BayAreaPhoenix

I have been reading, and listening at my meetings, etc. There's been something niggling in the back of my mind and Mooselip's thread about the maturity (or lack thereof) regarding her son, brought it foreward. The responses have been that most all addicts are "young" in their maturity, someone (sorry I forget who at the moment) mentioned going to rehab the first time with her daughter and the counselors and Drs. commenting they're "all the same age", another comment about going to parent/patient meeting and all ages acted like 8th graders. What if they don't start using until they're older - like their 40's. Get in an accident, or have a surgery, etc. that gets them on to opiates (as my AH tries to tell me), or somehow they get turned on to whatever DOC later in life. Do they revert? How does that work - anyone know?

cece

IMHO of course, I'm not a psychologist,
But I believe it stunts maturity and slows emotional growth. So that would seem to affect anyone who is at a stage in their life where that is taking place. I'm 45 years old and am still growing daily in maturity both emotionally and spiritually. But maybe growth is more obvious at the age when a person goes from child to adult. (?)
I honestly don't know about reversal, But when a person makes decisions without thinking of the long term affects, or without thinking of its affect on those they are responsible for, then that seems like a typical immature decision to me. so... but again a very non-educated opinion.
I know i am the type of person that likes to "Know the whys" of it all. But I have found that I need to be focusing on the "whys" of my actions more than the addicts. Thats their job. We can't cure them, control them, but we also can't educate them with any knowledge we did learn about them, but we can use it for our understanding and growth.:ghug

mooselips

codeinewife,
What an interesting concept.
IMO, if you start with having a mature, responsible adult in their 40's, I can't see them reverting to a adolescent mindset.

Although, while using, I'm not sure if their brain would be thinking as a 40 year old adult. Ya think?

Good question.

BayAreaPhoenix

I find this an interesting thought. It's not really about me or my current situation - which is what it is, and I agree Cece, my energy is really about me and my actions and my learning and growing. This is more of a general question and nothing to do with any personal growth for me. There are just some things, that to me, I find curious, and Mooselip's thread touched it off - so I thought, while we're sort of in that vein...

LiveLife

My XABF started using when he was 10. His maturity with respect to what I would call productive life skills is minimal .... however his maturity with respect to "street smarts," survival, manipulation, fighting, lying, stealing, etc. is equivalent to someone who has lived many lives. His mother was an addict and at 10 years old, my XABF managed to pay the bills and care for his mother and two siblings. I can tell you this ... drugs or no drugs, in a survival situation, there is no one I'd rather be with.

Maybe it's more a product of their expriences, and the definition of "maturity." Those who are sober practice different life skills on a daily basis and we "mature" in those skills.

raerae6

maybe it also has something to do with a person's propensity toward "sensation seeking" and "risk taking" behaviors? i guess that wouldn't explain maturity, unless these things are at odds with maturity....just thinking out loud...

bluejay6

hi c-d,

i think addiction at any age compels the addict to think only of himself, to rationalize poor behavior, and to lie when cornered (or not even when cornered...all the time, about anything. )

so, in active addiction, an adolescent mind is definitely making the choices.

for myself, i believe that addicts who have plunged into the darkness of addiction and then through enormous growth and effort, found their way out are WAY AHEAD of many people who never even sipped a beer. for me, it is like a boy going off to war and returning a man. there aren't many RA's out there like that, but the ones who are need not ever again carry that label of "immature adolescent." they are heroes.

i like that you are seeking information of all kinds about addiction and how it changes people. all the books say to educate yourself, and not just about you, about them, too.
so...thanks for making me think today!

LiveLife

I hope I'm not going too far off topic, but this thread reminds me about when my XABF was sober. Although he only had a 9th grade education and had used drugs most of his 40 years of life, when he was sober he was truly amazing.

We had our own business. I have seen him read people and out negotiate many college educated individuals including successful large business owners. His wit and ability to think outside the box and devise elegant solutions to seemingly impossible problems was truely an art. His photographic memory and depth of knowledge and ability in our trade was unmatched in our market. We used to ask ourselves why his theoretically drug burned out brain could function in such an amazing way. We wondered what he would have/could have done without drugs in his life.

Now that I'm thinking about it, to me it seems that it's the drug use that causes the behavioral regression, but it also enables the abuser to develop skills that are difficult to teach. Maybe that's why friends/family members so often feel that the addict is "ten steps ahead."

BayAreaPhoenix

You're right bluejay - I guess this is a question towards personal growth too now that you point it out - we are supposed to educate ourselves about what addiction is/means/etc. Those of us without addiction issues of our own can probably understand only so much, but there have been posts by RA here that seem just as much groping to understand also. If my AH isn't completely lying (and who knows - right?), he started with the codeine (opiate) in 2000 after orthoscopic knee surgery. Now, he has always been, during our time together, emotionally immature I would call it. It was one of the things I was going to "fix" (LOL I Know - WHAT WAS I THINKING?) But, none-the-less - question is: Is it because he has always been emotionally immature which helped him become addicted to opiates, or has he been using pain-killers fairly successfully (functioning addict) since whenever? I will never know... Doesn't change a thing - just makes me stop and wonder - not just about him, but like Mooselip's son and others. I'm not sure if I have a theory yet to put forth. Maybe after I have more time under my belt in my own recovery and learning process, I might. Right now, no real theory of my own.

bluejay6

i read a great deal about ADD because of a family member. and the books by dr. edward hallowell are considered the classics, and in those there is a description of the ADD brain as a "race car brain", "thinking outside the box" brain, "can't stand to be bored" brain.....people with ADD are/can be absolutely brilliant and also absolutely addicted. the treatment for ADD is typically stimulants, which help them feel normal and slow down that brain. hallowell suggests that many coke addicts, for example, may have reached for drugs in adolescence as a way to self-medicate undiagnosed ADD.

sometimes it's not just addiction that is the problem. but until the addict is clean and sober, the underlying disorders can't be addressed.

the truth will set us free!

SoberAndy

The counselors at my step-daughter's treatment center repeatedly told us that kids stop maturing when they start using. Here's a guess about why. I remember that my teen years were a period of great emotion, crying on the shoulder of friends over break-ups and other problems and them crying on my shoulder. It was a time of learning to deal with my own emotions and those of others.

Addicts anesthetize those emotions with drugs. They don't learn to deal with their emotions or those of others. They just suppress them with chemicals.

There's a song I hear a lot on the radio lately with the words, "Darlin Don't Fear What You Don't Really Know" that pisses me off because I'm pretty sure it's about heroin. If you don't think so, check out the singer's MySpace page. Among the words are:

Those words pretty well sum up the way that addicts deal with emotion.

mooselips

I can remember when my oldest as was in his single digits, and he would wake in the middle of the night, with terrible nightmares. He said things would go SO FAST, and he couldn't stop it.

He was on Ritalin from the age of 7 to 14, because I was threatened by the school, Ritalin, or expulsion. From what I saw, Ritalin stunted his emotional growth. He had a very dull affect while on that prescribed drug.
Although he was off the drug on weekends, or school vacations.


This thread has a lot of thought processes involved in it...doesn't it?