prettywoman

Hiya my sweet friends........I want to talk about EXCUSES for a moment. Most of you know my story by now and seen me post here for a while now.

Sometimes I come of very harsh but I asure you that I respect each and everyone and you have become very important to me.

I want to talk about the excuses that are being made.............you all know what I am talking about.
We as women were born free and strong! Meaning the cave days are over ladies . That means, it is OK to have our own wants and needs. It is OK to be selfish and look for our own needs. The hard cold ugly truth as I see it is this................you CHOOSE to be with an Alcoholic! If you did not , you would not still be there for those who have not left yet! I am not a woman that is going to pussyfoot around on here and just tell you how sorry I am that you are going through this bad stuff, no! Why? because you are doing it to yourself ladies!

Stop making excuses, stop acting like a victim and take charge of your life once and for all. You have one life to live , there are no second chances. If you need help, get it! I mean really get help! Writing on here is only a part of it all. Stop saying things over and over and nothing is being done! Stop giving these miserable men in your life all this power! What right do they have to destroy your live ? NO RIGHT! So take charge! Get up and get out there and be a STRONG WOMAN! You have choices! I am tired of seeing women complain yet they do nothing! Your A knows this to. He does not respect you! NO! To him you are a doormat. I am tired of hearing about how alcoholics are just ill , let's feel sorry for them, please! I know alcoholism is an illness, I understand that BUT they have a choice of getting HELP! and they chose to stick with it or not! Some food for thought................after putting up with all the bull, all the abuse and then they finally get help, go to recovery...come home and all is suposed to be well , no ladies this is when hell life no 2 starts, sobriety. You haven't seen anything yet because at times you wish he was still drinking at least you learned over the years how to deal with that. A lot of guys after they stop drinking can't wait to run and find another woman WHY? because you REMIND HIM of his BADS! .....................think about this before you continue making EXCUSES! If you chose to stay with your A that is your choice and I say you have nothing to complain about because you WANT to be there!

Everytime you ALLOW a man to abuse you , you are enabling him to do it over and over again until you put a stop to it! Is that what you want your children to learn? Children learn by what they see you do, remember that!

Wow ok I said a lot! But this is hard cold truth ladies....................let's be strong women and fight this with everything you got. You are a strong , beautiful woman ! Think about that the next time you make and excuse why you still there.............going through all of this bad stuff.

You do not have to like what I say. Everyone has their own opinion and I have great repsect for this. I still love and repsect all of you either way!!

Get and READ the book..............Why Men Love Bitches.......by Sherry Argove......I dare you to buy it and read it and LEARN from it! There is a beautiful life without abuse out there ladies, all you have to do is WANT it bad enough!

EmotionalMeg

Hi Prettywoman,
That was great - I feel this way too... Just haven't felt empowered enuf to SAY it.
Good for you, and GO GIRL!

Thanks
Meg

lyn_blossom78

Hmmmmmm, Prettywoman, how can I put this, since this post has really ummmm, shall I say frustrated me?

It's easy for someone to say, just leave him! You don't have to put up with that! You choose to be abused when you choose to stay with him. Saying and doing are 2 completely different things.

Personally, I married a man that didn't drink. He had problems, yes, that I couldn't see, because I was raised by an abusive, alcoholic father, and thought all that was normal. But, until he started drinking, he was sane! He made good decisions. He was a great father. Yes, he expected a lot out of me, but I didn't mind. Yes, we had our problems, but we worked them out. He adored me! I adored him! I thought he was the smartest man on earth! I thought he was the funniest man on earth.

In addition to that, I truly believe divorce is wrong. I truly believe Satan would like to end all Christian marriages--and works hard at it.

Squinty didn't start drinking anything until we were married 10 years, and then just sometimes, socially. We have a 25-year business, that is growning--together, as well as 22 years of marriage. We have 5 wonderful children together. It wasn't until 3 years ago, when Squinty lost a sister to cancer and a brother to a heart attack that he went into a depression that lead to him drinking constantly.

