tollbooth

My meeting tonight in alanon was about detachment. As we read from odat, and the members described their view, the more confused I became about it. I'd like to hear more insight from others about your feelings on detaching from the A, and how you dealt with the issue of loving them at the same time.

DesertEyes

Hey there tollbooth

The way it works for me is that detachment is the result of the serenity prayer. Detachment means that my emotions don't get in a knot over things I cannot change. I cannot change my ex-wife's addiction, or her preference for married men (besides me ) I used to get completely worked up over her refusal to take action about her addiction, which is "atachment". After a lot of al-anon learning I was able to allow her the dignity of making her own decisions for her life, and stop trying to force her to live her life the way _I_ thought was best.

I still think her life would be better if she quit the dope and the married guys, but I now longer try to force her to agree with me. If she disagrees, oh well, it's her life.

Am I making sense?

Mike

cmc

Hi tollbooth,
Detachment for me involves my thoughts, feelings and actions too. If I am not detached- I will obsess over the other person, I will get depressed if things are bad and overjoyed if things are good with them---my feelings will be enmeshed or reflect whatever is happening to them and how I feel about it.
I can also view detachment as how much I am involved in what that person does, taking care of their needs and/or wants- in particular to the extreme- and while neglecting myself or others I care about.
I read somewhere about being 'self- less' meaning having no self.(John Bradshaw's writing perhaps?) By detaching I can become myself again and let the other person be who they choose to be.

minnie

This is my fave reading on detachment. It's from Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. Hope it helps.

"A helpful tool in our recovery, especially in the behavior we call detachment, is learning to identify who owns what. Then we let each person own and possess his or her rightful property.

If another person has an addiction, a problem, a feeling, or a self-defeating behavior, that is their property, not ours. If someone is a martyr immersed in negativity, controlling, or manipulative behavior, that is their issue, not ours.

If someone has acted and experienced a particular consequence, both the behavior and the consequence belong to that person.

If some one is in denial or cannot think clearly on a particular issue, that confusion belongs to him or her.

If someone has a limited or impaired ability to love or care, that is his or her property, not ours. If someone has no approval or nurturing to give away, that is that person’s property.

People's lies, deceptions, tricks, manipulations, abusive behaviors, inappropriate behaviors, cheating, and tacky behaviors belong to them as well. Not to us.

People's hopes and dreams are their property. Their guilt belongs to them too. Their happiness and misery are also theirs. So are their beliefs and messages.

If some people don't like themselves, that is their choice. And other people's choices are their property, not ours.

What people choose to say and do is their business.

What is our property? Our property includes our behaviors, problems, feelings, happiness, misery, choices and messages; our ability to love, care, and nurture; our thoughts, our denial, our hopes and dreams for ourselves. Whether we allow ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, deceived, or mistreated is our business.

In recovery, we learn an appropriate sense of ownership. If something isn't ours, we don't have to take it. IF we take it, we learn to give it back. We let other people have their property, and we learn to own and take good care of what's ours.

Today, I will work at developing a clear sense of what belongs to me, and what doesn't. If it's not mine, I won't keep it. I will deal with myself, my issues, and my responsibilities. I will take my hands off what is not mine."

lostnfound1961

This might help you understand a little better. It's from a book I am reading and has helped me a lot.

Detaching From People/Problems that are not yours

Action:
 Write about the person/problem to get it out of your system.
 Focus on your self, what are you thinking and feeling.
 How do you feel about detaching from this person/problem?
 What might happen if you did?
 Will that probably happen anyway?
 Has staying “attached”-worrying, obsessing, trying to control helped so far?

If you did not have this person/problem in your life:
 What would you be doing with your life that is different from what you are doing now?
 How would you be feeling and behaving?
 Visualize your self living your life, feeling and behaving that way in spite of your unsolved problem.
 Visualize your self placing this person/problem you are concerned about in to Gods hands.
 Visualize God lovingly and willingly accepting that person/problem into his hands
 Visualize Gods hands holding yours.

All is well for the moment. All is as it should be and as it needs to be. All will be well-better than you think.

cdk1972

One of you told me earlier to repeat the serenity prayer over and over and over until i "got" it when i asked about detachment...and you know what? It worked. Not at first, but it worked. SAY IT OVER AND OVER. Focusing on the "ACCEPTING THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE". that line has saved my life.

