Lilya

I´m currently working on my love relationships and would truly appreciate some input. I stopped drinking in 1986 and during my sobriety I haven´t been able to get my love life in order. At 45 I have one divorce and five live-in relationships under my belt and one grown-up daughterand three miscarrages. All the man I´ve lived with have been either alcaholics, drug-dealers, pot-heads and womanizers. After my divorce in 1994 I went through a period of abstinance and joined SSLA, Al-Anon and EA and formed a woman´s group in Paris, my native city. After four years of abstinance and hard work on my relationships I started dating again, all the while attending my groups. I met many men through my work and social activities, but still, not a dent! I respond only to men who are bad for me. When I fall in “love”, I fall hard, I become an enabler. I actually hope the men I´m with drink so they tell me they love me. I feel disgusted with myself because I can´t seem to be able to stop this behaviour and of course they all cheat on me and it ends badly.
I tried going out with men I wasn´t really attracted to but seemed nice. Some of these men had real troubles as well, but different. They did not use mind altering drugs but they had real difficult character defects.
In 2001 I met a man who seemed perfect for me, an architect, civilized, sophisticated and fun to be with. He also seemed really warm and seemed as interested in me as I was in him. We started dating as he had recently ended a relationship with another woman. My expectation went off the charts as usual. As Christmas came and holidays are difficult for me as I´m single, he suggested we should give dinner parties at his place. I was going on a trip to the Far East after Christmas and he wanted to come with me. We planned all this and he had reserved his ticket. Then just before Christmas he was seen with his ex-girlfriend shopping for Christmas. I asked him if he was still seeing her but he denied it. But he was seen again, and when I was at his place, she let herself in with a key. Tragic confrontations, and I left. He cancelled the Christmas parties and his ticket to the Far East.
Well, I left for the trip alone, but had great time, actually. Trouble is, that this hurt me so badly - rejection yet again and falling for the wrong guy - I haven´t been able to date or meet other men. I´ve been paralysed in that department. I´m so scared and so hurt still, I cannot even fathom a relationship. The signal I send out are obviously so confused. I´m too tired to continue and have been very alone since then. I´ve surrendered and gone through my steps, yet again, but like I said before, not a dent! The only recovery I seem to have accomplished is that I go through each rejection more quickly and I end immediately a relationship that seems wrong. Everything else is going so well.
Can someone please help me? I really want to work on this.

ladyregah

Lilya,
I read your post and thought about what I used to be like in my past... Not that my present self is so much better... just different... The old me used to date men that were "bad" and exciting... They were all abusive and hurtful but i hung on thinking that I could change something about them and then all of the wonderful things that I saw in them would come out... I spent all my time thinking that Prince charming would come along and sweep me off my feet at any moment... I was looking for mister right and only found Mr Right NOW.... Then one day I realized that I had bigger problems.... My "bad boys" had me partying and doing drugs and having a great old time but somewhere in there I lost myself and I had come to depend on them... I couldnt even see me anymore... My solution to all of this was to get rid of all of it.... I stopped drinking and drugging... I stopped dating anyone.... I locked myself in my house with a copy of Melody Beatties "co-dependant no more" and "everything I ever need to know I learned in kindergarten" (author name is lost on me at the moment) for 6 months.... I got in touch with me and learned that I AM important to me... I hung signs all over my house stating affirmations that I thought were important to me....
I went to work and did whatever I felt like to feel good about me... I learned to recognize my feelings/behaviors for what they were... and lastly I decided that BEFORE I got into another sick relationship I would learn what that meant.... I decided that I would date no more "bad boys" When Mr.Right did come I would be someone that someone would want to have a relationship with... Even more than that I would be someone I could look in the mirror and like and even love....
Over the years I think that I did really good... If Mr.RightNOW came along and I was lonely I said no thank you, and told myself I was ok with me... Then when My AH came along things seemed to be different... He seemed so perfect to me... HE had a stable job, (US NAVY 10 years in then) and a home and a car and he was everything no one else in my life had been... He was sweet and caring... (prince charming) SO we dated and I forgot everything that I had learned years before... See I knew that he drank I just didnt want to admit to myself that it was a problem or that it would make me feel insane... That brings me to today.... Today I am working on me again... Recovery never ends... The process is a lifelong commitment to you... Take care in what you choose for your life.... ALWAYS choose YOU FIRST!!! YOU are the ONLY YOU that YOU will ever have..... When Mr.Right comes along you will know and it will feel good deep down inside and you probably wont even see it coming.... When you are looking for something it is always in the last place you look
I am always amazed that I can find the words to aid in others problems but when it comes to looking in my own backyard I am near blind....
Take care of you!!