Now, that he is an alcoholic--a very sick man--does that mean I pack up all we ever had together and leave? I don't think so! So, I stick with him, work on ME, because that's what I CAN do, and give it to my HP, who knows much more about where this is leading than I do. When my HP lets me know it's time for me to leave, THEN I will.

Yes, he's abusive (verbally), and he is mean and nasty--but, I'm learning to deal with it intelligently. I'm not suffering in silence--I'm doing something about it. But I'm not throwing in the towel.

Lyn

lyn_blossom78

Geesh! We Codies take things so personally, don't we?

Lyn

EyesOpen

Prettywoman:

You go girl! You might want to check out the site at www.empoweredrecovery.com for more fuel for your position.

Lyn:

Last summer, I backed off from divorcing my A, because I thought that I would be failing as a Christian. I too had an image of Satan rejoicing at the demise of another marriage. I certainly didn't want to do anything that would offend God and please Satan.

But, this year I am rejecting that line of thinking.

Scripture states that we are to speak the truth in love to our brothers. If they don't listen, then we to wipe the dust off of our feet and move on. We are also instructed that drunkeness is a sin.

I have tried and tried to get my husband to understand that he is ill and that he needs help. He will not listen to me or anyone else.

I have prayed for the ability to maintain my joy around him, but I can't seem to do it.

I can endure all kinds of hardships, but this one is due to someone's life choice...

Prettywoman is right! There are two ways to deal with alcohol abuse. Either the A gets help and returns to normal living, or the family has to put some distance between them.

Alcoholism is a PROGRESSIVE disease. It wasn't until my 12th year of marriage that things got bad. By the 14th year, I couldn't stand to be in the same room with him.

I am glad that your marriage still has something in it for you at this time. I pray that your A turns things around while there's still a meaningful relationship.

As far as "packing up all you ever had together" goes, that's the past. Looking back on all the good times has a certain nostalgic appeal, but it's history. It's not the future. Being sentimental is no reason to give your present and future away.

Hope I didn't offend.........

lyn_blossom78

Eyes Open:

I agree that scripture says to speak the truth in love to our brothers...... that would be our brothers in Christ. At this point, I don't believe he is a brother in Christ. But I am a Christian, and God also says that if you are married to a non-Christian that he may choose to leave the Christian (not the other way around). On the other hand it says that a Christian staying with a non Christian may lead the non Christian to Christ. This is my hope!

The main point I was trying to make is....... that everyone needs to wait to make their "decisions" when the time is right for them. Not just because someone else points a finger at them and says you're living in abuse! You shouldn't be there! If you choose to be there, you chose to be abused! Timing is everything, and not everyone here knows what is right for you particularly. Not everyone has the strength within them when they start at square one to "get out" of their situation. That doesn't make them wrong!

I believe some situations are just far more complicated than just fine! I'll leave this situation then!

Lyn

ODAT

Choices

Usually what precludes choice is knowledge and options. Meaning that before a person actually has a choice to make, they have to be aware of the choice and be able to viably see what the options are. It is one thing to say 'go this way or go that way, but what happens if the other way appears to lead somewhere off down the path of financial ruin and less growth than the path one is on? And that is supposing that one is healthy enough to see these choices.

My daughter tells me sometimes of the things her father says to her. About how she was a mistake etc because I got pregnant with her and her brother when he did not 'choose' to have them. He is wrong though. She was 'chosen' and as such was wanted by me at least. He often sits back and criticizes my choices. Yes, in having her I chose the consequences that came along with having a daughter. And in leaving him I also made the choice to take a much harder route in many ways.

I think it is very easy to look at a situation from the outside and say 'you have choice, use it' when in actual fact from the position of the person IN that situation, the choices are not so obvious. Certainly sometimes life gets better with the alcoholic out of the house. But sometimes it doesn't. I have seen women who left the abusive alcoholic and have from there suffered very much in a system that is equally as abusive and far less profitable, raising their children on far less than poverty and having to grovel to the government for every penny they got....sometimes for many years untill they could finally work themselves. And I have also seen many husbands and wives that after years of drinking DID finally get their stuff together and go into recovery.

