Is it really fair to ask him change?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Is it really fair to ask him change?
This is what I'm struggling with. My BF was doing drugs when I met him. I didn't know exactly what or how much, because he hid it from me. And, since I had no prior experience with drugs, I didn't know the signs/symptoms. I just though his behavior was strange. He would smoke pot and drink beer openly around me, but I was ok with that. He was also selling drugs.
After a short while, he moved in with me. He had 3 roommates, and they were all moving away, I asked if he wanted to move in with me. It seemed like a good idea, since he stayed with me a lot anyway. He had looked at places to rent. I know now after reading so much about addict behavior that he knew I would ask him. He had me pegged from the moment he met me.
Right? Right.
After he moved in, the wierdness in his behavior peaked my curiosity, so I started doing some research. I learned that he was "nodding out" and that his pupils were constricting = opiates, possibly heroin. I never in a million years thought I would be around something like that. It just seemed rediculous, and so began the denial phase. I continued to observe. I picked up on the fact that he would go into the bathroom for a while and come out without flushing the toilet. Odd. So I searched the bathroom and found a crack pipe and some pills, which turned out to be methadone. It took me a while, but I eventually worked up the nerve to confront him about what I found. He told me the crack pipe was an old bad habit and threw it in the trash, and that the pills were for his stomach and put them in his shirt pocket. He assured me that he was not addicted to anything, that he was careful not to let that happen because he had been addicted to something before and would never be again. I believed him. I am pretty sure he dug the pipe out of the trash later.
I need to backtrack and tell you about the "for his stomach" part of the story. After moving in with me, he got sick. REALLY sick for days. It was the scariest thing I've ever seen. He was throwing up, writhing around on the floor, moaning and groaning, laid up in the bathtub the whole time. The whole house reeked of vomit. I thought he was going to die. I tried to take him to the hospital, but he wouldn't go. He said he had been many times and seen many doctors for his "stomach problem" and that they cannot help him; that he just has a bad stomach. I have since seen this many times and am pretty certain it is withdrawals from the opiates. He still, to this day, swears up and down that it's not from drugs. That that is just how he gets sick. The codie in me still wonders if maybe he really does have a stomach problem.
After finding the pipe and the pills, the detective phase began. I found myself searching everything, every nook and cranny in the house, his wallet, his phone. I was compulsive. I found things though, so it was like fuel to the fire. Once I found something, I just wanted to look more and find more. Eventually, I bacame very skilled at knowing what he happened to be on that day and where to look to confirm my suspicions.
Fast forward: He stopped selling drugs, stopped taking methadone, and stopped smoking crack. Amazing. Stopped all of that without a program. I was impressed by his strength. I believed that maybe he wasn't an addict, but only recreational user. Since he stopped all of that, I felt even more compelled to take care of him (pay all the bills, give him money if he needed it and he did because he quits jobs all of the time). He looked great. Healthy. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't completely clean. He still did a few things every once in a while, but not constantly like he had been.
Fast forward: We decide to have a baby. I find aluminum foil pipes hidden out back. I confront him. He lies about them, but gets rid of them. He starts taking pain killers, gets addicted. He starts selling again to help pay for pills along with borrowing money from me. I confront him and tell him that this lifestyle is not ok for me and especially for the baby. He says he is done with it. He is not. We move 7 hours away, because it is the only way I know how to pay for the birth of the baby. (We moved to where my office is) He becomes a complete terror because he has no hook-ups - Yelling, smashing things, driving erractically with me in the car - I was literally afraid he was going to hurt or kill me. All the while I am 7, 8, and 9 months pregnant. He was mad at me, because he couldn't get drugs. Because I told him I would be able to find weed, which I thought I would be able to.
Since we have had the baby, he has been passed-out drunk, driving drunk, had cocaine in the house, and been sick from taking pills that he thought were pain killers, actual pain killers, xanax, and of course there's the pot morning, noon, and night. Lord only knows what he's snuck in under the radar.
There is so much more to tell - so many lies, the pawning, the sneaking, but I am tired and I'm sure you are too.
