empathy
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: jacksonville, florida
Posts: 341
empathy
my ah is looking for empathy. In our session with the marriage counsler yesterday he said he does feel gulity all the time about what he did.
BUt he wants me to have empathy for him. He thinks that i should have empathy and realize that he was in such a bad place, suffering so much in his life that it came to the point where he chose to use drugs to cope. He wants me to have empathy for him for being in that place where he coudlnt cope--that he was at such a low point in his life...he also wants me to feel empathy for what he went through after i got the Restraining Order last June. He went to jail, (for breaking the ro--i let him in the house, and the cops saw his car).didnt see his kids for 2 weeks, was living alone, i filed for divorce, etc....he was in so much pain, and has anger towards me for what he went through...he thinks that if he has empathy for me, and i feel better when he says he feels guilty, he wants to know when is his turn to recieve empathy from me?? When i do show a little love and caring, it does make him feel better, and i think that maybe he didnt have enough empathy as a child, and so he really is needy in that regard.
Of course I feel that HELLO--it was your fault that you grabbed me, and the reason i felt i had to get the RO was a result of YOUR actions---it wasnt the first time it happened or even the 2nd or third....you are an adult and you have to take resposibilty for your actions which come with consequences....
he thinks that i should have unconditional love for him, like a parent has for a child...i dont believe that is true--in a marriage there ARE certain conditions--there ARE boundaries--you just can't violtate those boundaries time after time and expect no consequences....
He says he feels horrible after the sessions that he gets beat up in the sessions and all its doing is making me feel better, and making him feel bad about himself.
I can say that there were things in our marriage that i was at fault for--not being intimate or affectionate enough, not sticking to a budget like my husband wanted me to, (asking me over and over)...not trying hard enough not to over spend, not trying hard enough to have a closer realtionship with him....and i do feel bad about these things....but its hard for me to have empathy for him in regards to the drug use because of all the lies and how i was treated...i beleive i had empathy in the beginning ( although he disagrees)...is forgiveness what i need to work on???? How do you forgive someone who thinks he didnt deserved what happened to him as a result of his actions? Does god want me to be more forgiving??? Am i being cold?
I am so hurt by everything, as i expressed in the session that the empathy turned to resentment.
thanks for listening---
BUt he wants me to have empathy for him. He thinks that i should have empathy and realize that he was in such a bad place, suffering so much in his life that it came to the point where he chose to use drugs to cope. He wants me to have empathy for him for being in that place where he coudlnt cope--that he was at such a low point in his life...he also wants me to feel empathy for what he went through after i got the Restraining Order last June. He went to jail, (for breaking the ro--i let him in the house, and the cops saw his car).didnt see his kids for 2 weeks, was living alone, i filed for divorce, etc....he was in so much pain, and has anger towards me for what he went through...he thinks that if he has empathy for me, and i feel better when he says he feels guilty, he wants to know when is his turn to recieve empathy from me?? When i do show a little love and caring, it does make him feel better, and i think that maybe he didnt have enough empathy as a child, and so he really is needy in that regard.
Of course I feel that HELLO--it was your fault that you grabbed me, and the reason i felt i had to get the RO was a result of YOUR actions---it wasnt the first time it happened or even the 2nd or third....you are an adult and you have to take resposibilty for your actions which come with consequences....
he thinks that i should have unconditional love for him, like a parent has for a child...i dont believe that is true--in a marriage there ARE certain conditions--there ARE boundaries--you just can't violtate those boundaries time after time and expect no consequences....
He says he feels horrible after the sessions that he gets beat up in the sessions and all its doing is making me feel better, and making him feel bad about himself.
I can say that there were things in our marriage that i was at fault for--not being intimate or affectionate enough, not sticking to a budget like my husband wanted me to, (asking me over and over)...not trying hard enough not to over spend, not trying hard enough to have a closer realtionship with him....and i do feel bad about these things....but its hard for me to have empathy for him in regards to the drug use because of all the lies and how i was treated...i beleive i had empathy in the beginning ( although he disagrees)...is forgiveness what i need to work on???? How do you forgive someone who thinks he didnt deserved what happened to him as a result of his actions? Does god want me to be more forgiving??? Am i being cold?
I am so hurt by everything, as i expressed in the session that the empathy turned to resentment.
thanks for listening---
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Yes forgive him BUT...