On the flip side, I have witnessed people who went into recovery because of the marital split up , where the co-dependant stayed with their own recovery and eventually the family made it back together again.......and I have seen those where they family didn't make it back and the 'wife and kids' did remarkably well on their own.

Thing is, is you just never know. If we all had a crystal ball that could tell us what was going to hapen with any path we looked at going down......well, we would probably all know exactly when to buy that lottery ticket.

While I support the notion that we all have choice and do find that at times to be very empowering, still I must have respect for those along the path who are still struggling to find their way. It was not that long ago for me where I was so depressed and couldn't even get up in the morning because I honestly didn't see my choices and hence.....had none. It took a few years in Alanon and other recovery places to get to the place where I realized I had choices...and still further to gain the courage and the skills to actually make healthy ones.

Before you can see that black is black, you must first be introduced to white. And that doesn't happen overnight, no matter how much we might wish it did.

Rosedreamer

Thank you Prettywoman, quite a motivational speech. Unfortunately everything isnt that black and white. Wish it was. Still your words are inspiring. Might help some of us take some action or make some changes. There's always hope.

spedteach

Prettywoman,
I respect your thoughts and yes, what you said is very powerful. However, everything isn't that black and white. Just wanted to let you know, the first time I read your post, I was a little taken back but then I re-read it and the sentence (sorry if it's wrongly quoted) "Sometimes I come across harsh...." hit me. I realize that you meant nothing negative and only positive to all of us!

You reminded me that it's okay to be selfish...something I forget sometimes...

I've never felt like a victim, but for me, it has been more about being a failure...I am a classic over-achiever and have been successful in every other aspect of my life...but that's something that I NEED to get over...and I am although it is a slow process.

The only concern I have is that I hope your frankness and bluntness (I love those qualities...I think of it as assertive...not aggressive ) will not cause others to be afraid to post their stories, views, fears..whatever.

Thanks!

EmotionalMeg

Hi again,
When I first read your post prettywoman, I DID realize that you were not meaning offense to anyone; when we are living thru what WORKS for us, we are empowered.

But, I guess I didn't feel like I needed to respond with any contradictions; I just wanted to congradulate you on your strength. There are a lot of reasons why I agree with your position - I DO believe that sometimes we make choices that may not be "right", but are safe - we hang on to the hope that "things will be different". There are times when we need to stop being afraid, and make the decision that hurts, in order to be healthy. For example: A woman who is married to an alcoholic who abuses her, has probably made the decision to stay 100 times - it is safe. And maybe, just maybe, he'll change one day. And when/if this woman decides that she will leave, she has put herself out on the line; she is vulnerable, she is afraid, she is now in the "unknown". Eventually the realization that simply by NOT being abused and degraded, she is healthier... hopefully she can gain back her sense of self-worth and enjoy the peace.

However, my situation with my alcoholic husband is NOT this way. He does not abuse me or degrade me; I do not SUFFER at his hands.... and I am certainly NOT his doormat. I think that your points are VERY valid, but like the others said, things are not that black and white. If one is strong enough to have sought their OWN recovery (in alanon / naranon), than they have started to put themselves FIRST; take care of themselves; make healthy decisions - these are choices too.

MY recovery helps ME to stay healthy; my husbands recovery helps HIM to stay healthy - And we meet somewhere in the middle. My needs / wants are not comprimised here. I get what I want out of life because I seek it. I am still able to maintain a relationship with my husband - AND it's working .

