When do you tell your A child to leave?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
When do you tell your A child to leave?
I'm seeing more connections with my son's progressive slide down. He's been at the latest cook job for about 3 weeks, and already not liking it, complaining, etc. I read on a thread of this same pattern with someone else's A that he began the complaining process due to knowing he was going to get fired. My son was fired from his last two employments. He cried so hard the first time, said he had never been fired before and it hurt so bad. I know it was because he was late too much and sleepy (from the oxycodones) and the last one for a disagreement with the boss (he says). So I'm seeing the outcome and just sad about its coming moment. I did give him a May 1 move out date the other day, but said I reserve the right to say today's the day much sooner if I see the need. I guess I was hoping for a "positive" exit rather than a "kick-out" one.
How awful will it be when I have to say this time is it and there is the door? Do I offer the rehab ticket first? The last time I suggested it he responded "Oh, so you'd spend tons of money on a rehab but not help me out?" And I said, no, I didn't say I'd pay for it, just that it was out there as a possible move in the right direction. He has no money, a few friends, and will have nothing to eat. He does have a car. He does have a job. Do I head this off at the pass and do it sooner than May or wait for him to become jobless again? That seems more backward somehow. Is there a RIGHT way to go here? I guess I already know that answer, but sh*t, it just really sucks. And it's really cold out there.
I don't want to continue letting him live here knowing what I read here is true, of the lies, the stealing, the blame, the arrests, the jails, to come. I'd like to skip that part! I don't even want to start it, can't stand any fighting anymore whatsoever. I got away from spiraling with my divorce from an alcoholic husband, and I prefer the calm of discussion, the rational over the absurd, simple peace in my home. I find myself in that situation of "waiting" for the bigger shoe to drop, but also knowing that it is coming. It's almost a surreal place to be. Like I can see the future with many bad possible outcomes, and I HAVE to be the f*****g catalyst for this perfect storm. Can I skip the next part and take this inevitable step now by asking him to go before he becomes a drooling idiot druggie? Is this one of those "you'll know when enough is enough" times or can I cut the connection ahead of schedule? I feel like I have to arm myself, and I know it's with the steps. Can anyone help me suit up with steps and trusts in HP?
How awful will it be when I have to say this time is it and there is the door? Do I offer the rehab ticket first? The last time I suggested it he responded "Oh, so you'd spend tons of money on a rehab but not help me out?" And I said, no, I didn't say I'd pay for it, just that it was out there as a possible move in the right direction. He has no money, a few friends, and will have nothing to eat. He does have a car. He does have a job. Do I head this off at the pass and do it sooner than May or wait for him to become jobless again? That seems more backward somehow. Is there a RIGHT way to go here? I guess I already know that answer, but sh*t, it just really sucks. And it's really cold out there.
I don't want to continue letting him live here knowing what I read here is true, of the lies, the stealing, the blame, the arrests, the jails, to come. I'd like to skip that part! I don't even want to start it, can't stand any fighting anymore whatsoever. I got away from spiraling with my divorce from an alcoholic husband, and I prefer the calm of discussion, the rational over the absurd, simple peace in my home. I find myself in that situation of "waiting" for the bigger shoe to drop, but also knowing that it is coming. It's almost a surreal place to be. Like I can see the future with many bad possible outcomes, and I HAVE to be the f*****g catalyst for this perfect storm. Can I skip the next part and take this inevitable step now by asking him to go before he becomes a drooling idiot druggie? Is this one of those "you'll know when enough is enough" times or can I cut the connection ahead of schedule? I feel like I have to arm myself, and I know it's with the steps. Can anyone help me suit up with steps and trusts in HP?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 692
Of course you know nobody can answers those questions but you. all I can do is share my own experience. For me, things were so bad by the time my husband and I realized our daughter even had a drug problem, there was little left to do but throw her out. she had stolen multiple times, lies constantly, manipulated, verbally abused us - and it all happened very fast. She was furious at us when we told her to leave and changed the locks. She got over it - when she needed us more than she hated us.
