empathy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jacksonville, florida
Posts: 341
empathy
my ah is looking for empathy. In our session with the marriage counsler yesterday he said he does feel gulity all the time about what he did.
BUt he wants me to have empathy for him. He thinks that i should have empathy and realize that he was in such a bad place, suffering so much in his life that it came to the point where he chose to use drugs to cope. He wants me to have empathy for him for being in that place where he coudlnt cope--that he was at such a low point in his life...he also wants me to feel empathy for what he went through after i got the Restraining Order last June. He went to jail, (for breaking the ro--i let him in the house, and the cops saw his car).didnt see his kids for 2 weeks, was living alone, i filed for divorce, etc....he was in so much pain, and has anger towards me for what he went through...he thinks that if he has empathy for me, and i feel better when he says he feels guilty, he wants to know when is his turn to recieve empathy from me?? When i do show a little love and caring, it does make him feel better, and i think that maybe he didnt have enough empathy as a child, and so he really is needy in that regard.
Of course I feel that HELLO--it was your fault that you grabbed me, and the reason i felt i had to get the RO was a result of YOUR actions---it wasnt the first time it happened or even the 2nd or third....you are an adult and you have to take resposibilty for your actions which come with consequences....
he thinks that i should have unconditional love for him, like a parent has for a child...i dont believe that is true--in a marriage there ARE certain conditions--there ARE boundaries--you just can't violtate those boundaries time after time and expect no consequences....
He says he feels horrible after the sessions that he gets beat up in the sessions and all its doing is making me feel better, and making him feel bad about himself.
I can say that there were things in our marriage that i was at fault for--not being intimate or affectionate enough, not sticking to a budget like my husband wanted me to, (asking me over and over)...not trying hard enough not to over spend, not trying hard enough to have a closer realtionship with him....and i do feel bad about these things....but its hard for me to have empathy for him in regards to the drug use because of all the lies and how i was treated...i beleive i had empathy in the beginning ( although he disagrees)...is forgiveness what i need to work on???? How do you forgive someone who thinks he didnt deserved what happened to him as a result of his actions? Does god want me to be more forgiving??? Am i being cold?
I am so hurt by everything, as i expressed in the session that the empathy turned to resentment.
thanks for listening---
BUt he wants me to have empathy for him. He thinks that i should have empathy and realize that he was in such a bad place, suffering so much in his life that it came to the point where he chose to use drugs to cope. He wants me to have empathy for him for being in that place where he coudlnt cope--that he was at such a low point in his life...he also wants me to feel empathy for what he went through after i got the Restraining Order last June. He went to jail, (for breaking the ro--i let him in the house, and the cops saw his car).didnt see his kids for 2 weeks, was living alone, i filed for divorce, etc....he was in so much pain, and has anger towards me for what he went through...he thinks that if he has empathy for me, and i feel better when he says he feels guilty, he wants to know when is his turn to recieve empathy from me?? When i do show a little love and caring, it does make him feel better, and i think that maybe he didnt have enough empathy as a child, and so he really is needy in that regard.
Of course I feel that HELLO--it was your fault that you grabbed me, and the reason i felt i had to get the RO was a result of YOUR actions---it wasnt the first time it happened or even the 2nd or third....you are an adult and you have to take resposibilty for your actions which come with consequences....
he thinks that i should have unconditional love for him, like a parent has for a child...i dont believe that is true--in a marriage there ARE certain conditions--there ARE boundaries--you just can't violtate those boundaries time after time and expect no consequences....
He says he feels horrible after the sessions that he gets beat up in the sessions and all its doing is making me feel better, and making him feel bad about himself.
I can say that there were things in our marriage that i was at fault for--not being intimate or affectionate enough, not sticking to a budget like my husband wanted me to, (asking me over and over)...not trying hard enough not to over spend, not trying hard enough to have a closer realtionship with him....and i do feel bad about these things....but its hard for me to have empathy for him in regards to the drug use because of all the lies and how i was treated...i beleive i had empathy in the beginning ( although he disagrees)...is forgiveness what i need to work on???? How do you forgive someone who thinks he didnt deserved what happened to him as a result of his actions? Does god want me to be more forgiving??? Am i being cold?
I am so hurt by everything, as i expressed in the session that the empathy turned to resentment.
thanks for listening---
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N. California
Posts: 50
I just wanted to give you hugs and let you know that I am working in the "acceptance" part of my own recovery now (Alanon) and it is a hard step to take. Along with that is coming a huge sense of relief from anger and resentment that is finally allowing me to focus on myself , which in turn is making things clear in our relationship. Unconditional love is great but even with a child, parents stick to boundaries , what are your boundaries and has he crossed them after you let him know what they are??? As far as getting "Beat up" in counseling, well, if he is working his step work, he would probably realize that it is the open , honest conversation that is emotionally freeing yet tiring. (also sounds like he is being manipulative but then again, that is no surprise because that is what addicts do, whether we love them or not)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: To the North
Posts: 1,086
Dear Drained - First of all ((((hugs)))). Even when we're making progress and understand we're being manipulated, etc., it's so exhausting to deflect this behavior while we're still working on our new tools! You'll get there, so many others obviously have, I'm working too.
