Do I give the addict his pills?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 138
Do I give the addict his pills?
Question:
Husband just recently "detoxed" off opiates. Specfically oxycodone that he was abusing orally and IV. When he ran out of that, he bought and did heroin. Since out of detox, the deal was that I would control his pain medication intake until he could meet with his doctor and discuss pain management options.
I got mad and gave him what was left in an old bottle of Vicoden. It had 63 pills in it. Three days later, he asked where his new script was and I chastised him for taking 63 pills in less than 3 days. Prior to that, I had noticed about 50 pills missing but did not confront him with that. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if could control his usage and of course, he proved me right. I guess I had hoped that he would prove himself wrong too.
Anyway, things are deteriorating quickly. He's back to being nasty and mean and psychologically abusive. I think he's gotten enough opiates back into his system over the last few days to be in full blown addication again. Since we opened the new bottle of pain meds, I have been giving him one day's worth, as prescribed at a time and he is getting increasing pissy with me. Should I just give him the whole bottle of 200 and let him fall? I know I didn't cause it and I can't control it and they have to reach rock bottom to admit they have a problem and seek help. He lost his job due to this last detox and is still unemployed. I'm sure he's depressed but I just received word that he's sitting in our living room staring at the wall with no TV on and giving anyone that asks anything, one word answers. I'm sure he's using again. Should I just give him the damn bottle and be done with it? I know if he doesn't get it from me he'll just get somewhere else.
WHAT DO I DO????? NEED SOME EXPERTISE HERE!
Husband just recently "detoxed" off opiates. Specfically oxycodone that he was abusing orally and IV. When he ran out of that, he bought and did heroin. Since out of detox, the deal was that I would control his pain medication intake until he could meet with his doctor and discuss pain management options.
I got mad and gave him what was left in an old bottle of Vicoden. It had 63 pills in it. Three days later, he asked where his new script was and I chastised him for taking 63 pills in less than 3 days. Prior to that, I had noticed about 50 pills missing but did not confront him with that. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if could control his usage and of course, he proved me right. I guess I had hoped that he would prove himself wrong too.
Anyway, things are deteriorating quickly. He's back to being nasty and mean and psychologically abusive. I think he's gotten enough opiates back into his system over the last few days to be in full blown addication again. Since we opened the new bottle of pain meds, I have been giving him one day's worth, as prescribed at a time and he is getting increasing pissy with me. Should I just give him the whole bottle of 200 and let him fall? I know I didn't cause it and I can't control it and they have to reach rock bottom to admit they have a problem and seek help. He lost his job due to this last detox and is still unemployed. I'm sure he's depressed but I just received word that he's sitting in our living room staring at the wall with no TV on and giving anyone that asks anything, one word answers. I'm sure he's using again. Should I just give him the damn bottle and be done with it? I know if he doesn't get it from me he'll just get somewhere else.
WHAT DO I DO????? NEED SOME EXPERTISE HERE!
Somebody please respond 
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 138
I don't really know what the right or wrong answer is. I know if an addict wants to stay clean, they may have someone ration their pills out to them. I don't really know how that all works. But, if he really wanted to stay clean, he would. If he doesn't, he'll keep using. You keeping his prescribed pills from him isn't going to matter if he wants to use. He will find a way to use whether or not he has the prescribed pills.
If he wanted his sobriety, and only wanted to take his pills as prescribed, but didn't trust himself, I would think he would be the one to make sure you were only giving him what he was "supposed" to have.
Vanessa
If he wanted his sobriety, and only wanted to take his pills as prescribed, but didn't trust himself, I would think he would be the one to make sure you were only giving him what he was "supposed" to have.
Vanessa
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I'm not an expert Devestated but I know you want a response. I feel really bad for you because your in such a bad spot. Sounds like you drew a line in the sand re: the pills, and he is crossing it. He's an addict. He's pushing your boundaries.
