Mom is sick. I am sick.

Old 10-15-2007, 07:51 PM
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Mom is sick. I am sick.

I hate what alcoholism does to people.
It makes their thinking skewed and crattes selfish monsters, who are unable to comminicate without wanting to start a fight.

You know my story. I have been doing pretty good fending off her manipulations.
Well, she's been going through some testing for high BP. They did lots of tests.
She is staying with my couzin Jim and her old sister who is senile and not doing good.

Ok, I call her to find out about the testing tonight. She sounded bad. I asked her what was going on. She kind of explained it to me, and said she was having serious heart surgery on the 26th. I kept asking her what KIND of surgery? was it open heart, she said yes.

Well, I asked more questions and it changed from open heart to unblocking a artery in her neck.
I was more confused than ever and I told her so. Her response to me was, "DON"T TALK TO ME LIKE THAT!"
I told her, "Ok, it's just that I am very confused about what's going on here." Then I hung up.
I let the phone down and cried my heart out.
WHy does she have to make me sound like the bad guy in front of my couzin?
She want's to pick a fight! That's what it's all about. And as all of us know, you can't win a fight with an alcoholic whether they're drinking or not.

I can't handle these one sided conversations. But, I am very worried about her.
I love her and I want her to be ok. I am very upset tonight.

I called later on to speak with my couzin. I told him I was confused about what is going on with her. He was harsh with me. He told me she's going for cartoid artery surgery. I thanked him for clarifying and told him I knew she was upset when I talked to her, but I couldn't figure out what was tgoing on. He sounded like he was angry with me. I did tell him that I have been trying to get her to move down here, but he said bluntly that this is where she wants to live. This is where she's happy.

I said, ok then. I guess that's where she will stay. There's nothing I can do about her living any where else.

It's a mess. It has made me mentally and physically ill these last few days.

I really need a good alanon talking to.
I can't find a sponsor where I am because no one wants to be one!
I need some head cleaning. I am feeling the full force of guilt here.

I realize that guilt is something you feel when you do something wrong, and manipulators try to force guilt on you when you really didn't do anything. I am kept in a continual state of guilt over not doing enough for her when my couzin took her in with out batting an eye.
He's like that though. He also doesn't have to work.

I feel like I am blabbering. But, this has affected me so bad that I went through a panic attack from hell that lasted a day and a half. My chest feels like it's caving in.
Help me someone! I feel like I am drowning in sorrow, guilt, grief and everything bad a person can feel.
Thanks everyone, you have always lifted me up.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:04 PM
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((((Wabbit))))
How about if i just pray and keep good thoughts for you and
your mom.

I don't have any advice or answers. I go through the same
thing with my GF. We can't talk or communicate because
everything comes out all wrong and it leaves me fustrated.

With mom...it a different ball game as far as emotional bonds or attachement.
I wouldn't know how i would feel or do if my mom was like that to
me all the time. I trip out enough as it is and she's pretty nice
95% of the time.

Wrinting about it is good thou. You don't have to keep it all inside
of you.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:45 PM
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Thank you SaTiT! I guess we all have our road to walk in life. I just wish I could hop on a space ship...
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:48 PM
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(((Wabbit)))
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with all this. Re the guilt....she doesn't want to live with you, your cousin offered to take care of her and both those things are _their_ decisions. Once somebody makes a decision it belongs to them. Any behavior after the fact is theirs too. I know it hurts, but you don't have to blame yourself for their choices.

This is the part I can change- how I choose to respond and gradually how I choose to react...becomes how I will feel.

Like SaT said, some people are just not going to be easy to communicate with, because of their anger, issues or just an inability (or refusal) to really listen. It's a two-way thing and if the other half chooses to fight, my choices are limited- but I do have choices.

One thing is to be prepared and have a plan. I have often written out what I might say in situations like this. My comments detached and nonreactive, like; "oh" "I'm sorry you see it that way" or "I'll think about that." Anything to give a reply without being sucked into the fight is good.

I also keep my conversations with difficult people to the absolute minimum-because I have learned from _them_ that the longer I'm in their space, the more likely I will be hurt.

I wanted to take care of my mom and move her to where I live, but she would have none of it. It hurt me alot and also made things very difficult for the whole family because none of us lived near her. I finally found some peace when I realized that she had her reasons and she had every right to make that choice.

Please take care of yourself,
hugs,
cmc
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cmc View Post
I also keep my conversations with difficult people to the absolute minimum-because I have learned from _them_ that the longer I'm in their space, the more likely I will be hurt.
Wow, this is exactly how I feel! Like when I am anywhere near her space, I am about to get clobbered.

Thanks for your insight cmc.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:20 AM
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I had a conversation along that line with my mother yesterday too. Couldn't give me the details only wanted to alarm and manipulate me with them. I'm sure cousin isn't actually mad at you. Probably just the situation. Sounds like cousin is in need of some recovery too. He's taken on way too much. Maybe you can have a talk with him when your mum isn't around about moving her into a assisted living center or something. Really not fair to him or you the situation. Maybe you guys can work together to lighten each others loads.