What you can try, maybe, is setting boundaries and limits in your home now. For example, does he pay any rent, take care of some of the household duties, clean up after himself? You can start imposing clear cut rules - and then if he doesn't follow them, you can have a very good reason to ask him to leave. My daughter failed utterly at all the rules and responsibilities, as most addicts will. And then we figured out why - so throwing her out was a no-brainer.
What you can try, maybe, is setting boundaries and limits in your home now. For example, does he pay any rent, take care of some of the household duties, clean up after himself? You can start imposing clear cut rules - and then if he doesn't follow them, you can have a very good reason to ask him to leave. My daughter failed utterly at all the rules and responsibilities, as most addicts will. And then we figured out why - so throwing her out was a no-brainer.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
I have no experience with kicking a child out of my home. My daughter's addiction started after she was out on her own. She can't come home, that is my boundary. I think that you will know when enough is enough. It sounds like you are getting close. Sending hugs and prayers. It must be hard. Marle
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 1,011
i had the same dilemma with not wanting to ask him to leave when he had no job, etc, so the second time around i got the ball rolling while he still had a job...
I've heard it said that the addict always can find somewhere to go. It really is amazing, but they are resourceful, even in their zombie state, when it comes to finding a place to put their head and finding money for getting high.... hope that helps...
sounds like you're doing pretty darn good in regards to being realistic about what is coming and what your son needs (pain, and lots of it) in order to find recovery.
I've heard it said that the addict always can find somewhere to go. It really is amazing, but they are resourceful, even in their zombie state, when it comes to finding a place to put their head and finding money for getting high.... hope that helps...
sounds like you're doing pretty darn good in regards to being realistic about what is coming and what your son needs (pain, and lots of it) in order to find recovery.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: At the zoo
Posts: 244
Only you know how much you can take and you'll know when you've reached your limit.
If he doesn't respect your boundaries, then maybe it's time.
If you can't stand the downward spiral first hand, then maybe it's time.
If you kick him out, maybe it'll be his time.
After detox and rehab my AD sure knew my boundary, you use, you're out.
She's still clean after 8 months.
If he doesn't respect your boundaries, then maybe it's time.
If you can't stand the downward spiral first hand, then maybe it's time.
If you kick him out, maybe it'll be his time.
After detox and rehab my AD sure knew my boundary, you use, you're out.
She's still clean after 8 months.
Power is not having to respond
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wabbit Hole
Posts: 1,923
It is the hardest question I ever had to ask myself. I went through my oldest son's whole life with him getting in trouble, then getting addicted to alcohol and drugs.
I was always there to "help" and to "enable".
One day, he and his brother got in BIG trouble for autobreaking, and both went to jail. The youngest was always in trouble too, but he hates drugs and alcohol, and believe this, this is his 3rd time. He is almost 28 and the last 10 years of his life has been in and out of jail for the same thing, autobreaking.
Anyway, they youngest was given 5 years. The oldest, it was his first big offence, so he got out in 9 months.
It changed him a little. He did excellent for 10 months But, before too long he was drugging worse than ever. He blew every cent he saved, 5000.00 during his sober time, in one week on drugs. I told him that was the final straw. I was not supporting a grown man who refused to take care of himself, dump his responsibility on me and expect me to help him any more. He would up going back to jail for 3 months because he was on probation and couldn't pass a pee test.
So, that got him out of my home. When he got out, I let him come home on strict conditions. 1. Living with me is temporary. He was to find other living arrangements in 30 days or risk being taken to Salvation Army.
2. Any drug or alcohol use would mean immediate eviction.
He found a half way house 30 minutes down the road. He's been there about 6 months and doing quite well.
Since he's been out of my home, I have had more peace and quiet than I ever have in my life. No more chaos, fear and theft.
I am getting too old to deal with it any more. I let go.
I do find that I have to let go daily. I love my children, but, I can't be responsible for their behavior any more.
I was always there to "help" and to "enable".
One day, he and his brother got in BIG trouble for autobreaking, and both went to jail. The youngest was always in trouble too, but he hates drugs and alcohol, and believe this, this is his 3rd time. He is almost 28 and the last 10 years of his life has been in and out of jail for the same thing, autobreaking.