All this to ask: Is it fair for me to ask him to change? To now to say I am not going to pay for EVERYTHING anymore? That he should contribute to the rent and bills and baby expenses. And that he is not allowed to do drugs and get drunk anymore? He makes me feel so guity. He says I knew that he did these things and that it's not fair for me to ask him to change. That I am trying to take his baby away from him and that I just used him as a sperm donor. He also told me that he shouldn't have to cut back his spending on drugs - that we didn't need to rent such an expensive house, that we could get by with 2 bedrooms instead of 3, that I didn't need such a nice car, that I could drive a cheaper one. (My car is not that expensive and neither is our house)
After a short while, he moved in with me. He had 3 roommates, and they were all moving away, I asked if he wanted to move in with me. It seemed like a good idea, since he stayed with me a lot anyway. He had looked at places to rent. I know now after reading so much about addict behavior that he knew I would ask him. He had me pegged from the moment he met me.
Right? Right.
After he moved in, the wierdness in his behavior peaked my curiosity, so I started doing some research. I learned that he was "nodding out" and that his pupils were constricting = opiates, possibly heroin. I never in a million years thought I would be around something like that. It just seemed rediculous, and so began the denial phase. I continued to observe. I picked up on the fact that he would go into the bathroom for a while and come out without flushing the toilet. Odd. So I searched the bathroom and found a crack pipe and some pills, which turned out to be methadone. It took me a while, but I eventually worked up the nerve to confront him about what I found. He told me the crack pipe was an old bad habit and threw it in the trash, and that the pills were for his stomach and put them in his shirt pocket. He assured me that he was not addicted to anything, that he was careful not to let that happen because he had been addicted to something before and would never be again. I believed him. I am pretty sure he dug the pipe out of the trash later.
I need to backtrack and tell you about the "for his stomach" part of the story. After moving in with me, he got sick. REALLY sick for days. It was the scariest thing I've ever seen. He was throwing up, writhing around on the floor, moaning and groaning, laid up in the bathtub the whole time. The whole house reeked of vomit. I thought he was going to die. I tried to take him to the hospital, but he wouldn't go. He said he had been many times and seen many doctors for his "stomach problem" and that they cannot help him; that he just has a bad stomach. I have since seen this many times and am pretty certain it is withdrawals from the opiates. He still, to this day, swears up and down that it's not from drugs. That that is just how he gets sick. The codie in me still wonders if maybe he really does have a stomach problem.
After finding the pipe and the pills, the detective phase began. I found myself searching everything, every nook and cranny in the house, his wallet, his phone. I was compulsive. I found things though, so it was like fuel to the fire. Once I found something, I just wanted to look more and find more. Eventually, I bacame very skilled at knowing what he happened to be on that day and where to look to confirm my suspicions.
Fast forward: He stopped selling drugs, stopped taking methadone, and stopped smoking crack. Amazing. Stopped all of that without a program. I was impressed by his strength. I believed that maybe he wasn't an addict, but only recreational user. Since he stopped all of that, I felt even more compelled to take care of him (pay all the bills, give him money if he needed it and he did because he quits jobs all of the time). He looked great. Healthy. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't completely clean. He still did a few things every once in a while, but not constantly like he had been.
Fast forward: We decide to have a baby. I find aluminum foil pipes hidden out back. I confront him. He lies about them, but gets rid of them. He starts taking pain killers, gets addicted. He starts selling again to help pay for pills along with borrowing money from me. I confront him and tell him that this lifestyle is not ok for me and especially for the baby. He says he is done with it. He is not. We move 7 hours away, because it is the only way I know how to pay for the birth of the baby. (We moved to where my office is) He becomes a complete terror because he has no hook-ups - Yelling, smashing things, driving erractically with me in the car - I was literally afraid he was going to hurt or kill me. All the while I am 7, 8, and 9 months pregnant. He was mad at me, because he couldn't get drugs. Because I told him I would be able to find weed, which I thought I would be able to.
Since we have had the baby, he has been passed-out drunk, driving drunk, had cocaine in the house, and been sick from taking pills that he thought were pain killers, actual pain killers, xanax, and of course there's the pot morning, noon, and night. Lord only knows what he's snuck in under the radar.
There is so much more to tell - so many lies, the pawning, the sneaking, but I am tired and I'm sure you are too.
