Uncertain Me

Hi all --

With the new year, I thought I'd start a new thread; the old one is filled with wonderful information and support, but I think I'm changing my focus this year -- from just my relationship to ME!

I am realizing that I need to work much harder on my codependence issues. I posted on my other thread how I thought I was doing better, but this past week has felt like I'm all the way back to square one. While Cynay rightly pointed out that I don't need to put up with my husband "taking my inventory," of course I haven't found the strength to stop asking him and he has made the point of telling me how he hasn't seen any change in me and my actions with him. (I'm now the reason he's leaving - my pushing is pushing him out... right! ) Ok, so maybe I haven't changed my actions/codie responses with him, but that means all the more that I need to find the way to turn my focus away from him and back on me.

I wondered if any of you deal with that feeling of being lost - of losing one's self in the midst of interacting with others and so feeling invisible? I know that part of my issue is that I don't draw boundaries well - if at all - and then I feel like I have completely given over all ability to make choices to the other person. I end up pushing and throwing myself in the other person's face - usually only figuratively - in an attempt to "be seen." I hate that feeling of being lost.

How do you find a way to take confidence in your own worth? On one level, I am almost ashamed that I can't figure this out; how long have I been working here? Still, I think that expectation that I can figure it out comes from my codependent response. What I want, I think, is a magic button to push when I begin to feel lost, when I begin to fade - or think I am fading - in the eyes of whomever I'm wanting to value me. I know that part of this whole thing comes from my childhood: my mom was depressed and had a fiery, unpredictable anger and my dad would emotionally leave when mom went off; me as oldest took on the task of saving mom/protecting everyone/stopping the explosions and in the midst would lose my personal boundary. I wouldn't be seen by Mom unless I was completely in her face - physically so - and that led me to marrying my emotionally-unavailable husband (with whom I repeat this pursuing/invasive tendency) to now.

Ok, enough self-analysis; please forgive repetition if I have it here - I forget what I've explained and what I haven't. I'm feeling overwhelmed and lost today. Any insights from all of you wise ones?

Too many gray skies and quiet days.

Uncertain Me

DesertEyes

Hey there UM

First off, no need to apologize for repeating yourself. We all do that, it's part of the whole "growth process". 'course, some of us repeat ourselves cuz we are just plain flaky, but I would never admit to that

ummm.... perhaps _today_ you haven't found the strength. But you will, just not yet.

Being "seen" means to have our needs recognized, our contributions acknowledged, and our worth appreciated. In turn, that means that two things have to happen:

1- _I_ have to know what my needs are, where my contributions are usesful, and what my worth it.

2- The other person has to have their own feces amalgamated to where they can give me that recognition that I deserve.

For me, growing in this area had to happen in steps. First a little growth in me, then a little growth in the people I choose as friends. Repeat, repeat until done.

What was brought to my attention by a sponsor is that I am _very_ good at #1, but only for other people. As a result of being an ACoA, I am _great_ at recognizing other people's needs, contributions and worth. I am a fabulous friend to everybody else, except to me.

I shared about this a while back, but between the last server crash and my noggin' not being up to speed I can't find that old post, so let me see if I can do it again.

A little "technique" that goes around the rooms of ACoA is to imagine that somebody dropped off a child on your doorstep. A seven year old who has gone thru exactly the same life you have, who has exactly the same fears you have. Now you must "raise" this child to be a healthy, happy adult. Wherever you go, you must take this child, you mush ensure that when yukky people emotionally attack this child you step in and protect the child. You must provide for the childs needs, spend extra time letting the child know you appreciate their contributions, and constantly show with word and actions how much the child is worth to you.

It does sound silly, but it actually works. This little trick has made a world of difference to me. When I go to the grocery store, I make it _fun_ for myself. I'll do thing like juggle the paper towels, just for kicks. 'cept don't ask Cynay, cuz she things I'm a lousy juggler. * lol *

When I get home from work I take _one_ minute to give myself a few "pats on the back" for the good things I did. For working hard, for keeping the bills paid, for having a good job, for taking care of my little condo. When people give me compliments I accept them with a complete sentence: "Thank you", and I tell my "child within" that those compliments are valid, and that he earned them.