Anyway, they youngest was given 5 years. The oldest, it was his first big offence, so he got out in 9 months.
It changed him a little. He did excellent for 10 months But, before too long he was drugging worse than ever. He blew every cent he saved, 5000.00 during his sober time, in one week on drugs. I told him that was the final straw. I was not supporting a grown man who refused to take care of himself, dump his responsibility on me and expect me to help him any more. He would up going back to jail for 3 months because he was on probation and couldn't pass a pee test.
So, that got him out of my home. When he got out, I let him come home on strict conditions. 1. Living with me is temporary. He was to find other living arrangements in 30 days or risk being taken to Salvation Army.
2. Any drug or alcohol use would mean immediate eviction.
He found a half way house 30 minutes down the road. He's been there about 6 months and doing quite well.
Since he's been out of my home, I have had more peace and quiet than I ever have in my life. No more chaos, fear and theft.
I am getting too old to deal with it any more. I let go.
I do find that I have to let go daily. I love my children, but, I can't be responsible for their behavior any more.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
We've had to kick out my stepdaughter twice. Both times it is because she didn't live up to her side of the agreement--she was supposed to be working or in school, had to clean up after herself--you know, basic stuff. It was a very hard thing for us to do. You have a right to live in a peaceful home! I know what you mean. I can't live with all that drama and nonsense either. We actually put the rules down on paper, and discussed it with her before she moved back in. Unfortunately, she just seems to do so much worse when living with us. She had to stay in her car for awhile. It was hard for us, but she had made home life almost impossible. I hope all goes well for you and your son.
Trying to get out of God's way
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Freeland Michigan
Posts: 60
My son, at 17, was breaking our rules, getting high, smashed up the car we helped him buy. We decided to make a list of rules...gave him the list (of course it included not getting high or drinking). This was a solution given to us by a counselor...to make leaving HIS (sons) decision, not ours. He calmly read through the rules, dropped them on the floor and said "I guess I'm outta here". He left that night and never lived full time with us again. But that's the way it had to be, he had quit school, and every job he had lasted till he got about the 3rd paycheck, then he would get "let go" for missing time, going in late, etc.
Just my experience with it - good luck, it's not an easy decision, and I'm sure there is no "cookie cutter" solution for everyone as everyone's situation is different.
Just my experience with it - good luck, it's not an easy decision, and I'm sure there is no "cookie cutter" solution for everyone as everyone's situation is different.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
Nagging, scolding and setting the rules has Never worked with my AS.
I had my son home for 6 mos. recently and eventually it just made his drugging/drinking easier. I had to ask myself are my actions supporting recovery or supporting addiction.
My efforts to control his choices failed and only perpetuated the very immaturity that I hoped he would overcome.
In my opinion there are few experiences that equal watching our sons being destroyed by addiction. But having him in my home was destroying me too.
Because of his addiction I now see it is impossible to have a close relationship with him.
It has taken me 5 yrs. to understand this is "what is" and my dreams for him will probably never come true. I have to make my own peace of mind a priority.
My son had to leave my home.
Once he lost yet another job, he avoided reality by sleeping all day and drinking all night.
Maybe one day he will make it a priority to get better. I have to get better now.
I offered the "rehab ticket" and the offer to pay for it. He snubbed it yet again.
We really need to reclaim our lives and stop being consumed with concerns about our addicted adult child. It keeps us narrowly focused on what is tragic. I want to start focusing on what is beautiful and nurture the things that give meaning and beauty to my life. That is my goal and to achieve it, just a few weeks ago, I decided my son had to leave eithier to an offer of rehab or out of my home if he refused the offer.
I have decided I must cherish this one life that is mine and to live it to the very best of my ability. My own life is really the only one I have to work with, the only one in my control. I am not turning my back on my son, just deciding what I can live with. I am taking the steps to preserve my own safety and peace of mind.
His Addiction has been holding me hostage too.
Just today I decided enough is enough. I will start breaking away from being codependent.