As far as it goes with where my spirituality enters in to all of this... it is on more of a personal level; my husband and I are NOT married because we are christians. In fact, we were of no denomination when we met. Thru his recovery, mu husband is discovering Christianity, and is developing his own relationship with God; I am too. But our marriage does not survive because of our beliefs... Hmmmm, I am sure many of you would have something to say about this. Thats OK... It's working for me

Thanks for letting me respond!
Take care
Meg

lolobug3

I really wish things were that easy whenever we get in a horrible situation. Unfortunately, we are all not that strong. We have been brought up in horrible situations and we have to gain the strenth and wisdom we all need to leave the horrible situation first. If that means staying in it and learning along the way, then so be it. Your post is very inspiring though. Makes me feel worth it anways! Thanks - Lolobug

lyn_blossom78

Taira, Rosedreamer, Spedteach and Lolobug, Well said! You said it just like I meant it

I asked Smoke awhile back to have her Dinotaur look into his crystal ball and see if there was a great future for me ahead--and the next thing I knew, it blew up--so, I hope it wasn't a sign!:p

Anyways, Prettywoman--I admire your strength! Everyone has choices to make. Some of us, though are square pegs, and we just don't necessarily fit in those little round holes. You can call them excuses if you like, but I like to think of them as reasons. Reasons that we have analyzed, and come to a reasonable decision--for now--on. That doesn't mean our circumstances won't change tomorrow, and we'll be a little rounder on the corners--then perhaps we'll fit into that hole a little better.

For some, that may be to leave. Some, that may be to work on themselves until they are able to stand up on their own 2 feet, and because of that their situations miraculously change for the better, because they are better able to handle it. I believe that's what's happening in my life. I have changed for the better--I'm stronger--and so, I'm not an easy push-over anymore. No, it's not perfect--but it's so much better, and I sure don't put up with much anymore!

Hugs to all,
Lyn

countrygirl

HI, Prettywoman, just want to say I am glad you are here. I had just a couple of thoughts, they are mine, hey. You know about opinions ....

One, I know you are trying to help others and yourself. Bless you.

Two, I think you must have been terribly hurt. I'm sorry. But I am glad you have survived.

Three, for what it is worth - the reason I am still in my marriage. This is not my first relationship with an A. Big surprise, eh? Before I handled it different ways, gradulally improving but in the end I always left. I thought I had learned my lesson but sooner or later, I found myself getting involved with another A. That is because I hadn't changed. I still had the same problems, I still made the same choices.

What is it that they say, that you have to keep repeating the lesson until you finally learn?

So here I am again, same situation. This time I am going to face it. I am not going to run away. I am going to stay and do what I have to do to solve my own problems. That is the only way things are going to be okay for me. Face it.

Also - I love my husband very much and he loves me. Things can get bad but very seldom is there any flat out meanness. Of course, any is too much and it is so distressing. But there are also parts of our life together that are very good. Every situation is different.

If it turns out I am wrong, well, every day is a new day. We get lots of chances.

PS. Of course, if the situation is dangerous, you have to leave.

prettywoman

Hi Meg! Thank you and everyone for your response to what I posted. I know it was very powerful and I am glad it was not taken in disrespect for you or anyone else on here. I do believe it is black and white! No doubt in my mind because our well being is number one and that ladies is not to be toyed with. There is no gray area when it comes to abuse. Everyone makes their choices in life to what is best for them and I simply respect that. As adults we may do as we wish but our children deserve more.God Bless you Meg and everyone on here! You are very special!

prettywoman

Hi countrygirl thank you for your sweet reply (hug).

I am sorry but ANY MAN that abuses you does NOT love YOU! That is NOT LOVE! I do not care what you or anyone else tells me. The problems is this....you must love and respect yourself 1st before you can even begin to allow another human being to love you back in a healthy way.

Yes I was very hurt but I took my hurt and got out as fast as I could. Perhaps in my case I saw it coming right at the beginning and not ever having had anything like this happening to me gave me the motivation to leave as well as respecting myself and loving myself enough to do so.

No man will ever respect a woman that does not respect herself it is not happening ladies!

Remembering the "GOOD TIMES" with these alcoholics is a trap that will keep you in a relationship....why? because it is blinding.

I did the very same thing when I first noticed something was wrong. The 1st thing that popped in my mind was " oh but we have such good times" the sex is so great" maybe if I hang on a little longer he will get better" BULL! That will never happen.