Going to a doctors visit is something I _hate_. And I average about one a week. I _so_ don't want to go, so badly want to ignore it and pretend it's not there. But if I had a child you better believe I'd be taking that kid to the doc and making durn sure the kid takes his meds and follows directions. So I do it for the "child within", instead of for me.

Whadya know, after doing that "child within" thing for a little while I started feeling better about _me_. And I started finding better friends, which helped me feel better about me, and on and on.

Today I have the best friends I could ever dream of. Wonderful people that think the world of me. I am proud of what I have acomplished in my life, have developed zero tolerance for people that are hurtful to me, and am enjoying every single day like I never had before. All from working a "12 step program" of recovery, doing silly stuff like that "child within" and a couple good shrinks.

My life couldn't possibly be better. well.... ok.... I still _suck_ at juggling, but I'm not admiting that in public

Mike

Uncertain Me

Mike -
Thanks for the extensive reply. I am not so good at #1, and while I have some friends who are beautiful and wonderful and love and affirm me, it seems that I keep picking or inheriting for my close family/relationships people who do not qualify for #2.

Intellectually I know what you mean about the taking care of the little child; I love my sons and can easily see them in that role. Emotionally ... well, I haven't quite gotten there yet. I will keep trying, though; what you describe - that it is easier to do these things for that imaginary "little Mike" than for the actual you - makes sense to me. I have to keep remembering to forgive all of the "little UMe's" in the process, though; I hold those younger selves responsible for knowing what I expect me to know - that the 4 year old who found Mom had left her alone with her 2 year old sister "should" be strong enough to fix that situation; that the 16 year old who found herself being date raped "should" have known better and kept better control of the situation; that the 22 year old whose younger sister died from suicide "should" have been able to know what that sister needed and saved her from herself. I am not only great at knowing what I "should" do, I am great at holding all of those younger selves responsible for knowing it too...

So ... First forgive and excuse my younger selves for being "only" whatever age they were and knowing "only" what they knew then. And then, I need to readopt those children and care for them... Am I getting this right?
I can say it - challenge is to actually believe and feel it!

Still, thanks for all of what you wrote, Mike.

It does help to keep these things in view and it helps to know I'm not alone or going crazy because I'm feeling invisible.

UM

GingerM

As usual, Mike said things quite eloquently.

I did this from day 1 in my relationships, both romantic and platonic. It finally took hitting my bottom to start re-evaluating, like you're doing, why I kept doing this same behavior.

For me, I had to make a clean break. For 3 years I lived as a social hermit. I went to work, came home alone, and began forcing myself to sit within my own skin in a place where I had no one else. I didn't date, I rarely saw friends. At the end of the three years I had found out many things about myself - I *was* capable of taking care of myself. I *didn't* need someone else to feel complete. I *was* worthy. Not only that, but I also, as a side lesson, learned that I actually not only did well on my own, but far surpassed it by doing *better* on my own than I did when I was with someone else. I was more stable financially, I was more stable emotionally, I was happier.

I didn't have any recovery tools at the time. The internet had not gone public yet. I had no idea what an ACoA was. I had no idea what AlAnon was. I only knew that to break away from the codie relationships I'd been "lather rinse repeat"ing all my life, I needed to prove to myself that I didn't _have to have_ someone else in my life.

It took time. It was scary. For the first year, I was sure I was a failure. But then things started changing and good things started happening in my life. I was no longer afraid to go home after work to an empty house - I looked forward to it. Even now, I can feel times when I need to be utterly alone so I can emotionally regroup.

It's good to have others who will affirm you, but when it comes right down to it, the only person' whose opinion of you matters is...you. You will need to prove to yourself that you are worth it, that you are capable, that you are, indeed, the master of your own destiny.

One of the things I figured out early on is that I didn't want other people running my life, and to do that, I needed to ACT on my life instead of REacting to it. So I started treating everyone as though they were people I'd just met in a grocery store. I would stop and ask myself "If this person wasn't X in my life (X = parent, old friend, coworker), how would I react to what they just said?" Using that framework, I discovered that I really didn't care about how my coworkers marriage was flailing or how my ex was taking care of himself. If he was someone in a grocery store, I wouldn't give a rip whether their marriage was working for them or not, and I certainly wouldn't ask a complete stranger that question.