It sounds like you are thinking the same.
I had my son home for 6 mos. recently and eventually it just made his drugging/drinking easier. I had to ask myself are my actions supporting recovery or supporting addiction.
My efforts to control his choices failed and only perpetuated the very immaturity that I hoped he would overcome.
In my opinion there are few experiences that equal watching our sons being destroyed by addiction. But having him in my home was destroying me too.
Because of his addiction I now see it is impossible to have a close relationship with him.
It has taken me 5 yrs. to understand this is "what is" and my dreams for him will probably never come true. I have to make my own peace of mind a priority.
My son had to leave my home.
Once he lost yet another job, he avoided reality by sleeping all day and drinking all night.
Maybe one day he will make it a priority to get better. I have to get better now.
I offered the "rehab ticket" and the offer to pay for it. He snubbed it yet again.
We really need to reclaim our lives and stop being consumed with concerns about our addicted adult child. It keeps us narrowly focused on what is tragic. I want to start focusing on what is beautiful and nurture the things that give meaning and beauty to my life. That is my goal and to achieve it, just a few weeks ago, I decided my son had to leave eithier to an offer of rehab or out of my home if he refused the offer.
I have decided I must cherish this one life that is mine and to live it to the very best of my ability. My own life is really the only one I have to work with, the only one in my control. I am not turning my back on my son, just deciding what I can live with. I am taking the steps to preserve my own safety and peace of mind.
His Addiction has been holding me hostage too.
Just today I decided enough is enough. I will start breaking away from being codependent.
It sounds like you are thinking the same.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
I've been seeing an addiction therapist once a week for the last six weeks.
The most important things I learned were don't blindside them (they need to make choices) and if you can handle a middle ground, look for what works for you, not them.
I couldn't stand the mess my daughter spread throughout the house but kicking her out wasn't my cup of tea. As the therapist pointed out, giving her a shove into prostitution probably wasn't what I wanted. So he offered a compromise that worked for me.
I gave her a list of rules to follow and told her if she didn't follow them she'd lose the right to live inside our home. That I'd set up a cot in the garage, lock her out of the rest of the house. She could come in to take showers and eat but that was it. If she failed that, still didn't pick up after herself, the next step was a tent in the backyard. We have camping gear suitable for Alaska so I wasn't worried about her freezing.
She cleaned up everything while going through withdrawals. Thankfully for her, having a safe place to live was more important than the addiction. We had a feeling it would because she has anxiety and panic disorder.
She still doesn't have a house key or to the extra deadbolts we installed as a precaution. She doesn't know our security codes. She knows she has to earn that trust back one day at a time.
By the way, her addiction forced us to take a long look at the security of our home. When we viewed her as a potential thief, we realized how vulnerable we were to random intruders.
The most important things I learned were don't blindside them (they need to make choices) and if you can handle a middle ground, look for what works for you, not them.
I couldn't stand the mess my daughter spread throughout the house but kicking her out wasn't my cup of tea. As the therapist pointed out, giving her a shove into prostitution probably wasn't what I wanted. So he offered a compromise that worked for me.
I gave her a list of rules to follow and told her if she didn't follow them she'd lose the right to live inside our home. That I'd set up a cot in the garage, lock her out of the rest of the house. She could come in to take showers and eat but that was it. If she failed that, still didn't pick up after herself, the next step was a tent in the backyard. We have camping gear suitable for Alaska so I wasn't worried about her freezing.
She cleaned up everything while going through withdrawals. Thankfully for her, having a safe place to live was more important than the addiction. We had a feeling it would because she has anxiety and panic disorder.
She still doesn't have a house key or to the extra deadbolts we installed as a precaution. She doesn't know our security codes. She knows she has to earn that trust back one day at a time.
By the way, her addiction forced us to take a long look at the security of our home. When we viewed her as a potential thief, we realized how vulnerable we were to random intruders.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
The hardest thing I ever did was to make my son leave our home...and I had to do it many times because I kept giving more chances...that never once worked out.