My grandmother had that surgery. Think they just go in through the big vein in your leg and put a stent in. Might help your mum think a bit clearer. It helped my grandmother cause she wasn't getting enough blood flow to her brain. Any who don't let her guilt you into doing things you know aren't good for you. You can do it!
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:33 AM
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You're not crazy and you're not responsible for what is happening. Just in case that last part didn't sink it (because sometimes I have to say things like this to myself out loud and repeatedly)... You are NOT responsible for what is happening.

Your mom was capable of finding a sucker, er, cousin, to move in with. Your mom was capable of going to doctors to get diagnosed. Your mom was/is capable of having this surgery. Your mom is very unhappy with her life, needs a scapegoat and is trying to blame it all on you....because why?

Because you could take her heart problem away? Um...You're not that powerful
Because you could make her happy? *snort* You're definitely not THAT powerful
Because if she lived with you the whole world would be a sunnier place? uh....

Follow the logic, there isn't any there. So she bad mouths you to the cousin and she plays these little head games with you to make herself feel better about her current situation in life.

In some social communities, the way the community dealt with name calling (which is what you're mom is doing) was to take ownership of the name. Gay men started calling themselves 'fags' and 'queers'. Black people took ownership of the N word. Lesbians took ownership of the word "dyke". They all call themselves that in a positive light, that takes the power out of the word. Perhaps you could do the same

I do this with some people, but not all, one toxic coworker in particular who likes to blame everything that goes wrong on me, even when the error was hers. I look at her and say (flippant tone of voice) "You're right. It's all my fault. Everything that goes wrong here is all my fault. Now that we've assigned blame and I've accepted that your mistake is somehow my fault, shall we fix it, or should we just sit here pointing fingers at each other?" Takes the wind right outta their sails.

I don't know if that approach would work with your cousin/mom or not. It works with some people (it works on my coworker, pisses her off thoroughly, I guess I'm evil because part of me kind of enjoys that), but not all. Some of them simply don't hear anything you say to them because they're so wrapped up trying to twist the logic to meet their own toxic needs.

((Wascal)) You're not the bad guy here.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:36 AM
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Midnight, I see I am not alone in this situation!
Ginger, as always I appreciate your insight and your help.

Today my chest is tight. I can't believe I let her upset me like this. The other side sees that she's getting old and there aren't many more days with her. THAT is the HARD part.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:53 PM
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Wabbit, have you ever read anything by Byron Katie?

She's an author & teacher who went through decades of rage, depression, and self-hatred until she taught herself how to address her mind's stories with laser-sharp inquiry about the real truth of her experiences. In her book "Loving What Is," she talks about how this worked on a night when her daughter, who at the time was abusing drugs and alcohol, failed to come home:

"The thoughts that would appear in my mind were thoughts like these:
"she'll drive, and she'll kill someone, she'll crash into another car or a lamppost and kill herself and her passengers." As the thoughts appeared, each one was met with wordless, thoughtless inquiry. And inquiry instantly brought me back to reality. Here is the only thing that was true; woman, sitting in chair, waiting for her beloved daughter.'

Here's what is true for you:

Woman, worried about her beloved mother's health, is searching for things to say & do that will help them both survive and be happy.

It's that simple, on paper at least. You love your mom, despite her glaring faults, and although you would prefer that she not die right now, you know that's out of your control and it hurts you. You love yourself, and as part of that love you must not have her live with you. Your job is only to get your love to her across, without sacrificing the peace you've finally carved out for yourself. It doesn't matter what kind of surgery, it doesn't matter if the cousin is angry, it doesn't matter even if she's choosing to be manipulative. You can step away from that, decide not to buy into it, and send her love instead.

This is about you. What do you want to be? It sounds like this, to an outsider: You want to be the daughter who is loving and supportive without compromising your peace of mind or being sucked into drama and guilt-tripping. Am I right?

So how would this You act? If you were reading her in a novel, what would she do, and what would she not do?

Find some quiet, and think about what you can do
that will help you be
the person you want to remember yourself as.

Hugs to you, loving strong and self-protecting daughter! You cannot change the path your mom is on. All people die, and you can't control that path. You can only share it for as long as HP allows it. Try to find a way to make it good.

GL
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GiveLove View Post
This is about you. What do you want to be? It sounds like this, to an outsider: You want to be the daughter who is loving and supportive without compromising your peace of mind or being sucked into drama and guilt-tripping. Am I right?
Oh thank you GL for this. I will find that book for sure.
Yes, everything you said is true. I love her but can't take the mind altering guilt trips.
I will do as you say and send her some love. I happen to have a box of greeting cards. I will start with that. I hate it that I just can't bring myself to talk to her right now.
:praying
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:15 PM
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We can only do what we can do, Wabbit.

A card is a wonderful idea right now. I remember being SO angry at my sister right before she went on her last downward spiral. Writing a card to her, telling her that I loved her, and expressing frustration with myself that sometimes I simply don't know the right things to say to make things better (and so often end up saying the wrong things!)........the honesty made ME feel better, and when she got it it made HER feel better.

