not helping anyone! You may well kill your brother with kindness!

Someone suggested alanon and I will second that. You may need some face to face feedback from people who have been there. Go and share your story. Listen to the feedback. Perhaps start changing the way you look at your brother's situation. How he got there. What the disease is forcing him to do in order to "maintain" his drinking. Is he acting "sanely?" Is he acting morally?

Could you borrow $50 from someone and not pay it back as soon as you could? Wouldn't you forgo whatever pleasure you had to in order to pay it back sooner? No one is saying that your brother is a bad person. We are saying that he is sick. His sickness is forcing him to abandon any semblance of adult character. He does things to others, on a daily basis, that you would never consider doing. If he has any hope for restoring his character, he will have to do it on his own. No one else can do it for him. The more he uses people, the farther he will sink. He knows what he is doing. His guilt and shame keep increasing, forcing him deeper into addiction. As they say, denial isn't just a river in Africa.

Unfortunately, if you remove his "safety net" there is no guarantee of a positive outcome. But you will have given him a chance to restore his dignity, which is a gift more precious than money. No one here has been "enabled" into sobriety. We have done it on our own. We may have had support and some help, but we did the work. His only chance is that he will be forced to do the work. Why don't you just go out and buy his alcohol and pot? Seriously. That would make it even easier for him. If you think about it, that is exactly what you are doing. In the guise of love, you are providing him with the poison that will kill him.

Sorry to sound harsh. You are great people. You deserve to live like you are great people. Godspeed.

warrens
warrens is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 07:00 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
vtsister the best thing you can do for your brother is what my wife and family did for me, force him to have to face his alcoholism alone!!!!

I sobered up once I realized that no one was going to help me any more! No one was going to put a roof over my head or food in my belly, no one was going to pay my bills for me, it was me and my bottle against the world!!!!

As long as someone was helping me I was going to lie all I could to where I could keep on drinking.

You and your husband need to look out for your selfs, go to alanon. He is going to continue to drink and drug as long as you all keep helping him in any way! The only help you should give him is a ride to rehab/detox.

There is nothing you can do to help him except to quit helping him, he is the only one who can help him. You are not at fault once you stop helping him.
Tazman53 is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 07:55 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
let it grow!
 
parentrecovers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 15,540
i'm the mom of an alcoholic/addict, vtsister - my daughter is 23. it never works when we allow her to live at home and/or give her financial support. it just prolongs her "bottom" and causes stress in the family. i know it's hard to let go, but it's the best thing to do, imo.

easier said than done, though. i sure understand that.

alanon is a big help to my husband and i. we also get some private counseling.

take care of you. hugs, k
parentrecovers is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 08:03 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
vtsister Parentrecovers is the queen of alanon on SR in my book!
Tazman53 is offline  
Old 03-25-2008, 08:09 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you for replying to my questions, Tazman53 and warrens.

Wow! There's some profound and thought-provoking material in what you said, warrens. Sometimes when some of us in the family are talking about my brother, somebody will comment that we're amazed at the things he does, as if he doesn't have a conscience at all. We were not raised like that, that's for sure. My parents raised us to be kind, giving, to think of others and help them when they needed it. And when he's not drinking, my brother can be that way too. It's just when he's drinking/drugging. It's as if he doesn't care about anybody else at all, as long as he gets what he wants.

My sister and I are looking today for a local Al-Anon meeting.

Are you all saying that it would be best to have my brother leave our house anyway, even if he catches up on what he owes us? What I think I'm understanding from everybody's comments is that, because we don't ask him to pay us much at all, just enough to cover his portion of the expenses, it's just allowing him to have plenty of cash left over to drink/buy pot with. If he moved somewhere else, he'd have to pay the going rate for rent, which would mean he had less money to spend on drinking/drugs.

My husband had suggested that we raise the rent to something realistic if my brother wanted to keep living here. Is that an unwise idea? Should we just be hurrying him along, no matter what?

And what on earth would I tell him anyway? Oh, by the way, we've changed our minds and you have thirty days to find a new place, even though we had told you it was ok to stay here until October?

Just trying to sort all of this out in my mind, and make a plan for talking with my brother...
vtsister is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:45 AM.