It doesn't seem like you being in control of his pain medication is working out the way you expected. He wants his pills and he's not holding up his end of the bargain. If it was me, I would get out of his way. I'd be afraid of what would happen if I didn't give them to him and I wouldn't wait to find out what that was. Knowing that eventually, I would end up handing the pills over to him, I would just get it over with and hand them over now.
You can't control his addiction and he doesn't seem to be very committed to recovery. You should be taking care of yourself and sticking with your boundaries, whatever they are.
If you want expert advice, why don't you call his doctor and tell him/her what's going on. The doctor is an expert. I'm just a codie/recovering addict.
Good luck to you and I hope 2008 is a better year.
It doesn't seem like you being in control of his pain medication is working out the way you expected. He wants his pills and he's not holding up his end of the bargain. If it was me, I would get out of his way. I'd be afraid of what would happen if I didn't give them to him and I wouldn't wait to find out what that was. Knowing that eventually, I would end up handing the pills over to him, I would just get it over with and hand them over now.
You can't control his addiction and he doesn't seem to be very committed to recovery. You should be taking care of yourself and sticking with your boundaries, whatever they are.
If you want expert advice, why don't you call his doctor and tell him/her what's going on. The doctor is an expert. I'm just a codie/recovering addict.
Good luck to you and I hope 2008 is a better year.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 138
I really did need some feedback fast! Thank you. I have to go home soon and I'm just dreading it! Happy New Year to me! I can promise you one thing and you can all hold me to it - next year WILL be better. Changes will be made if necessary. :puppet
Drug Addiction Has No Mercy
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukie Oregon
Posts: 875
and well you know I have to chime in here ..
I say doling them out in effort to control his addiction isn't the answer and giving them to him and risk him killing himself with them isn't the answer either ... better yet, flush em and if he gets more then you don't have to feel responsible either way!!!!
Yeah, flush em
Hugs and Love
Passion
I say doling them out in effort to control his addiction isn't the answer and giving them to him and risk him killing himself with them isn't the answer either ... better yet, flush em and if he gets more then you don't have to feel responsible either way!!!!
Yeah, flush em
Hugs and Love
Passion
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
That's a very brave and possibly life saving option - his life, but maybe not your own, depending on what your addict is like when he is out of meds. If they were my drugs (and I was still using) and you flushed them, I just might kill you. That's just me though. I was pretty protective about my drugs.
Hug giver-outer!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The State of Possibilities
Posts: 533
Just my opinion here but I would never give an addict his/her drugs! It's none of his business what you do with them, just tell him that he's not getting drugs from you, period! You certainly cannot control him or his addiction and you have no business being in control of doling out drugs to him.
With that said, however, you need to establish some boundaries and guidelines for yourself as to just what you will and will not tolerate. Once you realize and accept that you cannot control his behavior, you have to ask yourself what behavior is not acceptable to you.
If we expect our addicts to make a choice to clean up their act, we also must realize that WE have a choice to make also. We can just allow our addict to bring us down and take our lives away from us or we can make a choice to NOT allow it. Since we cannot control the addictive behavior, the only thing we can control is just how much that behavior controls us.
Remember, nothing changes if nothing changes. He may not be able to make the decision you want but you can make a decision for yourself. I know the hardest decision I ever had to make was to kick my addict daughter out of our home and not have a front-row seat to her active addiction. I chose NOT to use drugs and I did not want it around me. Now, after years of her actively using, she says she is clean and she is back in our lives. We are taking things slow but she knows and understand beyond any doubt that I have boundaries and will enforce them when I need to. She has thanked both me and her father for maintaining a "standard" of behavior that don't include drugs because she knew just what that meant if she wanted to come back into our lives. I just know that we could not live with her actively using and we set our boundaries as such.
It's not easy but you need to ask yourself just what you can and cannot tolerate and what you are and not willing to live with. If you don't establish that "standard" for yourself, he will never have to even think a little about what is expected from him and YOU will be making all the concessions.
It's never easy but living with the consequences and behavior of an active addict isn't either. And giving him drugs of any kind is not sending the kind of message I would want to give to my husband.