Note that I wasn't giving in to her manipulation (which was lots)....just stating what was true. Safe, loving, calming.

Big big big hugs to you, and prayers for your mom that this part of her life's journey is as painless as it's possible for it to be, given what she's put herself through with alcohol...

GL
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:31 PM
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Well, I waited a couple of days to cool off before I talked to her again. This time I had it in my mind that I WILL NOT allow anything she says to upset me.
I will be taking off work next Friday to ride with her and my cuz to the hospital where she will have some kind of surgery. Still not 100% sure what's going to happen with the surgery.
Thanks again everyone!
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:31 AM
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Hang in there Wascal. Remember that she is capable of taking care of herself, and you need to take care of you. Thinking good thoughts for you.
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Old 10-21-2007, 02:01 PM
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I can't even believe I found this...there are no words to describe how amazing this forum is. So, here is my situation. I am 22 years old, and my father has been a drug addict for my entire life...probably before that. My parents have been married for about 25 years. Their marriage is terrible. When I was very young, my father was in and out of rehab. But from about middle school through high school, it was the worst. He had no job, so constantly took money from my mom, or stole things from the house and sold them. I learned to sleep through their intense fights..my mom telling him to die, etc. Then I went to college, and it got a little better -- he was clean for a couple years, then relapsed, then anohter year, then relapse, then a few months, relapse, and just recently another relapse -- except this time he disappeared for 3 days. He finally resurfaced, and called my mother telling her he wanted a divorce, and saying terrible things as though she did something terrible. Even though divorce threats were always thrown around, I think this really might be the last straw.

My mother did everything she could to make sure I had a normal life...went to great schools, had great friends. Up until about a year ago, I spent almost all of my energy hiding this from everyone around me...even hid it from my boyfriend for 2 years. I finally realized that while this is too big a part of me, and started telling my friends...let's just say it wasn't that much of a surprise to them.

I've always tried to deal with it, but I'm having more difficulty now that I think the divorce is really going to happen. I actually want them to get a divorce, I think my mother will be a lot happier. and as for him...I am pretty much numb to him right now. I have so much anger inside me that I want to explode. I think my situation is a bit unsual considering that my mother stayed with him for SO long, whereas I think most people would have gotten out of a relationship like that much earlier on. She has been his enabler forever. I haven't tolerated his crap, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Does anyone have any thoughts/comments/anything? I just need some input..whatever you can offer. Thanks a lot.
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:15 PM
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Hi CaliGirl,

There are a lot of people here who know EXACTLY what you're going through (including me!) But unless they click through to this particular thread, they may not ever get a chance to find your message -- you may want to go to the main "table of contents" for the forum and click "New Thread" to start your own...that way your post can get the attention it deserves.

Please don't feel guilty -- what part of this is anything at all your fault??? Your mom and dad are two consenting adults, making their own decisions. You, unfortunately, have been forced to go along for the ride. I know all about the feelings that come up, but try to be logical about it: You could not control what's happened. They say in NarAnon: You didn't CAUSE it, you can't CONTROL it, and you can't CURE it.

The wisest thing my parents could've ever done was divorced. But they didn't. In your case, it seems as though there is finally some light at the end of your mom's tunnel. My first reaction is that a divorce might finally free her from the madness of addictive behaviors (not to mention abuse, theft, etc.) She sounds like she's suffered a great deal, and perhaps (just my personal opinion) hung on too long to this sick relationship. Addiction is a progressive disease...unchecked, it can get worse and worse and worse. Is there anything you can be doing to stand together, support each other during this time? Are you able to identify the impact this relationship between them has had on YOU -- the only person whose life you can truly control -- and maybe work on recovering in your own way from the trauma you've been through personally, through NarAnon meetings, meetings with a counselor, etc.?

I wish I'd done this sooner...it might have made all the difference in the world for me!

Hugs to you, please take care of yourself.

GL
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Old 10-21-2007, 03:31 PM
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thank you GL. I created a new thread. The biggest problem within this whole mess is that my mother is just unresponsive to any kind of support. She has control issues, understandably so, and therefore takes A LOT out on me (trying to control me when she can't control my father, which is all the time). Even worse, she never realizes that. I am an only child, so I don't have siblings to turn to, and even his side of the family has said for years that my mother should've left him. I truly don't understand why she has stayed with him for so long...all I can think of is either because of me, or because she wanted to feel like she was still in control, even though the situation is totally OUT of control.

As many people have said in these posts, the guilt is the worst part. I don't feel like it's my fault that he does this, I really don't. I feel guilty about trying to get out of it..like trying to move out of my house. Or when I go out for the night to escape it. If I'm leaving my mother alone in the house, I feel guilty, and she does a very good job of facilitating that. But I know I shouldn't feel guilty...I just can't help it. In a way, I want to blame her sometimes for staying with him for so long. All of this has snowballed simply because there has been so much time for it to have gotten worse and worse.

This forum is definitely helping though, so thanks.
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