the **** has completely hit the fan

Old 02-17-2008, 09:33 AM
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the **** has completely hit the fan

Please see my previous post for a background on this situation. I wrote my parents stating how I feel and they responded to me with nothing but anger and more sick controlling issues.

Here is my parents' response to my letter:

Dear_______________,
I didn't read your note, ___________, and frankly am not
interested in carrying on some sort of family feud.
To me this issue is quite simple; you help your family members when
they need help. You never turn your back on them. You don't make moral
judgements or consider whether or not it's convienient to help.
Any other considerations are simply excuses.
So, it's up to you. If it is more important for you to be "right"
than to love your family then continue in the current vein. Otherwise, be
happy you were able to help and move on.
It wouldn't hurt, however, to apologize to your Mom who has never done
anything but love you with all of her heart. You decide if your pride
is more important than her.
Dad


P.S. Hi Katie,

This is your mom. You completely misunderstood my point. My heart is broken. Do not contact me anymore.


------------------------------------------------

What the f***?!!!

I am separating myself completely from them. This is what I wrote back:

Hi Mom and Dad,

Dad, since you did not read my note, you did not see that I did apologize to mom for hanging up. Therefore I am not going to apologize because I have nothing to apologize for at this point. I am taking this stand with Jane because as adults this is the decision we have made together. If you cannot see that and wish to isolate yourselves from me, my husband, and us kids, then that is your choice.

Jane is asking me to tell you in this email that she thoroughly appreciated the help, and that she never wanted our help in the first place. My husband and I were nothing but helpful and good natured to her because WE wanted to do it.

I'm sorry you cannot understand my point. If this means we cannot have a relationship for awhile, than so be it.


-----------------------------------------------------

Both my parents are insane. I want nothing to do with them. How can I stop feeling so guilty? I know I am right.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:44 AM
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the best advise I got on this topic was "let go and see what happens..............."
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:56 AM
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Sweetie it is not a matter of being 'right' or 'wrong.'

Your parents are still in the 'throes' of codependency when it comes to your sister. Some day, don't know when, they will finally reach their breaking point.

For now, they just do not understand, that by not 'helping' your sister it is helping your sister.

Please do not feel guilty, I know that is hard. You have your own family to worry about and care for, a home, husband and children. Those are YOUR PRIORITIES.

I would suggest however, to spare some time and get to some Alanon meetings. They will help you so much, not only in dealing with your sister, but in setting boundaries, and sticking to them and not feeling guilty about it.

Just know that your parents are going through a very hard time right now, and haven't reached the point of "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH."

Please keep posting and venting and let us know how YOU are doing, we really do care a lot.

Love and hugs,
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by laurie6781 View Post
Sweetie it is not a matter of being 'right' or 'wrong.'

Your parents are still in the 'throes' of codependency when it comes to your sister. Some day, don't know when, they will finally reach their breaking point.

For now, they just do not understand, that by not 'helping' your sister it is helping your sister.

Please do not feel guilty, I know that is hard. You have your own family to worry about and care for, a home, husband and children. Those are YOUR PRIORITIES.

I would suggest however, to spare some time and get to some Alanon meetings. They will help you so much, not only in dealing with your sister, but in setting boundaries, and sticking to them and not feeling guilty about it.

Just know that your parents are going through a very hard time right now, and haven't reached the point of "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH."

Please keep posting and venting and let us know how YOU are doing, we really do care a lot.

Love and hugs,
Um, yeah, except the teams are evidently now sisters vs. parents?
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:13 AM
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Um, yeah, except the teams are evidently now sisters vs. parents?
No it's not. The parents are still enabling the 'active' sister. Fed-up refuses to enable her sister and her parents are made at her.

Sometimes this happens.

Fed-up Kermit gave very good advice. Now it is time to 'step back.' Take care of you and your family.

You will get through this!!!!

Love and hugs,
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by laurie6781 View Post
No it's not. The parents are still enabling the 'active' sister. Fed-up refuses to enable her sister and her parents are made at her.

Sometimes this happens.

Fed-up Kermit gave very good advice. Now it is time to 'step back.' Take care of you and your family.

You will get through this!!!!

Love and hugs,
Really fed up, I was in a position similar to yours before I found this forum, my parents basically expected me to baby sit my brother, and I did it, because I live near him I'd go round when my mum phoned crying that something was wrong (there were lots of different things from time to time, obviously) I'd check on him almost every day, I'd report back to my parents about what was going on, where I'd seen him etc. Then something sort of snapped inside me and I just thought what about me? I was ill, depressed, my hair even fell out in a big patch, I started looking for help and ended up here. I realised I have to look after me and my kids, my brother is old enough to look after himself if he wants to, A couple of tearful conversations with my parents and I explained that I'm not turning my back on my brother but looking after my self and my own family is a priority. We didn't speak for a while, and as my parents look after my children when I'm working it was difficult, but it passed. They now understand there are some things I will do and some things I wont do regarding my brother, it was hard getting to this point, but I got here, even now it isn't always easy saying no to my parents, they arent in good health and it sort of tugs my heartstrings refusing to do something they think will ease their minds, but I stick to my guns, and to be honest I actually think they respect me more for doing that, and I also think a little bit of it is rubbing off on them, I see them letting go a little bit.