Hugs,
Marteen
With that said, however, you need to establish some boundaries and guidelines for yourself as to just what you will and will not tolerate. Once you realize and accept that you cannot control his behavior, you have to ask yourself what behavior is not acceptable to you.
If we expect our addicts to make a choice to clean up their act, we also must realize that WE have a choice to make also. We can just allow our addict to bring us down and take our lives away from us or we can make a choice to NOT allow it. Since we cannot control the addictive behavior, the only thing we can control is just how much that behavior controls us.
Remember, nothing changes if nothing changes. He may not be able to make the decision you want but you can make a decision for yourself. I know the hardest decision I ever had to make was to kick my addict daughter out of our home and not have a front-row seat to her active addiction. I chose NOT to use drugs and I did not want it around me. Now, after years of her actively using, she says she is clean and she is back in our lives. We are taking things slow but she knows and understand beyond any doubt that I have boundaries and will enforce them when I need to. She has thanked both me and her father for maintaining a "standard" of behavior that don't include drugs because she knew just what that meant if she wanted to come back into our lives. I just know that we could not live with her actively using and we set our boundaries as such.
It's not easy but you need to ask yourself just what you can and cannot tolerate and what you are and not willing to live with. If you don't establish that "standard" for yourself, he will never have to even think a little about what is expected from him and YOU will be making all the concessions.
It's never easy but living with the consequences and behavior of an active addict isn't either. And giving him drugs of any kind is not sending the kind of message I would want to give to my husband.
Hugs,
Marteen
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I'm with Marteen on this.
I learned the hard way that I am not a banker nor a pharmacist and I am not repsonsible for other people's bad choices.
What works best for me is to focus on my recovery and let the rest of the world take responsibility for themselves.
Sending hugs because I know this is hard. And a Happy New Years Hug too.
I learned the hard way that I am not a banker nor a pharmacist and I am not repsonsible for other people's bad choices.
What works best for me is to focus on my recovery and let the rest of the world take responsibility for themselves.
Sending hugs because I know this is hard. And a Happy New Years Hug too.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 138
I really appreciate the feedback guys. I did say that these are prescribed drugs right - for severe arthritus? He was taking oxycodone (by choice - he asked his doc for it) but immediately prior to detox when he knew he was out of control, he asked that the prescription be changed to vicoden. His substance abuse counselor and doctor approved the further use of it after detox on the condition that it was controlled by someone else and because he really has pain. It worked for three weeks but since he's had a taste of more and has stolen them, he wants more. He keeps telling me pills are not the problem yet he's angry all of sudden because I caught him in a lie. If I flush them, he'll just see his doc for his regular appt. on the 2nd and get more or the good stuff that he prefers again. If I give them to him, he'll take at least 5-20 at at time. I know him but then he'll run out and switch, most likely, back to heroin. I think I may continue giving him a days worth at a time and he'll just have to suffer through it. I think....
He seems more in control tonight but I think he took something earlier so he may just be in that chillin mode. I was just going to hand them to him and tell him to do whatever he wanted and the hell with it. Now I don't know. I'm sorry. Nyte, you gonna kick my butt?
He seems more in control tonight but I think he took something earlier so he may just be in that chillin mode. I was just going to hand them to him and tell him to do whatever he wanted and the hell with it. Now I don't know. I'm sorry. Nyte, you gonna kick my butt?
remember to breathe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: philadelphia pa
Posts: 1,280
I too have no advice but when my son started recovery (not this last time but one other time, I don't know if that makes a difference but) anyway he was given meds for anxiety and took too many at once (on purpose) but he said you can't dangle a carrot in front of a horse and expect him not to eat it. He never took another one nor any other meds. He is a person that will take an aspirin instead of a pain pill (meaning oxys, vics or perks) I don't know why your husband is on vics but it seems to me he won't be able to kick the opiate habit while on them.
