"Co-dependent no more"
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 186
"Co-dependent no more"
I was looking for a book today. A book of answers. My recovering AH has "the big book" and the "book of traditions" that seem to hold all sorts of wonderful answers for every question that he comes up with. I wanted a book of answers of my own. I have all these questions and feelings and I have no way to express them and wonder if they're even ok for me to express or will I be a bad person? Will I be hindering his recovery instead of helping it? Will I end up looking selfish?
So I wandered over to the self help section (which ironically enough is the only place in the entire bookstore that I have had people approach me and ask "Can I help you with something" - it's like a bad sitcom) and sat down in front of the "addictions/recovery" section. I started on the left and two books in, saw "co-dependent no more" I've heard about co-dependency on here before but always thought "that's not me, I don't need anyone, I've always been independent, I'm happier by myself than with others" but I figured I had time to kill so I'd read the intro.
Well I sat there in the middle of the bookstore, with tears threatening to fall because she was describing me! It wasn't someone that needed someone, it was....ME!
I just had to share that revelation
So I wandered over to the self help section (which ironically enough is the only place in the entire bookstore that I have had people approach me and ask "Can I help you with something" - it's like a bad sitcom) and sat down in front of the "addictions/recovery" section. I started on the left and two books in, saw "co-dependent no more" I've heard about co-dependency on here before but always thought "that's not me, I don't need anyone, I've always been independent, I'm happier by myself than with others" but I figured I had time to kill so I'd read the intro.
Well I sat there in the middle of the bookstore, with tears threatening to fall because she was describing me! It wasn't someone that needed someone, it was....ME!
I just had to share that revelation
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: phoenix arizona
Posts: 741
I have both of the books and continue to re-read sections often!
I also have 2 daily readers from Melody Beattie: The Language of Letting Go and More Language of Letting Go. Great stuff!!
My answers were found within myself. Hope you will find yours, too!
I also have 2 daily readers from Melody Beattie: The Language of Letting Go and More Language of Letting Go. Great stuff!!
My answers were found within myself. Hope you will find yours, too!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
Tryingtofly,
I will NEVER forget how affected I was by reading Codependent No More when I was in my 20's and my (now ex) husband was in rehab. I had no idea why I was so down and depressed until I read the "symptoms" or "checklist" of codependents. I remember laughing (albeit sad laughter) because I was at the very BOTTOM as far as that list went. But I also realized then that there was just one direction for me to go--UP! It's a wonderfully eye opening read, isn't it? And I love your sense of humor, girlie. The self-help section, hahaha!!! You sound like you still have some sass in you; that's good and I'll bet you are gonna be just fine
I will NEVER forget how affected I was by reading Codependent No More when I was in my 20's and my (now ex) husband was in rehab. I had no idea why I was so down and depressed until I read the "symptoms" or "checklist" of codependents. I remember laughing (albeit sad laughter) because I was at the very BOTTOM as far as that list went. But I also realized then that there was just one direction for me to go--UP! It's a wonderfully eye opening read, isn't it? And I love your sense of humor, girlie. The self-help section, hahaha!!! You sound like you still have some sass in you; that's good and I'll bet you are gonna be just fine
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 444
I've struggled with the idea of me being a codependent, also. Until last night I still wasn't 100% convinced I was. I've read "Co-dependent No More", but didn't really see myself. I was not the person who tried to fix things for other people (I was just the person who gets PO'd at people who don't fix themselves). But, knowing I was in a relationship with an alcoholic, and knowing that I was (am!) in a lot of pain, I have continued searching. I have been reading "Love is a Choice - Recovery for Codependent Relationships" and now I am starting to see where that label may actually fit me. They explain that codependents don't necessarily enable and fix things. That supressing anger and assuming the role of a martyr are also part of being codependent. This is the quote that gave me the light bulb moment:
"He can continue on his dependency freely because he has this guardian angel who faithfully sweeps away the dirty fallout. But, even worse, she must stoically deny her own pain, including a lot of anger she dare not admit exists. To express her true feelings would blunt the anesthetic--lessen the stoicism, reduce the satisfactions that martyrdom provides. And yet a basic human need is to have feelings validated. If they are unacknowledged, they go invalidated. The more she hangs tough, the more her own needs go unmet. Because she's not taking care of her emotional self, nor is he, her love tank is getting no refill at all. And it was probably low when she entered this union. She has no genuine love to give. The depression, the love deficit, the hunger all intensify her need for another fix. It locks her all the more tightly into the martyr role that gives her that fleeting high of achievement, usefulness, and self-assurance."