imatradin

i can understand your confusion on why the relationships arent working out for you...i too am atratted to the wrong type of woman and i like that because i can be a saviour....whoops need to save my own life first...it is hard to learn to love me first and never put anyone else first but i try and honestly never been real successful yet....i truly believe it has to do with my own self esteem...no matter how long sober or hours of therapy i have come to the reslove this will be problem that i work on the rest of my life....Also have a problem with depression which only makes it worse for me trying to learn to love me and not drag someone down with me.....i live alone now am really lonely but i think it is the better way for me....thanks for the post

Lilya

Thank you both for responding. We seem to have the same life! I read both replies carefully and I felt such pain reading about the charming man in the navy - Mr. Right who turned otherwise.
I have come to this conclusion that there is no such thing. I believe it´s an illusion or an extremly rare person. Mr. OK is more like it and I´ll settle for him.
I try to choose myself first, but being a saviour, a depressed saviour, I might add, I guess there is still something in me I don´t want to look at. I´ve recently recovered from a bad bout of depression, where it felt like I was treading water, going nowhere for five years. It has definately knocked my self-esteem to the ground and is another reason why I choose the wrong kind of men.
The truth is that I´m MS Wrong. I manipulate, lie, cover up, force love confessions and if I don´t get my way I use mental and sometimes physical abuse. It was a total shock to me to admit this and look at this with honesty, but that´s the ugly truth. I´m still struggling to accept this dark part of me, because otherwise I cannot change it. This aspect only appears when I´m involved with a man I´m interested in. I feel like a total psychopath and I cannot understand my cruelty. I usually hate to inflict pain. I feel so ashamed and confused.
Has anyone some suggestion for litterature concerning how to stop abusing men mentally and physically?
I´ve read Melody Beatty´s books and they helped me enormously, it´s just been such a long time I´ve battled against this and each time I feel i´m knocking my head against the wall. I´m so tired of the fear and the rejections, God help me, sometimes I want to drink again. It used to still my fears of relationships. But it´s not an option for me so I will follow my therapists advice: Choose friendship and take it from there. Thanks again for your kind replies. It was also great to read a man´s point of view.:shades:

2stop

Lilya, As I read your post and saw you be so honest about how you mentally/physically abuse men it really hit home with me and my difficulty with my husband. I too like you cannot stand to see a person hurt but I have hit and emotionally hurt my husband a lot. When I first got with my husband ten years ago at the age of 21 I really did not trust men and thought all of them were out to abuse or use me, so one day I thought he had lied to me about drugs and I went out on the porch and hit him several times in the head, he is a big tall guy and crazy me just let the anger and fury and resentment against all men take over and never once realizing I was being abusive. My friends would never think me abusive, always told me I was the smart pretty one "You don't have any problems" Just thought I could whip out a 8-by-10 glossy and presto my life was in good shape. I think fear is our number one enemy in relationships, from fear of being inadequate ourselves or/and that the man in our life will hurt us like all the rest, so we kind of wait for it to happen and througha kind of self-fulfilling prophesy we bring into our lives what we fear most and strike out against the fear with mental or physical acts of violence, which I don't ever justify, but know it needs to be addressed in ourselves and society as a whole. Well, thank you so much for sharing and being so open and honest, it has helped me see into myself more and things I need to address. I really hope things get better for you soon. Keep hanging on and above all be kind to yourself!!

Many hugs and hope too,
Tammie

myles1

I don't know any books of women abusing men but I do know of lots about men abusing women.

1. "No Visible Wounds" by Susan Miller

2."Is it Love or Addiction" by Brenda Schaeffer

3."Men who hate women and the women who love them." by Susan Forward

Maybe you could read these and put yourself in the mans shoes I don't know. ThE incidence of women abusing men is less than men abusing women but these books may help.

Ngaire

Lilya

Hi Tammy,

I was very touched by you reply. This is very difficult to talk about and I appreciate your honesty towards me. It made me feel better not to be alone in this. I once started a group in Paris for women who abuse men physically and mentally and it was intense. We lost our facility at the church and then slowly the group died. I still keep in touch with my group friends; some went back into disastrous relationships and others preferred to abstinate completely like I do right now.
I wonder if this is genetic. My grandmother was very violent towards men and my sister has hit her husband as well.
Frankly, I don´t know how to work through this. My therapist tells me to let my reason guide me through emotional turmoil and I know some great techniques from the women´s group and my work with ACA anger management. Somehow, it only works up to a degree and when I´m with a man who interests me I feel my anger pops up. I leave before I do something, while before I just snapped and hit them when I was drinking. My therapist has pointed out I am really punishing the man who raped me and kidnapped me when I was in my teens.
I need all the support I can get. Thank you, Ngare, for pointing out the reading material. Yes, I´ve read them all. I really like Dr. Susan Forward´s books and I will look at the book you mentionned again. I feel more hopeful.

Thanks again and many hugs.

