karmakoma

I spent a long time doing exactly that. I was lied to, manipulated and belittled and I excused it all away for some years by saying "he's great when he's sober", "if only he'd stop drinking (and deal with his childhood, his military career and his two failed marriages), then everything will be perfect" and "but I love him".

Why? Because I fell for the BS. Because I couldn't survive without drama. Because I thought I was his saviour. Because I was arrogant enough to think that I was the answer to his prayers. Because I was scared to live my life and living his for him was less "risky".

In hindsight, the drinking wasn't the issue. I could have lived with it had I had a partner alongside me, with all the emotional and practical realities that entails. But I didn't. As LTD says, I was in a relationship with someone whose behaviour I would not accept from an unknown checkout girl in the store. That I accepted it from someone in the role of lover, protector, companion said everything about me, rather than him. My "soft place to fall" was hard, harmful and soul-destroying.

What behavior are you accepting that would otherwise warrant a letter to the Target CEO? And do you know why?

Miss Pink

AWESOME post!!!

Much thanks!!:ghug3

queenteree

See with my AH I know it is the booze. He was a mean, nasty drunk many years ago. He got sober for over 14 years and was the most loving, gentle, sweetest, most understand, selfless, kindest husband and father anyone has ever known. Real sweetheart of a guy, not a temper, nothing. Relapsed - back to mean, drunk, sober for 98 days, great guy, relapsed - back to mean and nasty again.

karmakoma

But it's not the drinking that causes you the issue, is it? If he drank and wasn't mean and nasty, would you be leaving? If he was mean and nasty and didn't drink, would you be leaving?

hbb

For me, i thought it was completely the booze that was the issue and i thought i could handle that. But like yours, he didn't deal with his childhood, family issues, abuse, exgf OR the drinking. When he quit (use the term loosely) he was just as bad if not worse, that was who he was regardless of alcohol. Now i'm starting to see that if he wants to live that way, that's fine, i don't and know now that i do deserve better, we all do thanks for the post!

karmakoma

Why was drinking an issue?

hbb

He would disappear for day/nights and when i did find or get in touch with him he was so drunk and nasty. He would pick fights, drive drunk and always had an excuse why he was late. The one night that really sticks out for me was his last night drinking. He went to the bar at 3 p.m. and by 1 a.m. i found him leaving the bar, had called him like 20 times, called where i thought he was and eventually found him and told him we were done. BUT shortly after that, when he got sober it = dry for him. I even thought at one point which was worse drunk or sober....

karmakoma

Oh, I see.

I would call those behaviors. And I wouldn't give a rat's you-know whether they were caused by drink or drugs or an overindulgence of pineapple. Still unacceptable.

hbb

COMPLETELY AGREE with you, but at the time i was ignoring the red flags, the disrespect and blamed it on the drinking because i didn't know any better, thought it was a "bad time" he was going through as he would say. Now, i feel like my guard is up in all directions.

LaTeeDa

Okay, so let's say I'm living with someone who is nice and sweet and then one day he goes out a buys a pair of cowboy boots. Whenever he puts those boots on, he is mean and nasty. And even though I've told him I don't like the way he gets in those boots, he still insists on wearing them regularly.

Is it the boots that are the problem, or the way he behaves when he wears them? And am I better off to decide what I want to do in regards to the behavior, or should I hide the boots, or wait and hope he decides to stop wearing them?

L

karmakoma

Excellent analogy, LTD!!! Previously, I would have hidden the boots, thrown them in the trash, replaced them with a different kind of boots, persuaded him to go places where cowboy boots weren't appropriate, tried them on myself on occasion.....

(Although I confess to behaving differently in certain footwear. But I understand that it's a positive change )

Mair

Good post, you got me thinking now. If he was a nice drunk? It would probably have been easier but ugh the slurring, the smell and the financial problems, no still wouldnt be happy. But like you said in the post, why oh why did i put up with it for so long

"Why? Because I fell for the BS. Because I couldn't survive without drama. Because I thought I was his saviour. Because I was arrogant enough to think that I was the answer to his prayers. Because I was scared to live my life and living his for him was less "risky".

Yep this is it. Mix in some love and stir for a recipe for disaster.

I have been in this situation with my x husband he was a diabetic, same thing happend there I would make his life easier, I would make sure that he would be ok, I would worry about him and molly codle him he never asked me to do these things. But me the hero the smothering codependant that i am took over his life and his illness so i could feel worthy and needed.

So unless I address MY issues I could very well find myself in the same situation again.

Mair

SerenitySeaker

I spent a long time doing exactly that. I was lied to, manipulated and belittled and I excused it all away for some years by saying "he's great when he's sober", "if only he'd stop drinking (and deal with his childhood, his military career and his two failed marriages), then everything will be perfect" and "but I love him".

Why? Because I fell for the BS. Because I couldn't survive without drama. Because I thought I was his saviour. Because I was arrogant enough to think that I was the answer to his prayers. Because I was scared to live my life and living his for him was less "risky".