I had to disengage from *everyone* in my life to be able to figure out how to take care of me. I have no idea if AlAnon discusses this or not, but it worked well for me. The only person I continued to have 'normal' relations with was my sister (she and I both are making our way through recovery, although our paths are quite different).

I'm not saying you should do this, I'm simply stating that this worked really well for me. If it works for you, great, if you don't think it would work for you, then don't use it - it may actually be bad for you in your situation, and I wouldn't want to think that anything I say makes you make decisions which are unhealthy for you.

GingerM

Reading your response to Mike, I'd like to offer a framework that is used in cognitive behavioral therapy in response to the 'shoulds' you describe all your inner children as having to have done.

There are no 'shoulds' in life. Repeating to make sure it's clear: there are *no* "shoulds" in life.

There are "wishes", "wants" and "be in my best interest ifs", but no shoulds. Each time you feel yourself starting to say "I should have...", try reframing it.

"Should" implies expectation of a certain outcome. Wish, want, would be in my best interest does not imply an outcome, it is simply a statement of feeling. Do you wish your 22 year old you would have known what to do? I'm sure you do. But wishing is not the same as *having to* (the implication of 'should' is 'have to').

I wish my parents didn't drink (but they do)
I wish I had gone into recovery sooner (but I didn't know, and couldn't have known)
I want to be the best me I can be (only time will tell)
It would be in my best interest to not let others behavior control my own (but sometimes I slip up and it happens)

Do you see how the reframing gives you wiggle room to be wrong where 'shoulds' give you no room to be human or make mistakes?

This is one of the best tools I've gotten in recovery, and even my husband (who came from a relatively emotionally healthy family) uses it when he starts putting too much pressure on himself at work (or, sometimes, at home).

We're all only human, we make mistakes, we don't see things when we think, in hindsight, that we "should" have. Reframing those 'shoulds' gives you wiggle room to be human.

Growing

Great Thread...Wow...

Uncertain Me

I knew that you all would come with great insights! Thank you everyone.

Ginger -

I often - these days - think that your solution of isolation would be wonderful. I don't know how I could make it happen - kids at home, maybe-ex insisting on being around with them, etc. - but I can see how it would simplify the focus issue: if there's no one else around, I'd have to focus on me and my strengths/weaknesses,etc. It may be that in time, I will find my way to that experience, and I hope then that I can be strong and find all of the positives.

Your explanation of 'shoulds' is great. My statement about all of my "lil ones" shoulds is that I have held them as "shoulds" when I need to let them become wishes and forgiveness. I am slowly - with the help of a good shrink - finding my way with that forgiveness. It's hard, though. I thought today about the idea of holding close a young me and I found all of my self-doubts coming up. I know my sons are great, but sometimes I think it's in spite of me and not because of me. (can you tell I'm having a bad day?) I will keep trying to hold myself gently, though, and keep working on affirming my abilities. The crazy thing is that I know I am a good, strong and more than competent person and parent; I just am not feeling it well right now.

You all help make the day brighter, though. I can't tell you how much your encouragement and insights help me make it through.

Thanks!
UM

GingerM

That's not crazy at all, it's perfectly normal and quite healthy. After all, it's the parents who never doubt that what they're doing is exactly right, the ones who think their children are just fine and that they have no room for improvement as parents, who usually turn out kids - like us. Who are in therapy of some sort most of their lives. Or who can't figure out why their kids can't hold a job.

As for yourself being strong, I did this once and surprised myself. Try sitting down and making a list of absolutely every awful rotten horrid thing (be it a one time ordeal or a life-long situation) that you've ever made it through. Now ask yourself why you don't have a drug or alcohol problem after you've looked at the list. If you've made it this far without having to self medicate the problem away, then you are most definitely strong. You may have to remind yourself of that, probably repeatedly. I still have to remind myself of it at times when I slip into funks that I have difficulty pulling myself out of.

Trying.