2stop

Lilya,

I know how frustrating it is to feel so alone and confused in how we act out in relationships with men. I have been abused by men and it is so hard, wasn't kidnapped, but just about everything else one could of in regards to abuse by men. I still have nightmares. I have worked through some things, but some issues seem to be branded into my brain and I don't know how to erase them or even say I'm okay with it now..because I am not okay with it, I get very angry, which is probably the trigger for when I have physically abusive with men. I hate to see anyone suffer but like you said it is like snapping..and then we just go off and feel so ashamed later. Hang in there hon, it's got to get better. I will say a prayer for you tonight. If you ever need to talk..I am here.

Many hugs and hope too,
Tammie

Lilya

Thanks Tammy and bless you.

I already feel better. I just don´t know how to tackle this. I wish more women would speak out - it´s not as uncommon as one might think. I often work as a volunteer in a Women´s shelter (yes, pretty ironic) but we get lots of male callers too with battered male syndrome.

There is the rage inside of me towards men I don´t seem to able to calm, but I will certainly go on trying.:shades:

Ha s anyone tried cognitive therapy for similar purpose?

margo

(((((Lilya))))) I hadn't read your post until today. My heart just hurts for you and it is very humbling to read this chapter of your life that you have shared with us. I too have picked the "bad boys" all my life, including my current relationship, and they have never had happy endings. I am finally learning, though, that it really is about me, not them, and I am doing what I can now to work through this and I'm beginning to really understand that I do deserve better. The one thing that I wanted to suggest is for you is to take a look at the PTSD forum on this board, as well as this one. I think you will find the forum really helpful. MG is the moderator there and she knows of so many different resources for help. You have been through many traumatic experiences in your life and that forum may help you with some of these other issues, as well.

Love and hugs.

Lilya

Dear Margo,

Thank you so much for your kind reply. I have been mainly in the Bi-Polar/Depression forum lately, but I do believe you´re right about the PTSD. I posted some replies there before, but it seemed so overwhelming.
I am trying to take this difficult problem one day at the time and sometimes I have to let go completely to approach it again.

I think that somewhere along the line I got stuck and couldn´t work the problem. I was also in denial about it until lately.

I feel hopeful because I´m over the denial and can face it. It was unbearable to realize I was a man-beater. But with the help of my therapist it all came out. I´m in the process of healing myself.

Thank you for your support,

All the best to you,

Love and light,

margo

(((((Lilya))))) You are incredibly brave. I'm glad to know that you've been posting over there, and I understand completely how overwhelming it can be at times. You've got some good experience under your belt and a lot of self-knowledge, and that will help you so much on your path of healing. Overcoming denial is such a huge step, and you have every right to feel hopeful. Hang on to it - you've worked really hard for that.

Love and hugs to you.

imatradin

been while since i last posted but i admire your honesty in admitting some major issues with you concerning relationships but i truly believe we are the meanest to ourselves first in that we deny ourselves the good things in life whether it be in relationships, work, and almost anything other thing in our lives..i must admit i truly have never learned the right way to be in many situation and it makes it harder just to be me for whom i am...michael

still learning

(((Lilya))) Thank you so much for sharing. You opened my eyes to my own RAGE and anger about choosing another one of these @#%^* maggots! I created this great guy (in my eyes). He was able to adjust and act his way to my heart. I was so angry the other day when he was at my computer (there's a lot more to this story) I felt total searing, blue passion toward him - a pretty scary feeling! I keep going to see "Chicago" and keep playing the CD over and over to give myself the courage to feel the RAGE and get in touch with my feelings by screaming loudly at the top of my lungs and dancing with the music to get it all out! I'm moving beyond beating myself up - it takes a lot of skill to SURVIVE abuse, mental and emotional battering - repeated over the years and triggered by the present situation. One good thing for sure, he and I have been going to a great counselor who says I have a "right to my feelings". I won't pound on him - but I sure feel like it. I can choose to control my behavior. I'm stepping back and observing all my internal feelings - the panic, the anxiety, the gut-wrenching anger and replacing it with calm and detachment. I'm getting to the place where I don't care and that feels good to me!

It's so good to be able to share here. (((HUGS))) Lilya for giving me insight to my own recovery.

Lilya

Thank you both for responding and thanks for the input. It made me think about the good things in life and if I really knew what they are.

I feel I have come a long way since I started this thread, thanks to your wonderful support. I´m celibate at the moment and trying to clear my thoughts. Right now I´m trying to be good to myself and thinking about the good things in life. I love my work, my pets, my travels and I´m blessed with good friends. This is a long learning process and I value good input on my journey. I´m glad I could help you, Still Learning and Margo. Your tips for anger management are great and I´m going to try them. Let´s continue to help each other.

still learning

(((Lilya))) I just went out with my lady friends to see Chicago for the 4th time! Wow! It is so incredible! Had a very full day with friends, too. The weekend was very good indeed! I have a little dog - that I love, too. My family and friends are standing by me and giving me love and encouragement, too. Thank you again. We can do it!