*~10 YEARS BABY~*
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 9,369
Nope, I wouldn't do it, and would hope no one would hand me over my poison if I was trying to kill myself. If I am going to do it don't make it any easier for me. If something bad did happen with that last batch, you don't want any part of that on your hands either, I would guess.
No way would I hand over any drugs to anyone...
JMO...
No way would I hand over any drugs to anyone...
JMO...
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
I didn't read through every single response - so this is basically for JP's original post.
I have seen this experiment carried out in my very home by my father about 2 years ago. Here is what happened:
My mom took the drugs my father doled out.
She also took the drugs she obtained through other means.
She constantly needled him for more.
It didn't do anything other than give my mom an exciting new resource for drugs.
I was very critical of my father's "Brilliant Plan" when he asked me for the same advice you are. He was so angry that I doubted him that he pushed me out of his moving car.
He has never apologized. My mother is still using.
My question now is: why are these drugs being prescribed to an abuser? There are far far better drugs for arthritis than opioids. In fact - opioids are probably the worst possible drug on the planet for arthritis. It's an auto-immune disorder, not a chronic pain syndrome and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, it's doubtful your husband will be interested in a new rheumatologist however since, if he's at all like my mother is, this one gives him his DOC.
If I seem like I'm being harsh, please don't take it personally. I grew up surrounded by drugs and alcohol and know the realities of it. It simply costs too much for me to sugar coat it now. I can't do it because I've been there.
~SK
I have seen this experiment carried out in my very home by my father about 2 years ago. Here is what happened:
My mom took the drugs my father doled out.
She also took the drugs she obtained through other means.
She constantly needled him for more.
It didn't do anything other than give my mom an exciting new resource for drugs.
I was very critical of my father's "Brilliant Plan" when he asked me for the same advice you are. He was so angry that I doubted him that he pushed me out of his moving car.
He has never apologized. My mother is still using.
My question now is: why are these drugs being prescribed to an abuser? There are far far better drugs for arthritis than opioids. In fact - opioids are probably the worst possible drug on the planet for arthritis. It's an auto-immune disorder, not a chronic pain syndrome and should be treated as such. Unfortunately, it's doubtful your husband will be interested in a new rheumatologist however since, if he's at all like my mother is, this one gives him his DOC.
If I seem like I'm being harsh, please don't take it personally. I grew up surrounded by drugs and alcohol and know the realities of it. It simply costs too much for me to sugar coat it now. I can't do it because I've been there.
~SK
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hackettstown, NJ
Posts: 692
I asked my husband to dole out the pain meds for the first day and half after abdominal surgery for me. he did so, thank god. (AFter that, I used extra strength tylenol and that was that.) We addicts really can't control a large number of narcotic pills by ourselves. I'm an addict and the thought of having to do so terrifies me (I'm almost 4 years clean and it still terrifies me). Look ,you entered into an agreement with him initially and YOU broke the agreement because you 'got mad'. Did you really expect him to control his drug of choice by himself? so now, you both have consequences.
While it is certainly the addicts responsibility to have a plan regarding pain meds and to make sure he finds somebody to work with him, it then is also the 'other person's responsibility to carry thru with their part once they agreed to take part. If you aren't comfortable in this role of 'keeper of the pain meds" that's fine, but please let him know right away so that he can find another option -someone else whether family member or friend who can do this. Please don't offer to help him with something like this and then change your mind mid-stream.
I'm sorry I'm being so harsh about this, but if my non-addict husband had gotten mad at me and given me the whole bottle of valium and vicodan after my surgery 2 years ago, I don't know what I would have done (and I was already clean for nearly 2 years then). I know I would have felt like somebody pulled the rug out from under me and i would have felt betrayed since I trusted him to do what he agreed to do.
I also do agree with the previous poster - an addict should only use narcotic pain meds in an emergency for very severe pain, and only for the shortest possible time. I've seen many a recovering addict relapse and be 'lost' for years due to trying to manage chronic pain with narcotics. Unfortunately, we addicts are between a rock and a hard place and I know many in recovery who just plain live with the pain on a daily basis, and use alternative methods of pain control such as meditation, biofeedback, etc.