Sierra-Jess had a good point. Open honest conversation is difficult, and can be exhausting. Sounds like you've "owned up" to some of your stuff, was it easy? Did you feel a little tired after going through it? I would imagine you did, I know I do. I feel better in the long run, but being able to be honest about our actions and really face them and deal with them to put them away is in some cases more involved than others. Point is, did you get on a pity-pot and say I feel "beat up", or did you recognize why you felt that way (if you did?).
Reading this and seeing SJ's response really reminded me how much work I still have to do myself. I would have heard him say he felt "beat up", I would have held my ground that it was his issue to feel that way, etc., but I would have felt a little tired at first sticking to this by choosing to ignore a (victim) statement like that - because gut instinct would be to try to make him feel better. But, the fact is, it's not being beat up, and if I could think fast and clear enough to say - to myself or my AH at that moment - no, it's emotionally exhausting being an adult and dealing with the issues in our relationship, but it's not about beating you up, you just don't have experience doing it. Or some such - know what I'm saying? It wouldn't be so draining to let him have his own feeling. I "miss the point" less often now, but I still need to work on this one - a lot!
Keep strong and keep taking care of yourself! Thanks for the insight!
Hang in there.
Sierra-Jess had a good point. Open honest conversation is difficult, and can be exhausting. Sounds like you've "owned up" to some of your stuff, was it easy? Did you feel a little tired after going through it? I would imagine you did, I know I do. I feel better in the long run, but being able to be honest about our actions and really face them and deal with them to put them away is in some cases more involved than others. Point is, did you get on a pity-pot and say I feel "beat up", or did you recognize why you felt that way (if you did?).
Reading this and seeing SJ's response really reminded me how much work I still have to do myself. I would have heard him say he felt "beat up", I would have held my ground that it was his issue to feel that way, etc., but I would have felt a little tired at first sticking to this by choosing to ignore a (victim) statement like that - because gut instinct would be to try to make him feel better. But, the fact is, it's not being beat up, and if I could think fast and clear enough to say - to myself or my AH at that moment - no, it's emotionally exhausting being an adult and dealing with the issues in our relationship, but it's not about beating you up, you just don't have experience doing it. Or some such - know what I'm saying? It wouldn't be so draining to let him have his own feeling. I "miss the point" less often now, but I still need to work on this one - a lot!
Keep strong and keep taking care of yourself! Thanks for the insight!
Hang in there.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Dear Drained - First of all ((((hugs)))). Even when we're making progress and understand we're being manipulated, etc., it's so exhausting to deflect this behavior while we're still working on our new tools! You'll get there, so many others obviously have, I'm working too.
Your ability to see through him has come by getting THIS far down the road. When you first arrived, I think he could have suckered you back in trying to use guilt. But now he cannot. He may increase the pressure, which will only make the manipulation more clear.
Be strong, DW... (((hugs)))
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Right here somewhere
Posts: 509
Tell him to hire a violinist to play some sad, dreary music and he will have his empathy.
But thats really not what he wants. He wants the world to acknowledge HIS pain....because its all about him....dont ya know!
Hang in there...
But thats really not what he wants. He wants the world to acknowledge HIS pain....because its all about him....dont ya know!
Hang in there...
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
(I try) and seek to understand and then be understood.
So say you 'did' understand him and what he was saying
or where he was coming from?
What would that change?
Would it help/hurt anything?
Would it help you?
He is the only one who can make himself feel bad about himself.
You can't do that, a therapist can't do that, but drug abuse can, and
he can.
It's up to him to learn how to stop feeling bad about himself.
Don't let him project his bad feelings into being your fault.
You can 'understand' where someone is coming from but not take on those feelings.
Just my .02 cents on the matter.
When I was using, my views were pretty skewed, I'm usually pretty good at taking responsibility for myself, my therapists have said almost to a fault.
But when I was using, that changed.
(((DW)))
So say you 'did' understand him and what he was saying
or where he was coming from?
What would that change?
Would it help/hurt anything?
Would it help you?
He says he feels horrible after the sessions that he gets beat up in the sessions and all its doing is making me feel better, and making him feel bad about himself.
You can't do that, a therapist can't do that, but drug abuse can, and
he can.
It's up to him to learn how to stop feeling bad about himself.
Don't let him project his bad feelings into being your fault.
You can 'understand' where someone is coming from but not take on those feelings.
Just my .02 cents on the matter.
When I was using, my views were pretty skewed, I'm usually pretty good at taking responsibility for myself, my therapists have said almost to a fault.
But when I was using, that changed.