All this to ask: Is it fair for me to ask him to change? To now to say I am not going to pay for EVERYTHING anymore? That he should contribute to the rent and bills and baby expenses. And that he is not allowed to do drugs and get drunk anymore? He makes me feel so guity. He says I knew that he did these things and that it's not fair for me to ask him to change. That I am trying to take his baby away from him and that I just used him as a sperm donor. He also told me that he shouldn't have to cut back his spending on drugs - that we didn't need to rent such an expensive house, that we could get by with 2 bedrooms instead of 3, that I didn't need such a nice car, that I could drive a cheaper one. (My car is not that expensive and neither is our house)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ft wayne IN
Posts: 14
oh my holy God 
you feel guilty about what? go file for child support, print him out a list of homeless shelters, missions, soup kitchens, and rehabs.
you are at risk of loosing your baby if child services finds out all of this is going on is it worth that to you?
ask him to change, ask yourself to change.
for goodness sakes the guy should be able to take care of you and his baby,
that is what love is.
what is keeping you in this relationship?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
You don't have to ask him to change but you can tell him YOU changed. Tell him that his life style no longer is acceptable to the life style you want for yourself and your child, period.
There is no negotiating with an active addict. There is no just a little drug use. You would be wasting your time and energy on attempting to negotiate anything with him. His brain is so diseased, so irrational in its thinking, you have to remember that and understand there is no normal talk or resolving issues with anyone in active addiction.
What do you want for yourself and your child?
There is no negotiating with an active addict. There is no just a little drug use. You would be wasting your time and energy on attempting to negotiate anything with him. His brain is so diseased, so irrational in its thinking, you have to remember that and understand there is no normal talk or resolving issues with anyone in active addiction.
What do you want for yourself and your child?
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
Hi and welcome,
You are not married to this man, correct? Run, run far far away from this man and run as fast as you can. You will not change this man, he has to want to change and it's obvious that he does not want to do that. You will be lucky to even get child support from someone like that. Please, keep you and your baby's safety and well being your top concern.
When I met my husband I was a lot like you, I knew nothing about drug use, I never ever did any kind of drugs other then smoke a little pot when I was younger and even that did not appeal to me. I knew my husband had a past drug problem but he assured me that he had kicked the habit and that he was living clean. Well here it is 18 months after I met him and he has relapsed again. Like you, I have learned to be a detective ( Nancy Drew has nothing on me ) I have learned how he manipulates me and I can tell immediatly if he is sober or if he is using. His drug addiction has turned me into a codependant control freak.
I can tell you this, even if he does want help and is working on recovery you will still have a long road ahead of you. I was relieved when my AH started going to meetings last week but I still do not trust him or believe anything that comes out of his mouth. If I was not married to this man he would not be in my life.
If you haven't already get yourself into ALanon or Naranon meetings. These meetings wont tell you how to change your boyfriend or give you the Do's and Don'ts on how to get him to stop using but they will give you the tools and insights on how to change yourself and how to stop allowing yourself to be a prisoner to his drug abuse.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do, and post here as often as you can, you will find so much awesome support here.
((((((hugs)))))))) please take care of yourself and your child.
You are not married to this man, correct? Run, run far far away from this man and run as fast as you can. You will not change this man, he has to want to change and it's obvious that he does not want to do that. You will be lucky to even get child support from someone like that. Please, keep you and your baby's safety and well being your top concern.
When I met my husband I was a lot like you, I knew nothing about drug use, I never ever did any kind of drugs other then smoke a little pot when I was younger and even that did not appeal to me. I knew my husband had a past drug problem but he assured me that he had kicked the habit and that he was living clean. Well here it is 18 months after I met him and he has relapsed again. Like you, I have learned to be a detective ( Nancy Drew has nothing on me ) I have learned how he manipulates me and I can tell immediatly if he is sober or if he is using. His drug addiction has turned me into a codependant control freak.
I can tell you this, even if he does want help and is working on recovery you will still have a long road ahead of you. I was relieved when my AH started going to meetings last week but I still do not trust him or believe anything that comes out of his mouth. If I was not married to this man he would not be in my life.
If you haven't already get yourself into ALanon or Naranon meetings. These meetings wont tell you how to change your boyfriend or give you the Do's and Don'ts on how to get him to stop using but they will give you the tools and insights on how to change yourself and how to stop allowing yourself to be a prisoner to his drug abuse.
Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do, and post here as often as you can, you will find so much awesome support here.