"He can continue on his dependency freely because he has this guardian angel who faithfully sweeps away the dirty fallout. But, even worse, she must stoically deny her own pain, including a lot of anger she dare not admit exists. To express her true feelings would blunt the anesthetic--lessen the stoicism, reduce the satisfactions that martyrdom provides. And yet a basic human need is to have feelings validated. If they are unacknowledged, they go invalidated. The more she hangs tough, the more her own needs go unmet. Because she's not taking care of her emotional self, nor is he, her love tank is getting no refill at all. And it was probably low when she entered this union. She has no genuine love to give. The depression, the love deficit, the hunger all intensify her need for another fix. It locks her all the more tightly into the martyr role that gives her that fleeting high of achievement, usefulness, and self-assurance."
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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I think I own every book that Melodie Beatty has written. Co Dependent No More is like the Official Codie Handbook for me. Every time I read it I learn something new!
When I first read about codependency, I was overwhelmed. All of the things about myself that I thought were good and admirable - taking care of people, helping out, being available for others in pain, etc etc -- suddenly seemed to be BAD things instead of good things! Doing a 4th Step in Al Anon helped me put things in balance. I can be helpful and compassionate, nurturing and kind... as long as I am NOT putting others needs constantly before my own. I need to be sure that I am doing the same kind and compassionate things for myself.... and I need to always be sure that I am not feeling someone else's feelings for her.
Great book , great topic!
When I first read about codependency, I was overwhelmed. All of the things about myself that I thought were good and admirable - taking care of people, helping out, being available for others in pain, etc etc -- suddenly seemed to be BAD things instead of good things! Doing a 4th Step in Al Anon helped me put things in balance. I can be helpful and compassionate, nurturing and kind... as long as I am NOT putting others needs constantly before my own. I need to be sure that I am doing the same kind and compassionate things for myself.... and I need to always be sure that I am not feeling someone else's feelings for her.
Great book , great topic!
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
We have been promoting Melody Beattie around here since the beginning of time. Now you know why. I thought she had been looking through my windows!
Note that she is an addict and you will see how closely we are all related. Our addiction is a person or the illusion of control instead of a substance.
Hugs!
Note that she is an addict and you will see how closely we are all related. Our addiction is a person or the illusion of control instead of a substance.
Hugs!
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Further up and further in!"---C.S. Lewis
Posts: 563
Thank you for your share
Originally Posted by nowinsituation 
This is the quote that gave me the light bulb moment:
"He can continue on his dependency freely because he has this guardian angel who faithfully sweeps away the dirty fallout. But, even worse, she must stoically deny her own pain, including a lot of anger she dare not admit exists. To express her true feelings would blunt the anesthetic--lessen the stoicism, reduce the satisfactions that martyrdom provides. And yet a basic human need is to have feelings validated. If they are unacknowledged, they go invalidated. The more she hangs tough, the more her own needs go unmet. Because she's not taking care of her emotional self, nor is he, her love tank is getting no refill at all. And it was probably low when she entered this union. She has no genuine love to give. The depression, the love deficit, the hunger all intensify her need for another fix. It locks her all the more tightly into the martyr role that gives her that fleeting high of achievement, usefulness, and self-assurance."
"He can continue on his dependency freely because he has this guardian angel who faithfully sweeps away the dirty fallout. But, even worse, she must stoically deny her own pain, including a lot of anger she dare not admit exists. To express her true feelings would blunt the anesthetic--lessen the stoicism, reduce the satisfactions that martyrdom provides. And yet a basic human need is to have feelings validated. If they are unacknowledged, they go invalidated. The more she hangs tough, the more her own needs go unmet. Because she's not taking care of her emotional self, nor is he, her love tank is getting no refill at all. And it was probably low when she entered this union. She has no genuine love to give. The depression, the love deficit, the hunger all intensify her need for another fix. It locks her all the more tightly into the martyr role that gives her that fleeting high of achievement, usefulness, and self-assurance."
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Further up and further in!"---C.S. Lewis
Posts: 563
I love Melody Beattie too...don't forget to check out 52 Weeks of Concious Contactby her.
I don't know where I would be without her example of recovery.
(((tryingtofly))) Thank you for sharing with us!
I don't know where I would be without her example of recovery.
(((tryingtofly))) Thank you for sharing with us!
I Finally Love My Life!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 648
I swear they wrote that book about me.
I crossed paths with CDNM at a time when I needed to hear the message in its pages in order to start acknowledging some things I needed to change in my life in order to be happy. I was ready to hear it's message and it was staring me in the face at the bookstore - I didn't even have to search for it.
Seeing what I needed to change was the first HUGE step to recovery from codependency and sped up the process immensely.
I crossed paths with CDNM at a time when I needed to hear the message in its pages in order to start acknowledging some things I needed to change in my life in order to be happy. I was ready to hear it's message and it was staring me in the face at the bookstore - I didn't even have to search for it.
Seeing what I needed to change was the first HUGE step to recovery from codependency and sped up the process immensely.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 25
Codependent No More showed up in my mailbox from my sister during a point where I was on the verge of separation with my wife. I too had that curled up on the floor crying moment. It was as if someone "understood". No, it was as if someone were telling me "Yes, it's okay to be happy, it's okay get what you want, it's okay to hate the fact that you feel you need to rescue people." Really, finally, it was someone saying it's okay to for me to decide what role I want to play in relationships rather than having them being defined for me.