You don't forgive him because of his amends he should be making, you forgive him to bring "your" heart to a state of peace.
I would ask the counselor if they understand the 12 steps used in NA and AA and if so, maybe have you both work through the 4th and 5th steps.
Each work through them as individuals and then each work through them as a couple. Yesterday is yesterday, we can't change it but we can do right today.
You don't forgive him because of his amends he should be making, you forgive him to bring "your" heart to a state of peace.
I would ask the counselor if they understand the 12 steps used in NA and AA and if so, maybe have you both work through the 4th and 5th steps.
Each work through them as individuals and then each work through them as a couple. Yesterday is yesterday, we can't change it but we can do right today.
Survivor
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 149
Hey DW...
This is a article on forgiveness that helped me, hope it helps you...
_ Forgiveness
That forgiveness is not the ACCEPTANCE of bad behavior from another person nor is it PERMISSION for that behavior to occur again. Forgiveness is a COURAGEOUS ACT in that you have enough LOVE for YOURSELF and others not to carry the burden of hatred in your heart as well as a courageous act of not allowing yourself to be "victimized". Forgiveness should help you BREAK the CYCLE of pain you're living with and should afford you the strength to leave your hostile environment with a clear heart and conscience. That is, in your mind you should know "Yes, I forgive you. My HP has taught me this. However, I won't be a victim; I won't allow you to keep hurting me because I have to love myself above all."
This is a article on forgiveness that helped me, hope it helps you...
_ Forgiveness
That forgiveness is not the ACCEPTANCE of bad behavior from another person nor is it PERMISSION for that behavior to occur again. Forgiveness is a COURAGEOUS ACT in that you have enough LOVE for YOURSELF and others not to carry the burden of hatred in your heart as well as a courageous act of not allowing yourself to be "victimized". Forgiveness should help you BREAK the CYCLE of pain you're living with and should afford you the strength to leave your hostile environment with a clear heart and conscience. That is, in your mind you should know "Yes, I forgive you. My HP has taught me this. However, I won't be a victim; I won't allow you to keep hurting me because I have to love myself above all."
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
I agree with the forgiveness thing but....
Do you really feel like putting yourself in his shoes? I feel sympathetic for my H but I do not empathize with him mainly because I choose not to feel what he feels. I forgive him too but...no empathy from me.
Originally Posted by wikkipedia
Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 49 degrees north
Posts: 1,036
I respectfully disagree with the article on forgiveness. I am the recovering in my family.
People have said (and I think it wise) to "separate the addict from the addiction." There is also much agreement that we addicts suffer from a disease.
If the above is true, would you "accept" a diabetic's illness or "forgive" them for it?
As for asking for empathy: I think that is selfish on the addict's part.
I ask only that my loved ones "accept" my illness as illness. I do not want them to empathize, nor try to "understand." They can't. Thank god they can't.
That puts the burden on me to treat my disease. It has little to do with them. I own my success, I own my failure. They are interested spectators. Just like you can lead a horse to insulin....
Accepting another's disease, in this case a bio-psycho-social-spiritual disease in no way means it is your lot to endure the disease. Sure, an addict is likely to have some foul moods and very difficult times.
I cannot "empathize" with PMS or menopause. It causes some behavior that causes this man to shake his head. WTF is going on? But if M'lady starts throwing priceless objects around the house, am I simply to accept it? I don't think so. I can accept the malady without accepting "out of bounds" behavior.
We addicts (in my case alcohol) need to know that we have bounds. Some of us are selfish enough to latch on to the disease model too hard. "I'm sick, therefore..." The social part of the disease has to be self treated as much as the bio and psycho and spiritual aspects. Otherwise we remain untreated.
I suggest that you "accept" his disease and also "accept" that he will treat it. Empathize with something that you share and can understand. But not this and not hurtful deceitful, and destructive behavior. If you have children, you certainly accept them. But do you accept all of their behavior? Not if you wish them to grow to be functioning adults.
Peace
warrens
People have said (and I think it wise) to "separate the addict from the addiction." There is also much agreement that we addicts suffer from a disease.
If the above is true, would you "accept" a diabetic's illness or "forgive" them for it?
As for asking for empathy: I think that is selfish on the addict's part.