((((((hugs)))))))) please take care of yourself and your child.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
thank you so much, biocat, for this long and detailed post. your description of how someone is naively drawn into a relationship with a drug addict and the mental and emotional confusion that follows--not to mention the physical chaos--is classic and it will help many people who read it and see themselves.
his hustle is working. you are still there. you think he may be the rational one. you think you did something wrong.
so classic it makes me shudder.
you are not alone, biocat. stay connected to recovering people because you are going to need them to pull yourself out of this. an addict who isolates us always wins.
stay connected. keep posting. read the boards of recovering addicts, too. learn about addict thinking and addict behavior. and get started on your own recovery like your life depended on it. it does.
i hope your baby comes first. do take care.
his hustle is working. you are still there. you think he may be the rational one. you think you did something wrong.
so classic it makes me shudder.
you are not alone, biocat. stay connected to recovering people because you are going to need them to pull yourself out of this. an addict who isolates us always wins.
stay connected. keep posting. read the boards of recovering addicts, too. learn about addict thinking and addict behavior. and get started on your own recovery like your life depended on it. it does.
i hope your baby comes first. do take care.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
You don't need to ask him to change. The only power you have is to change yourself.
Start by setting your boundaries and then sticking to them, stop enabling an addict and get yourself and baby in a drug free home.
Determine your part in this by seeking your own recovery. Ask why you moved someone in and provided for him. Why you didn't seek love from an equal partner rather that one you could mother, fix and provide for, be lied to, manipulated, etc.
When you are in your own recovery, and put him out to take care of himself, he will either continue on his path of destructive addiction or he will determine the loss is too great and seek recovery. Either way he has to do this by his choice.
Stop the insanity for you and the baby.
Start by setting your boundaries and then sticking to them, stop enabling an addict and get yourself and baby in a drug free home.
Determine your part in this by seeking your own recovery. Ask why you moved someone in and provided for him. Why you didn't seek love from an equal partner rather that one you could mother, fix and provide for, be lied to, manipulated, etc.
When you are in your own recovery, and put him out to take care of himself, he will either continue on his path of destructive addiction or he will determine the loss is too great and seek recovery. Either way he has to do this by his choice.
Stop the insanity for you and the baby.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
thanks, bluejay. That one reason I took the time to write all of that down - so I could help others. I found that to be the most helpful thing for me when I first started researching and realizing what was happening.
My story is not unique. It is just as you said; a very classic description of a relationship with an addict. It's a very strange thing that I can see that, yet there is still a force tethering me to him. When I step back and look at it from a completely detached perspective, I know that he sized me up the minute he saw me. We must have big flashing signs on our foreheads that only addicts can see. =) He knew I was his to use up, that I would let him do it - not only let him, but insist on it; offer it to him. And, there is almost nothing left - almost all of my savings is gone, the credit card bill is high, I have nothing left emotionally to give. He has caused me to miss work so much it's a wonder that I still have my job. Yet, he still pushes for more.
They are amazing creatures really. Great cons. Great liars. He could be holding something in his hand that is blue and tell me so convincingly that it is green that I would probably believe it at least for a little while.
My story is not unique. It is just as you said; a very classic description of a relationship with an addict. It's a very strange thing that I can see that, yet there is still a force tethering me to him. When I step back and look at it from a completely detached perspective, I know that he sized me up the minute he saw me. We must have big flashing signs on our foreheads that only addicts can see. =) He knew I was his to use up, that I would let him do it - not only let him, but insist on it; offer it to him. And, there is almost nothing left - almost all of my savings is gone, the credit card bill is high, I have nothing left emotionally to give. He has caused me to miss work so much it's a wonder that I still have my job. Yet, he still pushes for more.
They are amazing creatures really. Great cons. Great liars. He could be holding something in his hand that is blue and tell me so convincingly that it is green that I would probably believe it at least for a little while.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 47
Biocat, I am sorry you are going through this. Your story is all too familiar to me. My ex also used to throw it in my face that I should have known he was an addict. He used to say it to me "You should have known I am a maintainance addict" (what that means, I don't really know). I think the flip side of these statements are really "what the F are you doing with someone like me?". Please take care of yourself, and take one day at a time.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Between the ocean and the mountains
Posts: 653
biocat,
drug addiction counselors say the very same thing. THEY are conned and hustled by the addict, if it is only them and the addict in the room. this is NOT YOU. it drives me crazy when people say "you should have known better."
the reason group confrontation works so well with addicts is because the addict is outnumbered. one on one, the addict has all the cards, and the disease makes his mind cunning as a leopard.
do NOT blame yourself for being pulled in.
