joyfulnoiz

Hi All-
I'm in a situtation right now , not sure what is the proper response. so I will ask what you all think
AH is passed out in his vehicle in the driveway. i saw him there when i went out with my dogs. it is going to get down to about 25 F. tonight. Should I leave him there?
my al-anon side says yes- consequences of his behaviour
but part of me is wondering if it is safe, hypothermia with a high BAC and all.
what would you do?
cant reach my friends from alanon.
thanks

LaTeeDa

My first reaction would be to leave him there, too. What if you hadn't seen him? Maybe go throw a blanket over him if it will ease your guilt.......

L

NYC_Chick

My al-anon side says no also, but my lawyer side says you might have a duty to help him. I would go with lawyer side because if he freezes to death you may have a legal problem. If it makes you feel better, think of it as keeping your butt out of trouble due to his disease.

Tomorrow - make sure you tell him this was out of what could be perceived as a legal obligation. This will also help bring you back to reality and minimize your guilt over "enabling" him.

joyfulnoiz

Thanks La- especially for the "what if you hadnt seen him."
i was thinking that its not unusual for him to be someplace where i dont know where he is.i have learned not to worry or try to find him because thats one of those no control things.
so i think i will just leave him there.

what a terrible thing it is to see someone end up in such a state.

Daisy30

Are you plannignto stay up for a while?

I would leave him. He may stir and get into the house on his own w/i the next few hours. Maybe if he doesn't get out of the car by the time you are ready to go to bed then wake him???

joyfulnoiz

well, nyc, you have a good point there. i guess because i did see him, i would be obligated to intervene. not making me happy.:codiepolice

joyfulnoiz

wow, you guys are wonderful!! i was torn about what to do. i will just wait a bit and see what happens. if hes still out there when i'm ready for bed i'll go see .
you know, my HP has been showing me a way and making things much more clear lately.
tonight is just another one of those times.

NYC_Chick

Yes, the law can be so fun!

You also have this conversation recorded on your computer, so proof you are aware.

I know you don't want to, and I wouldn't either, BUT, you also don't want to be questioned about anything if something happens. DA to judge: "She was angry, look at all her posts we subpoeaned from this website." Sounds like a good motive to any jury.

Sorry, but look out for you this respect. Let him stay passed out in the car during the summer.

denny57

This 12 step stuff can get complicated LOL - I was going to suggest calling the police and reporting someone passed out in their car. But that's creating a crisis. Yikes.

darkness_falls

My first instinct too would be to leave him alone. Then my next thought would be what if something terrible happens? Then I'd have to live with that feeling. I say leave him for a bit too and throw a blanket on before you go to sleep.

shakarris

He is not going to freeze to death .. it is not like he is in 10 feet of snow with 100 km winds and no protection... he is in a car..

sorry i would leave him there - when he gets too cold he will wake up

jmho

shakarris

NYC_Chick

Not trying to argue, I'm just saying...

"Although alcohol has some caloric value, it is actually a detriment to a person in cold weather. Physiologically, alcohol creates peripheral vessel dilation which results in the rapid loss of body heat." If a person becomes cold, peripheral circulation clamps down to reduce heat loss. Alcohol inhibits this protective response, increasing the risk of exposure.

Individuals who become seriously chilled should warm up gradually. Sudden exposure to heat can produce rapid dilation of the peripheral vessels, and blood pressure will fall. Alcohol may enhance a sudden vascular dilation of this type and increase the severity of the blood pressure drop.

If the blood pressure drop is sudden and severe enough, there will not be enough blood returning to the heart to give it anything to pump. If the heart is deprived, little or no blood can be forced back through the circulatory system to the heart. If no blood comes back, the heart will not have anything to pump out on the next stroke.

DA's will pull this and much much more if something happens to him.

I would hate to decide just as much as the rest of you, but al-anon aside... she has KNOWLEDGE that he's out in potential severe cold.

hope2bhappy

If I'm guilty for knowingly leaving my AH passed out in a car in 25 degree weather (which could be terminal, according to you), am I also guilty for knowingly allowing my AH to continue drinking (which is terminal)? Goodness! Where does our responsibility begin and end? Perhaps Joyful will get a jury of her peers -- Alanon members.

Leave him alone, and he'll come home, dragging his drunk butt behind him.

NYC_Chick

Circular reasoning won't work with cops, the DA, a judge or jury. I may not have all the proper answers, but I'm also not willing to read something like this and not tell someone what could happen if it is found she has knowledge of a potentially dangerous situation and does nothing. As far as criminal cases go, battered wife syndrome doesn't get many women off, so I'm not so sure al-anon teachings would work well either.

It's not illegal allow someone to go get plastered on a legal substance, but it is to knowingly fail to act if you know someone "could be" in peril.

joyfulnoiz

Well, thanks to all of you, this has been very thought provoking.
drunk butt did drag in behind the drunk a few minutes ago as happy said. but now i am left with the knowledge that i wasted another evening being entangled in some stupid drama.
also now having to go check that he is not setting the bed on fire smoking. and spend tomorrow keeping him from letting out the dogs and "forgetting" to watch them, as he leaves the woodstove burning out of control AGAIN (after i had to get the fire company out last week to put out a chimney fire)
it is like living with a 6 foot toddler.

NYC_Chick

Glad to hear it!

I'll refrain from any further legal observations on this site : )

joyfulnoiz

nyc,thank you so much for your input! it helped me to clarify in my mind where does the enabling stop and the normal care for another human being start. its like if someone were drunk and they fell into deep water, i would pull them out. if the fell in a puddle, i would leave them there.
also, got me thinking about the phrase"a danger to themselves or others"
legal ramifications are something that we always have to consider and i thank you for sharing.

tryingtoheal

Joyful - what ended up happening?

DesertEyes

Hey there Chick Your opinions and observations are always welcomed. The whole point to this website is that each one of us can learn from the other's experience. Your point about personal responsibility over a drunk that might freeze is well taken. It's those difficult situations that alcoholism forces upon us that make websites like this one so valuable.

Since you are making legal observations, you might want to consider one in return. You may want to put a disclaimer in your signature to the effect that you are _not_ giving legal advice, and that you are simply providing your personal opinion. There are thousands of people coming thru this website every day, and it would be trivially easy for one of those folks to accidentally confuse your statements for profesional advice.

Mike

NYC_Chick

DesertEyes:

Thanks! I will keep that in mind and add the disclaimer "the opinions expressed above are merely opinions and not intended to be legal advice."

I will still refrain from any legal observations on this site in the future : )