When is the time right? For me it was when his addiction and behaviour was making me as sick as he was. It was when letting him live at home did nothing good and only brought his chaos indoors where we all had a front row seat.
I've often said if loving an addict could save them, not one of us would be here. I will add that if letting an addicted child move home could save them...very few parents would be here today.
My prayers go out that your son finds a better path soon.
Hugs
When is the time right? For me it was when his addiction and behaviour was making me as sick as he was. It was when letting him live at home did nothing good and only brought his chaos indoors where we all had a front row seat.
I've often said if loving an addict could save them, not one of us would be here. I will add that if letting an addicted child move home could save them...very few parents would be here today.
My prayers go out that your son finds a better path soon.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
I think I've done it all over the last ten years with my A son. I've laid down rules. I've tried kicking him out. Done an intervention and sent him to rehab. Hired him. Fired him. (I own a business.) Hired him again and fired him again. Tried to bail him out of jail (I couldn't even do that right according to him). I also could no longer stand to be in the front row seat watching the addiction take him.
There are no clear choices EXCEPT taking care of you first. That is the only way I find peace and feel empowered. Detachment. Wow. That's a tough one to get my arms around but I'm working on it.
I'm so sorry that you are in pain. As Spiritual Seeker said there are few experiences that equal watching your son (or daughter) being swallowed up by this disease.
gentle hugs to you as you deal with your boundaries and decisions.
There are no clear choices EXCEPT taking care of you first. That is the only way I find peace and feel empowered. Detachment. Wow. That's a tough one to get my arms around but I'm working on it.
I'm so sorry that you are in pain. As Spiritual Seeker said there are few experiences that equal watching your son (or daughter) being swallowed up by this disease.
gentle hugs to you as you deal with your boundaries and decisions.
Trying to get out of God's way
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Freeland Michigan
Posts: 60
Also wanted to say that what brought us to the decision to give my son an ultimatum was what the psyciatrist (sp) brought to our attention as "living as prisoners in our own home" - locking up all of our medicine (he even stole pain medications from his grandmother who lived here and was on hospice), locking up my purse at night, keeping our home office door locked, that is no way to live, and he helped us see that. And to this day, I don't think I've ever heard my son say "well they kicked me out of the house" because we all know it was his decision.
Leap of Faith Survivor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
peace, my heart goes out to you...I had to hold firm on the house rules with my AD..and it resulted in her leaving...and eventually living on the street for a spell...that was seven years ago....in the meantime, she has been making the progressive slide downward. I have said to her that she cannot come home unless she is a program .
I have come to realize what it means to be a flaming codie in recovery, and I am coming to terms with how that has defined my relationship in my life and with my AD. I have no choice but to choose my survival, and I honestly don't know at this point if I could have her here even if she was in treatment.The damage to our relationship has been so great. and that is such a trigger for me still. I have my recovery and she can, if she chooses, have hers...
There are no easy answers, my thoughts are with you, Peace,:ghug3
I have come to realize what it means to be a flaming codie in recovery, and I am coming to terms with how that has defined my relationship in my life and with my AD. I have no choice but to choose my survival, and I honestly don't know at this point if I could have her here even if she was in treatment.The damage to our relationship has been so great. and that is such a trigger for me still. I have my recovery and she can, if she chooses, have hers...
There are no easy answers, my thoughts are with you, Peace,:ghug3
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by Ann 
The hardest thing I ever did was to make my son leave our home...and I had to do it many times because I kept giving more chances...that never once worked out.
My therapist told me Wednesday I'm in a very good place right now, but just like the addict, I have to work on staying there.
remember to breathe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia pa
Posts: 1,280
I'm sorry you even have this delemia. My RAS knows that if he goes back to drugs he has to leave so I've never had to fight with him about this, it's just a rule, and to tell you the truth I'm very scared that one day I may have to pull that card.
I feel very bad for you for the termoil you must be facing. I'll keep you in my prayers that a solution comes to you.
I feel very bad for you for the termoil you must be facing. I'll keep you in my prayers that a solution comes to you.