While it is certainly the addicts responsibility to have a plan regarding pain meds and to make sure he finds somebody to work with him, it then is also the 'other person's responsibility to carry thru with their part once they agreed to take part. If you aren't comfortable in this role of 'keeper of the pain meds" that's fine, but please let him know right away so that he can find another option -someone else whether family member or friend who can do this. Please don't offer to help him with something like this and then change your mind mid-stream.
I'm sorry I'm being so harsh about this, but if my non-addict husband had gotten mad at me and given me the whole bottle of valium and vicodan after my surgery 2 years ago, I don't know what I would have done (and I was already clean for nearly 2 years then). I know I would have felt like somebody pulled the rug out from under me and i would have felt betrayed since I trusted him to do what he agreed to do.
I also do agree with the previous poster - an addict should only use narcotic pain meds in an emergency for very severe pain, and only for the shortest possible time. I've seen many a recovering addict relapse and be 'lost' for years due to trying to manage chronic pain with narcotics. Unfortunately, we addicts are between a rock and a hard place and I know many in recovery who just plain live with the pain on a daily basis, and use alternative methods of pain control such as meditation, biofeedback, etc.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by DevastatedJP 
I think he's gotten enough opiates back into his system over the last few days to be in full blown addication again.
Pills in him or not...an addict is an addict and untill they can make pills that are not addictive...a full blown addiction starts with picking up that first pill.
So he is pissy because he wants more pills.
He gets more and then he is pissy and mean because he has more in him.
Easy choice in my book.
Pissy or pissy and mean?
You made a choice to give the meds as needed per the RX.
You say it, you need do it. Any boundary we set, we need hold if we want people to believe us.
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Right here somewhere
Posts: 509
You are in severe denial.
Please get to an alanon or naranon meeting. If he ever died as a result of your giving him those drugs, you will hate yourself.
DO-NOT-ENABLE-HIS-DISEASE!!
Please get to an alanon or naranon meeting. If he ever died as a result of your giving him those drugs, you will hate yourself.
DO-NOT-ENABLE-HIS-DISEASE!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 138
Thank you, thank you and Happy New Year!
St. Kurt - question - what are the non opiate pills you refer to. He has an appt. tomorrow with the prescribing doc. to discuss pain management which I understand might be BS to an addict who doesn't want to quit. In addition to that, all medical services are provided through the VA. It is my understanding that they may not be real current with what's available and what's not, for example, they may use methadone but not suboxone (cheaper?) Since he has no health insurance.....actually the VA got him back on this crap cause he was clean for 10 years then had a painful bone infection and almost lost his finger and/or hand. They had him on so much morphine, he was in ICU for 2 days - only because of the level of morphine which was extra high due to his past 29 years of addiction - it took more to register in his body (or is that BS too?). He was in the VA Hospital for 8 more days taking 8 bags of IV antibiotics a day and then the surgeon (different than his regular doc) was handing out pills like crazy. I think that was the begging or at least that I noticed.
The other issue, or supposedly why the doc. gave him OXYcodone compared to HYRDOcodone was he has Hep. C and his liver is closely monitored. Now the Hydrocodone is mostly Tylenol which some with Hep. C shouldn't be taking because it's hard on the liver (the VA treats the Hep. C too btw).
So many judgment calls. Everyone is right, I should have never thrown that bottle at him and said, "here, if you know so damn much - you do it". I keep thinking the substance abuse counselor, the level-headed, educated man who's preached recovery and has lived recovery will come back. I've never seen him in addiction before. Before he could out talk me, out think me and theorize me but since coming here, the tables are beginning to turn and I'm getting really good at staying a step ahead of him.
I told somebody, I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth again before this is all over - but at least I have the oral surgeon lined up and on stand by this time. Thank you guys so much!!!! I would have been locked up by now if not for SR. I know this (I) am a work in progress and I learn so much every time I read a thread, from the experts. I enjoy that I'm hearing from addicts, recovering addicts, alcoholics, friends and families of substance abusers, mothers, fathers, wives and husbands. What a fantastic mix. I am never offended. I ask cause I want to know. Thank you again!