This is where I have some confusion, I'm so glad to see it in "print" because I thought my disengaging and not being really interested in anothers "marriage" or wat-not- was me being rather narcissistic. But is it ok to really not be that interested in anothers life? I guess my programming as a child where my adoptive mothers feelings had to come first-second-and-third have brainwashed me and I feel terrible when I don't feel that interested??? but this is ok??

Uncertain Me

Ginger - I think it is these concrete actions and tools that make SR so helpful. You give me something to do and that helps immensely. I will try your suggestion right now.

Trying - I am so not the expert on this forum, but I would think that from what the wise ones say, it is ok to not feel interested. Maybe it's a matter of choosing what you are interested in - making a boundary? - and allowing yourself to follow that choice. But I'm guessing here. Ginger? Mike? GiveLove? Growing? Any insights?

UM

DesertEyes

Hi there trying

It is ok if I _choose_ to disengage. If I sit down and consider the alternatives, consider what it costs me and what it benefits me, and then _I_ decide that it is in my best interests to "disengage"... then it is ok.

However, if I disengage because of a _reaction_ to other events in life. Because my parents messed up my emotions, or because I have "unresolved issues", or because I have anxiety, then it is not _me_ that is in control of my life. It is something in my past that is in control and then it is not ok.

Prior to getting into recovery my whole life was a _reaction_ to my past, to emotions I still carried out, to memories that were no longer relevant. My past was in control of my life, and so I was never able to "leave my past" and live in the present. That's where the first step of ACoA comes from:

1- Admitted we were powerless over our past, and that our lives had become unmanageable.

Today I make choices in life based on my present, and my hopes for my future. There are days when I choose to disengage from the world and just hide under the covers. These are days when my health is poor and I need the time to heal. _I_ make that decision, without emotions from the past. Other days, when my health is better, I go out with friends and participate in life. Both choices are ok, because it is _me_ that makes the choice, and not some painful memory.

Mike

GiveLove

UM,

As usual, you ask the most thought-provoking questions.

I don't think I can add much to the great wisdom shared above. I do want to say that I share your difficulty in forgiving those "lil UMes" from your past who didn't possess the wisdom and omnipotence to protect themselves and others.

Strangely, my sister also committed suicide when I was 22. And I was both molested and raped by people in a position of trust before I was 21. And did I mention being left to babysit at the age of 10 in a terrible neighborhood in one of the most dangerous U.S. cities? I too blamed me, and couldn't seem to forgive myself for not being stronger, wiser, more articulate, more self-protective, smarter, sneakier, or whatever it would've taken to not have those things happen.

As your outer, logical mind will tell you, this is bloody ridiculous. Who am I, mother teresa, houdini, and rambo all rolled into one? But inside it's so difficult to shake those feelings - and shaking those feelings is what's required if you're to view yourself as 'lil UMe and start to take tender care of yourself.

What I learned to do for myself may not help you. But I wanted to share it anyway. Maybe it will take root and grow into something else. What I needed, since I couldn't and wouldn't defend my former selves, was someone who WOULD defend them. So with the help of my counselor, I created an inner champion for myself.

I had just read the book "Goddesses in Everywoman" and had been struck particularly by her description of the goddess Artemis: goddess of the hunt, the moon, and the forest; protector of the oppressed and mistreated; independent, flawed, fierce, protective and merciless with those who would cause harm to those she cared for.

I became almost obsessed with this character. I read about her, did meditations on her, thought about how she would handle something like, oh, someone raping a very kind, trusting, and rather naive 17 year old. Or how she'd feel about someone giving no end of guilt/grief/blame to a 22 year old girl who was already suffering intense pain at the loss of her sister (as I was doing to myself) Guess who my inner champion was patterned after?

My therapist asked me to call on her, bring her to mind, whenever I was tempted to go back and torment those former selves of mine for not being perfect. Or whenever I thought that someone was justified in mistreating me. I practiced for a long time and then, she just started coming on her own. She'd show up in my mind's eye even BEFORE I realized that was beating on my former selves again. Standing with her arms crossed, her arrows peeking out from behind her shoulder, looking very, very p|ssed.

