QueenOfCyprus

Hi - I've been reading the boards here and it is a wonderful resource - had no idea sooooooo many people struggle with the same issues. Always felt so alone, but finding out there's lots of folks out there struggling with an alcoholic spouse.
Quick background: married 8 years, 2 kids 10 and 7. Have known about my husband's alcohol problem for about 7 years - each time it "got bad" he made promises and I believed them. Trouble was that he just got more clever about hiding it and I got more desperate to believe him :-( Anyways, to make a long story short, I discovered he was drinking again and 1. had stolen money from a relative to pay for it, 2. had been stashing booze in the house and drinking while I wasn't home (when he was supposed to be watching the kids) and 3. the babysitter called me one afternoon to say she wouldn't let the kids go with him in the car because he had been drinking, etc. etc. etc.......
So I asked him to leave (or I would, his choice) and that he was not allowed to drive the kids anywhere in his car and that he couldn't be left alone with the kids for any longer than an hour or so. Yay for all of that......
Anyways, the trouble is that he is extremely manipulative and great at trying to make me feel guilty for all of this. He thinks that because he's been going to AA meetings for 2 weeks (of which I have no confirmation) that he should be allowed to have the kids in the car, etc. He doesn't seem to understand that 8 years of drinking, lies and all of the financial and emotional havoc he has wrought is not counteracted by 2 (supposed) weeks of sobriety.
I know I know - its Christmas and I should be forgiving... but I could use a little help and someone to talk to about sticking to my guns about this. He's coming over tonight to see the kids - and he will undoubtedly try to worm his way back in here - somebody please tell me that I'm doing the right thing??!!

denny57

The fact he thinks he should have the kids in the car tells me he's nowhere near an AA meeting and, if he is, he ain't listening.

Just my opinion.

LaTeeDa

Welcome and glad you found this place. Not glad that another family is going through this, though.

One of the first and best lessons I learned when I came here is ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. He can tell you all he wants, but pay close attention to his actions. They are what matters.

L

Barbara52

Sounds like you are doing the right thing to me. {hugs}

As I see it, as a parent your first responsibility is to those children and making sure they are safe. Unless there is a substantial history of him not drinking, I would not allow him to drive the kids anywhere, would not allow him to be with them unsupervised. The risk of them being harmed is way too high.

Have you talked to an attory to find out what your options are? That could be a good step since it will let you know what your rights are, how to put together a separation agreement that protects you and the kids.

Have you gotten into therapy or gone to AlAnon? Both can be wonderfully helpful for you and strength your resolve to do what you need to do for yourself and your children.

I see no mention that he has stopped drinking.

QueenOfCyprus

Thank you all for your advice and {hugs}! I will be meeting with an attorney after the first of the year - I agree with that I need to have things legal and somebody besides me saying "Driving the kids?? NOT an option!"

Also a big thanks to the poster who mentioned that if he was really doing AA, he wouldn't have even asked. This idea kept running through my head - but again I dismissed it as me being not very nice or not understanding enough. Pretty sure that this round of "I'll go to meetings - I PROMISE!" is just because he got his butt booted out.


The other question was how to know when a person is really turning it around, when are they really making an effort - how do you know?? I am quite sure our marriage is over, but I want to know if he's getting better for the kid's sake. Is there a time line? A certain number of meetings to attend before it starts to sink in? Can they just fake it for months and months - or will the message ever get through even if they just go to make someone else happy?

Im reading through the boards to find some answers, but the best part is knowing you are all out there. THANKS AGAIN

82tb

When you confront an a loved one about this it is extremely difficult to believe you are doing the right thing. You begin to doubt yourself, think that maybe if you weren't so hard on him, then that would be the key, and that would make them finally stop. Sadly it is not that easy. You are doing the right thing. You need to protect your children and make sure that he isn't alone with them very much. As hard as it may feel, you are right here; stick with it and hopefully he will start going to Alanon meetings and change, but until then you need to stick to your guns. I don't know what it is like to know that you alchoholic has changes, sadly mine hasn't, but I'd imagine you could tell. They wouldn't say things like what he said about the 2 meetings and the kids and car. I think you'd be able to "feel it" if and hopefully when he changes. Good luck to you.

nowinsituation

I wonder the same thing. Since I have moved out I don't know if AH is still drinking -- and I want to know. Part of me says he deserves one more chance, if I knew that he quit drinking I should be willing to give him another chance. "Should" I think is the key word, and that comes from my guilt. Bottom line is I know for a fact that he is not "in recovery" whether he is drinking or not. The behaviors are still there -- he plays the victim and handles most conflicts by being passive-agressive. AND -- he hid his drinking and LIED to me about it -- It would take a miracle for him to earn my trust back again, and he is not even trying!!!

I think your instincts are right -- even if he hasn't been drinking, his attitude has not changed; he is not in recovery and he will be back on the downward slide soon.

Barbara52

My STBXAH has apparently quit drinking. He says he quit the day I left. Maybe, maybe not. Since I have only seen/talked to him twice in the past 5 months I have no way of knowing. It doesn't matter thoughbecause I do know he hasn't gotten into any sort of recovery program and does not go to AA. He's not an alcoholic he says. He quit drinking without trouble he says and that's proof he's not he says.

I do know that he still has all the same behaviors and issues he's always had and will not deal with them. His choice.