St. Kurt - question - what are the non opiate pills you refer to. He has an appt. tomorrow with the prescribing doc. to discuss pain management which I understand might be BS to an addict who doesn't want to quit. In addition to that, all medical services are provided through the VA. It is my understanding that they may not be real current with what's available and what's not, for example, they may use methadone but not suboxone (cheaper?) Since he has no health insurance.....actually the VA got him back on this crap cause he was clean for 10 years then had a painful bone infection and almost lost his finger and/or hand. They had him on so much morphine, he was in ICU for 2 days - only because of the level of morphine which was extra high due to his past 29 years of addiction - it took more to register in his body (or is that BS too?). He was in the VA Hospital for 8 more days taking 8 bags of IV antibiotics a day and then the surgeon (different than his regular doc) was handing out pills like crazy. I think that was the begging or at least that I noticed.
The other issue, or supposedly why the doc. gave him OXYcodone compared to HYRDOcodone was he has Hep. C and his liver is closely monitored. Now the Hydrocodone is mostly Tylenol which some with Hep. C shouldn't be taking because it's hard on the liver (the VA treats the Hep. C too btw).
So many judgment calls. Everyone is right, I should have never thrown that bottle at him and said, "here, if you know so damn much - you do it". I keep thinking the substance abuse counselor, the level-headed, educated man who's preached recovery and has lived recovery will come back. I've never seen him in addiction before. Before he could out talk me, out think me and theorize me but since coming here, the tables are beginning to turn and I'm getting really good at staying a step ahead of him.
I told somebody, I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth again before this is all over - but at least I have the oral surgeon lined up and on stand by this time. Thank you guys so much!!!! I would have been locked up by now if not for SR. I know this (I) am a work in progress and I learn so much every time I read a thread, from the experts. I enjoy that I'm hearing from addicts, recovering addicts, alcoholics, friends and families of substance abusers, mothers, fathers, wives and husbands. What a fantastic mix. I am never offended. I ask cause I want to know. Thank you again!
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by DevastatedJP
Thank you, thank you and Happy New Year!
St. Kurt - question - what are the non opiate pills you refer to.
St. Kurt - question - what are the non opiate pills you refer to.
The other issue, or supposedly why the doc. gave him OXYcodone compared to HYRDOcodone was he has Hep. C and his liver is closely monitored. Now the Hydrocodone is mostly Tylenol which some with Hep. C shouldn't be taking because it's hard on the liver (the VA treats the Hep. C too btw).
Both Oxycodone and hydrocodone have equal amounts of tylenol in them. Oxycodone is a slightly stronger narcotic however.
Either you husband's doctor stopped reading the medical journals in the 1950s or someone is making up stories (and I don't mean you JP).
Before he could out talk me, out think me and theorize me but since coming here, the tables are beginning to turn and I'm getting really good at staying a step ahead of him.
Even after all these years my mom still catches me by surprise. Me. I know all about the drugs, I've watched her lie, manipulate, and steal from the family since I was crawling so I know her tricks, I don't believe a single word that comes out of her mouth, and I've been in Al-anon forever... I still get caught off guard sometimes.
It's a losing battle. The only one who can win it is the addict themselves when they are ready to.
~SK
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 138
Wait, are you serious?
Oxycodone has the same amount of tylenol as Hydrocodone!
Yes, I've been taken (again).
Sorry to be such an idiot. In retrospect, he was initially given Naproxin but he said it didn't help (I guess not). My ex had knee problems and Aleive helped him soooo much. Sorry to be such a jack
ass.
Oxycodone has the same amount of tylenol as Hydrocodone!
Yes, I've been taken (again).
Sorry to be such an idiot. In retrospect, he was initially given Naproxin but he said it didn't help (I guess not). My ex had knee problems and Aleive helped him soooo much. Sorry to be such a jack
ass.
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