Who's your champion? Bette Davis? Persephone? Katherine Hepburn? Joan D'Arc?

You may need an inner champion, UMe, who will fearlessly stand up for all of the Yous that have so far existed on this planet. They all did the best they could, and deserve your love, not your blame. To quote Julia Cameron, we all do the best we can with the light we have to see by at the time. You absolutely need to let those Yous off the hook -- or hire an inner somebody who will.

When you can love them again, protect them EVEN AGAINST YOURSELF, then it will not be as hard to learn to be tender with yourself.

Tender hugs to you. The days will get better. I promise they will. Artemis promises. Just a little food for thought....

Love,
GL

Uncertain Me

Thank you for making this a great thread. I am doing better today, and I know that part of that is feeling the love from you all...

UM

Uncertain Me

<<<<GiveLove>>>>

Your words are so filled with kindness and warmth! I really love your advice to "adopt" an inner goddess; I think I will need one that defends me against me - my most intense critical eye, my inability to stand up when I think I have failed. I'll work on who that will be, and when I come up with someone, I'll let you know.

:ghug

Love back at ya!
UM

GiveLove

You deserve to talk to yourself as I talk to you, UM! Honest you do.

And I understand that Artemis has some extra time on her calendar if you end up needing her. Leaf through that book in the library; strange and foreign concepts but weirdly interesting. I have a friend, though, who chose Hepburn. When she finds herself obsessing about something from her past, she can do this fiery little gesture with her arm that's just scary; it translates as "You don't have time for this, girl. Life is for living."

Having an inner champion that has more cojones than me has been a key part of my healing. God knows SOMEBODY's got to watch my back...no one else ever did in my old life.

Hugs, luck, strength, and a better day tomorrow
GL

Uncertain Me

Just an update:

I'm feeling a bit like Sybil here with so many different "beings" crowding into my psyche .

Mike - I think I understand even more clearly what you described about caring for a young self. Last night I sat with my 13 year old son who had put off homework until the last moment and talked him through his anxious anger at himself. I told him that this was merely a choice - not a great choice but a choice - and that it didn't reflect on his worth as a person. I came away from that reflecting on how my own mom had dealt with the same type of situation with me - yelling about being stupid and needing to be smarter next time - and I reached inside and embraced my self in the same way I had done with my son. I know my mom and dad loved me, but they didn't know how - or maybe just didn't think necessary - to tell me that I was ok in all of my flawed self. I have made a conscious effort to do that with my sons, and last night, I turned that same caring eye inward.

GiveLove - I thought you'd enjoy knowing that at present, I am leaning towards a female defender who blends Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman with Lucy Lawless's Xena Warrior Princess (I can do the ululation call Xena makes as she attacks - to the embarrassment of my son when he's running cross country ;P ). I like that kinda cheesy combination of sexiness with power. I think this brash woman will help me defend myself from my own negative self-talk I still carry.

I'm back amongst people, too, so my own inner voice that gets a bit overheated when alone for too long is resting.

Onwards to more changes --
UM

DesertEyes

Way cool !!! Sounds like wonderful growth to me

So.... ummm.... lesseee....

Good job, Wonder Warrior

Mike

Uncertain Me

Thanks, but for the record, that's Wonder Warrior Princess!

Grins -
UM

GiveLove

Wonder Warrior Princess..............what a great concept, UM. Think of it: a brash, brave, sexy warrior-goddess whose job it is to protect that sense of Wonder that you feel when you're fully "there" in your own skin.

So many of us have it beaten out of us when we're little, so any feeling of amazement or gratitude or awe that we feel about life's beauty seemsto depend on whether Someone Else is behaving a certain way, or treats us in a certain way, or whatever. If they don't act X, we can't feel Y. Whose idea was that????

Protector of UM's Sense of Wonder! Fantastic!!!

Uncertain Me

Thanks, Givelove - Now I have to go see if I can find one of those leather bustier thingies!

(Maybe that's taking the image too far? )

On a different note, I picked up the goddess book from the Library; I'll let you know if I find some tweaking for my Wonder Princess.

Hope you are having a good Wednesday.

UM