If I were of a mind to ever go back to him (and I am definitely not) the first requirement would remain for him to get into recovery, take it seriously and then maybe after at least a year of sobriety my return could be discussed. That's what I told him the day I left.

wraybear

Queen, my AH of 14 years at the time, had been sober about 4 months when he took the kids on a two hour trip. On his way back he decided to stop and get a bottle. He ended up in an almost tragic car accident. He was helicoptered to a hospital and I was told they didn't think he was going to make it. He was in the hospital 2 1/2 months - Six years later, still recovering physically from accident. My 5 year old was helicoptered to a different hospital with spinal fracture, liver laceration and intestinal tear... toxins from instestine could have gotten in liver, which would have been deadly. Had to wear a body brace for spinal injury. She was hospitalized for 13 days. The 2 year old was taken by ambulance to another hospital and fortunately had only a bruise on collar bone from shoulder belt.

So, I say you are right to protect the kids. However, I a judge may not agree. In my experience lawyers/judges/advocates all want both parents involved and I was one time told I was not allowing the children to have quality time with their dad which was unnacceptable to the court. Unless he has a lot of alcohol related problems on his record, DUI's, domestic violence, etc, you may have a hard time without a mediator/counselor.

Regarding AA... My AH has been actively involved in AA for 2 1/2 years now. He is a changed man. He would say to me "I know I need to earn your trust", "I know my past behavior has caused this," and he has taken the steps to prove to me he is a changed man by his actions. Yes, I listened to the WORDS for years, but actions are the only thing you can trust. I accepted the lies, the sneaking, the manipulation for years. I would think if he was REALLY listening to the people in his group, and embracing the program, he would be taking some responsibility for his past behavior. Two weeks is not a very long time, but at least it is a start.

Yes, the one-year mark is a good sign. My AH was in and out of AA for close to ten years. Never made it more than a few months during this time. The accident actually made his drinking and now drug addiction worse. For the next 3 years he was in worse shape than before becuase now he had an addiction to pain killers on top of the alcohol.

So, the accident may have been the beginning of his "bottom" but he continued to drink and druge another two+ years. Until I kicked him out, and his drinking/drugging got worse, and he almost died another two times due to his heart stopping, and a lawyer contacted him about a divorce, that is when he finally decided to take the AA program seriously. It saved his life and it saved our marriage.

Take care, and trust yourself. You are obviously a strong person to have lived with it for so long, so BE STRONG, TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.

Cynay

Just wanted to add my welcome to the others... not much to add to the above but wanted to welcome you.

QueenOfCyprus

Nowinsituation, I can totally feel your pain - my AH is very manipulative and has this absolutely fantastic way of making everything be everyone else's fault - he is the master at passive-aggressive behaviors - he should teach a class! I am astounded at his ability to do this; sometimes its just so subtle like a little tilt to the head or oh-so slight condescending tone that insinuates "we all know you're the crazy one here, but I'll keep playing along because I'm such a swell guy..." Usually it's only after its all over and I have that vague uneasy feeling that I just got hosed, but can't quite put my finger on what pi**ed me off - why he was just trying to be nice, RIGHT???!!!

Recently read that passive-aggressive and/or narcissistic behaviors are very common in alcoholics, my therapist also confirmed this. Her suggestion was to write down in black and white just what it is that your AH is doing that is unacceptable, and keep the list close at hand so that you can visually remind yourself what the hell has really gone on. That way, when he gets into smarmy mode and starts spinning the facts, you can remind yourself that there are very concrete, real and valid reasons NOT to accept excuses for his behaviors. It works for me!

As for the burning questions of "is he really going to meetings? is he really sober?" If anybody has any suggestions on how to tackle that monster.... I did a big illegal u-turn while driving today because I thought I saw AH's truck at the local pub - should not care, he is OUT of here and it is his business - but it is hard to not wonder. ....

Growing

Both of my parents were A's growing up.

"As for the burning questions of "is he really going to meetings? is he really sober?" If anybody has any suggestions on how to tackle that monster.... I did a big illegal u-turn while driving today because I thought I saw AH's truck at the local pub - should not care, he is OUT of here and it is his business - but it is hard to not wonder. ...."

You know you shouldn't be doing this and I am just repeating what you already know.

Just my humble opinion: *You are sober* Fight the urge to get on their level.

I agree with others that you will know when he has really changed because he will be a different person, but some people get sober and are still jerks. But even the jerks realize that they need to take responsibility for their actions and that, their disease plays a big part in the family destruction..So if you hear that from him some day, that would be a start..I agree with "Actions speak louder than words" and if you use that as a litmus test with him, it should cut through the greatest part of the B.S.

"my AH is very manipulative and has this absolutely fantastic way of making everything be everyone else's fault - he is the master at passive-aggressive behaviors - he should teach a class! I am astounded at his ability to do this; sometimes its just so subtle like a little tilt to the head or oh-so slight condescending tone that insinuates "we all know you're the crazy one here, but I'll keep playing along because I'm such a swell guy..." "

Playing games and splitting hairs and luring you back into codie behaviors is a bad sign.
This is where YOU have all the power and it sounds like you are on the right road to ending what I consider emotional abuse.

JMHO and take what you like and leave the rest,

Love and Welcome,

Growing