Interesting Converstaion with AS (long)
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Burgh
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Interesting Converstaion with AS (long)
I am trying very hard to establish a framework of sorts for my relationship with my oldest son. While he may not be "as bad" as when I came here, the biggest difference is that I don't see it all, and I'm not missing money and everything of value to support his "habits"
The odd thing is he seems to be able to turn it on and off like a faucet, which goes against all I've been telling him, which is why I decided to stop telling him
On my good days, I worry, and I get angry with him for not "getting it" like I would like him to. I get mad at myself for not feeling the love I should for my oldest son, and for carrying resentment.
On my "gooder" days, I know he will find a way, his way, and I can be happy regardless if I choose. And in my heart I KNOW I love him as any mother loves thier son, and I need not prove it to myself or anyone else.
Back to that conversation (I digress, huh?)
He's been using my car (a spare) on occassion, with my permission and a stern warning that I expect him to keep it in good running order. The other day, somethig was wrong and he thought it may have blown a head gasket (very bad).
He called, let me know what was going on and that it was not as bad as he thought. He mentioned he was afraid to let me know...and that he had a small panic attack when it happened (are there small ones?)
Me: "Are you actually afraid of me?"
He: "Kind of...I'm afraid of disappointing you more than I already have these past few years."
I didn't respond because I didn't know what to say.
And I cried when I hung up the phone.
I guess my HP would like me to do a little more cleaning on my side of the street.
Thanks for letting me get that out.
(((Hugs)))
The odd thing is he seems to be able to turn it on and off like a faucet, which goes against all I've been telling him, which is why I decided to stop telling him
On my good days, I worry, and I get angry with him for not "getting it" like I would like him to. I get mad at myself for not feeling the love I should for my oldest son, and for carrying resentment.
On my "gooder" days, I know he will find a way, his way, and I can be happy regardless if I choose. And in my heart I KNOW I love him as any mother loves thier son, and I need not prove it to myself or anyone else.
Back to that conversation (I digress, huh?)
He's been using my car (a spare) on occassion, with my permission and a stern warning that I expect him to keep it in good running order. The other day, somethig was wrong and he thought it may have blown a head gasket (very bad).
He called, let me know what was going on and that it was not as bad as he thought. He mentioned he was afraid to let me know...and that he had a small panic attack when it happened (are there small ones?)
Me: "Are you actually afraid of me?"
He: "Kind of...I'm afraid of disappointing you more than I already have these past few years."
I didn't respond because I didn't know what to say.
And I cried when I hung up the phone.
I guess my HP would like me to do a little more cleaning on my side of the street.
Thanks for letting me get that out.
(((Hugs)))
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
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(((( cece ))))
Awww. I totally understand all those mixed up feelings that come from being the mom of a wayward boy.
I've found that my relationships work a lot better if I just allow them to unfold at their own pace without my "making" something happen. My younger son has moved to a college town, and I don't know a lot of what is going on in his day to day life. I DO know that he seems to making some good choices and he's dealing with his own consequences. Our relationship is better now that I've let him go a bit!
I'm rambling (need more coffee !) but I wanted to let you know your post touched my mom heart this morning.
HUGS
Cats
Awww. I totally understand all those mixed up feelings that come from being the mom of a wayward boy.
I've found that my relationships work a lot better if I just allow them to unfold at their own pace without my "making" something happen. My younger son has moved to a college town, and I don't know a lot of what is going on in his day to day life. I DO know that he seems to making some good choices and he's dealing with his own consequences. Our relationship is better now that I've let him go a bit!
I'm rambling (need more coffee !) but I wanted to let you know your post touched my mom heart this morning.
HUGS
Cats
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Cece)))
The way I see what he is saying, is that he is aware of how his actions have affected you the past few years. I don't see it as anything you've done wrong. I worry, too, about letting my dad down because of all that I put him through when I was using. I'm grateful that he loves me enough that he let me fall on my face, and figure out how to get back up.
Most children want their parents to be proud of them. I think that, even though he is not living his life the way you would like him to, he is more aware of how what he does affects you. That doesn't mean he will change the things he's doing that you don't like, but at least he's acknowledging your feelings.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
The way I see what he is saying, is that he is aware of how his actions have affected you the past few years. I don't see it as anything you've done wrong. I worry, too, about letting my dad down because of all that I put him through when I was using. I'm grateful that he loves me enough that he let me fall on my face, and figure out how to get back up.
Most children want their parents to be proud of them. I think that, even though he is not living his life the way you would like him to, he is more aware of how what he does affects you. That doesn't mean he will change the things he's doing that you don't like, but at least he's acknowledging your feelings.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: twilight zone,usa
Posts: 3,909
i can relate with you as a mom. the mother side of me wants to be close to my a.s. but the recovery side of me knows i can not be. i have to let him go for my peace of mind. it is good, a little sad but good that he is scare of you. as long as he is a little bit afraid he will not take advantage of you as he did in the past. keep doing what you have been doing & take care of you. he will find his way, we can not ever give up hope. hugs & prayers,
Rest peacefully Sonny Boy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Florida, Tennessee
Posts: 840
((cece))
Cleaning our side of the street is like cleaning the house, gotta do it every day. It becomes a way of life, not a chore eventually, just a routine.