just get well, sweetie.
drug addiction counselors say the very same thing. THEY are conned and hustled by the addict, if it is only them and the addict in the room. this is NOT YOU. it drives me crazy when people say "you should have known better."
the reason group confrontation works so well with addicts is because the addict is outnumbered. one on one, the addict has all the cards, and the disease makes his mind cunning as a leopard.
do NOT blame yourself for being pulled in.
just get well, sweetie.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
mskattie,
After getting the you should have known line the other day, I did finally ask what are you doing with me - you knew I wasn't ok with this behavior. The answer I got was "You used to be fun". I bet I was fun before I caught on. =)
After getting the you should have known line the other day, I did finally ask what are you doing with me - you knew I wasn't ok with this behavior. The answer I got was "You used to be fun". I bet I was fun before I caught on. =)
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 718
Wow. My AH is supposedly not using right now. That is because I told him I am done. I got the same thing.."you knew this when you married me. You stayed and now that I am all done with that you are leaving?" This is not my fault. This is going to sound nuts, but he is a nice guy. He is not physically abusive, but all this chaos for all these years has taken its toll. I am still finding it difficult to leave or have him leave though. Why??? I know some of you told me it was habit. Not a fun one though. Thoughts to help me move on???
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Hey biocat. Glad to see you posted. You know, I used to ask my self that same question. My "boyfriend" was my crack dealer. Oh he was the love of my life and yadda yadda yadda. I got pregnant. And I felt SO bad, asking him to change. I mean, he was addicted to crack! How could I be so selfish as to expect him to change now that he was going to be a father. He had been smoking crack for years, and I knew he was an addict when I hooked up with him.
But you know what? I realized, it didn't matter what he did. If he had wanted to, he could have just stepped up to the plate and changed without me asking! He was going to be a father! I shouldn't have even HAD to ask! He should have realized that good fathers don't deal dope and smoke crack. He should have changed because he loved his child. But he didn't.
I decided I wasn't going to wait around for him to change. I had to do some serious changing right away whether he decided to change or not. Someone had to grow up and take responsibility for the life that we created. It really didn't matter what he did. It only mattered what I did. So I changed. I'm a mom. He's in prison. But that was his choice - not to change. Thank God I stopped worrying about changing him and started worrying about changing myself.
But you know what? I realized, it didn't matter what he did. If he had wanted to, he could have just stepped up to the plate and changed without me asking! He was going to be a father! I shouldn't have even HAD to ask! He should have realized that good fathers don't deal dope and smoke crack. He should have changed because he loved his child. But he didn't.
I decided I wasn't going to wait around for him to change. I had to do some serious changing right away whether he decided to change or not. Someone had to grow up and take responsibility for the life that we created. It really didn't matter what he did. It only mattered what I did. So I changed. I'm a mom. He's in prison. But that was his choice - not to change. Thank God I stopped worrying about changing him and started worrying about changing myself.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by biocat 
mskattie,
After getting the you should have known line the other day, I did finally ask what are you doing with me - you knew I wasn't ok with this behavior. The answer I got was "You used to be fun". I bet I was fun before I caught on. =)
After getting the you should have known line the other day, I did finally ask what are you doing with me - you knew I wasn't ok with this behavior. The answer I got was "You used to be fun". I bet I was fun before I caught on. =)
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by biocat
He makes me feel so guity. He says I knew that he did these things and that it's not fair for me to ask him to change. That I am trying to take his baby away from him and that I just used him as a sperm donor. He also told me that he shouldn't have to cut back his spending on drugs - that we didn't need to ..........
My father was not an addict or alcoholic. He just did not like to work back when all men worked and most women stayed at home, with the kids. I grew up watching him manipulate my working mother to sustain his lifestyle. It taught me life lessons about men. Interestingly, my sister married 3 men just like our father. Go figure.
I read your story twice and both times concluded with a common question.
What's in it for you?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,307
Ding Ding Ding! Exactly........ what's in it for us?! I am going to figure that one out in the process here of being in recovery! What is in it for me - that all my dreams and ambitions are being squandered because of his lies and manipulation? His lack of staying true to his word! Well..... I'm working on those dreams and ambitions - and via hindsight it's all going to come to me~!
Out with the old and in with the new!!! THE NEW ME!!!!!!!!!
Out with the old and in with the new!!! THE NEW ME!!!!!!!!!
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