Just how much CAN we be involved?

Old 06-04-2003, 09:38 AM
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Just how much CAN we be involved?

Hi guys,
I have a dilemma... Of course, I turn to you knowledgeable folks .

When my husband began his recovery about 1 1/2 months ago, his sponser helped to see all the things he had to CHANGE in his life, to maintain his sobriety. Such as, NOT hangin' around people who drink, NOT going to wedding receptions, parties etc, NOT taking "road trips" by himself...He also had to give up one his favorite things - Hockey (he plays on a AAA Mens hockey team - he's the goalie), because guess what they do in the locker room?! And besides that, there are at least 3 people on that team who I KNOW are addicts / Alcoholics.

And it's only been 1 1/2 months and he has already considered the possibility of playing hockey in October... He says "Well, by then I'll have 6 months of sobriety... It shouldn't be a problem". AND his buddy is getting married in August and for his stag they are going on a White Water Rafting / Camping trip; which actually sounds like a blast and is right up his alley. BUT, what do you think the boys are gonna do when there are not in the boats, and have settled down at camp for the night??? Exactly... the beer will come out. But, there he goes... he put his deposit down on the trip already - he's going.

Now, I KNOW that I am powerless... HE has to make these decisions, and deal with the temptations etc. But it was not so long ago that he told me "Honey, this is really important to me... I want you to CALL ME on it if you can see the triggers, and the destructive behavior returning". Um, HELLO!!! I tried to voice my opinions last night, and he was so defensive. Part of me is nagging at me because it seems like that damn Alcoholic demon is working his magic again... What the heck do I do?!

I even thought so far as to talk to his sponser, because I KNOW my hubby wouldn't bring it up himself... because he KNOWS what his sponser will tell him. Hmmmmm... now if that isn't a clue I don't know what is. But, here's where I have to keep my "hands off"... I can't exactly be going behind my hubbys back, as he will soon lose trust in his sponser, you know?

anyway, let me know what you think
Meg
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Old 06-04-2003, 09:55 AM
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Well Meg, I think you already know the answer to your questions. We can't make the decisions for them......you tried to discuss it and you got the common response.......very defensive.......he knows better, but he is choosing to do it anyway. This is where you get to sit back and let him self distruct!! Maybe he won't or maybe he will get through all of it with-out using, but he KNOWS that he shouldn't be making these kinds of plans. Don't "plan" or "predict" before it happens it is a waste of you time and energy and definately won't change the out come. It will only put wear and tear on you that is unecessary. Let him carry out his plans and you continue to work on your recovery. Make some plans of your own and concentrate on YOU!!

I know, it isn't much, but it is all I have to offer now. Stay strong and true to your own recovery!

Constant
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Old 06-04-2003, 10:09 AM
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That....what Constant said!

I think at one point my husband wanted me to "warn" him if I saw triggers or signs of relapse. Let me tell ya, it's a lose-lose situation. Think about it: If you see the signs and tell him, he'll just deny it, get all defensive, and might even blame you for "putting those thoughts in his head". If you see the signs and don't tell him, if he relapses, why then I guess it's YOUR fault, since you saw the signs but didn't say anything!

That's why we have to detach and keep our hands off. Whatever he decides to do is his decision. You can sit back silently and shake your head to yourself, but in the end, it's all on him. Don't call his sponsor, keep working on YOUR recovery, and pray when the time comes he has the strength and enough recovery to make it through without relapsing.

Hugs,
JG
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:12 PM
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Ahhhhh.... the wisdom

Thanks Constant and JG, Darn it all... My conscience WAS right!! I DID already know the answers to my questions, but it helps knowing my mind was working right

And hey... I never thought about the GOOD that could come out of it - watching him self-destruct (aren't I mean?). After all, if he chooses to use I don't have to be feel responsible for anything right?! Hopefully the lessons that come out of it help him on his journey... But darn it! I hate to even THINK that he chooses to drink - I keep asking myself When the heck is he gonna GET IT?!!!

Anyhow.. this all leads to back to me in a HUGE way. I am very adament about focusing on MY best interests etc. and I told him that he could not live with me and the kids if he was actvely using - makes sense to me for various reasons. BUT, how specific do I need to be? I KNOW I made the boundary for ME, for MY peace etc... but what if he slips ONCE? Is that reason to enforce this boundary? Am I giving him false information by NOT kicking him out if he slips during thses excursions? I am somewhat bewildered



Thanks guys
Meg
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Old 06-04-2003, 12:25 PM
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Ah yes - the old "tell me if you see relapse behaviour" story. My son has tried that and it didn't work either. Now I tell him that if he is working his program, he will see his own relapse behaviour and do what he wants with it.

Good girl!!! Hands off!!! Don't forget that his sponsor is powerless too, he can only suggest what works for others, but the real work is up to the addict.
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:11 PM
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>>>Anyhow.. this all leads to back to me in a HUGE way. I am very adament about focusing on MY best interests etc. and I told him that he could not live with me and the kids if he was actvely using - makes sense to me for various reasons. BUT, how specific do I need to be? I KNOW I made the boundary for ME, for MY peace etc... but what if he slips ONCE? Is that reason to enforce this boundary? Am I giving him false information by NOT kicking him out if he slips during thses excursions? I am somewhat bewildered <<<

I want to hear the responses to this same question, please. I set the same boundary for the sake of myself and my daughter just 4 days ago. I was 1 month separated from my AH and he asked to come back. I set the boundary and he agreed to stop drinking and has been sober.