I see so much hope in your situation with your son. It's good that he doesn't want to disappoint you. Try not to be so hard on yourself, you are doing great.
Hugs
B
Cleaning our side of the street is like cleaning the house, gotta do it every day. It becomes a way of life, not a chore eventually, just a routine.
I see so much hope in your situation with your son. It's good that he doesn't want to disappoint you. Try not to be so hard on yourself, you are doing great.
Hugs
B
remember to breathe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia pa
Posts: 1,280
Another mom here,
As if it isn't hard enough going through all the things we've gone through with our addict children, we have to second guess ourselve in their recovery too.
I can only speak for myself but I'm sure you can relate.
I know that I have done all that I could for my son, and of course that includes enable him. But from money, food, a place to live, fixing his car, paying his car insurance, giving him cigarette money and so on and so on. But I also gave him my love, advice, guidance, support and everything else a mother could give.
with all that being said, now my RAS is doing well however, our relationship is not the same as it was BD (before drugs) I'm not sure of the reason but I feel as though he knows that I know him better than he knows himself and that might make him insecure.
But what can I do, this is not my problem it's his, I will gladly do whatever he needs to make him feel better, but without a conversation regarding our relationship it is what it is.
As if it isn't hard enough going through all the things we've gone through with our addict children, we have to second guess ourselve in their recovery too.
I can only speak for myself but I'm sure you can relate.
I know that I have done all that I could for my son, and of course that includes enable him. But from money, food, a place to live, fixing his car, paying his car insurance, giving him cigarette money and so on and so on. But I also gave him my love, advice, guidance, support and everything else a mother could give.
with all that being said, now my RAS is doing well however, our relationship is not the same as it was BD (before drugs) I'm not sure of the reason but I feel as though he knows that I know him better than he knows himself and that might make him insecure.
But what can I do, this is not my problem it's his, I will gladly do whatever he needs to make him feel better, but without a conversation regarding our relationship it is what it is.
StrivingToThrive
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: san diego, ca
Posts: 425
(((cece # 1)))
I can relate to your up and down feelings as well as your self-flagellation. Having our AS's get "somewhat" better, seems to close the major fear and panic door but opens the reality one. And we can often "look" too hard at all aspects of their behavior. Hmmm (okay maybe thats just my problem these days!)
Sometimes those of us in a program who work it hard (like the good students that we are,) have almost too much information in our head at one time. And so, sometimes we in our effort to work our program well, over analyze our side of the street. ( I know I do). We can turn from one form of wrong sense of responsibility to another! Its good to know what we are doing and why, but..
sometimes it just "is what it is" and nothing more.
IMHO your son was sharing with you his reaction to the issue based on his growth and recovery. He was showing he has developed responsibility as well as empathy. It is your car, he is borrowing it, it is understandable that he would be worried if something happened to it, and it's wonderful and shows growth that he would take responsibility for it.
So maybe, Instead of thinking his reaction meant you are putting out negativity, you could look at it as he has learned you aren't a doormat anymore??
Again, IMHO.
Happy for both of you.
Your recovery is shining through as well as your desire to continue growth, But give yourself a bit of a break on this one.:ghug3
Cece # 2 Cathy
I can relate to your up and down feelings as well as your self-flagellation. Having our AS's get "somewhat" better, seems to close the major fear and panic door but opens the reality one. And we can often "look" too hard at all aspects of their behavior. Hmmm (okay maybe thats just my problem these days!)
Sometimes those of us in a program who work it hard (like the good students that we are,) have almost too much information in our head at one time. And so, sometimes we in our effort to work our program well, over analyze our side of the street. ( I know I do). We can turn from one form of wrong sense of responsibility to another! Its good to know what we are doing and why, but..
sometimes it just "is what it is" and nothing more.
IMHO your son was sharing with you his reaction to the issue based on his growth and recovery. He was showing he has developed responsibility as well as empathy. It is your car, he is borrowing it, it is understandable that he would be worried if something happened to it, and it's wonderful and shows growth that he would take responsibility for it.
So maybe, Instead of thinking his reaction meant you are putting out negativity, you could look at it as he has learned you aren't a doormat anymore??
Again, IMHO.
Happy for both of you.