In hindsight, the drinking wasn't the issue. I could have lived with it had I had a partner alongside me, with all the emotional and practical realities that entails. But I didn't. As LTD says, I was in a relationship with someone whose behaviour I would not accept from an unknown checkout girl in the store. That I accepted it from someone in the role of lover, protector, companion said everything about me, rather than him. My "soft place to fall" was hard, harmful and soul-destroying.

What behavior are you accepting that would otherwise warrant a letter to the Target CEO? And do you know why?

This literally brought tears to my eyes as I saw myself in your words. Thank You.

Barbara52

For me it was both the behaviors and the drinking. Because of my being an ACOA, drunkeness is not acceptble to me. The various behaviors (laziness, unemployment for 2 years with no real job hunting, self pity, emotional distance, emotional abuse of his children etc.) were the primary reason our marriage died. It took me a while to accept that his behavior was totally unacceptable and would never change. Once I reached that acceptance, I made my plans to leave and then did so.

LaTeeDa

Add to that insisting that he go to a 28-day cowboy boot rehab and attending CBA. (Cowboy Boots Anonymous)

L

Shivaya

Karmakoma and everyone else whose posted replies on this thread:

You would not believe the humungous light bulb that just turned on my head! I have been saying FOREVER that my husband is a good man "when he's not drunk". He is not a mean drunk. He only drinks at home. He does not go out to bars (at least not every night). He is not unfaithful to me (as far as I know). He is not physically abusive to me. Well, let's give this man a big pat on the shoulder for being a good man.

My AH keeps on saying to me, "you don't like me whether I'm drunk or not". And I have strongly denied this every time he has said it. But now I'm thinking, oh....he may be right. He is who he is, and I'm blaming the alcohol for most of our problems, when the truth is.....it's not. Oh man, I have some thinking to do. I do know that when he "moderates" his drinking, or doesn't drink at all (this is rare, except for the last 3 weeks because we had an argument), I am happy with him, and I enjoy his company, he interacts with the children and I, and he is there physically as well as emotionally. When he's drinking, he's there physically, but 0% emotionally.

Can you just feel my confusion? I am so confused. My AH tried to manipulate me today (via email), and honestly I don't think I would have caught on had I not been educating myself these last few weeks. This is what took place: My husband voluntarily left our home a week ago, to stay in a relatives condo for the entire work week, and to get professional help (don't know if he's actually done this). He is coming home Friday night. My son has baseball practice on Saturday and my AH usually helps with coaching on Sat. My daughter has a b-day party to go to on Sunday. I told my AH that I would like to have AN entire day by myself (I am a SAHM) this weekend. He says, well, I won't help coach on Saturday, so you can take this whole day. And you can take the kids to the party on Sunday. After reading it several times, this is what I figured out: If he were to get his way, I would be gone all day on Saturday, he would not help out with Coaching his son in baseball (I thought he loved baseball, but he was so quick to give this up) on Saturday, but would be with our daughter. Then on Sunday, I would be gone with the kids probably 1/2 the day, and he would be at home.

Hello? What does this say? I do not want to be with my wife at all, please, please, leave for as long as you like. I want to be able to drink and do what I want to do.

Am I crazy? Is there such a thing as reading into things too much? I guess it's easier to analyze when it's in writing and you can read it over and over, rather than in a conversation.

I'm very new here, but I think that the amount of knowledge I've gained since I've been reading, has really opened my eyes to my AH's behavior. I remember reading the word "manipulate" in so many of the posts, and not really understanding what it's like to be manipulated, that is, until this afternoon. It was very clear, that my AH was trying to manipulate the situation so that I would be out of the house pretty much all weekend.

If I were to even try and point this fact out to him, I know exactly what he'd say "You're crazy. You think too much".

So sorry for the terribly long post. I did go to Alanon today, and I'm learning so much.

Thanks for your support/comments.

Shivaya

Barbara52

Yup, there is. I have no way of knowing whether this is te case in this particular case of course since I don't know either of you. But, expecially when we are trying to figure out the whole mess we find ourselves in with an A, it is possible to read too much into something.

It could be manipulation in a number of different ways. Trying to suck up by giving you want you said you wanted, time by yourself. Trying to show you how little you matter to him. God knows what else. But it could also just be him doing what you said you wanted, giving you time to yourself.

Miss Pink

I say burn the boots.

Unless the cowboy is still in 'em....

in that case....throw em in the ocean.

cagefree

great thread karma!

I was recently trying to explain to someone exactly what alcoholism was and wound up realizing I was talking more about behaviour than actual embibing of booze. It was never the physical act of drinking that turned me off to XABF, but how he acted when he wasn't drinking - the fact that after being sober for 6 months he still treated people like tools and not human beings - unacceptable.

ARealLady

From everything I've read about alcoholism, I don't think you can separate the imbibing of alcohol from the blocks of time when the A is not imbibing (I was going to write "when the A is sober" but that's not right). An A who is not working a recovery programme but who is not drinking is a dry drunk and white-knuckling it until the next drink.

Personally, I don't think that an A can be a healthy partner within a relationship until the A has embraced sobriety and worked a programme for at least a year (big Melody Beattie fan here!).

XABF did not treat me badly when he was drinking. He was drinking because he didn't know how to treat himself well when he wasn't drinking.

ARL