I'm happy to say a year later, my relationship with my wife is much stronger because I'm much stronger.
I'm happy to say a year later, my relationship with my wife is much stronger because I'm much stronger.
Leap of Faith Survivor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
Originally Posted by JT
We have been promoting Melody Beattie around here since the beginning of time. Now you know why. I thought she had been looking through my windows!
Note that she is an addict and you will see how closely we are all related. Our addiction is a person or the illusion of control instead of a substance.
Hugs!
Note that she is an addict and you will see how closely we are all related. Our addiction is a person or the illusion of control instead of a substance.
Hugs!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by 49er_fan
It was as if someone "understood". No, it was as if someone were telling me "Yes, it's okay to be happy, it's okay get what you want, it's okay to hate the fact that you feel you need to rescue people." Really, finally, it was someone saying it's okay to for me to decide what role I want to play in relationships rather than having them being defined for me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 186
Thank you all for the replies. I have seen the book mentioned here, but I never thought it applied to me. I'm still struggling with it a bit because as Cats Pyjamas said, I still view taking care of others as a good thing...but I guess it's like chocolate - ok in moderation.
I'm proud to say that I colored my hair yesterday, did a facial and a manicure and am keeping the appt my mom made for me next week for a proper facial. (I love stuff like that)
I'm proud to say that I colored my hair yesterday, did a facial and a manicure and am keeping the appt my mom made for me next week for a proper facial. (I love stuff like that)
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
Originally Posted by grateful2b
For those interested, Melody tells the story of her journey as an alcoholic and drug addict in her book 'Playing It By Heart"
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
I only registered to this board yesterday and I have heard this book mentioned numerously. I will have to look into this, I would say I don't need him, but through reading a few excerpts, I just don't know.
I leave with my head held high, then I will hear from him that he is in a terrible way and I want to help, no strike that I NEED to help him. I guess if I understand how to turn this whole thing around, my efforts over the last 5 years have not been in vain.
I leave with my head held high, then I will hear from him that he is in a terrible way and I want to help, no strike that I NEED to help him. I guess if I understand how to turn this whole thing around, my efforts over the last 5 years have not been in vain.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
Trying to Fly,
I like what you said about moderation. It's been jumping out at me on a few other threads on this site as well, and I love those little "light bulb" moments!
When I was at my worst in sadness and depression, my daughter and my best friend were the ones who coaxed me back to the living. Their approach was like your mom's: the girly approach--hair, makeup, clothes, just treating myself special and like a lady. They took me shopping one day for a new wardrobe (I had lost soooo much weight through the stress) and "forced" me to try on clothes that actually fit my new "form". They reminded me continuously that if I looked good, I'd feel better. I thought it was all silly nonsense, but I went along because I loved them both and was probably doing it for THEM (hahaha!!) But they were so right in the end Your mom sounds like a wonderful and wise woman.
I like what you said about moderation. It's been jumping out at me on a few other threads on this site as well, and I love those little "light bulb" moments!
When I was at my worst in sadness and depression, my daughter and my best friend were the ones who coaxed me back to the living. Their approach was like your mom's: the girly approach--hair, makeup, clothes, just treating myself special and like a lady. They took me shopping one day for a new wardrobe (I had lost soooo much weight through the stress) and "forced" me to try on clothes that actually fit my new "form". They reminded me continuously that if I looked good, I'd feel better. I thought it was all silly nonsense, but I went along because I loved them both and was probably doing it for THEM (hahaha!!) But they were so right in the end
Your mom sounds like a wonderful and wise woman.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 186
SugarLilly - Some of the lines that jumped out at me were: "I saw people who felt responsible for the entire world, but they refused to take responsibility for leading and living their own lives"
"I saw people give until they were angry, exhausted, and emptied of everything. I saw some give until they gave up"
"With great precision and detail, they (codependents) could recite long lists of the addict's deeds and misdeeds: What he or she thought, felt, did and said; and what he or she didn't think, feel, do and say."
"I saw people who were hostile; they had felt so much hurt that hostility was their only defense against being crushed again. They were that angry because anyone who had tolerated what they had would be that angry. They were controlling because everything around and inside them was out of control."
"I saw people give until they were angry, exhausted, and emptied of everything. I saw some give until they gave up"
"With great precision and detail, they (codependents) could recite long lists of the addict's deeds and misdeeds: What he or she thought, felt, did and said; and what he or she didn't think, feel, do and say."
"I saw people who were hostile; they had felt so much hurt that hostility was their only defense against being crushed again. They were that angry because anyone who had tolerated what they had would be that angry. They were controlling because everything around and inside them was out of control."
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