I ask only that my loved ones "accept" my illness as illness. I do not want them to empathize, nor try to "understand." They can't. Thank god they can't.
That puts the burden on me to treat my disease. It has little to do with them. I own my success, I own my failure. They are interested spectators. Just like you can lead a horse to insulin....
Accepting another's disease, in this case a bio-psycho-social-spiritual disease in no way means it is your lot to endure the disease. Sure, an addict is likely to have some foul moods and very difficult times.
I cannot "empathize" with PMS or menopause. It causes some behavior that causes this man to shake his head. WTF is going on? But if M'lady starts throwing priceless objects around the house, am I simply to accept it? I don't think so. I can accept the malady without accepting "out of bounds" behavior.
We addicts (in my case alcohol) need to know that we have bounds. Some of us are selfish enough to latch on to the disease model too hard. "I'm sick, therefore..." The social part of the disease has to be self treated as much as the bio and psycho and spiritual aspects. Otherwise we remain untreated.
I suggest that you "accept" his disease and also "accept" that he will treat it. Empathize with something that you share and can understand. But not this and not hurtful deceitful, and destructive behavior. If you have children, you certainly accept them. But do you accept all of their behavior? Not if you wish them to grow to be functioning adults.
Peace
warrens
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
em·pa·thy (ěm'pə-thē) Pronunciation Key
n.
1-Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2-The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.
Based on what you post, it sounds like your husband makes a lot of excuses for his behavior and seems to still be playing the blame game. I'm glad that you can come here to vent. I have to ask, are you getting anything positive out of these sessions.
And empathy? I can't believe your husband asked for it. As a recovering addict, I don't want anyones pity for what I put myself through. Understanding, forgiveness and love - yes. But empathy? No way.
n.
1-Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2-The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.
Based on what you post, it sounds like your husband makes a lot of excuses for his behavior and seems to still be playing the blame game. I'm glad that you can come here to vent. I have to ask, are you getting anything positive out of these sessions.
And empathy? I can't believe your husband asked for it. As a recovering addict, I don't want anyones pity for what I put myself through. Understanding, forgiveness and love - yes. But empathy? No way.
'Round and 'Round I Go....
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 478
Yes to Forgiveness but Forgiveness for yourself. Forgiveness for yourself for all of the things you feel guilty about and acceptance for your husband that he is an addict and will exhibit addict behavior. In the grand scheme...not being budget conscious is not the thing that would cause someone to do drugs. His addiction pulled him out there and the problems that follows with addiction compound on the already existing marital issues.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: To the North
Posts: 1,086
Warrens - thanks for the analogy -
Being a woman who gets PMS and controls it when there are months that it feels like it's going to explode, very clear picture! It would be unacceptable for me to just go off, even though what I have is "legit", doesn't excuse bad behavior! I would not find it acceptable from myself.
Thanks!!
Being a woman who gets PMS and controls it when there are months that it feels like it's going to explode, very clear picture! It would be unacceptable for me to just go off, even though what I have is "legit", doesn't excuse bad behavior! I would not find it acceptable from myself.
Thanks!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sunny, AZ
Posts: 60
There's a fine line between sympathy/empathy and excuses.
I'm thinking he's looking for the latter-- so what if you empathize? It doesn't mean he's off the hook, and everthing is okay.
Also, I don't know if we can truly empathize unless we've struggled with addiction ourselves. Not that this relieves them of responsibility-- they can't empathize with us, either. They don't understand the pain of watching their loved one destroy themselves with drugs/alcohol. They're too concerned with their own pain to worry about ours.
I'm thinking he's looking for the latter-- so what if you empathize? It doesn't mean he's off the hook, and everthing is okay.
Also, I don't know if we can truly empathize unless we've struggled with addiction ourselves. Not that this relieves them of responsibility-- they can't empathize with us, either. They don't understand the pain of watching their loved one destroy themselves with drugs/alcohol. They're too concerned with their own pain to worry about ours.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
I dunno, Drained. Do you really want to pursue couples counseling right now? I think I'd want me to work on me and him to work on him for about a year, perhaps even living apart. This sounds like pure hell to me. Sorry to come off so negative, but it sounds like waaay too much pressure on you to be his savior, when what YOU really need is to recover yourself from all the damage done.
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