(((DW)))
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 113
It's what addicts do. When in active recovery, they are supposed to make amends and apologize (and mean it) for the hurtful things they've done while under the influence. At this point, if they are truly working the Steps, they won't ask anything of you, other than hope and a prayer that they continue on the road to recovery. It sounds like your AH still has some denial to deal with. I am approached occasionally by my XAH, who is actively using and on his pitty pot for anyone who will lend a sympathetic ear. He tells me over and over (and it starts like this) "I know I did a lot of stupid things, and i see that now, BUT nobody has ever talked to me the way that you did." And after hearing this over and over, I say to him...It wasn't you that I was talking to, it's the addiction, and if ever put in the situation again, I would imagine those same words would come out AGAIN. Not only does insanity define addiction, but it also effects family and friends that are involved. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Living in the light
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sweet Home Serenity
Posts: 706
Awww poor poor him. Self pity is a primary focus of using addicts. It's part of the disease. You do not have to cosign his self pity. I don't know whether hub is in recovery
but can assure you fellow recovering addicts would tell him....get off the pity pot.
As for your own discovery, having resentments, you can work on them for the sake of your own well being. Awareness is the first step. Resentments do not disappear overnight, however by writing them down and owning them, you can begin to release them and give them to your HP. Forgiveness comes with time. You are growing in recovery and with growth comes healing.
Hugs
but can assure you fellow recovering addicts would tell him....get off the pity pot.
As for your own discovery, having resentments, you can work on them for the sake of your own well being. Awareness is the first step. Resentments do not disappear overnight, however by writing them down and owning them, you can begin to release them and give them to your HP. Forgiveness comes with time. You are growing in recovery and with growth comes healing.
Hugs
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
He need to take responsibility for himself and stop trying to make you hold the bag on his behavior. I promise when he actually does this he will feel much better.
I have been thru some things with my H that seem very simular to what you are going thru. It has been a looooooooooooooog journey for me to stop enabling him and allowing him to take responsibility for the things that are his. My H is not stupid and neither is yours.
I think it is pretty normal for them to feel a lot of self pity so why should I or you feel sorry for them when they have more than enough pity for themselves. Let's face there ain't no more room for pity cause they have it all.
I am giving myself a break on his stuff I hope you will do the same or at least think about it. (((((HUGS)))))
I have been thru some things with my H that seem very simular to what you are going thru. It has been a looooooooooooooog journey for me to stop enabling him and allowing him to take responsibility for the things that are his. My H is not stupid and neither is yours.
I think it is pretty normal for them to feel a lot of self pity so why should I or you feel sorry for them when they have more than enough pity for themselves. Let's face there ain't no more room for pity cause they have it all.
I am giving myself a break on his stuff I hope you will do the same or at least think about it. (((((HUGS)))))
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
DW, don't fall for it..........................he's still QUACKING and MANIPULATING and is full of chit.
Don't take on his baggage. His problems, caused by him, his responsibility. There would have been no court, no RO, etc if his actions and words had not caused the problems to begin with.
If the councilor that you are both seeing does not understand addiction, then I am not sure of how much assistance that councilor can be.
You are and have been taking responsibility for your actions.
None of this sounds serious, sounds more like a 'controlling' man and you not meeting HIS EXPECTATIONS. Did you meet your own? Budget and money problems seem to be the #1 problems in marriages, followed by alcoholism and/or addiction problems.
Just remember it's his ACTIONS not his words that wil show you whether he is working on recovery or not. At this moment, based on your thread, doesn't sound like he is, but you are.
You, right now that is all that matters. Bot my AA sponsor and my Alanon sponsor would remind me constantly (yes they were close friends, lol) keep your priorities in order:
HP first,
Then myself,
The those around me in order of importance to me.
Boy did that help me. Without my own recovery and some serenity and peace in my life, I wouldn't be able to help those close to me and/or be of service, etc.
DW stay focused on you sweetie, you have grown a lot since you first started posting here.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, you know we care.
Love and hugs,
Don't take on his baggage. His problems, caused by him, his responsibility. There would have been no court, no RO, etc if his actions and words had not caused the problems to begin with.
If the councilor that you are both seeing does not understand addiction, then I am not sure of how much assistance that councilor can be.
You are and have been taking responsibility for your actions.
I can say that there were things in our marriage that i was at fault for--not being intimate or affectionate enough, not sticking to a budget like my husband wanted me to, (asking me over and over)...not trying hard enough not to over spend, not trying hard enough to have a closer realtionship with him....and i do feel bad about these things..
Just remember it's his ACTIONS not his words that wil show you whether he is working on recovery or not. At this moment, based on your thread, doesn't sound like he is, but you are.
You, right now that is all that matters. Bot my AA sponsor and my Alanon sponsor would remind me constantly (yes they were close friends, lol) keep your priorities in order:
HP first,
Then myself,
The those around me in order of importance to me.
Boy did that help me. Without my own recovery and some serenity and peace in my life, I wouldn't be able to help those close to me and/or be of service, etc.
DW stay focused on you sweetie, you have grown a lot since you first started posting here.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, you know we care.
Love and hugs,
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