Look after you first and do what you think is right.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by good_luck View Post
Um, yeah, except the teams are evidently now sisters vs. parents?

I don;t see any "teams" at all. Its not a battle. Its people making choices, good and bad. Its healthy to step away form the madness and to stop enabling. If the parent choose to enable their daughter, that's their choice. They don't seem to see that it doesn't help but many people have a hard time understanding that. The sister seems to understand and be serious about recovery. That's agreat thing. Really_fed_up is making healthy choices for herself and her family. That is a wonderful thing.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:02 AM
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I am still remembering what your parents actually said to you. That was verbal/emotional abuse....period....IMHO.

You DO NOT under any circumstances....no matter how codependent your parents are....have to take this abuse.

You have tried to appeal to your parents rationally....that didn't work....you tried to set up boundaries for yourself...those were catagorically ignored.

Boundaries only work on people who recognize those boundaries. People who are capable of being rational. Your parents refuse to acknowlege your boundaries. What will you do when your boundaries are not honored? What are the consequences?
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:07 AM
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The idea that letting an addict feel the pain of their addiction IS A SIGN OF LOVE is foreign to a lot of people. I no longer try to explain it to anyone else.

It is possible to maintain enough contact with your parents if that's what you want to do for your own peace of mind - i.e. dropping a note once in a while. I'd avoid engaging in the right or wrong argument, too. As an adult, I am permitted to lead the life I want as long as I do no harm. I don't see where you are harming anyone when you choose to live the best possible life for yourself.

((()))
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:20 AM
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I try to follow my big sister's advice when I'm in a panic-- let it go for a day and see how you feel tomorrow morning. Usually the "letter" I want to send or the "call" I want to make is either no longer necessary or done with less emotion and more thought. Kind of like taking NO action (for a day at least) is still an ACTION.

When I don't follow her wise suggestion, I usually regret it!
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:21 AM
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So they are showing you that you should never turn your back on family by turing their backs on you. Cute.

Ditto on what Kerm said.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by WantsOut View Post
So they are showing you that you should never turn your back on family by turing their backs on you. Cute.

Ditto on what Kerm said.
I agree with WantsOut's take on this.

You tried to set boundaries in this madness....you are no longer useful...so you are shut out.

If I set boundaries or decide I deserve better than to be used as a pawn, certain relatives decide they are "allergic" to me.

So be it.

I now have a healthy "allergy" to toxic people...no matter who they may be.

I also agree with the person who typed that "the best thing you can do for the relationship, sometimes, IS to let it go...."
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:20 PM
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Angry thanks to everyone

Thank you to everyone who has posted messages of support and advice. I am seeking out a therapist to talk about my guilt issues with my parents. I feel like I need to.

I'm not talking to my parents right now; I took Jane to her residential hotel today, but it was horrible; the room had not been cleaned and there was dried throw up / blood in the sink and mirrors with cocaine remnants on this table. The door didn't lock and there wasn't a smoke alarm or a fire escape out the window, and this room was on the third floor. There were these creepy drugged out people hanging around in the hallway and asking which room she was moving into. The tenant who was living there before was basically taken to the hospital for a drug overdose and the room wasn't cleaned. I could not leave Jane there. It was unsanitary and gave me a horrible, horrible feeling. I know this is Jane's fault, and she is responsible for this mess, but I could not leave her there.

So now it is back to square one. My parents won't talk to me, think I am a horrible person and Jane is sleeping on my couch. She is going to investigate another residential hotel tomorrow. But I'm drained, tired, and f****** sick of this ****.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:24 AM
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Go to meetings if you can, they'll get over it.

ngaire



Originally Posted by really_fed_up View Post
Please see my previous post for a background on this situation. I wrote my parents stating how I feel and they responded to me with nothing but anger and more sick controlling issues.

Here is my parents' response to my letter:

Dear_______________,
I didn't read your note, ___________, and frankly am not
interested in carrying on some sort of family feud.
To me this issue is quite simple; you help your family members when
they need help. You never turn your back on them. You don't make moral
judgements or consider whether or not it's convienient to help.
Any other considerations are simply excuses.
So, it's up to you. If it is more important for you to be "right"
than to love your family then continue in the current vein. Otherwise, be
happy you were able to help and move on.
It wouldn't hurt, however, to apologize to your Mom who has never done
anything but love you with all of her heart. You decide if your pride
is more important than her.
Dad


P.S. Hi Katie,

This is your mom. You completely misunderstood my point. My heart is broken. Do not contact me anymore.