Spiritual Seeker

Loving my alkie (for me it is my son) but not rescuing, enabling or fixing.
Not letting my happiness be dependent on his sobriety
Focusing on my own charactger defects, taking my own inventory and changing the things I have control over...which is not him. Learning to be OKAY without him in my life if that is what it takes. Hating his addiction but having compassion for him.

Marble

i hope you dont mind me butting in but ive read all the literature and the answers which are really insightful and helpful. however im also having problems with it all.... as i have a couple of major sticking points...

one is how do you "detach" from an AH yelling at/ignoring your child for no good reason and they are too young for you to try and explain even that daddy is sick...?

secondly how do you detach from the negatives that stem from his A? eg. financial problems. I mean i have taken control of our finances and basically give AH cash for whatever he wants otherwise the bills wouldnt get paid etc etc but thats controlling not detaching... but if i did detach then we would be bankrupt (literally).

and lastly how on earth do you manage to love someone and care for them without getting hurt by them...

citychick

I'd really like to know the answer to that one too, Marble. If you find an answer please let me know..

embraced2000

in my early days in al-anon, the terms and phrases were like a foreign language to me. detachment? what in the world was that? inventory? again, what was that?

after living with the effects of alcholism, my mind was so frazzled i could not think abstractly......i needed concrete examples of just exactly what someone else did to detach. at first i thought detachment meant ignoring the person, which only added fuel to the fire. i had a lot to learn.

here is an example of detachment from my life......my xh (we were still married at the time) was on a drinking binge and meaner than a snake. he was raising all kinds of hell, terrorizing me verbally, and bullying everyone around me. i used to try to keep things smooth as possible so as not to antagonize him (which turned out nearly impossible to do), but after a while in al-anon, i had learned i did not have to tolerate this behavior in my own home. so while he was on a rant and rage, and threatening me, he threatened to commit suicide. so i called 911. after that, everytime he threatened suicide while drunk or otherwise, i did my civic duty by calling 911. they would take him away, and i knew he was safe, i had peace, and i knew i did not have to worry for that night anyway, if he were going to kill himself.

he got tired of waking up with a hangover in a padded cell, so he quit threatening suicide....however, he switched gears and started threatening my safety....so again, since i knew i did not have to tolerate this threatening, i would call 911 and he would be arrested.

i would not bail him out, because was the consequence of his behavior. i would not accept his phone calls from jail. i would not take him money for commissory.

the yelling and verbal abuse in the home problem? i would leave, because he sure wasn't going to leave while on a rampage. i had a safe kit in my trunk of my car....i had a small stash of money, an overnight bag, an extra set of keys hidden, cell phone charger. when things got too heated, i would not engage....i would leave for the night, untill i could make a plan to have him removed.

trying to make him quit drinking? well, i quit trying. he knew my wishes. that was enough. i quit laying awake at night trying to hatch a plan for curing him. i needed to cure me. so i focused on me by going to al-anon and forming a safety net for myself. when he drank, i quit making comments about it or asking him questions. i knew the answers, so why was i trying to make him admit it? it just made me miserable.

basically, detachment meant to quit doing the things that made me miserable.....like thinking about him all the time, trying to cure him, walking on eggshells, being timid, being uninformed, being unsupported, being vulnerable, allowing myself to be treated so badly.

hope some of this helps

daisies

Detachment is hard. I have tiny victories every day. My health and happiness improve every time I detach.

In response to Marble there was a post here earlier this week by a very insightful individual who said "You cannot love someone you cannot respect" Can you respect someone that continues to hurt you? That is hard to swallow but is a very true statement.

I woke yesterday and it occurred to me that since I am 39 and if I live until I am 80 then half of my life is over. Is this how I want to live? It is time to learn detachment for my health and happiness. I suggest we all learn it to better ourselves. Life is too short.

DesertEyes

Hey there Marble, and pleased to "meet" you

You don't. Detachment is what I do to protect _me_ from the emotional harm of living with an addict. Detachment has nothing to do with protecting others, or with physical harm

Another concept is called "boundaries". A boundary is a behavior that I will _not_ accept in my life. If my ex-wife was too loaded to cook a meal for me I would use detachment to let her sleep it off on the couch while I fixed my own meal. If she tried to cook anyway and fixed a meal that I am allergic too then I established a boundary that I will cook for myself even if she is able to.