I notice that I started to become someone I could not even respect. It was like watching a horror movie and I was the director......it scared the living daylight out of me.

It took me 6 month from the day I left this abuser to be ok again and I consider myself very blessed. I came out of this ok and so will my unborn children because they will have a healthy and strong mom to raise them.

So I understand it. I understand all the "Excuses" that are being made to stay.

Yes, I still love him and I always will but I will not stay with him or anyone that will abuse me.

I am not saying that leaving is what you or anyone should do. You are in charge of you and your life. If this is what makes oyu happy so be it.

When you get healthy, when you feel that you deserve so much more, when you truly and I mean truly love yourself everything else will follow and you will understand that you are worth so much more.

I wish you luck in your journey.................,much love(hug)



It takes strong woman
To be in love with a man
When she knows he's not treating her right

It takes a strong woman
To not confront her man
When he didn't come home last night


It takes a strong woman
To close her eyes
And not see what is in front of her face


It takes a strong woman
To keep up her man's lies
When another woman is taking her place


It takes a strong woman
To sacrifice her own happiness
Just to make her house a home


It takes a strong woman
To live with a cheating man
Instead of living alone

think about this poem for a moment...............it takes all your strength to go through the hardship in your life with an A..............it will only take you a third of your strength to start a new life in serenity and love.......and waking up in the morning knowing that it is going to be a beautiful day because you in it and you are making healthy choices for yourself because you now that you are worth it....just some food for thought:-)

constant

Prettywoman,

Some of us didn't even realize the situation that we were in until YEARS had gone by and children were born. I NEVER thought about my husband being an alcoholic until about 3 years ago. I was in complete denial! If I go back a little further I was right there partying with him.....and most of our friends. We met in High School and started partying then. EVERY weekend we drank. We could by beer by the gallon at the corner store even being under aged. So it took me years to realize that there was a REAL problem. I quit partying he didn't, but it still took MORE time to come out of denial. We have been together 20 years, married 15 and have 3 kids and now that I have come out of denial and am seeking help, your telling me that it is black and white? Teenage boys with no father in the house will be VERY tough.....my 12 year old is giving us a pre-view of things to come.

I have to agree that I won't keep myself in this situation forever if the drinking continues, but for now while I am working on my recovery I am OK. My husband hasn't said he is commited to recovery, but he isn't drinking now and has been great. I pray that he continues down that path.

I know what you're trying to say and if I were being physically abused or the children things would be different. He is a great man with some shortcomings.....I know plenty of people that aren't addicts that have other short comings that would be tough to live with.

God is the strength that guides me and I believe that he will let me know when enough is enough. For now this is where I am supposed to be.

Constant

prettywoman

Teenage boys with no father in the house is tough yes.....but what are the alternatives to that? teenage boys in the house and the father is an A? what example are we teaching those children? I am going to be bringing up my unborn child alone and yes I know it is going to be tough but I rather have this kind of tough then teaching him that it is ok to be abused or to drink his life away .

As you can see I have no mercy for an A. And yes they to deserve our love but they will never deserve my respect.

I understand what you are saying. Yes it is true even "normal people" have their bad sides but lets be for real, living with an A is hell a hell I escaped from just in time.

I wish you many blessings on your journey and sending you much love. Be strong and always believe in yourself but most of all love yourself enough to make changes.

(((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))))))

ODAT

Things used to be so black and white for me too. At one time black, then both. Everything was an either or situation. Now I am learning that although there is still black and white, there are also many, many shades of grey inbetween.

Not every alcoholic is truly abusive and not every man who is truly abusive is an alcoholic. And whereas in some situations a man can be very abusive to one woman, the same man can be far less so with another. My parents relationship, for example, was very abusive...and yet in his present relationship my father is not abusive. Can I close my eyes to this and just claim that things are always one way...or do I honestly look at my parents relationship and see how both of them were responsible for how things happened?