But last night and today he started the talk I recognize as the beginning of his relapse. He started saying he doesn't have a problem and he only quit for me and no one else thinks he should have to and I am wrong... etc etc etc I stayed true to myself and said only he can decide if he needs to stop, he shouldn't stop for me as we know that will not succeed, and he should just simply move back out and do as he pleases. He stopped talking about it last night and we were fine all evening. But this afternoon it started again, with him saying "I'm not happy." He listed many reasons that were quite silly (mostly blaming me for things) and would agree when I would deny them, and finally he got to the true one "I don't see why I can't drink."

Again I said that I simply will not go through another round of demial and if he is not ready for recovery I just wanted him to move on. He said I don't love him and I said of course I do. I said someday he will look back and realize how much I did and I hope he tells me then. He was very quiet and I knew he was back with me as far as recognizing his problem. I said maybe you should go to a meeting and he said "Yeah, maybe I will."

I know he won't. But this is an example of how he is already slipping in and out of denial, on the 3rd day of sobriety. I am preparing for the inevitable, that I will have to enforce my boundary. I'll take any and all thoughts, I am feeling very vulnerable right now.
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Old 06-04-2003, 02:43 PM
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relapse?

Your post brought to mind the THREE C's...didn't CAUSE it, can't CONTROL it...and can't CURE it.

When i tried to manipulate the way he lived his life, I ahd to remind myself..there is not one thing I can do if he decides to relapse. A camping trip...a wedding reception...might be red alert areas for some people...but there are also some who can interact there and not let it get to them. They can go with the gang and not imbibe.

I was not powerful enough to get mine to stop...and if he relapses one day, I KNOW it will not be anyting I did or anything I coudl have done to manipulate him into it not happening. In the opening...this is what i think they mean by "trying to force solutions".

So sit back..let him go on the trip...try not to obsess about the what-ifs...and instead use that time to go to an AlAnon retreat or at least some extra meetings. Working on myself and avoiding interferring with his choices, sure made my life alot happier.

LIN
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Old 06-04-2003, 03:06 PM
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These boundaries are tricky business. Alyx posted a lot of good stuff about enforceable boundaries in a reply to Glenda's Violation of Curfew thread on Nar-anon.

I have never said to my DH that he had to leave if he was actively using, b/c I knew it was something I could never enforce. In terms of his using, I couldn't determine or plan in advance what my breaking point would be. If he were still using, I think when enough was enough, I would just wake up one day and say, "That's it, I can't take anymore, I'm out." Then, once he made it into recovery, I felt that as long as I knew he was actively working his recovery, I could deal with slips now and then b/c I know they happen - it's reality. This boundary business isn't about dictating his using and his recovery. It's absolutely knowing what you will and won't put up, and sometimes you might not know when enough is enough until you actually hit that bottom or breaking point. JT has said it really well, "I may be living like this now, but I won't always live this way." (She said it much better! )

BUT! For those who absolutely know you cannot live with your SO's taking another drink, then the answer is clear. If he slips, drinks, relapses, whatever, then he has to go or you have to go, if that's the boundary you plan to stick by. There shouldn't be any exceptions, b/c then they won't respect you for changing your mind, and they will always look for that loophole or a way to get around your defenses. If that boundary seems to hard to stick with, then try to come up with something else you CAN live with.
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Old 06-04-2003, 04:39 PM
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Thanks JG and lin,
I guess I just couldn't convince myself that if he slips, we could still be together... but I guess I am not giving him much room either. It's hard to decide what is acceptable and what is not. I WANT to just say that relapses are a part of his recovery and as long as he is motivated to want to keep working at it, I can live with that. BUT, my mind is not letting me accept it.

I guess I am still holding on to the anger a little bit.
I am also afraid to let my guard down - I have things working quite well right now thank you! If he slips, it'll put a kink in my plans!

Geesh, how pathetically codependant I am ... The control issues, the fear, the obsessiveness.

I am going to really let this sink in today - Oh oh! I have a meeting tonite . I think I'll speak :p

Take care
Meg
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Old 06-04-2003, 05:48 PM
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Hi Meg

There is only one answer to the question....................leave it alone! Let him deal with it all! You do as you please and I know it gets sooooooooooo confusing at times. You already know the answer , listen to your inner:-) Focus in you and you alone!

Huggs
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Old 06-05-2003, 05:58 AM
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Meg,
I have to agree with everyone. Let him decide. You can't control him.

I wish I had something else wise to say but I don't. My husband is now over 70 days sober. He has encountered invitations to retirement parties (but found excuses not to attend. He says that he is not ready for that yet). He is not comfortable telling others that he does not drink (other that people in AA).

One thing though - he has another addiction. FISHING!!! We joke that before we got married I signed a blood oath that he would be 'allowed' to go fishing at least once a week for the rest of his life. He usually goes with his brother and their friends. Of course his brother knows about his situation. We also figured that his brother told some of his friends because after they fish they usually go back to one friend's house while they clean fish and drink (beer and homemade wine - yikes!!!). We'll the friend now offers my husband soda. Fortunately, he has gone fishing a few times and he is actually still able to enjoy himself without drinking. It is a big relief off my mind too because depending on where they decide to fish - it could be a long drive home.

I believe that I have to let him go fishing. This is something he loves to do. He quit drinking and smoking this year. He NEEDS to have a way to be himself and relax.

NoDoubt
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