Each one of us has to establish what we consider "harmful" (that's the boundary), and what actions we will take in order to prevnet such harm (that's the consequence").

How much harm is "too much" for your child? Where do you draw the line? (boundary) How will you know when the boundary is crossed, and when it is, what will you do about it?

If you browse around the posts here you will see what other people have done in their lives, and you can use their experience to help you see what is best for you and your child.

That's not detachment. You have established a boundary (he doesn't handle the money) and a consequence (you handle _all_ the money yourself) By the way, that's what I did with my ex-wife.

I don't. I will only love those who love me in return. There's a couple lines I've heard from people here on this forum that really work for me:

No woman is worth crying over, and the one that is won't make you.

The minimum I expect from my partner is 100%.

Those two lines tell me that if I am not getting back _equal_ to what I'm putting out in terms of respect, dignity and love then I'm wasting my time and my life.

Mike

Pick-a-name

Hi! Great posts and examples so far (thanks everyone!!) I learned more examples of detatchment,boundaries,etc. in action in "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drws. To "preview" a few chapters, see: http://www.GettingThemSober.com

minnie

To me, detachment is the opposite of enmeshment, a state in which I lived my relationships for a very long time. It means that I am aware that I am me, you are you, and we each take ownership of our own stuff.

When I learnt to detach, I learned to allow others to learn from their own mistakes and gave them the dignity of being responsible for their own life.

As for abuse, physical or verbal, I learnt that no amount of detachment could make it better. As Mike says, that's when boundaries come into play. "I will not allow others to abuse me or those in my care. If you continue to dish out abuse, I will........." Boundaries require action from US, not them, and are very difficult in the beginning, but starting small helps to understand the concept and the power that lies within.

justjo

I battled with this for a long, long time. The only way I could detach was to let them live their lives the way they wanted to and let me live the life I wanted to.
I have detached to the point, I have very, very little to do with them.
"I too was sick of being sick"

mallowcup

For me, detachment was first and foremost a doctrine to live by and then the particulars of walking it out fell into place. What does that mean?
One example is that I don't drink alcohol, I don't care for a social environment that includes drinking.
There was a time when I'd "go along". I'd go to a place I didn't want to go to so that I could be near him, I'd feel included and important to him, I'd drink even though I didn't want to. Drinking means relaxing. If I didn't drink, I wouldn't see him, he was at the bar. I thought to be a part of his life I had to stay in the drinking loop.
Those are many reasons for doing things and associating with bar regulars that do not support my convictions. What did I say?
I don't drink. I don't like being in a social environment that includes drinking. The particulars of each day needed to support my core beliefs. So I got things in line.
I used to hold dinner even though dinner was always at 6pm. I stopped keeping dinners warm until 9pm. I eat at 6pm. I changed my work schedule.
My husband is sober in the morning, so that's when I see him. I work 3-11 now.
I don't want to be around anyone drunk.
What's come out of it is a standard for my own life. Somehow the focus came off of his drinking and the judgement of it.
I think when you have core convictions and you live them, the boundaries form themselves.

sad#3

I attended my first al-anon meeting last week. I don't see how I can detach when our livelihood depends upon her job.. She does listen to me and I do limit her drinking..

sad#3

She had a small bottle of MD20/20 today, which equals about 6 beers. When I first met her she was drinking 80 oz of wine per day, and would still be doing that if not for my intervention. We'll see how it goes. It's very hard sometimes.

mallowcup

Then change your dependence on her job. Consider a change is your own livelihood, scaling down. Your relationship with her and with her first love(alcohol), can become a war. You can bring a cannon to this war and she will bring a tank.
Detaching is laying down your weapon and refusing to fight. Fight smart.
Afterall, she's defining you because of your need for her income. It is your vulnerability, your weak spot.
Don't need her income.

embraced2000

i tried to limit my xh drinking, too. it didn't work. it just caused resentments from him that made things even worse.

i had to make myself independant from him because i could not rely upon him to participate in making good decisions about finances.