What I am learning about abuse is that seldom is it all one person in any relationship that is always the abuser and the other the victimn. Those roles are shifted and shared between the two parties involved and the entire dance is a continuous circle and cycle. Certainly, one party may be more predominantly abusive but more often than not, both parties view the other as being abusive and this makes sense to me now, as does the statement that abuse will end in a relationship in either one of 3 ways.....when the relationship ends by either separation or divorce, the death of one or both parties through suicide or other means, or when one or both parties obtains help and stops the dance.

See, what I have learned is that if I am truly to be responsible for my behaviour, I can no longer point the finger at him and claim its all 'his' fault....or my only fault was that I was so nice. Neither can I look at myself and claim that it was all my fault either...though I can certainly look at what it is that I am doing to continue the dance and ask God to help me change this. Usually, the me being nice thing....was not such a me being nice...but more me operating from some other less honourable motivation labelled under the umbrella of 'me being nice'. And if I were to honestly look at my behaviour, I can not truthfully say that I was never at fault, nor can I say that I was never abusive back to him. I yelled, I raised my voice, I used tears in attempts to manipulate, I took stuff that wasn't mine (hiding his beer is still taking stuff that isn't mine), and honestly, at times it was kind of nice to be able to sit back and say how terrible he was in the hopes of making me feel like a better person.

Through the program I get to look at MY behavior. I get to focus on how and why I have certain behaviours and such, and one of those behaviours that I have learned to try and cramp is the finger pointing and the blanket statements. Am not that good at it yet....its still easier to forget that when I point a finger at someone else I have one pointing up to God and a few pointing right back at me. It can be much easier to focus on the abusive behaviour of someone else and blind myself to my own....but I am getting better. When I think back to the relationships that I left, and look at how I behaved, I can honestly say that there were times when I instigated or kept an arguement going that escalated when it would have been much smarter and better to just keep quiet. There were also times where had I have behaved differently...took more risk...things would likely have turned out very differently with or without the continuence or the ending of the relationship.

Certainly if he is following me from room to room yelling and such then there is not much I can do other than to leave for a time. But if he is just angry and I start yelling or complaining or whatever to him.....well......I have to someday admit that I have at times been responsible for throwing that lit match into the amunition dump.

And now, when I look at the behaviour of my children....and see how often one will instigate the other....and then claim victimn when the other finally blows up.....well......thankfully through the program I can hopefully teach my children better than I was taught....and hopefully stop the cycle fully for them also. Too many times have I seen and heard of the dry-alcoholic family where no alcohol is or has been present in the family for years and years....and yet for some reason the cycle of alcoholic behaviour keeps getting passed on down.

Certainly in some cases for the safety and welfare of the persons involved it is better to leave. Even if just for a while. But often times it can be far more beneficial for the family to stay together....and to work diligently on stopping the behaviour rather than the method that I chose.

JustFedUp

Dayum! Prettywoman! LOL, I just sat here spewing my thoughts, lookin for some non sugar coated advise, and came upon you post. You're the best!!!! And I thank you for that post, I NEEDED IT!

I'll be quite honest, I have no intentions of leaving my "A", I got the rude awakening last night that my "A" was ten times better than just about every man out there (not like I'd be lookin if I left LOL). My "A" isn't really "abusive" he just tends to annoy me severly when he's drinking. He only turns into an azz when I tell him to get out of my face when he's been drinking. I just loathe the brilliant man I love when he's drinking because he becomes a tard! In everyday life, he's brilliant, respected, etc... When he drinks his IQ level drops to that of a mongaloid, yet he thinks he's brilliant. I HATE that.

I could also just be making excuses. LOL, Who the hell knows. I reckon I'll figure it out eventually.

lyn_blossom78

IF I made a decision to leave Squinty now, we would end up with shared parenting! It's my word against his in court. The kids would be subjected to his alcoholism half the time anyways, and then I wouldn't be there to shield them from the brunt of it. At least now, I can help the situation a little--divert him, if I have to during his worst times. It wouldn't be as ideal as it all sounds leaving him.