Your recovery is shining through as well as your desire to continue growth, But give yourself a bit of a break on this one.:ghug3
Cece # 2 Cathy
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
My daughter has told me the same thing. She says that she has done so many bad things and that someday she wants to make me proud of her. Even though she is still out there using, when I see her she tries to do or say something that she thinks will please me. I remember one time going to the house that she was sharing with her boyfriend and it was a pigstye. Later that evening I went back over there to go with her for a walk and she had cleaned the place from top to bottom. She wanted to show me something in her bedroom. Now I saw at least 20 lighters that were used for crack and a towel that was black from cleaning out the crackpipe, but the thing that she wanted me to see was how she had arranged all of her perfumes and moisturizers on the shelf in her closet. It still makes me sad when I think of it. She has also told me that she is afraid of me because she never knows if I am going to be nice or not. So I have given up trying to be anything. It is not my issue because until addiction entered our lives we almost always got along. She can not see that it is the addiction that changed our relationship and until she gets help, it will continue to do so. Sorry so longwinded, but it is something that has happened to me recently and I have had to go back to the First Step for. Hugs, Marle
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
Just chiming in as a mom of a son, Cece. I know mine also is always trying to tell something "good" he has done in hopes for approval. But then again, so is my non-A daughter! Heck, I think I even do it with my own mom. Maybe it's just the nature of the parent/child relationship, with or without the addiction. But because of the addiction, I am much more guarded and often disbelieving of my son. It makes me feel bad, but it is based on actions and reality. I too have felt that I haven't or don't love my son as much as I should. I try to remember the "love the child, hate the addiction" message I've read here, and also just trying to let it flow, one day at a time.
Jujubee Queen
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 3,582
Ahhh Cece,
I think it just takes us a while to get the good feelings back.
Like you, I love my oldest the same as my youngest, but gosh darn, he makes it hard to love him sometimes! So I sure understand where you're coming from.
And, I really don't think he's "afraid" of you, I think he has gained new respect for you, along with not wanting to disappoint you, it's a good thing.
Hugs to you,
I think it just takes us a while to get the good feelings back.
Like you, I love my oldest the same as my youngest, but gosh darn, he makes it hard to love him sometimes! So I sure understand where you're coming from.
And, I really don't think he's "afraid" of you, I think he has gained new respect for you, along with not wanting to disappoint you, it's a good thing.
Hugs to you,
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Cece, I think it's more their own shame or guilt at what they have done and how they have been, than a reflection on us or how we have behaved or anything we said.
I'm not saying we're perfect and don't have a responsibility to keep our side of the street clean. But even if we were perfect in every way, they'd still feel guilt and shame at how often they have hurt us, even if we didn't let it show.
Recovery will help them deal with that, and until then they'll carry the load.
So wipe those tears and just know that like all the moms here, you can just do the best you can on any given day...and that's more than okay.
Hugs
I'm not saying we're perfect and don't have a responsibility to keep our side of the street clean. But even if we were perfect in every way, they'd still feel guilt and shame at how often they have hurt us, even if we didn't let it show.
Recovery will help them deal with that, and until then they'll carry the load.
So wipe those tears and just know that like all the moms here, you can just do the best you can on any given day...and that's more than okay.
Hugs
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: a better place
Posts: 4,047
((((Cece))))
I totally agree with what's been said before me. I don't have a son and I suspect the relationship is a little different than the mother daughter one (because talking about feelings is generally easier for gals than guys) but I do know that both my girls when working recovery told me that while using a big part of the shame and guilt was that they believed they were such a disappointment to me. Our kids are no different than we are in that they too had an image (pre drugs) of addicts and junkies being bums on the street. Our kids have some idea of what a "normal" life is and they see their non using ex classmates or friends making their way in the world....and I'm sure that makes them feel like failures.
Some of my harder conversations with my daughter was when she was working a good recovery program but the consequences of the past were still around. That didn't bother me (I was simply grateful she was clean and alive) but my desire to somehow make her feel better about herself and all the guilt and shame she felt was so intense...But there wasn't much I could do there either, just love her ,say I am proud of the steps you are taking and I will always support your recovery. Time heals...working on recovery helps the healing too.
You know, I was just thinking...I'm not an addict but as a young adult I was pretty darn scared of my mom too...Same reason, I didn't want to disappoint her. (of course my mom was a little scarier than you are...She ruled the roost, lol)
I think you have a wonderful relationship with your son...he told you this, didn't he? Hugs
I totally agree with what's been said before me. I don't have a son and I suspect the relationship is a little different than the mother daughter one (because talking about feelings is generally easier for gals than guys) but I do know that both my girls when working recovery told me that while using a big part of the shame and guilt was that they believed they were such a disappointment to me. Our kids are no different than we are in that they too had an image (pre drugs) of addicts and junkies being bums on the street. Our kids have some idea of what a "normal" life is and they see their non using ex classmates or friends making their way in the world....and I'm sure that makes them feel like failures.
Some of my harder conversations with my daughter was when she was working a good recovery program but the consequences of the past were still around. That didn't bother me (I was simply grateful she was clean and alive) but my desire to somehow make her feel better about herself and all the guilt and shame she felt was so intense...But there wasn't much I could do there either, just love her ,say I am proud of the steps you are taking and I will always support your recovery. Time heals...working on recovery helps the healing too.
You know, I was just thinking...I'm not an addict but as a young adult I was pretty darn scared of my mom too...Same reason, I didn't want to disappoint her. (of course my mom was a little scarier than you are...She ruled the roost, lol)
I think you have a wonderful relationship with your son...he told you this, didn't he? Hugs
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