Southern through and through
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In.....trouble :-)
Posts: 1,453
We came to an impasse in my home. AD was clean/sober but looking pretty much like she was well on her way to a relapse. All the signs were there. I saw the handwriting on the wall. She, thank God, decided she could no longer live in our "awful" home. You know, the home where she had a nice warm bed, a car to drive, a job, food provided and parents that loved her. 
So she decided she couldn't take it anymore, and left...going back to the addicted bf who she met right out of rehab. He wasn't working a program. She went back to him, with no job, no place to live, no money in her pocket, driving 500 miles, headed right toward where a huge hurricane was to strike ...and it did! Makes sense to me ...
Now I realize I did not have to kick her out, but it wasn't long before Mr Hangin' and I were going to have to set a boundary if she had not chose to leave. Boundaries are about what is good for US and aren't set to hopefully get our AD to do what we want. And her living with us at that time was not a good thing for either of us.
But the point of my story is this. What looked to be a horrible decision to me turned out to be what she needed to do to get her life back on track. The day she left you would have NEVER convinced me that anything good could come out of her going back to the situation she was chosing. But her HP had the plan. And I knew that I had to trust my HP on this. And thank my HP for my recovery that I gained from this board and from my face to face meetings. I had the courage to let her go. I knew I HAD to let her go so she could find her own way.
I know this isn't exactly what your question is about, but the point is our addicts are resourceful people. They land on their feet time and time again, when we, as mama's think our "poor little babies" aren't going to make it.
The way I've learned to suit up and trust my HP is by reading on this board and going to face to face meetings. I watched people who were making it...making the hard decisions to love their addicted person enough to let them go and figure out their lives. I learned I HAD to give my AD the dignity to live her life. Otherwise I was cheating her of learning what I so badly wanted for her. I wanted her to learn responsibilty. And as long as I kept trying to save her, protect her, she was never going to learn responsibility.
I hope some of this helps. I do understand your pain and anguish.
Hugs,
Hangin' In
So she decided she couldn't take it anymore, and left...going back to the addicted bf who she met right out of rehab. He wasn't working a program. She went back to him, with no job, no place to live, no money in her pocket, driving 500 miles, headed right toward where a huge hurricane was to strike ...and it did! Makes sense to me ...
Now I realize I did not have to kick her out, but it wasn't long before Mr Hangin' and I were going to have to set a boundary if she had not chose to leave. Boundaries are about what is good for US and aren't set to hopefully get our AD to do what we want. And her living with us at that time was not a good thing for either of us.
But the point of my story is this. What looked to be a horrible decision to me turned out to be what she needed to do to get her life back on track. The day she left you would have NEVER convinced me that anything good could come out of her going back to the situation she was chosing. But her HP had the plan. And I knew that I had to trust my HP on this. And thank my HP for my recovery that I gained from this board and from my face to face meetings. I had the courage to let her go. I knew I HAD to let her go so she could find her own way.
I know this isn't exactly what your question is about, but the point is our addicts are resourceful people. They land on their feet time and time again, when we, as mama's think our "poor little babies" aren't going to make it.
The way I've learned to suit up and trust my HP is by reading on this board and going to face to face meetings. I watched people who were making it...making the hard decisions to love their addicted person enough to let them go and figure out their lives. I learned I HAD to give my AD the dignity to live her life. Otherwise I was cheating her of learning what I so badly wanted for her. I wanted her to learn responsibilty. And as long as I kept trying to save her, protect her, she was never going to learn responsibility.
I hope some of this helps. I do understand your pain and anguish.
Hugs,
Hangin' In
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
We did it with my son at 18, just after graduation and with my daughter at 17, while a junior in high school.
In both cases, we waited so long because the pain of having them on the streets was greater than the pain of allowing them to stay in our home.... but once that balanced out and then tipped in the other direction. Then we were ready.
Do what you can live with.
((hugs))
In both cases, we waited so long because the pain of having them on the streets was greater than the pain of allowing them to stay in our home.... but once that balanced out and then tipped in the other direction. Then we were ready.
Do what you can live with.
((hugs))
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