------------------------------------------------

What the f***?!!!

I am separating myself completely from them. This is what I wrote back:

Hi Mom and Dad,

Dad, since you did not read my note, you did not see that I did apologize to mom for hanging up. Therefore I am not going to apologize because I have nothing to apologize for at this point. I am taking this stand with Jane because as adults this is the decision we have made together. If you cannot see that and wish to isolate yourselves from me, my husband, and us kids, then that is your choice.

Jane is asking me to tell you in this email that she thoroughly appreciated the help, and that she never wanted our help in the first place. My husband and I were nothing but helpful and good natured to her because WE wanted to do it.

I'm sorry you cannot understand my point. If this means we cannot have a relationship for awhile, than so be it.


-----------------------------------------------------

Both my parents are insane. I want nothing to do with them. How can I stop feeling so guilty? I know I am right.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by really_fed_up View Post
I am seeking out a therapist to talk about my guilt issues with my parents. I feel like I need to.
This is great! I think this will help so much! Good for you doing what you need to do to help yourself. Out of this therapy...you will be able to work out those boundaries. Don't forget to shop around for the therapist that is right for you...the relationship with your therapist is most important...that way you will want to go...and the progress you make has more of a lasting chance.

Here is a link I found useful:

How to find a good therapist

"So now it is back to square one. My parents won't talk to me, think I am a horrible person and Jane is sleeping on my couch. She is going to investigate another residential hotel tomorrow. But I'm drained, tired, and f****** sick of this ****."

I know this doesn't help...but this is the problem with your parents "calling your bluff". It is important not to attempt to set a boundary unless you are completely willing to follow through with what you say/the consequences. You gave in to your parents...the hotel didn't work out...and now "Jane" is your problem...the only problem with giving in is that the hotel didn't work out. Hindsight is 20/20...and I bet you wish you hadn't caved.

NO MATTER!

A friend on this board told me once, "you know you aren't really starting over at square one." You have learned so much these past few days! You are getting stronger even though you are in the midst of a fierce struggle with yourself. If you have felt that " ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" then you are right where you should be.

You don't have to do things perfectly! Recovery is a process. Sometimes a sloppy, messy process. Sometimes we go forward and back. This is normal.

I tried to work things out with my dysfunctional family for 2yrs....I tried to reason with them...be the best daughter, aunt, sister-in-law, you name it.

After 2yrs dedicated to THEM instead of my husband, child and I ...I woke up! I realized that they would just USE me indefinitely. I was a pawn...if I didn't function in the realm of their sickness....they didn't have a use for me. I realized that it wasn't possible to set boundaries with them...boundaries, to them, were something to be laughed and scoffed at.

I couldn't wait around for THEM to change. I HAD TO CHANGE.

All it took, was for hubby and I to detach, and start to ONLY make decisions that were in OUR BEST INTERESTS.

Hubby got a new job and we moved away.

If my relatives recover or choose to start a recovery program....If I can build a trusting relationship with them in future, I will. But I wouldn't count on it.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a moratorium. For example, hubby and I have decided that, we don't want to be visited by any of them for at least 6 months--a year. During this time we will be working our recovery and building up some protective boundaries.

The best part is NOT being in close proximity to them. Not being near the chaos. As it stands right now...we are OUT OF SIGHT...OUT OF MIND..we are not THERE for them to use...so they no longer need us. I realize, not everyone can move away....but if you keep to your boundaries...set only those you plan to keep...then the calls for you to run errands will significantly decrease. For hubby and I, we knew we would have to move.

If you find that you can reason with your family...then....do the best you can....others have given you good advice on this. Learn more about boundaries anyway.

The only problem with being patient and giving your parents the "benefit of the doubt" is that you may NOT be able to REASON with them. In order for a relationship to be healthy, IMHO, both sides have to be reasonable and ABLE to see their own needs as well as others needs...and ACT OUT OF LOVE. The presumption of boundaries is that the other party is REASONABLE. What if the party refuses to honor/see your boundaries?

But if you come to find out...that they REFUSE to listen to you...act on the behalf of yourself an hubby....that is a good thing to do either way.

Hang in there with your recovery! Awareness is half the battle! You are doing GREAT!!!!!!!
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:00 AM
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I'm sorry the place didn't work out.

Personally, I would give my sister a firm time limit for her to find a place and let her know that if she hadn't found a place by X day, you would take her to the nearest homeless shelter. I would fear that I would become the fall back place to stay if I were not very firm on this.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:10 AM
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There is always Salvation Army while your sister waits to get into treatment.

And Salvation Army has a GREAT program, and it's FREE.

I am glad you are going to seek counseling. You might also try Alanon. You will certainly find people there who have been through what you are going through now, and can be a big help!!!!

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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